Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week


XJs are valid wheelers. Yeah, they don't have a real frame, but so what? If you wanna bash your junk, bash it.

So, what, where, why, how do you add beef to the non-frame on your XJ?

The first problem area(of many :rolleyes: ) is the "frame" area at the steering box. It is not properly built to withstand big tires and the abuse that rock crawling delivers. The steering box is mounted with a cast aluminum(?!?) spacer between it and the "frame" which tends to crumble in to pieces. Also the steering box mounting bolt holes are not properly sleeved so the "frame" tends to crush in that area.
A couple manufacturers have come out with products to strengthen this area. C-Rok has a bolt on kit but I went with the ORGS SBS weld on system.
Here's what I got from ORGS...
http://www.fototime.com/{40C600CA-152A-49F1-81C5-F7778CD821DA}/picture.JPG
...ya I could have made all that stuff but I rather go wheeling.
Lots of grinding and welding required...
http://www.fototime.com/{F6C60BBC-7F65-4C22-980E-48500A65FC00}/picture.JPG
Once done...
http://www.fototime.com/{BB4BE35F-58F5-4716-84AF-CE18C5B99E98}/picture.JPG
...I shouldn't have to worry about this area anymore. As a side benifit, when I turn the steering wheel the thing actually turns instead of taking up the flex, then turning.
Problem area #1 addressed, 9 more areas to go.
;)

Jes

Little plating we did for the spring hangers. Gonna do more later.

how much does a stock 4.0 XJ weigh? asking because adding an all new sub frame making them a boat anchor? personaly i like my jeep with a real frame:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Chrisjeep7
how much does a stock 4.0 XJ weigh? asking because adding an all new sub frame making them a boat anchor? personaly i like my jeep with a real frame:flipoff2:
You call a TJ a real jeep?!!! :flipoff2:

What are the downsides to welding on the unibody? It is only 11 ga sheet metal, sometimes doubled up, but still sheet metal. Wouldn't bolt on be a better choice?

Wouldn't bolt on be a better choice?

Ummm, NO. Bolt on allows for slip and slid and holes to get wallowed out. If you can't figure out how to weld thin sheet to thick sheet, then I guess you better get your credit card out.

I guess you can't have discussion about the merits of a unibody without some dumbass comment about real frames:flipoff2:

CJ, YJ, and TJ frames all need beefed up once you start throwing big parts, tires, etc. on them or have you never seen the frame rip in half at the spring hanger?

I cut the top off some rectangular tubing and slipped it over my "frame" and stitch and plug welded it to it. I also did the cut out rocker mod ala Billa's old tech site. I think this improved my stiffness drastically. I never got the door cracks or any of that even after I fully crushed in the entire back of the top.

That being said, I still highly recommend a 6,8, or 10 point cage to help stiffen it even farther and add just a touch more to the safety factor.

Easy

I think it should be said to any XJer who plans to wheel their rigs relatively hard that it is only a matter of time before the unibody starts to give unless preventative measures are taken before hand.

In my opinion if a XJ is only going to be used for medium to light wheeling (i.e. 32" tires and lower without lockers) reinforecments don't have to come in the form of complex cages. Simple things like an aftermarket rear and front bumper will help to stiffen those respective sections quite a bit.

For hard wheeling the best method to stiffen the unibody is a cage. For those who don't have access to a tube bender or don't want to pony up the $$$ for a good cage there are simple things that can be done instead although they aren't as effective.

A couple pics of my sleeved framerail. 4x6 .250 wall cut in half and bolted to the unibody (using sleeves of course) It was then welded on every 6-8" or so. (Pic was before welding)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/64838123/74900835YtWaum
http://community.webshots.com/photo/64838123/74900975hPaYSb

In the rear I added a shock hoop, a rear frame support that runs across the very rearward portiion of the frame rails, and I welded some flat bar to the underside of the frame rails.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/64838123/70343299gzTmKe

For the front my which mounting plate reinforces the front area.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/71480495/71480775YfMtkd

Now I'd love to make a cage but I can't afford the time or equipment at this time. I'm not a fan of buying pre fabbed stuff so these last couple mods have been my temporary solutions to help stiffen things up.


I think it should also be said that steering box braces have been known to rip the steering box off on XJ's. I'm not sure if this would occur whith a properly reinforced front section but the theory of this on a stock rig is frame flex. The stock setup has quite a bit of frontal flex when wheeling and the steering box brace helps to rip the box off the frame rail when the front flexes. It would probably be a better solution to beef up the stock mounting location with the ideas listed in the posts above.

If you plan on running larger axles reinforcements have to be made to beef up the spring hangers etc to handle the extra weight.

As for weight... sure all this stuff is heavy but the base model XJ holds WAY more gear than any TJ and is virtually the same weight. A beefed up XJ is probably around the same weight as a built scrambler so it is all relative.

We have found that installing a good 6-8 point cage will stiffin the chassis a great deal along with adding a lot of safety. You can add some additional rigidity by tieing the cage to some sort of subframe connector.
The steering box frame section is the other weak link. A couple companies make steering box braces for after youve beefed up the frame.

Good thread!

I haven't 'beefed' anything. I do keep a sharp eye on the steering box area and the control arm areas and have supplemented the factory welds as needed. I've been wheeling it on Utah trails for about 4 years (33" SSR-and 35" MT/R for 2.5 of those) with no unibody failures to date. I might be 'lucky' though. I've only flopped twice and it was both on the same side. Soft flops without much impact damage.

My opinion is that the XJ is like racing a Camaro or Nova. There is a life span for the chassis, just like any other part. When it's 'done' you just get another rig and unbolt what you can from the old chassis and put it on the new one.

I've seriously thought about a cage, more for safety of the passengers and myself than to stiffen up the chassis. However, the cage will obviously stiffen things up and my concern there is transfering stress to a part of the unibody not really designed to take stress. I need a new motor and wouldn't mind a new chassis so I'll follow this thread for suggestions in case I invest in another XJ.

To stiffen up the front a bit...I cut out the core support and replaced it with a angle iron. This is probably something you might want to do if you plan on running leaf springs.



This is an old pic but you get the idea.


http://www.no-bling.com/panda_image_gallery/galleries/goat_1/New%20Core%20Support.jpg

I was thinking of doing the same thing Goat did but building a tube bumper with a cradle that is intergraded into it to stiffen the same area. I would like to stick a winch down there. You could also include the steering plates into it as well.

The frame rails usually need to be beefed up to prevent them from collapsing under hard hits. Easy has done this I believe.

my brother's running 37's on his XJ; ripped the steering box off (b/c of the strength of the brace, but the brace did hold the box on to get to a spot to start some welding). Regardless, we braced up the box area well...

