I am wondering how to get more flex out of the backend of my XJ. I was trying to find a conversion kit but no luck, I would like to stay with the leafs in the rear. Right now it sits at about 6" of lift with not a lot of flex in the rear. I have Rusty's budget boost system on there along with 4.5" lift springs. Any help would be nice. And about to finish the longarm conversion in the front.:D
THANKS

the problem is the rustys leafs..i have the 6" and they have no flex....they are too short eye to eye, to you either need to do some fab work and move the shackle forward or get some 56" chevy springs...and do some fab work to make them work. RE springs do pretty well.

My buddy started with the RE springs ..then switched to the Tomkin...Went with a better shackle angle..Finally ..flipped the rear springs around..( just for wheelbase )..I think he is real happy with it now!

..Pretty good balance between front and rear

Front cover of this months Petersons copy shot!

holy huge shackle batman! does the rear wander on the road? 'course judging by the exo, I doubt it sees much road time.

if you really want flex from an XJ rear, I would suggest getting some longer leaves (MJ or 63" chevys) and mounting them inboard on the frame rails.

or you could design and build a 3 link...

Originally posted by BrettM
holy huge shackle batman! does the rear wander on the road? 'course judging by the exo, I doubt it sees much road time.

if you really want flex from an XJ rear, I would suggest getting some longer leaves (MJ or 63" chevys) and mounting them inboard on the frame rails.

or you could design and build a 3 link...

...Hardly sees the street anymore...I can pull down each side of the XJ to its bumpstops:eek: ..This truck is real scary on the street..Turning corners sharp makes youn crap your pants!:eek:

you could always try the Zig Zag.
http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/zig-zag.htm

Originally posted by Warthog
you could always try the Zig Zag.
http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/zig-zag.htm

.You're kidding ?..Right?:confused:

Originally posted by Warthog
you could always try the Zig Zag.
http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/zig-zag.htm :smokin:

Originally posted by AZFJ


.You're kidding ?..Right?:confused:




yeah.....I'm kidding

I forgot to put the :flipoff2: after the link

:flipoff2:

Any experience with the Revolver Shackles for better rear flexing?

http://jeepin.com/features/revolvers/revolver2.jpg



My buddy started with the RE springs ..then switched to the Tomkin...Went with a better shackle angle..Finally ..flipped the rear springs around..( just for wheelbase )..I think he is real happy with it now!
Do have any closeup pics of his rear leafs setup?

Revolvers don't work.

I saw them in action on several Wrangler. It was during the RTI ramp event at a recent wheeling ride. The revolvers would n't move through most of the travel, then when they started to halfway open up the wheel would loose traction and spin.

So what I go from watching this is the revolvers will give you more wheel travel but it won't help becuase the wheel has no traction.

Originally posted by Dazz
Any experience with the Revolver Shackles for better rear flexing?

they're :rainbow: don't work worth a chit.

Originally posted by BrettM
mounting them inboard on the frame rails.


XJ's don't have frame rails...uni-body, remember? :flipoff2:

Originally posted by f0cker



XJ's don't have frame rails...uni-body, remember? :flipoff2:

You mean like this: inboarded on the "uni-body" :flipoff2: it works well but your spring rates are softer, duh!

Matt

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/xjpics/Crossmember/anti_wrap_bar1.JPG

buggy springs = more gooder flex. i can show you a pic of a design to pin em up on the street. revolvers blow... checkout naxja.. there's a thread with some sick shots of an airbag / 1/4 eliptic setup.

THANKS GUYS!! BIG HELP;) AND ALSO WANDERINGWILLYS DO THE SHOCKS EVER HIT THE HOUSING OR THE DRIVE SHAFT WHEN FLEXING OUT THE REAR END OF THAT XJ.

Some pics

pics

new shackle mount

:D

Originally posted by f0cker



XJ's don't have frame rails...uni-body, remember? :flipoff2:

I know, I used to have an XJ and now have an MJ.

Mount them inboard on the "frame rails"

there, is that better, you knew what I meant :flipoff2:

Originally posted by wanderingwillys


it works well but your spring rates are softer, duh!

