I'm just looking for some good web sites on the diesel Cruisers to gather some good info before my trip to Canada next year. Gonna try to get together some cruiser heads to make a trek through Canada to bring back all the Cruiser stuff we never got here in the US.


Mitch

Try:
dtlc@helios.net
That's the diesel LC E-mail address, it's a TLCA thing like the main LC line.
What you might be looking for is for instance a rusted out BJ or HJ60 wagon with a 4 (3.43L) or 6 cyl (3.98L) diesel and an H55F 5spd, along with a split transfer case. There's one for sale in Ontario for $1750, C$ I think.
Charlie
84 BJ60, 79 BJ40, both with turbos, suspensions, winches, lockers, etc; '67 FJ45LV wagon with Cummins 6AT3.4, NV4500, AA Rock Box, MAF cast iron case, 5.29s, rear FF/Soflocker, front ARB, 4" lift, 9.00R16 XZLs (in gestation)

All things considered, Canada wasn't as blessed as people think, in terms of Land Cruisers. Yes, they got diesel ones (1978-1980 BJ40's, 1981-1984 BJ42's, 1981-1985 BJ60's, 1985-1987 BJ70's and 1985-1987 HJ60's), but many were imported in small numbers, and many have suffered from the tough winter conditions. They also got petrol Cruisers until 1990, but in relatively small numbers when compared to the US, and again, they're much tougher to find in good shape than they are here. As far as H55F 5-speed transmissions, you can get those in the US brand-new from Toyota for ~$1,800, so why mess with a tired, questionable one?

I still think people are better off converting a US-spec Cruiser into diesel and adding a few goodies here and there than buying a Canadian Land Cruiser that may be seriously rusted out and are almost always overpriced. Besides, most of my Canadian Cruiserhead buddies are extremely protective of their dwindling pool of Cruisers! :)

Where is the best source for 3B engines? Is it Specter? Canada?

Is that the best engine to swap into a Cruiser?

I know all the specs and I think the newer Diesels are way too expensive.

What is the best, most affordable route to go?

Nolen writes:

'is... 3B....best'
(not razing NG, but this question just always comes up)

guf.

A stock 3B is a gutless wonder. In a soft top/no top 40 barely worth it. A turbo is really needed. NO WAY NO HOW does anyone get a consistant 30+ mpg in a 40 or 60 or 70 series unless it is at 25 mph across Kansas w/ no wind. Best source for one, a rusted hulk of a BJ60 series (for 12v issue). Otherwise, rebuilds can be had for under $3,000 US (I know of one 3B and three 3BII's available in January). There are plenty of 3B input shafts around so mating a tranny is not a big deal. Specter + 3B should never enter ones mind.

Don't even get me started on B/2B's. dud dud dud.

13B-T's are dreams. And parts are nightmares (hello Marv!). A new head + AU turbo = better 3B than 13B-T

2H are more expensive to overhaul and specs are too similar to the 2F to warrant conversions. (and a 12H-T ha!) Later HZ series are good (and well parts supported) but not cheap and mandate a steering conversion in a 40 series from stock. Same power as 2F. Turbos make the cut.

really, the best engine diesel for a cruiser?
4X/7X series (shorties)
Isuzu NPR (little cab forward trucks) -mates to chevy bellhousings etc.
--parts everywhere, right profile, and fits a chevy tranny! HC chime in for most popular diesel in VE.

6X/8X series
turbo late model 1HD-T/1HD-FT/1HD-FTE. If not, maybe an isuzu engine. Cummings/Freightliner etc are too large.

Fork lift engines are wrong construction

the 3B while a little bomb proof engine-- needs work. And a diesel engine is not a block to Americans. It must have EDIC, Alternator-vacuum pump, injection pump, starter (head), bellhousing, flywheel,....and 99% of sheet metal.
...and adding a/c to a 3B w/o is a nightmare

Great information. I really see that you know what you are talking about.

All this information is what I had gleaned over time.

3B is a dog, yes, but the coolness factor is really high.

I am in the planning stages for a new project truck and I was kicking around a Diesel for the project.

The isuzu is one that I had not hought about, thanks!

I may just say screw it and go with a SBC.

THanks!

Rick, and other diesel guru's:

Are the Izuzu diesels 4 or 6 cyl?
I have seen the trucks all over, and always wondered what they were.