...question on the rest of the "frame" area; time to start some reinforcing, of course more weight is a concern so if I have to add the weight I'd like to get as many uses out of it as possible strength/saftey, aka: cage.

is a cage going to stiffen up the unibody as much as stiffeners attached to the "frame" rails? or in your experience at least stiffen it up enough?

if so, how are you attaching it to the floor in the cab, welding it to the floorboard via a plate? I'd assume no one is penetrating through the floor board to something under neath right? :D

I believe a cage and frame stiffeners used together will provide the best results. My cage is attached to plates, bolted through the floor, and welded to the subframe. The seat mounts are tied directly to the cage, welded to the floor, and are integrated into the stock seatbelt floor mounts. The cage, frame, and floor are all tied together. Sorry about the bad photo quality.

http://home.att.net/~j.kaczmarski/wsb/media/123450/site1045.JPG

http://home.att.net/~j.kaczmarski/wsb/media/123450/site1046.JPG

http://home.att.net/~j.kaczmarski/wsb/media/123450/site1047.JPG

http://home.att.net/~j.kaczmarski/wsb/media/123450/site1048.JPG

-Jon

Reading this thread has made me realize that my increasingly poor steering on my ZJ is probably from my front uniframe flex. This is probably why my hood is fitting worse and worse, and why my ARB doesn't fit quite like they used to. :) I am glad the the fitment problems presented by the V8 in my ZJ have thus far prevented me from putting a steering box brace on, since it sounds like those are more harm than good.

So you guys, who are beefing the front steering box brace, what do you think the returns are on such a project, compared to just doing a ram assist? I'm starting to get the feeling that anything I do will to the front will just either move the weak point to the box, or further down the line somewhere else. I have beefy axles and steering, and I realize that they are sort of subjugated to the weakness of the frame. For about $250, I could ram assist my steering (histeer and big Chevy TRE's), which would also limit the strain on my trackbar and mount (snapped one already, and watched a friend's snap in a different place). What would be the downside to this, vis a vis strengthening the "frame" around the box?

Finally, I am getting some EXTREME flex out of the rear of my uniframe, especially on my rear bumper when strapping SWB's up stuff like Widowmaker :flipoff2:. I am going to be building a new rear bumper in a bit, and I'm thinking that it will be good to tie the "wings" (the sides, behind the tires) of the rear bumper into same big bolts on either side of the gas tank. Lately I've noticed that this flexing is a common problem when putting alot of weight on these bumpers, and I don't like the flexiness of them, so I'm thinking of running something through the wheelwell to those mounts. Just an idea...

Cheers
Bob

DID you do a SEARCH Here are my links:
Got Unibody subframes? (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61703)
Need Ideas on how to strengthen XJ unibody... (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=848&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)
Topic: Project Double X, Revolutionizing the Cherokee Revolution (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3f440aa06107ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=5;st =0)

There is also that White Xj on 2.5tons and 44in boggers, blue exo cage, and has a full tube frame.

I got 4.5in 120 walled box for $0.20 a lb so thats What I built, I cut with my oxy torch and plug welded and sport welded it alont the uni frame.

I also have used large 1/4in plates for major stress points like leaf mounts, future cage mounts..

work in progress:


http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=393
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=472
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=471
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=470

Drivers side Front shackle mount, (shackle forward)
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=552

Passenger side front shackle mount
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=548

Tacked in place front frame leaf mount (old pic)

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=551

Yes the U-bolts have been cut...
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=644

79 F350 Dana 60 front, running XJ main leaf, added a Yj 4in lift main eyes cut off redriled 2.5in off set about 3in taller then stock xj pack.

76 F350 Dana 70 rear 2.5in lift XJ pack 2in block for now.

Drive shafts, brake lines, cage... much to do.
but sub frame is looking good

Got a ZJ, but it is damn near identical to a XJ unibody so I will stab at this.

First on the steering box section. Get rid of that POS aluminum spacer. Drill the box threaded holes out to 7/16 and put some proper 7/16 grade 8 bolts and hardened washers (both sides) on there.

I like the C-rock design but a 2 1/8 exhaust clamp with a piece of tubeing welded to it and attached to the opposite framerail is working well with 36 inch tires.

I did the same sleeving as AlaskaXJ (infact I gave Dan the idea). TimZ gave the idea to me. Works awesome! buy a piece of 4x6 .250 wall tubing. Cut that sucker down the middle. It will slide right up on the rails with a little help from a deadblow. I located mine with a few 9/16 bolts and then Tacked it every 6 inches with a 2 inch weld or so.

My suspension is hung off this and I have not had a single problem in over a year and a half of medium to hard wheeling.

Pics
http://www.akextreme4x4.com/images/tech/rearlongarm/subframe2.jpg
Subframe with suspension brackets all worked up.

http://www.akextreme4x4.com/images/tech/rearlongarm/lower1.jpg

Here it is installed.

Oh and if you can't weld it to the unibody, just pony up and get it all bolted in place and then have it welded by someone who can.

I also "boxed" in the unibody. Especially after I tore the front leaf spring mount off of the passengers side. Tore it right from the body. I took 3x3x1/4 wall angle iron and ran it along the unibody. Then made new mounts off of that. Helped a lot in my opinion. I am now in the process of adding a 8 point roll cage also.

I've seen Alaska's subframe, great work but that's got to be a significant amount of weight. for heavy/moderate wheelin', would either a cage or a subframe be significant but not both? if so I'd like to go the cage route for bro's XJ...

Any one check these out? I read some reporyt somewhere that they made a noticable difference in handling. What do you guys think? http://www.tandjperformance.com/products-bpp-xj-chassiskit.htm

I made mine stout by throwing steel at it :flipoff2: :rolleyes:

But seriously the one thing that works the best is build a decent cage and connect it to the suspension mounts - once you do this the load gets distributed all over both the unibody and the caging you have installed - limits the sheet metal fatigue cracks from the two systems (cage and body) operating at different frequencies...

I have an internal cage which connects to the roof of my exo - the whole deal went endo off a 3ft ledge and bounced 6" into the air on its roof upon landing hard - the only damage was dents to two of the tubes and a little glass (sunroof and rear quarter glass died) :D

Mine is heavy and if I had to do over with an XJ it would be a heavily chopped 2dr truggy - but the tank works pretty darn well for what it is :p

Matt

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/Trails/TA_Matt3_2_22_03.jpg

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/EXO/exo20s.jpg

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/EXO/exo25s.jpg

Question I have:

When you beef up the frame rails w/ the thicker steel welded to it, you've still got sheet metal that it's welded to. So what keeps the body from flexing against the beefy extra metal & cracking here?