Matt


it only decreases effective spring rate for articulation (which I think most would see as a good thing) but the spring rate will be the same when both tires are hitting the same bump like most situations on the road. it would also increase body roll. just add another leaf or two in.

Originally posted by AZFJ
Some pics

correct me if I'm wront, but that huge shackle is not offering any effective articulation, it is basically a revolver that doesn't fold. That drooping tire may be drooping a lot, but there is no weight on it, effective articulation comes when the leaf spring is still pushing on the axle.

Originally posted by BrettM


correct me if I'm wront, but that huge shackle is not offering any effective articulation, it is basically a revolver that doesn't fold. That drooping tire may be drooping a lot, but there is no weight on it, effective articulation comes when the leaf spring is still pushing on the axle.

...:confused: Think of it as almost a buggy..1/4 elip set-up...I've seen comp trucks with no rear springs at all...As the other side is forced up..The other side is forced down..The weight of the axle and tire contribute too!...I know its not perfect..But for a basic leaf spring design, it seems to work very well...I've gone along on many trail rides with this guy...The XJ amazes me every time! Were talkng tough as hell Az. trails..It does have a little rear steer..And it is shitty to drive on the street!...He wants to go coil all the way around..But who knows!..Its different..But it works!

Originally posted by BrettM


it only decreases effective spring rate for articulation (which I think most would see as a good thing) but the spring rate will be the same when both tires are hitting the same bump like most situations on the road. it would also increase body roll. just add another leaf or two in.

Yeah but body roll becomes an issue - especially when you have 5100lbs of tank (oops I mean XJ :flipoff2: ) The larger leverage of the distance between the axle end and the spring can make cornering a puckering experiance if your not expecting it.

XJClown - As for the shocks they barely kiss the housing when the rear end hits the bumpstops hard - from the marks on the paint in the shocks :D (just not enough to dent the shock body)

Matt

my friends has revolvers on his cj and its got huge drop, he's also running longer shocks. I think if you can fab something so that the revolvers can fit you'll get lots of drop. get longer shocks to

Originally posted by rckjeep98
my friends has revolvers on his cj and its got huge drop, he's also running longer shocks. I think if you can fab something so that the revolvers can fit you'll get lots of drop. get longer shocks to

YEA revolvers are SO COOL. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by BrettM


correct me if I'm wront, but that huge shackle is not offering any effective articulation, it is basically a revolver that doesn't fold. That drooping tire may be drooping a lot, but there is no weight on it, effective articulation comes when the leaf spring is still pushing on the axle.

i'd have to disagree. as long as the shackle is laid forward like that, when you have wrap(all leaf springs do), the spring gets shorter and it pulls the longer shackle forward, creating a lifting action that puts more force on the tire. the revolver wont allow this action. i've seen the long shackles work before, i used 12" shackles with some 52" gm springs on my old cj. :D

I had revolvers on my xj took them right back off they suck a$$ to much axle wrap and body roll but I still have them if you want to buy them :D

Originally posted by FULLSIZE


i'd have to disagree. as long as the shackle is laid forward like that, when you have wrap(all leaf springs do), the spring gets shorter and it pulls the longer shackle forward, creating a lifting action that puts more force on the tire. the revolver wont allow this action. i've seen the long shackles work before, i used 12" shackles with some 52" gm springs on my old cj. :D

..word to Big Bird!

i put some stock 1/2 ton 63" chevy's under my frame rail with a 10" shackle at about a 25* angle, they give me about 9" of lift and they flex really good. ill try to get some pics of it.

Why is it when someone ask about flex, everyone shows droop? For an XJ with rear lift springs (high arch), the challenge is getting them to stuff. So show some good stuffage. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by JnJ
Why is it when someone ask about flex, everyone shows droop? For an XJ with rear lift springs (high arch), the challenge is getting them to stuff. So show some good stuffage. :flipoff2:

...Anymore it would be rubbing!!!:flipoff2:

I assume he's running a reallllllly long-travel rear drive shaft? (the rear axle has to travel forward as it droops - no?)