Are they turbo'ed? I'd really like a turbo!!!


Where can I find more information?
I tried looking at the izuzu webpage but it had little tiny industrial diesels and huge(MUCH too large) diesels for larger trucks...
I really want to put one in a FJ55(steering box is not an issue, as it's going to get a Scout P/S box-like Morgans setup.)

Finally, does anyone know what trannies(ie NV4500??) can bolt up???

Thanks for the time!

My '79 BJ40 does great with it's little 1B. Of course it has a turbo (100 hp/190 ft-lb), has an H41 and 4.88s with 32" tires and an overdrive. So it goes like sh*t in 2,3, and 4 direct, up to 65 mph.
Drive a Landcruiser with a diesel offroad and you'll never go back to a gas motor - 2F or V8. Onroad, gearing is CRITICAL. Best gearbox for a 3B or 2F is definitely H55F, geared for 22-2400 rpm at 60 mph in 5th.
Isuzu diesels come in both 4 and 6 cyl: 4BD1/4BD1T/4BG1/4BG1T/6****......etc.
Charlie

More Izuzu Questions...

Which would be the most suitable for a FJ55? The 4 cyl are about 3.4 L correct? How big are the 6cyl?Length being the biggest concern...

thanks!

The Isuzu swap has become a favorite in Venezuela, especially in the 60 and 75 series, but also in a handful of earlier 80 series. The preferred engine is the 4-cylinder 4BD1-T, it's got the right dimensions, decent HP and torque specs and best of all, has a GM-pattern bellhousing that would open up a slew of different tranny options. Like Charlie mentionts, gearing is critical with a diesel engine, you want to stay within the effective powerband, remember that diesel engines in general reach their top HP and TQ ratings at lower RPM's than petrol engines.

Personally, I don't think the 3B is a good candidate for an engine swap *unless* you come across a cheap one (and I do mean, cheap). Yes, it's a bombproof industrial design, but it's also a dog, it's underpowered for a hard-core wheeling application unless you run an aftermarket turbo with it, and even then, for a serious wheeling truck that won't see a lot of highway miles but will most likely be trailered to the trails, you're better off (economically and technically) running a petrol engine, and in the US at least, *nothing gets better than a SBC*.

I really like Toyota diesel engines, in particular the LASER 6-cylinder series (1HZ, 1HD-T, 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE), but the sheer cost of the powerplant and ancillaries makes it a practical conversion only if you plan to drive a LOT of miles on your Cruiser. For example, my friend Jeff put a 1HD-T in his US-spec FJ60, mated to an H55F and combined with a FF rear axle. He's put a ton of miles on his truck, driving from NorCAL to Tucson, AZ several times a year and back. In his case, the cost of the conversion (close to $10K, with him doing all the work) can be amortized by the fuel savings, but if you don't put a lot of miles every year, that kind of money can buy a LOT of gasoline.

The Isuzu 4BD1-T is an excellent turbo diesel engine, commonly found in the US on Isuzu NPR cab-over medium cargo trucks and their GM counterparts. Plenty of engines floating around, and they've been retrofitted onto several different models of Land Cruisers, so we know it fits!

If you're going to use an Isuzu 4BD1T, ideally use either a Ranger overdrive with SM465 or 420, or a NV4500. The more gears the better. And if you have a 0.73 top gear, consider that 4.11 X 0.73 = 3.00. With 33" tires that's only 1890 rom at 60, 2200 at 70, 2350 at 75. Consider 4.56s or 4.88s for 33"-36" tires. If the 4BD1T is a 2600 rpm motor, gear for 2400 at 75. If the 4BD1 nat. asp. is a 2800 rpm motor, gear for 25-2600 at 75 (which is about as fast as you want to go in a 40 or 60). Don't gear for 1700 at 60 or 2000 at 70-75 unless you have a Cummins 3.9BTA souped up to 440 ft-lb. What makes my BJ40 a pleasure to drive with the lowly 2.98L B diesel is the 4.88 gearing; the overdrive enables 125-130 kph top speed.
Charlie

Thanx for all the info guys but I got some more questions.

I think I have decided to go ahead and try diesel and I want to use the 3B and add a turbo. How much do you think the conversion would cost into, oh say, a 73' FJ-40. What would be involved in it, driveshaft mods? Axle Mods? Clearance issues? How do you register such a vehicle in America? Thanx!


Mitch

Register in Western NC a '69? No sweat, as a conversion.
It will cost whatever a 3B costs, plus about US$1500 for an AXT turbo (water cooled Garrett turbo from Australia, an excellent kit), plus whatever for a H55F (they are $1800 new from Toyota), plus whatever for either a split transfer case OR if you have room (if you mount the 3B more forwards than stock) a NP203 box with H55F adapter in front and 10 spline transfer case adapter in back (possible by mixing adapters). That will get you about 80:1 low 1st.
Or, if you get the split TC, you can get gears from either Rockhopper in Australia (1.00/3.14) or Marks' Adapters (either 0.92/2.81 or 1.08/3.05). The over/underdrive could be useful if you want to adjust gearing. 4.11s with the H55F is perfect for about 31-32" tires. The 1.08 underdrive will be just right for 33-35". The 0.92 OD only for stock 28s, who'd want them?
The 3B with AXT turbo puts out 132 hp and 220 ft-lb - enough for a FJ40 and then some.
The price on transfer case gearsets is slowly dropping.
Charlie

I've heard excellent things about the AXT turbo, several friends have installed them on their 3B's with excellent results, and the price is unbeatable.

Hey Charles,

Wouldnt you think the overdrive on the NV4500 with a diesel NPR would be just about perfect for highway cruising at 1890rpms? Where do those diesels make the peak torque? My 292 makes peak at 1600rpms and i was thinking the diesels must surely hit peak torque around its 1800rpm point? And why wouldnt you want the lowest torque rpm and peak torque point for that overdrive/highway gear?. I would assume pulling a steep highway hill might be a stretch depending on vehicle weight but certainly for cruising a flat it wouldnt really matter much if you in the meat of your torque band/

Ive been thinking NPR and NV4500 for my FJ55 for a while but just cant find anyone who has done it or who can do it. Im in Northern Ca. and dont think anyones too close. There is a guy in Mesa Arizona apparently who specializes in conversions of diesels but his name skips me.....its on the diesel board i think.

I also read on the diesel board that the cummins 6at has been thrown in a few Scouts and similarly sized vehicles with some success and i think the 6at weighs around 845lbs which is certainly more acceptable than the Cummins ISB which is tipping the scales over 1000lbs and would turn a cruiser into a pile of squeeking metal quite fast.

Ive also been eyeballing the GM 4.2 liter DOHC Aluminum INLINE 6 coming in 2002. It gets around 24mpgs hwy and 17 city in a 4600lb gm grocery grabber and the engineers at GM pulled the engine off the dyno at 300,000 miles because they needed to dyno time for other vehicles and the Inline 6 was just humming along. With that kind of mileage and durability- there probably wont be a need to go diesel........and it weighs less than half what any diesel or F engine weighs! Oh it also puts out 270hp and 270ft lbs of torque and the latest Baja Version thats in 5 liter form is putting out 600hp and 475lbs of torque..........sounds like a V-8 killer to me...........

...but with an AXT ideally you should replace with the Geoff Walsh head as well (another chunk o change).

http://www.gwengineparts.com.au/

With a 3B, you must also consider the electrics or be aware of at least how you can retrofit. Also, fuel delivery and filtration (water etc). No mortal can tackle an injection pump in his/her garage and that is the heart, brain, and 'head' of a diesel. And consider parts. Although you can get them, if you end up in Great Falls, Montana, or Buttscratch, Arkansas what engine can you find an injector for more easily? While noble to pursue a Toyota engine, these must be considerations (or, like Icky, carry full spares in 4+ cubic feet of your cargo space). If your injection pump is down, and you don't have a large cash store to get the part in ASAP, you are grounded-bigtime.

I wouldn't worry about being in nowhere with a Toyota diesel vs. any other diesel unless an actuall engine part like a piston or valve is needed. As far as injectors, Nippondenso (ND) parts are common and interchangeable.
The 6AT3.4 (the one I'm putting in the '67 FJ45 wagon) is the same length, height and weight as a 2F - about 625 lb.
But a Cummins 4 cyl, as opposed to 6 cyl B engine weighs only about 750 lb and fits OK into a Landcruiser. You will find an Isuzu 4BD/4BG, a Perkins 4.236 or Phaser 1004, etc., all about 4L, all weigh about 750 lb. If I were putting a Cummins 4BTA into a 60 series and were ordering an OME suspension, I would get the HD front and an extra leaf just in case.
Living in Novato, isn't Mr. Kardum interested in a FJ55 diesel swap? Mark Whatley is ready and willing to do a 6AT3.4/FJ45LV/NV4500/AA Rock Box swap for me.
Lastly, torque: The B series motors develop peak torque at 2200 rpm. Cruising speed in top gear should always be a bit ABOVE peak torque, thus as load increases with a grade or acceleration in general torque will be available. With a motor without a tremendous excess of power one should lean towards higher rpms. For example a 3B in a 60 might be set up to turn 23-2400 at 60 mph. A 2H might turn 2250 at 60. Both 3B and 2H are 35-3600 rpm top speed. A Cummins 6AT3.4 is also a 3600 rpm motor. My 45 will have 5.29s, 36" tires and 0.73 5th gear; 2200 rpm at 60. 125 hp @ 3600, 235 ft-lb @ 2000.
OTOH, a Cummins ISB 16 valve 4BTAi is rated at 170 hp @ 2500 and 420 ft-lb @ 1700. This motor might be geared at 1750 rpm @ 60 mph in a 60.
The bsfc (brake specific fuel consumption, fuel consumption in terms of lbs per hp-hr) is lowest at peak torque and highest at governed rpm. But gearing too slow makes a rig a dog. Engineering is full of compromises. Never use less than a 5 spd or a 4spd with a Ranger with a diesel.
Charlie

Last time i spoke to Mudrak on the subject of diesel he musta had 30 cruisers littering his property with weeks til Rubithon. It kinda looked like an offroad Toyota Dealership. ;) I think that guy can weld and catch sleep if you know what i mean.:smokin:
Anyway i may try and catch him at a more ear-portunistic time when lets say.....theres only 15 cruisers scattered about. :D Either that or ill send truckloads of beer: :beer: :beer:.

Also Charles what about a Hino diesel? I noticed that Hino makes the Toyota diesels and apparently the canadian hinos have quite a few interchangable parts with h's and 2hs. Are there any Hinos that fit the bill or snout of a pig?

Wouldnt you have to consider HP area under the curve as it relates to Torque when figuring out how it will perform under load in overdrive? It was my understanding that under load (hills or acceleration) over and above the force of the torque- its hp or breathing that allows usability of the torque. Wouldnt you want 270hp/270torque versus 140hp/400torque given an overdrive situation at 60mph in a 4500lb vehicle as far as driveability, fuel economy, etc. (all gearing etc equal).?

When you turbocharge a 3B, do you let a turbo specialist do the installation/(dyno it if necessaily?) and could anyone explain how the fuel aneroid works?

What's the idling R.P.M. for the 3B?

Thought this might be of interest.

I shipped this 1997 80 series 1-HZ diesel with 5 speed to a guy in the US and its going into a 40series.

http://home.access1.com.au/~ozrunner/Diesel3.html

When I put a turbo on:
1) I put a pyrometer on the old manifold a few weeks early and get a baseline
2) Install the turbo kit
3) Turn the max fuel screw or DAC up about 1/2 turn
4) Adjust so that max EGT does not exceed 1250-1275 F.

As far as 270/270 vs 140/400;
The 270/270 engine will be a 6000 rpm motor and will have to be geared to use the higher rpms. A perfect BMW motor. The 140/400 motor will have a peak rpm of about 1500. Why don't you try 200/400 or 150/300? these motors will have peak rpms of 2800 and require a 5 or 6 spd and should be geared to run 2800 at about 80 (the 150/300 in a 60) to 85-90 (the 200/400 in a 60). Peak hp tells you just that: peak hp at peak rpm. Torque curves allow you to calculate hp at a given rpm with the following formula: hp = torque * (rpm/1000) * 0.19
torque = hp*5.25/(rpm/1000)
Charlie

Charlie-

Isn't 1,250 F a little hot for exhaust gases? I thought 1,000 was about max for any length of time. Fuel consumption must be pretty high?

...and to all.
The 1HD-T and 1HZ are two of the quietest best balanced engines I have seen, heard, and driven in a cruiser. A friend in Tucson converted several trucks to Perkins over the years and the entire assembly had to be locktited into place. My Ford 250 (thankfully out of my life) was annoyingly loud. When I bought my 1HD-T in LA, we started in on a wooden crate sans exhaust in the sellers back yard and at idle we could softly talk over the noise. Only when the turbo kicked in did you hear the 'Mad Max' blower like feature.

...uuhhh. And if Jeff B only knew how I test drove his truck while he was at Marv's....


that being said, I have never pushed a 1FZ 80 series on a test track. I know what Henry will say, "F#@%K diesel".

I put pyrometer senders in the manifold, not the pipe out from the turbo. The difference is 2-300 F. at load.
Charlie

I know what Henry will say, "F#@%K diesel".

You bet! After driving a brand-new, 2002 FZJ71 Land Cruiser with a fuel-injected, fully-smogged and powerpacked (no distributor, three coils, 15 extra HP) 1FZ-FE, in a truck that is about 2,500 lbs lighter than mine, I have to confess that diesel, especially a 3B, isn't as attractive to me as it once was.

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
I know what Henry will say, "F#@%K diesel".

You bet! After driving a brand-new, 2002 FZJ71 Land Cruiser with a fuel-injected, fully-smogged and powerpacked (no distributor, three coils, 15 extra HP) 1FZ-FE, in a truck that is about 2,500 lbs lighter than mine, I have to confess that diesel, especially a 3B, isn't as attractive to me as it once was.

Was this on your last trip to Venezuela? Did you shoot some pictures for TT?

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
I have to confess that diesel, especially a 3B, isn't as attractive to me as it once was. [/B]

Come on over here and jump in a turbo intercooled over injected 1HZ with a serious loose nut behind the wheel.

And hello.

Or try my '79 BJ40, with its' tiny 2.98 L motor, but with a turbo and 4.88s and 32.2" tires (265/80R16 Swampers). It has an overdrive. In 2,3 and 4 it is very quick. Faster than a 2F Cruiser, I think. 4th goes up to 65, 4th-OD up to about 80.
Charlie

I have heard good things about a diesel conversion, USING THE 300 d MOTOR. Does anyone know how much torque and horse power the 300 D motors turn out. Also how power does the Isuzu motors put out?

Dead almost a year! Digging deep? 300D mercedes? 4x4labs might have your answer there. As for the Isuzu, they can be had in 175HP turbo versions, engines are the 4bgit variety and newer are the 4bg2t I am told. Good luck finding a cheap one...

At least it shows someone knows how to use the search :D

Originally posted by wngrog

I am in the planning stages for a new project truck and I was kicking around a Diesel for the project.


my new BJ45, will have a turbo 3B, portals, awesome gearing, and lots of hydro

:D

if i was over there id try for a cummins, or a 6.5T chev!! :D

dog dog dog....
hahahha. whatever. :rolleyes:

this is funny. keep it up, change the dudes mind so he doesn't come up here and buy up all our crappy diesels.

I'll keep my 3b thanks.

As for the Isuzu Good luck finding a cheap one... [/B][/QUOTE]


You are not going to believe this one:D :D
I just picked up an 86 Isuzu NPR truck
(just cab and chassis,no bed or box)
with a good 4bd1t (Needs power steering pump seals)The engine is an '89 according to the sticker on the v-cover.

I traded an old Koenig 8000 PTO winch and Dana 18 PTO box for it.
I almost feel guilty when I think of what I paid for the winch at a garage sale a few years ago:cool:

Now the dilemma.............
The truck runs and drives fine as is.
Should I pull the engine and put it in one of my cruisers?
or.....
Take the engine And 5spd od tranny and put it in my M-715?(It's got a divorce mounted dana 200)
or.....
Build a flatbed for it and sell it to help pay off the credit card debt?
(That would be way too smart.I can't do that:D )

What do you think?????

M715 for sure! But you may still want to regear the axles, as the 5.89's will be rough for road driving...

-Brett

The guy that I got the Isuzu from said the axle in the npr was a 5.38 ratio.
I've never been around these axles,so I would have to confirm myself, but he said with that ratio, the npr did fine on the freeway(60 to 75 mph)
So it might be ok.I'm not a speed demon anyway.
Bill