See my attached photo, the red line is where the thick metal & weld stops. Why would this not stress the remaining sheet metal of the under body? Is there just not as much flex here as there is on a "traditionally framed" vehicle? You know... we're always saying, "Don't tie your rockers into the frame on yer TJ cuz the body & frame need to flex differently."

So what's different here? Am I just thinking too hard about it?

Kilby,

There's not alot of flex right there. when I did my subframe, I took care to put a radiused edge on the inside of my subframe right there, since I was afraid of that metal crinkling and snapping. Thus far, though, nobody has reported any problem with that type of subframe, although the most popular kit for the ZJ (Clayton's) doesn't use that style of "c channel".

Bob

Eventually you will get a failure along that line if you do not connect the subframe to a cage and the rest of the body - however that time can be far in the future as you have stiffened the whole chassis with the subframe not just the immediate area... But I would definitely tie as much as possible together with an XJ or ZJ (WJ too; if you got the balls to hack it up :flipoff2: )

Matt

I need to reclaim my '88 XJ. It's just sitting at my dad's place collecting dust, and in need of various odds & ends to get running. All this XJ talk here is really making me want to build that up. So many projects... So little time :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Trango
Kilby,

There's not alot of flex right there. when I did my subframe, I took care to put a radiused edge on the inside of my subframe right there, since I was afraid of that metal crinkling and snapping. Thus far, though, nobody has reported any problem with that type of subframe (edit: on a ZJ), although the most popular kit for the ZJ (Clayton's) doesn't use that style of "c channel".

Bob

Originally posted by Kilby
Question I have:

When you beef up the frame rails w/ the thicker steel welded to it, you've still got sheet metal that it's welded to. So what keeps the body from flexing against the beefy extra metal & cracking here?


See my attached photo, the red line is where the thick metal & weld stops. Why would this not stress the remaining sheet metal of the under body? Is there just not as much flex here as there is on a "traditionally framed" vehicle? You know... we're always saying, "Don't tie your rockers into the frame on yer TJ cuz the body & frame need to flex differently."

So what's different here? Am I just thinking too hard about it?

When done my sub frame will not be the only attachement to the body. My cage will tie it all together, so there will be no structural need for any body.. that is the plan.

My rear section of top is cut off so there really isnt much body anyways but yea untill I get my cage this subframe alone would flex from the body..

Im not wheeling it like that...:D

i think im going to ditch my 2x4 sub frame and torch off the entire unibody frame rails and build a new frame bumper to bumper out of 3x3 .188

Originally posted by INFAMOUSBUTCHER
i think im going to ditch my 2x4 sub frame and torch off the entire unibody frame rails and build a new frame bumper to bumper out of 3x3 .188

Yea I though about that too.. or why not just build a toyota 4-runner, you get the frame, just add axles.:D

becuase i bought a 95 xj for 5k and i owe 3.5k still and i got a 82 4x4 toy pu for a dd

xjs are my vehicle of choice

maybe ill go with 4x4 1/4 inch


runner frame would still prolly need beefing for rockwells and a v8

Well what do you guys think of this?


I took this picture and added some stuff to it? what you guys think will it make it more stiffer?
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=393


and heres what I did to it
http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/1/43/1/86514301lNxHTX_ph.jpg


whad yall tink?

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
Well what do you guys think of this?


I took this picture and added some stuff to it? what you guys think will it make it more stiffer?

and heres what I did to it
http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/1/43/1/86514301lNxHTX_ph.jpg

whad yall tink?

hell yea, red X's can strengthen anything...:flipoff2:

damn... for some reason the pic didnt work

here I link it
http://community.webshots.com/photo/79267869/86514301lNxHTX

how can I make it so the pic can display on POR, I dont like to link it cuz I takes longer for you guys to click the link and load another site.

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
damn... for some reason the pic didnt work

here I link it

http://community.webshots.com/s/image7/1/43/1/86514301lNxHTX_ph.jpg

"FORBIDDEN" really stiffens thing up, even more so the tne red X's... :rolleyes:

:flipoff2:

JEEZ you really know how to push someone dont you...:flipoff2:

i would just get some L shaped steel 4x4 and weld one side to the frame then sandwhich bolt the other side to the floor pannels


do that several places and it would be fine

Mo, thanks for making this the TOTW.

I really like what's been brought to the topic. I've heard through the grape-vine that by simply beefing one area of the uni causes the stress to be distributed in other un-reinforced areas. So this leads me to believe that the entire uni-frame needs to be adequately sleeved for it to be 100% effective, correct?

Now, on that note, are you guys simply pulling up the hardlines that are located on the inside of the driver's side frame rail, then laying them back over the new sleeving?

Fairly simple questions, but I like to cover all my bases.:flipoff2:

yes.... you cant box in the framerails if you dont take off the fuel lines and breather lines from the rails. Then It would get relocated back to the same spot but now on the box steel instead of the frame rail

Another simple one:
What are people doing with the seam that extends out of the frame rail on the inside? (it's below the fuel/brake lines and in the same spot on the other side) Just folding it up?

Originally posted by korda
Another simple one:
What are people doing with the seam that extends out of the frame rail on the inside? (it's below the fuel/brake lines and in the same spot on the other side) Just folding it up?

I didnt cut mine, it has some good strength to it. So on that section I cut my box tube into 4.5 angle iron (L) pieces, I did the same at the steering box, but used a full (C) piece of box were I could.

The hard lines I jsut poped out and will re drill holes for them to go pop back into after the frame is painted so it wont rust.

http://fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={EB485637-C842-4784-8AF3-62E1E6A666AF}&

In KarmirXJ's RED-X picture above... I would weld a piece of angle iron or (L) at least 3in wide, so your top plate would need to be 10.5in or so 4.5+3+3. slab of metal is called plate, or flat bar, if you did plate at the corner the stress would all go to your wled, if you did angle iron then your wled to the box woudl have more surface area, the whole bottom and sides of the angle woudl get welded, so less stress on yoru welds.

Id use 1/4in plate everwhere the cage or sliders tie in tot eh subframe. I would not use bolts, Id do plug welds but If you dont trust your welds pulg-weld and bolt it...

I havent run flux core MIG in along time but my friends that do have had real trouble welding to the uniframe without burning through. Maby its technique but my 135A handler with gas on second hottest setting (3), wire speed 20, wires size 0.035, works good for me.

very nice ash, great detail in that pic. thanks. :D

Nice, Ash... That's what I was thinking *should* be done.

Great diagram! :beer: :beer:

Originally posted by P&T Jeeps
very nice ash, great detail in that pic. thanks. :D

Asshat, I did that diagram:flipoff2:


hey ashman... how did you display that pic? I had a hard time with it...

Ashman, you mean something like this?
http://fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={42848932-455E-4227-8905-5334DCD66F6E}&

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
Asshat, I did that diagram:flipoff2:

hey ashman... how did you display that pic? I had a hard time with it...

yea, well he got it on the thread he gets credit... :flipoff2:

Originally posted by P&T Jeeps
yea, well he got it on the thread he gets credit... :flipoff2:
Whatever... Whatever...:rolleyes:


















:flipoff2:

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ


http://fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={EB485637-C842-4784-8AF3-62E1E6A666AF}&

In KarmirXJ's RED-X picture above... I would weld a piece of angle iron or (L) at least 3in wide, so your top plate would need to be 10.5in or so 4.5+3+3. slab of metal is called plate, or flat bar, if you did plate at the corner the stress would all go to your wled, if you did angle iron then your wled to the box woudl have more surface area, the whole bottom and sides of the angle woudl get welded, so less stress on yoru welds.

Id use 1/4in plate everwhere the cage or sliders tie in tot eh subframe. I would not use bolts, Id do plug welds but If you dont trust your welds pulg-weld and bolt it...


Kinda seems to me to be overkill. I used 3"x3"x 3/16" angle iron to keep the subframe from being crushed and to make a good base to weld to. Designing good sliders and a cage tied into the reinforced subframe will alleviate a lot of the stress. I have also found that good bumpers tied into the frame eliminate a lot of flex. My rear hatch would open and close with jeep twisted in any direction after I put on my rear bumper.

after looking a the latest pic posted here, would it be enough to do the entire cage but only box the "frame" in the areas where the cage attaches to the floor like the pic. sure it wouldn't be as strong as boxing the entire "frame" but it would most likely be enough for a while w/o all of the weight right?

Originally posted by Whiplash


Kinda seems to me to be overkill. I used 3"x3"x 3/16" angle iron to keep the subframe from being crushed and to make a good base to weld to. Designing good sliders and a cage tied into the reinforced subframe will alleviate a lot of the stress. I have also found that good bumpers tied into the frame eliminate a lot of flex. My rear hatch would open and close with jeep twisted in any direction after I put on my rear bumper.

BTW The frame still twists around the rear bumper quite alot. I have the Tomken on the ZJ, which is admittedly not the most super primo bumper, and I've been running it for almost 4 years now. Last night I took it off to think about making a new bumper, and the uniframe is definitely starting to crinkle around the mounting "ports", and there were even a few cracks in the sheetmetal. The upshot out of all of this, besides to point out that there is a real need for ancillary bumper mounts, is to say that if you are looking to bombproof your frame, you better subframe all the way past the rear shocks.

Bob

what happens to the 'actual' frame rail. they do get sandwiched between the box steel. wouldnt this cause water to get trapped inbetween and start rust spots?

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
what happens to the 'actual' frame rail. they do get sandwiched between the box steel. wouldnt this cause water to get trapped inbetween and start rust spots?

yes it would. and your not gonna want to try and make a long welded seam... do alot of long spot welds like 3-4in long every 6in or so then when done seal the gap, you can use the body sealer stuff, Silicone.. any thing, then you can paint it. You could also drill some dain holes in your new frame rails.

In Arizona this really will not be a problem for me, its so hot and dry, water is gone before rust is a problem.

Can anyone put up some images of cage floor tie ins to fraim rails?

What has been the life expectancy for built XJs?

Mine is mild and built for dd duties and camping (4" lift etc.) and I run another rig for any hardcore wheeling.

Just wondering as I would not want to go through the trouble when it is (SEEMS) easier to build a cheap framed wheeler.

EDIT: I DO love to see XJs on the trail so keep building them.

anyone see a prob with torching the unibody frame rails completely off and replacing it with 3x3 or 4x4 3/16 box tubing? using angle 1/4 inch to attach the body in like 6 places on each side? just like a regular truck with body mounts? nothing would be attached to the body at all besides the radiator etc

also there will be a complete exo tied to it

Originally posted by Trango


BTW The frame still twists around the rear bumper quite alot. I have the Tomken on the ZJ, which is admittedly not the most super primo bumper, and I've been running it for almost 4 years now. Last night I took it off to think about making a new bumper, and the uniframe is definitely starting to crinkle around the mounting "ports", and there were even a few cracks in the sheetmetal. The upshot out of all of this, besides to point out that there is a real need for ancillary bumper mounts, is to say that if you are looking to bombproof your frame, you better subframe all the way past the rear shocks.

Bob

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. Any rear bumper that is stiffer than stock will help but it needs to be mounted better than using the small factory mounts. My bumper is 4x4 square tube mounted against two 3/4" thick plates that are 18" long and are mounted flush againt the "rear crossmember". The bumper also ties into a modified class2 reciever hitch.

Originally posted by INFAMOUSBUTCHER
anyone see a prob with torching the unibody frame rails completely off and replacing it with 3x3 or 4x4 3/16 box tubing? using angle 1/4 inch to attach the body in like 6 places on each side? just like a regular truck with body mounts? nothing would be attached to the body at all besides the radiator etc

also there will be a complete exo tied to it

like this?

http://www.fototime.com/FE24A50F35D0B74/standard.jpg

Tie ins

http://www.fototime.com/3C5621CDDEF2078/standard.jpg

rails

http://www.fototime.com/106DD4D2CA47CE2/standard.jpg

^^^
Ha ha ha... :D


You know yer hardcore when you roll your rig so you can get 'illustration shots' to post for online tech questions. :flipoff2:


Why not just replace the entire unirail?? looks like it's just half a section. ???


:beer:

I'm also not getting what just beefing the 'frame' rails is going to do. The stresses are so spread out over the whole structure.
Case in point: my wreck. Granted it was a salvage title and rebuilt from a hard left front hit that crinkled the frame at the driver's footwell area. Also granted it's been flopped about 20 times, and doesn't have a roof. The worst problem is that the whole front is bent down quite noticably relative to the rest of the xj. Also when viewed from the ends there is probably a 5 degree twist over its length.
It does have a full cage that's tied to the sheetmetal very well, but it was a rush job and was never triangulated, aka it's basically a rectangle. But I'd like to figure out what can be done to keep the front clip from bowing down and twisting before the next project starts.

this pic shows it pretty good: http://www.dandcextreme.com/club/trailrides/8.23.03/Image84.jpg

edit: hmm, would rocker skids help maybe?:emb4:

We only plated that much of the uni-rail because most everything else is tied inot the cage. The box tube we welded into the rockers ties the cage into everything and that is tied into the sleaves on the unirail that we used to mount the suspension. After 6 months of pounding, it doesn't seem any worse for wear.

Cody

Originally posted by Kilby
^^^
Ha ha ha... :D


You know yer hardcore when you roll your rig so you can get 'illustration shots' to post for online tech questions. :flipoff2:


Why not just replace the entire unirail?? looks like it's just half a section. ???


:beer:

I know all this is about XJ's but what about the MJ. Would you need to do as much to strengthen the rear half of the "frame" on one or should you focus more on the power steering section?

I just had a thought...what do the JeepSpeed guys do? They most have some pretty cool solutions since they race & jump their junk in the desert.

Originally posted by Goat
I just had a thought...what do the JeepSpeed guys do? They most have some pretty cool solutions since they race & jump their junk in the desert.

I'm pretty sure most of those rigs have internal cages; they've also got these "frame stiffeners" that run parallel with the unibody, but theyre not what everyone thinks they are. I believe they're mounted beside the rails - someone also said they wouldn't do shit for rock use.

Slagburn, that is the most beaten XJ I've ever seen. EasyXJ's rig comes close, but damn dude, that thing is wasted.:eek: :flipoff2:

Beefed my ZJ frame rails using 3x4x1/4.

Went from this:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p1eb3b0fefaa887d58b891d1239a56e94/fc7a1eec.jpg

To:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p87d25f5155e2432a5689e8abb0c866c1/fc153536.jpg



And the truss for the 8.8:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p9b93a7ac3f3cd6d28fd57d4491733380/fc7a1ebb.jpg

Entire ;long arm build up found here: http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?show_all=1&start=1&id=4290718851

Chad

what:confused: you gotta join to look at the pics? how :rainbow:... post the pics on the page here bro :D

Originally posted by JS-Economos

Slagburn, that is the most beaten XJ I've ever seen. EasyXJ's rig comes close, but damn dude, that thing is wasted.:eek: :flipoff2:

You haven't seen anything - how about this one:

http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?postid=18679

Yes it is an XJ and about 18+ months ago it looked pristine... His handle is fitting too - jeepmauler :flipoff2:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pbbbcb7d1155c79b5de8ec8fc90f089b4/fc7a1eb2.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p785e8ba21775007608dcb1ae21818775/fc7a1eaf.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pb3403e94fe8f080c41528c76173c8677/fc7a1ead.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pcf907ee4b56337b88d576b7c51a4e807/fc7a1eaa.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p576ddd350d7bbbd891ad9d9a908479a2/fc7a1ea6.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p49ebd8160d223da3655072f7a6cb5842/fc7a1ea3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p557a19c59e317fb4782be0ae795a83f8/fc7a1ea2.jpg
Chad

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p97aa7ff8b442ea5c69d4bfe31d60243e/fc7a1ea0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p735a5eb392f60fa183414b45ac46702a/fc7a1e9c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p78be4a1e030552436bb1e4b78283f3fe/fc7a1e99.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/pac473a72402d54b1c74b54605503a419/fc7a1e96.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid56/p9465b03ce3016518502dcb02404dc459/fc781265.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pcb331ac46a6577b619ee6739f81fe196/fc4bb197.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p862dc63fbff43ba1ee78a145520200fa/fc4bb184.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pfc353fe84d2584a80f7247dd6c3d6f3a/fc4bb179.jpg

Chad

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p351b27cd421ab3653bcb9c0db3848210/fc4bb152.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p60110daf7afb973fb89182c59666f569/fc4bb13b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p997ddbe6fc70a198f452be267c333652/fc4bb133.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p11e664056852ada3dec5ca4b4f63848d/fc4bb127.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pfd934ba7d8e62e84a96f17305d6980f0/fc4bb115.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pa0c2baec96938c74388f2f52a64052df/fc4bb112.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/pad9e10d3f082560afe8fbb581248e809/fc4bb0f4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p4e769bbd57cd378c095a817250f986cd/fc1f4fa4.jpg

Chad

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p3ec5f3b1567bed72f267e8ee6029563c/fc1f4f2b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p4cb57ae61667f21bb14d79542c7f4c0f/fc1d0542.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p8cc5d599153fba4a8ce6b5290c46664c/fc1d0462.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pd711fd89460647f26a179e279b9441bd/fc1d042e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p1673410dd78ec3d0002df09afb31659c/fc179eb3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pae5267975f0057f9d30691a94ce33662/fc15356d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pf653a7cfd35a0acf4b61c1de317cf2f5/fc15351b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p6da6bd6ef215c066082bb63163ed9968/fc1534fe.jpg

Chad

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p011c0fc3b6084fe3e75f3036b149059b/fc131e13.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pac98cca034779d40333c511a285402fa/fc0cc4eb.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p81d2214fa3af3fe59510140201b83540/fc0578f8.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p9fcdca1563d1e09df39146d4e052e90f/fc02ec5d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pe52bc3327edd5f1f974ebfb2f2fe60b1/fc02ec32.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pc8f669c5138a7ce70919dc07963241db/fbfc1fe8.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pb42873d18333c79446769156ea759386/fbfc1fd4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p13fb1de75592ae0f383dac96b76d6e1d/fbfc1fc8.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p231ffce79af2318b1ddff41d1f2eec1f/fbfc1f84.jpg

It took a floor jack to install the sleaves. It was like the 4x6x1/4 cut lengthwise was made to go over the frame rails. This winter the cage goes in with the tie ins.

Chad

Shit man, chill out on the pics, seriously. :flipoff2:

you could have shown that w/ 1 or 2 pics. but we did get to see eleventeen angles of control arms dangling. :flipoff2: :D

im on wireless


more pics the better:flipoff2:

nice fabbin chad, I like how you made the side bars removable


Ryan

You all can kiss my ass. :flipoff2: :D

Thanks Ryan

I take pics because it is a digi cam and it isn't my bandwith :flipoff2:

Chad

gawd damn Talk about a pictorial!:flipoff2:


Chad that is sweet!!
what kind of tools did you use to make these sleeves?:

cuz it dont like regular garage tools can fab something like that..

let us know:D

My tools of choice are a 4.5 angle grinder, 12 inch chop saw, 7 inch circular saw, a Lincoln Mig 100 and a 155, a 12 inch drill press, 2 gas toarch and alot of time. I went in on a 20 foot stick of 4x6x1/4 with someone. We cut it using two circular saws and a 4.5 grinder. Burned all three up. My circular saw had a rough two years and the other was really old. The grinder had also seen a rough year. Needless to say I got a brand new Black and Decker grinder for free under warranty and the sears saw was thrown away. Cut it using a box of ACE hardware 1 dollar a pice cut off wheels in the circular saws and finished it with a grinder and a few left over wheels from the circular saws. Talk about recycling. All in all the cuts cost 20 bucks, not factoring in the initial cost of the tools.

Chad

Originally posted by MoabZJ
you could have shown that w/ 1 or 2 pics. but we did get to see eleventeen angles of control arms dangling. :flipoff2: :D

I can't beleive you took the time to count them. Yeah and I am wierd. :confused: :flipoff2: ;)

Chad

Very Impressive!!

had the thought of going into business???
you could make fawkin bank with this.:flipoff2:

Yeah I do this kind of crap on the side. But most of my work is one offs. Jeep's QC sucks and the tolorances are shit. More than I want to deal with by making kits of stuff. You want me to build it, get your ass to my garage. :)

Chad

Originally posted by chadjans
My tools of choice are a 4.5 angle grinder, 12 inch chop saw, 7 inch circular saw, a Lincoln Mig 100 and a 155, a 12 inch drill press, 2 gas toarch and alot of time. I went in on a 20 foot stick of 4x6x1/4 with someone. We cut it using two circular saws and a 4.5 grinder. Burned all three up. My circular saw had a rough two years and the other was really old. The grinder had also seen a rough year. Needless to say I got a brand new Black and Decker grinder for free under warranty and the sears saw was thrown away. Cut it using a box of ACE hardware 1 dollar a pice cut off wheels in the circular saws and finished it with a grinder and a few left over wheels from the circular saws. Talk about recycling. All in all the cuts cost 20 bucks, not factoring in the initial cost of the tools.

Chad

and how did it work when you drove it out of yer driveway? Did you add the tire cost? :D

Just given ya some shit Chad.

Cody

Yeah it drove out of the driveway. I got to Phoenix with the shitty swamper tires. Then they decided to blow.

Chad

Originally posted by chadjans
You all can kiss my ass. :flipoff2: :D

Thanks Ryan

I take pics because it is a digi cam and it isn't my bandwith :flipoff2:

Chad

Hay Chad do you have any more pics?:flipoff2: :D

How did (Edit: "I") weld it to your frame:flipoff2: :D

Actually I do have more....

With your gas cooled welder. DUH :flipoff2: :D

Chad

Originally posted by chadjans
Yeah I do this kind of crap on the side. But most of my work is one offs. Jeep's QC sucks and the tolorances are shit. More than I want to deal with by making kits of stuff. You want me to build it, get your ass to my garage. :)

Chad

chad where you at??? if you can help me build something like that for my rig...........





















then I just found a new friend:flipoff2:

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
chad where you at???

Arizona...

Update your location Chad...

I am in Tucson and Flagstaff Arizona. I move between school and home. Tucson being home. The sleaves themselves were the easiest thing to make. Took me about two days work to cut and weld them. THe rest of the suspension build took longer.

Chad

hey i was jw what i could do to beef up the front of my cherokee. i have a cherokee lifted 5.5 inches and want to give it a new look from the front.. anyone got some ideas?

hey i was jw what i could do to beef up the front of my cherokee. i have a cherokee lifted 5.5 inches and want to give it a new look from the front.. anyone got some ideas?
Your kidding right? :flipoff2: :shaking:
Did you read this post or just jump to the end and post?
Damn learn to SEARCH this is not JU

Page 1 pretty much covers it!

Frame bracing for steering box + Real Crossmember

Put whatever you want out front for "looks"

I know its not a do it yourself and I'll get probably get flamed for recommending it, BUT, check these out:

http://detoursusa.com/xjrokslyders.php

They bolt to the front of the rear leaf mounts and the LCA's. Run along side the rails with plug welds and pinch seam attachments. All that and you get some rock rails too.

I know its not a do it yourself and I'll get probably get flamed for recommending it, BUT, check these out:

http://detoursusa.com/xjrokslyders.php

They bolt to the front of the rear leaf mounts and the LCA's. Run along side the rails with plug welds and pinch seam attachments. All that and you get some rock rails too.

I can appreciate the fact that you must have found this thread in a search, but did you really need to bring it back from the dead for a bolt on? :flipoff2:
Billy

We moved this over from the Jeep forum, Unibody stuff belongs here.

Bringing this thread to the top. Lets add some new tech and pics. Ive seen many newer builds with very nice plating. For example dimple die plates.

Any failures to note?

My 120 wall 4in box plating has been holding up fine with the full cage. Afew dents but I still could not justify thicker plating if I were to do it over again.

I did mine with the TemperMental Racing pre-cut pieces, and extended it forward to the bumper mount:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gallery/files/3/1/6/2/1/DSC03299.JPG

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gallery/files/3/1/6/2/1/DSC03305.JPG

They tie in at the bottom to the angle plating I did down the length of the rails.

I had some cracking starting at the steering box area:

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v257/53/103/24800499/n24800499_32321463_5215.jpg

Plated over that, as well as welding the track bar mount solid:

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v257/53/103/24800499/n24800499_32326920_5581.jpg

The steering felt much better after adding these plates, and the stupid track bar mount finally stays put. I always had issues with the bolts coming loose.

I really need to do this. It is long over due. I will post mine when I dove tail the front and back this fall.

plate it all up or do what i did and cut it all out and tube it all !

tnt stiffeners in the middle and 1/8 plate dimple died everywhere else:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/akxj/DSCF1686.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/akxj/DSCF1683.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/akxj/l_b5560208cb692a2a8bfa8821c91ba98d.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/akxj/DSCF1233.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/akxj/DSCF1245.jpg

I've never been able to justify the added weight. The ZJ's biggest drawback, imo, is how heavy it is in the first place.

Here's a rear link mount that's been on mine since '01:
http://home.comcast.net/~susyfoto/longarms/images_rear/01_bracket.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~susyfoto/longarms/images_rear/02_bracketinplace.JPG

No cracks, no nothin anywhere. These things are pretty rigid as is.

I pretty much did the same thing as vetteboy. Cut plates out of 1/8" steel...did inside and out. Also made some pretty heavy mounts and a lower engine crossmember when I swapped in the V8.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04349.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04385.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04690.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04691.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04702.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04737.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/12-11-07_2257.jpg

I don't really have an issue with the steering box anymore, as I've switched over to full-hydro....

im thinking of just useing angle iron and welding it to the outside and under part of the subframe. just havent decided what thickness 3/16? or 1/8".

basiclly the same as the Tnt setup i think but hella cheaper

im thinking of just useing angle iron and welding it to the outside and under part of the subframe. just havent decided what thickness 3/16? or 1/8".

basiclly the same as the Tnt setup i think but hella cheaper

Do you have the angle laying around? Or do you have a hookup? When I priced it, it was almost as cheap to get the TNT kit.

HD Offroad Engineering just came out with a kit that's like the TNT kit, but made of 1/8".
http://hdoffroadengineering.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/xj-frame-stiffeners

Billy

Someone asked where have we all had cracks or problems. Well, here's a list of mine over the years, I'll just go front to back.

Front crossmember at the top on both sides. Top of the frame between the steering box and motor mount, bottom of the frame around the steering box and between the steering box and the track bar mount, outside of the frame between the box and track bar mount. Nearly ripped off a track bar mount twice, seperation of the sheetmental at the bottom of the frame. V shaped cracks both inside and outside of the frame just behind the track bar mount where the frame flares out. At the top of the frame where it connects to the firewall. At the cowl on both sides just above the upper door hinge, on the A pillar a few inches up from the bottom of the windshield, and at the top of the A pillar a couple times. In the floor just behind the rear seat, both sides. At the rear leaf spring hanger, and around the four bumper mount bolts in the rear crossmember. Also, around the latch at the bottom of the rear hatch.

I'm still driving the same rig, and haven't had any problems after fixing those issues and adding the extensive cage. One thing we've learned is that you can go for awhile with no problems, which I did, but once metal fatigue sets in you can start to get cracks in multiple places. It's best to do some thoughtful reinforcing up front and avoid the problems later.

BTW, our body construction is called uniframe, since we do have a recognizable frame, it's just attached to the body. Don't be afraid to use the term "frame", we do have one and we'll all know what you're talking about. Full frame rigs like CJ's, Toyota pickups, Bronco's, etc. experience metal fatigue frame cracks just like we do, so it's inherent on any rig that wheels regularly and gets twisted up, not just on our XJ's.

Do you have the angle laying around? Or do you have a hookup? When I priced it, it was almost as cheap to get the TNT kit.

HD Offroad Engineering just came out with a kit that's like the TNT kit, but made of 1/8".
http://hdoffroadengineering.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/xj-frame-stiffeners

Billy

metal is cheap in FL :D and yes i can get a "hook up" lol ill price it in a bit..
im at work so i cant measure but what is the rail like a 3x5 andle iron?

metal is cheap in FL :D and yes i can get a "hook up" lol ill price it in a bit..
im at work so i cant measure but what is the rail like a 3x5 andle iron?

Closer to 3" x 3"... give or take .500"
Billy

So i want something like the Temper Mental Racing pre-fabbed frame plates. Does anyone else make something like that??

Do you have the angle laying around? Or do you have a hookup? When I priced it, it was almost as cheap to get the TNT kit.

HD Offroad Engineering just came out with a kit that's like the TNT kit, but made of 1/8".
http://hdoffroadengineering.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/xj-frame-stiffeners

Billy

i like those...their shackle relocators look the same as Brians over on NAXJA

i like those...their shackle relocators look the same as Brians over on NAXJA


Same guy.:D

So i want something like the Temper Mental Racing pre-fabbed frame plates. Does anyone else make something like that??

I heard a rumor that Temper Mental Racing was making something similar :flipoff2:
Billy

HD Offroad Engineering just came out with a kit that's like the TNT kit, but made of 1/8".
http://hdoffroadengineering.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/xj-frame-stiffeners

Billy

That's Brian's kit.

http://www.rockhardxj.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2341

I really like them too.

My time is worth more than it would cost to just buy them those.

im thinking of just useing angle iron and welding it to the outside and under part of the subframe. just havent decided what thickness 3/16? or 1/8".

basiclly the same as the Tnt setup i think but hella cheaper

That's Brian's kit.

http://www.rockhardxj.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2341

I really like them too.

My time is worth more than it would cost to just buy them those.

Mine is 3x3 3/16" When I did it the steel cost me $50. But a lot of time as moooooooooogie says.

Plug welded etc.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/jeepstuff001.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/jeepstuff002.jpg

When i did just the steering box brace i felt a difference.

http://www.solofabworks.com/images2/rigs3/IMG_0219.JPG

I did mine out of 3/16. Its what i had around in a sheet big enough.
http://www.solofabworks.com/images2/rigs3/IMG_0220.JPG

Full frame rigs like CJ's, Toyota pickups, Bronco's, etc. experience metal fatigue frame cracks just like we do, so it's inherent on any rig that wheels regularly and gets twisted up, not just on our XJ's.

Yep, seem like one of the most common frame failure on older rigs is ripping the steering box out, due to frame cracks.

so for the Temper-mental racing front frame stiffener plates: should i go with 1/8" so i can easily bend/clamp it into the contour of the frame or should i get the 3/16" set???

Unless you're big into jeepspeed and desert racing, 1/8" is probably fine. That's what I went with on mine and it was a big pain in the ass to get them aligned anyway.

Gotta remember...as many problems as we have with the XJ uni-frame construction, it's pretty damn good from the factory. Bracing with 1/8" sheet will almost certainly move the weak link somewhere else, and stronger plate won't fix that. You have to be smart and have a certain amount of pre-planning before you really get into any of this stuff.

Mine...

Be gentle... My english sucks :flipoff2:

1. One pece weld
2. Shitty weld
3. Clayton's panhard bracket now fixed. This thing is always unbolting itself :D
4. Bended 5/16 sheet
5. Nice blue jackstands :shaking: That's the only pic that i have to show the work done.

I've never been able to justify the added weight. The ZJ's biggest drawback, imo, is how heavy it is in the first place.

Here's a rear link mount that's been on mine since '01:
http://home.comcast.net/~susyfoto/longarms/images_rear/01_bracket.JPG

No cracks, no nothin anywhere. These things are pretty rigid as is.

I don't usually quote pictures but it's kind of necessary since there's a few different things going on in this thread.

I'm really curious how this bracket was attached. Did you end up welding it and bolting it? Just like you, I'm trying to avoid adding another hundred pounds in steel.

do the tmr kits come all the way to where the bumper mounts because my bumper sort of stretched the frame holes and now i need something to fix it

I don't usually quote pictures but it's kind of necessary since there's a few different things going on in this thread.

I'm really curious how this bracket was attached. Did you end up welding it and bolting it? Just like you, I'm trying to avoid adding another hundred pounds in steel.



Just plain welded straight to the frame rail. In this pic you can see the bracket on the right, you can see the front bracket on the left (same idea of welding bare minimum bracketry straight to the unibody,) and then a single piece of 3 x 3 x 1/8 angle in between them and welded only to the brackets so that any force coming from the axles up the arms to the bracketry get transferred directly to the other axle rather than going through just the body.

http://home.comcast.net/~susyfoto/longarms/images_rear/03_weldedwithbrace.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ36.jpgthis is what we did, this is the uniframe all stripped down and ready for the plates

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ39.jpg this is plates installed and some tube work done also, we moved the four bolt J20 steering box forward for better geometry

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ51.jpg another pic showing the new steering box location and winch tray

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ96.jpg shitty pic showing inside plate with tube running thru it from side to side, that tube will be tied into cage

QUestion has been answered.. sorry for the post.. please ignore this post.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/magoo117/MJ51.jpg another pic showing the new steering box location and winch tray

I was wondering, how did this build up turn out? And how much more do you have to do to it?, how much frame strengthing did you end up doing to it?

I went with the roc dog fab stiffeners to start. Once I get them on I will post a few pics.

http://rocdogfab.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:xj-unibody-stiffeners&catid=1:latest-news

http://rocdogfab.com/images/stories/xj%20frame.jpg

Bought a clean XJ with 250K miles and a blown motor:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/newxj.jpg

Stripped it pretty much completely and built a "rotisserie":

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/187.jpg

It spent most of it's time on it's side, so I could do all the underside welding. I Plated the framerails from front to back with 3x3x3/16" angle iron.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/180.jpg

Cut out and replaced the rockers with 2x6 box, and tied the cage into the framerails using these "feet"

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/176.jpg

Put everything back together and went to Moab:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/dscn2757.jpg

It's been all downhill ever since.....

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/table%20mesa%2041809/TM_021.jpg

I haven't had any of the "normal" cracks that XJ's usually get, even after 5 years of really hard wheeling (weekly wheeling on some of AZ's hardest trails).

The only unibody crack ever was on the inside of the framerail, under the steering box. I've since gone to full hydro, so those arent a concern anymore. :D

Unless you're big into jeepspeed and desert racing, 1/8" is probably fine. That's what I went with on mine and it was a big pain in the ass to get them aligned anyway.

Gotta remember...as many problems as we have with the XJ uni-frame construction, it's pretty damn good from the factory. Bracing with 1/8" sheet will almost certainly move the weak link somewhere else, and stronger plate won't fix that. You have to be smart and have a certain amount of pre-planning before you really get into any of this stuff.

Most Jeepspeed rigs are running 1/8" from what I have seen- that is what I used on the 1749/1719 Jeepspeed. Obviously, weight is a big concern with regards to racing, so a well designed 1/8" thick would be preferred over a 3/16". Here is a picture of a set I just put on a "rock-crawler" jeep.....

I went with the roc dog fab stiffeners to start. Once I get them on I will post a few pics.

http://rocdogfab.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:xj-unibody-stiffeners&catid=1:latest-news

Got the center stiffeners on. I hope to get the rest done tomorrow.

http://www.durtyrok.com/messageboard/download/file.php?id=530
http://www.durtyrok.com/messageboard/download/file.php?id=529

great diy right up. now time to go get some metals.

Stripped it pretty much completely and built a "rotisserie":

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/woodynorman/187.jpg




It took a while, but I got my hands on that rotisserie... My XJ should be on it in a couple weeks. :D

I used 3x3x3/16 angle on the uni-frame and hole sawed 2" holes in it. if i did it again I wou;ld only use 1" holes and keep the hole toward the top. The front section I used 1/8" to plate. I think 3/16 would have been too thick to for to the shape of the frame.

Next set done, just have the rear section and the front at the bumper to do.

http://www.durtyrok.com/messageboard/download/file.php?id=542
http://www.durtyrok.com/messageboard/download/file.php?id=529

I did the normal 3x3x.188" angle stiffeners down the length of the MJ rails, though it's a bit different since the frame bows out after the crossmember, then back straight once it hits the front leaf spring mount.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0236.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0233.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0258.jpg



Also did the front stiffeners from the homemade front crossmember to the engine mounts, then engine mounts to just below the firewall. All .125", crossmember is .250".

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0082.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0079.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0005.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0147.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac84/MoparManiacCuda66/1990%20MJ/IMAG0152.jpg

I ran into the same issues when plating my MJ frame. I used TMR stiffeners up front (.125") and RuffStuff stiffeners the rest of the way (.188"). I recommend everyone use .188" (3/16) for frame plating. Use lots of rosette welds and take your time.

Front plates.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3223.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3225.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3227.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3228.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3229.jpg


This is how my suspension crossmember attaches to the frame. Five 9/16" bolts per side

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3279.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3269.jpg


I ended up heavily modifying the RS stiffeners. I think they're a GREAT product...just not for the MJ. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3238.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/HazzzMatMan/1%20ton%20swap/IMG_3242.jpg

Here is my beef up

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/53ac39f5.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/67408936.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/aff08b74.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/b048e87f.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/1c1e935c.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/2d054f7b.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/7531798c.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/abb06782.jpg


http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/306626ca.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/f372fb05.jpg

Here's a few more pics (most of the plating it 3/16)

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/d7862730.jpg
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/b968a56a.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/05fcd24f.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/littlejoe29h/59633db3.jpg

I pretty much did the same thing as vetteboy. Cut plates out of 1/8" steel...did inside and out. Also made some pretty heavy mounts and a lower engine crossmember when I swapped in the V8.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/myjeepsbigger/Buggy%20build/DSC04690.jpg

I don't really have an issue with the steering box anymore, as I've switched over to full-hydro....

On something like this,... Would it be better to weld the trackbar to the unibody, then plate around the the trackbar, then weld the trackbar to the plating?

I would think if you just weld the trackbar mount to the plating only, unless you have some close plug/rosette weld the trackbar mount, it would want to flex and pull the 3/16 or 1/8 plating away from the unibody,... yes no?

On something like this,... Would it be better to weld the trackbar to the unibody, then plate around the the trackbar, then weld the trackbar to the plating?

I would think if you just weld the trackbar mount to the plating only, unless you have some close plug/rosette weld the trackbar mount, it would want to flex and pull the 3/16 or 1/8 plating away from the unibody,... yes no?

To answer your question yes, yes, no and no. :flipoff2:

I personally will weld the mount to the unibody and plate around it. My theory is that the mount itself will become plating in that area.

I suppose that yes if you had a proper pleg rosette weld design, that way would be fine as well. Adding a crossbrace to the other frame rail gives a good piece of mind to strength as well.

I dont see any problems either way really. As long as its done correctly.