Originally posted by AZFJ
Front cover of this months Petersons copy shot!

this is a sweet ride!

Originally posted by 53flattie
I assume he's running a reallllllly long-travel rear drive shaft? (the rear axle has to travel forward as it droops - no?)

..Not really....I think 10 or 12 inches of slip..maybe less...

thank god my jeep has a frame and not uni-body.:rolleyes: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by JnJ
Why is it when someone ask about flex, everyone shows droop? For an XJ with rear lift springs (high arch), the challenge is getting them to stuff. So show some good stuffage. :flipoff2:

because droop is usable and stuff sucks. to get a good amount of stuff, the COG has to be high to gain enough clearance unless you have no body(ie buggy).;)

Or switch to a four link rear with coils. :D

http://www.jeepbarracks.com/albums/album08/aev.sized.jpg

http://www.jeepbarracks.com/albums/album08/aey.sized.jpg

Originally posted by Dazz
Or switch to a four link rear with coils. :D

http://www.jeepbarracks.com/albums/album08/aev.sized.jpg

http://www.jeepbarracks.com/albums/album08/aey.sized.jpg

DUDE... ok its cool and all to flex on a fork lift but indoors?

Think about it, if the front started to unload the cherokee could quickly have rolled inside that garge, landing on those jack stands, then slide into that work bench.... :eek:


FLEX:
The cherokee has the ability to have alot of up travel with the factory body-frame design. Look at a stock cherokee they are SO LOW to the ground, any lift adds LOADS of up travel if you trim.

A toyota with a SAS will always be limited in the front to have little up travel, becuase the IFS frame comes down so low to the front axle.

With leafs on my front 31.5in center to center, I will have more flex up front so the rear I will probibly move under the frame rails too. Ill have to decide on the flex to stability trade off...

OK how this for rear stuff :flipoff2: Ramp and all - its hardcore :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/xjpics/ramp3.jpg

And the other side:

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/xjpics/ramp11.jpg

Originally posted by Warthog





yeah.....I'm kidding

I forgot to put the :flipoff2: after the link

:flipoff2:

Anyone actually have any experience with the Zig Zag? Have any opinions? Does it work well or not? Any details greatly welcome.

Originally posted by puck


Anyone actually have any experience with the Zig Zag? Have any opinions? Does it work well or not? Any details greatly welcome.


..I think they are used for rolling joints:flipoff2: ..Anything other uses I would stay away from!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by AZFJ



..I think they are used for rolling joints:flipoff2: ..Anything other uses I would stay away from!:flipoff2:

What type of leaf spring articulation improvement would you recommend? I am already doing a shackle reversal in the front, not that this greatly improves articulation, but it will improve the ride at least.

Anyone else have any ideas??

Originally posted by BrettM
holy huge shackle batman! does the rear wander on the road? 'course judging by the exo, I doubt it sees much road time.

if you really want flex from an XJ rear, I would suggest getting some longer leaves (MJ or 63" chevys) and mounting them inboard on the frame rails.

or you could design and build a 3 link...

long shackle -

not as bad as you might think, I run a really long one in thefront of my rig (YJ, 97.5" WB) and don't have any road driving issues, actually it rides better now SOA R/S than it was 3.5" SUA lift and shack forward.

unless of course, having longer shackles in the back makes it drive really differently. :confused:

Originally posted by wanderingwillys
OK how this for rear stuff :flipoff2: Ramp and all - its hardcore :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



ok.. since you live out that way... have you stopped by the sultan truck scale?

Wondering if you need a CDL A to be driving that thing!! :eek:

:flipoff2:

(really, what does it weigh in at?)

Originally posted by puck


What type of leaf spring articulation improvement would you recommend? I am already doing a shackle reversal in the front, not that this greatly improves articulation, but it will improve the ride at least.

Anyone else have any ideas??

Leaf flex improvement?

Going with longer leafs is probably the single biggest improvement you can make.
If you're keeping a stock leaf pack, open up any clamps, or remove all but one set of clamps on each pack.
You can add some anti-friction material between your leafs, but most packs already have this.
Remove any overload leafs (removing my MJ's OL leaf opened up a ton of flex), though this could shorten spring life (as does most any improvement in flex), remove any short add a leafs (If you HAVE to have one, use a long AAL, or use multiple leafs from an OEM pack with more arch than your pack).
Going with a longer shackle also help (esp if your stock one is binding out in the shackle box).


More drastically, you could inboard mount your leafs, for some loss of stability, but an improvement in flex.
Also, going with a wider leaf (2.5", instead of a 2", or 3" instead of a 2.5") will increase load capacity, so you can run a softer spring (more flexable), without losing load capacity.

If you really looking for 'tricks', adding a flexable johnny type joint to one of your bushings (like the Toyota guys are running now) will take alot of the twisting stress off of your leafs, and most likely let them flex more.
This is the only benefit I can see to those Revolvers, they twist, keeping the leafs from having to bend as much as they travel. Other than that, I don't like them.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


ok.. since you live out that way... have you stopped by the sultan truck scale?

Wondering if you need a CDL A to be driving that thing!! :eek:

:flipoff2:

(really, what does it weigh in at?)

Yeah - I stop at the scale all the time; and have watched it grow from 4500lbs to just over 5100lbs - the split is 40 - 80lbs heavier over the front axle than the rear depending on gas and misc trail stuff... Not quite fullsize weight yet but about 800-1000 lbs heavier than I would like it!

All these weights are loaded up with the standard stuff I take on the trail...

A buddy of mine is trying to get me to buy one of his 5 ton M-series cargo trucks - only weighs 8 tons unloaded - I think I am going to stick with a duece (5 to 6 tons depending on the bed and tires) - plus this guy regularly carries ~12 tons of cargo with his dueces and just brought home a 24 ton bulldozer with his 5 ton - yikes :eek:

At least my jeep has 3/4 ton discs up front, 11" drums in the back and a double vacuum booster so even with 38's it stops pretty well ;)

Matt

Heres a pic of the rear hanger set up..He is replacing the OX locker again...OX lockers broken-2..ring and pinions broken and chewed up after OX let go-2..Wimpy Dana 35 axleshafts that should have broke first-0..WTF?:confused: ...Price OX charged each time it broke-$0..Even paid for new ring and pinions....NICE!

Isn't it possible to go for a 3/4 elliptical suspension for the XJ?

Originally posted by jeepinislife
Isn't it possible to go for a 3/4 elliptical suspension for the XJ?

I posted a shot of my 3/4 elip setup earlier in this thread - OD green exo XJ... Look at the rear shackle.... :rolleyes:

Edit:

AZFJ - ever think perhaps the housing is bent!? - the axles are probably not being broken because they can have a fair amount of missalignment where was the OX locker gets loaded up like hell when locked and not in alignment - whats breaking? the side gears and then the bits get sucked into the R&P causing it to go :nuke: ?

Just a though but I be if you check the housing it will be smiled - a buddies D44 kept killing fullfloat hubs in the rear because the house was bent...

Matt

[i]

AZFJ - ever think perhaps the housing is bent!? - the axles are probably not being broken because they can have a fair amount of missalignment where was the OX locker gets loaded up like hell when locked and not in alignment - whats breaking? the side gears and then the bits get sucked into the R&P causing it to go :nuke: ?

[/B]

..I think they have figured out why the OX has been breaking..Some pin has been walking out..I think maybe a design flaw..The housing has been replaced.. they trussed like crazy...But you never know...

Putting that much heat into the housing when welding on that truss could also have warped it - (unlikely but worth checking) Na bust out the slip fit loctite stuff - used to seat and lock slip fit motor shafts in their respective sprocket or bore... Or is there a little roll pin the is breaking letting the cross shaft back out...

Matt

..i'm no too sure on whats fawkin up in there!!..i didnt get to look at it..And my buddy who owns the XJ is not to technical:D

Would these longer shackles work just as well on the front of a YJ or should this trick be safer if used only on the rear? I'm guess there might be some steering flex, body roll etc. Feedback? :rolleyes: