Anyone have good success with a dual transfer case set up? Or is there one you would like to see done, and why?
Please include details for the ones that work well. Many of us would like to see a good quick and easy way to tie two Dana 20 transfer cases together because they are cheap and easy to get.
I'm looking at running two married Dana 20's in my rig - just looking for the best way to do it.
Suggestions or :nuke:
Thanks
Ritch

I don't know about the d20 but the np 203/205 doubler is great. I have one in my 65 scout 80.

Talk to Abba here in the IH section. He has the 203/205 in his Scout, but he has the adapter and shaft to mate the 203 to a Dana 20.

I'm working on a cut up match of two 205's. We'll see how that turns out.

What kind of ratio do you get with a 203 and 205 configuration?

I am expecting (numbers could be wrong) something like this: 727 Auto (2.5 lo range) X D20 (2.03 Lo range) x D20 (2.03 Lo range) x diff gears (3.73) time 2 for the Auto "I know this is widely discussed", but I believe in the times 2 for the torque converter. This gives me 76.85 to 1. I realize that i just opened a can of worms (Flame suit on) Bring it awn or discuss with detail or :beer:
Ritch

I'd like to see a Dana 300 behind a Dana 20. Someday I'll build one, unless someone else gets it done first. :)

Originally posted by Ben W
I'd like to see a Dana 300 behind a Dana 20. Someday I'll build one, unless someone else gets it done first. :)
I'll second that notion Ben. I have the D300 in my Scout now and would love to be able to put a D20 or hell, even another D300 in front of it. I've heard about the Mr. Scout Creeper Box but don't know anything about it for certain. I heard it was basically the guts of a D20 (minus the front drive output) in a custom case. Anyone have one of these or know for sure. Only thing I do know about them is they are pricy.

While I would semi-trust a D20 or a D300 behind a v-8 set-up, I don't think that I would trust one behind another one with all the torque applied. The 203's and 205's have always been in heavy trucks with v-8's and even diesels. They have a proven record to hold up to torque.

It is known the D20's are relatively inexpensive. However, I bet you'd wish you had given up all the money in the world if one craps out on you when you are in the middle of nowhere and you are stuck.

Originally posted by TORC

I've heard about the Mr. Scout Creeper Box but don't know anything about it for certain. I heard it was basically the guts of a D20 (minus the front drive output) in a custom case. Anyone have one of these or know for sure. Only thing I do know about them is they are pricy.

The creaper box is a nice unit, but yes, pricey, but simlar price to other after-market units such as the Klune V.

In simplest form, yes, it is an upgraded D20 in a custom case. However, it is also availble with 3 or 4 different ratios ranging from stock (2:1) all the way to like 4.3:1 (or so). With a couple of 3's in there. I know of one test unit, and to my knowlege, in production form, it has been working great, even behind a mildly built 392, wide ratiom, 4.56's and 35's.

If I had the $$$, I'd buy one, both because its a nice unit, and to support a good IH dealer/vendor. Plus Tom and Mike are good guys.

For my thoughs however, I was thining a 203/D20 or D300. I've also been kicking around a toy box. Lighter weight, damn near bullet proof from what I've heard, and a pluthera of gears avaliable.



"future" projects.....:D :D

Originally posted by Scout Dude
While I would semi-trust a D20 or a D300 behind a v-8 set-up, I don't think that I would trust one behind another one with all the torque applied. The 203's and 205's have always been in heavy trucks with v-8's and even diesels. They have a proven record to hold up to torque.

It is known the D20's are relatively inexpensive. However, I bet you'd wish you had given up all the money in the world if one craps out on you when you are in the middle of nowhere and you are stuck.

They are cheap enough you can just carry a spare. :D :cool:

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


For my thoughs however, I was thining a 203/D20 or D300. I've also been kicking around a toy box. Lighter weight, damn near bullet proof from what I've heard, and a pluthera of gears avaliable.



I like the choice of gears. 2:1-ish is a good place to be when snow-running and you need a little wheel-spin from time to time, but 4+:1 would be nice at other times.

If you have the WB, why not a D20 --> divorced NP205?

I'd like to see something like a Bronco left-drop Dana 20 married to a Scout T19 with an IH divorce 205 behind it.

Otherwise, I think Mr.Scout's setup is probably the best way to go - and the most economical. Why waste your time and $$$ on R&D to save what'll probably amount to a pretty small percentage of the cost..

I want to know if Mr.Scout is giving $$$ for Dana 20 cores.. I have a BUNCH with broken cases. :D

The numerous transfer case options make a compelling argument for a 727..

727/203/205
727/Jeep300
727/KluneV/300
727/KluneV/205
Hmm.. 727/KluneV/203/205!
727/4-1/300..

Originally posted by tsm1mt

I want to know if Mr.Scout is giving $$$ for Dana 20 cores.. I have a BUNCH with broken cases. :D


If you got a bunch of cores - take a look for a 10 spline / 26 tooth bullgear for me. It turns out thats the magic piece i currently need to find to see if it's possible to marry two dana 20 t-cases cheap/quick/easily. :D

Ritch

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I want to know if Mr.Scout is giving $$$ for Dana 20 cores.. I have a BUNCH with broken cases. :D



Got any spare fine spline rear outputs assemblys?

Originally posted by Ben W


Got any spare fine spline rear outputs assemblys?

Those seem to be popular lately. :) Someone else was asking for one last week..

I've never bothered to check what the output spline counts were. I'm not sure when I'll unearth my parts-cases next (someday my new shop will be finished and I'll start unloading the "storage Scouts").

One of the few 'cases I *haven't* broke is probably a coarse spline one from a '72.

Do you need a fine-spline rear output, Ben? for a spare?


If you got a bunch of cores - take a look for a 10 spline / 26 tooth bullgear for me. It turns out thats the magic piece i currently need to find to see if it's possible to marry two dana 20 t-cases cheap/quick/easily.

I still think all of the bullgears are 6-spline. From a Ford 3spd (to go with the Bronco gears), a couple on T19s, and a couple from T15 3spds. I think they're all 6spline (then there's the ones from the 727s, still the wrong count)

How about having a 6-spline or 23(?)sp (auto) gear broached to 10-spline to match the output shaft?

OTOH, isn't 10-spline the coarse spline / "weaker" rear output for the Dana 20?

Now you guys are going to make me wade through the snow and dig around in the parts piles just to count splines on my Dana 20s..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Do you need a fine-spline rear output, Ben? for a spare?



I still think all of the bullgears are 6-spline. From a Ford 3spd (to go with the Bronco gears), a couple on T19s, and a couple from T15 3spds. I think they're all 6spline (then there's the ones from the 727s, still the wrong count)

How about having a 6-spline or 23(?)sp (auto) gear broached to 10-spline to match the output shaft?

OTOH, isn't 10-spline the coarse spline / "weaker" rear output for the Dana 20?

Now you guys are going to make me wade through the snow and dig around in the parts piles just to count splines on my Dana 20s..

I could use a spare, never know when the 472 is going to get hungry and the first thing I think it is going to lunch on is the D20 output. :D No hurry though, if you find one I might take it off your hands.

The 10 spline, 1.180 major diameter, 26 tooth bullgear came in 1967-1974 Jeep pickups, wagoneers, commandos etc. with a T14 and Dana 20.

The 727 uses a 23 spline 1.220 major diameter, 26 tooth bullgear.

Yes the 10 spline output is the weaker one. The stronger one is 26 spline believe. Same as a D300 rear output and a D44 pinion.

Originally posted by Ben W


They are cheap enough you can just carry a spare. :D :cool:

Sure. And they are great fun to bench press up into place, while lying in the middle of a mud puddle with mud, oil, grime and grit dripping down on your face, hands being scorched by hot exhaust, arms cramping up from the cold, chest caved in from it slippng and falling on you twice already, head throbbing from the aneurism....

Sure, carry a spare!!!! :D

My buddies been runnnig a married dana 20 into a devorced NP 205 (they share a u-joint)in his 76 scout for about 10 years and has only had problems with it once (broke the rear out put on the 20). He did it because it was cheap, he had the parts allready. He is running a 6.9 diesel, t-19 wide, dana 20 into a HP 205, and dana 60's with 4.56's, 38's. THe truck crawls awsome. I'am thinking about going this route but since i now have a Dana 300 maybe the Teralow 4:1.

Originally posted by Hooper


Sure. And they are great fun to bench press up into place, while lying in the middle of a mud puddle with mud, oil, grime and grit dripping down on your face, hands being scorched by hot exhaust, arms cramping up from the cold, chest caved in from it slippng and falling on you twice already, head throbbing from the aneurism....

Sure, carry a spare!!!! :D

Yeah, but it sure beats the walk home!

And even at home I bench press the Dana 20s into place.. as you can imagine, I'm pretty good at it by now. :)

I've considered adding a Dana 20 and a leaf spring to my on-board spares... then again, why did buy a truck n' trailer... :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Yeah, but it sure beats the walk home!

And even at home I bench press the Dana 20s into place.. as you can imagine, I'm pretty good at it by now. :)

I've considered adding a Dana 20 and a leaf spring to my on-board spares... then again, why did buy a truck n' trailer... :D

I bench pressed mine into place, lying on a nice warm foam pad, on my nice smooth, clean, dry, garage floor, and it was not fun.

I only know about the grease, grime, etc because I had to replace a rear driveline on the trail (an integral part of replacing a D20, but fortunately it was just the driveline) and it was no fun at all :)

I know Ben was being Fascetious though. :)

Originally posted by Hooper


I bench pressed mine into place, lying on a nice warm foam pad, on my nice smooth, clean, dry, garage floor, and it was not fun.

I only know about the grease, grime, etc because I had to replace a rear driveline on the trail (an integral part of replacing a D20, but fortunately it was just the driveline) and it was no fun at all :)

I know Ben was being Fascetious though. :)

I swapped mine out on the side of the road 100 miles from home in some foul smellin' mud.. only to find that after heave-ho-in' it a dozen times that the early (72) t'case's front bearing retainer wouldn't clear the T19..

It actually IS a do-able trail spare. The biggest problem I see is sealing up the input side to keep crud out in the back of the Scout.

Still not something I look forward to doing. :)

At least with a Dana 20 a field-swap is a conceivable idea.. I'd hate to have to do that with an NP205!

Originally posted by Hooper


Sure. And they are great fun to bench press up into place, while lying in the middle of a mud puddle with mud, oil, grime and grit dripping down on your face, hands being scorched by hot exhaust, arms cramping up from the cold, chest caved in from it slippng and falling on you twice already, head throbbing from the aneurism....

Sure, carry a spare!!!! :D

What else are you going to do if you break a TC? Call a tow truck?

*ring* *ring*
Tow truck operator: Bob's Towning
Pat: Hi I need a tow.
Tow truck operator: OK, where are you.
Pat: I'm in the Little Sluice on the Rubicon Trail.
TTO: HAHAHAHAHA *click*

;)

Originally posted by Ben W


What else are you going to do if you break a TC? Call a tow truck?

*ring* *ring*
Tow truck operator: Bob's Towning
Pat: Hi I need a tow.
Tow truck operator: OK, where are you.
Pat: I'm in the Little Sluice on the Rubicon Trail.
TTO: HAHAHAHAHA *click*

;)

Push???

Coast???

:)

Besides, I have a slush box. Much easier on T-cases. And I'm going to have a Mr. Scout Crawler Box.

BTW, just got off the phone with Mike. His box is Trademarked The Creeper Box or Creeper Box Mr. Scout Crawler Box is too long to type.

He is sending me the logo. I'll post it when I get it, provided my ssii email address is working right now :)

How much does The Creeper Box cost? Aren't there different prices for the various ratios? Which ratios are available for auto tranny version?

Originally posted by Ben W
How much does The Creeper Box cost? Aren't there different prices for the various ratios? Which ratios are available for auto tranny version?

As I recall, it starts at $1800 and goes up to 2K+ depending on the gear set.

2:1 gears, or 2.24, 2.45, 3.15 gears, eh Tom?

Don't recall the exact numbers though. Bolt on. Either lever controlled, or cable controlled. All you need to do is shorten rear drive line, and lengthen front. Additional advantage, with the crawler box, you can CV the front driveline without grinding the lip on the auto tranny pan.

Question I have, though, is how does it get around the cross member. If the T-case front output shaft is 12 inches or so farther back, wouldn't that put the front driveshaft at an angle through the middle of the tranny cross member?

Those prices are rediculous. :rolleyes:

Toyota folks can get complete Marlin Ultimate Crawlers for $1800. That is for a rebuilt 2.28:1 reduction box, dual case adapter, and rebuilt transfer case with 4.7:1 gears. No wonder noone builds Scouts.

Or you have the Doubler for the GM crowd, $780 for the adapter. Add an NP203 reduction box and you are still under $1000 dollars for effectively the same thing as the Creeper Box.

For $2000 you can get a 2.72:1 or 4:1 Klune V.
$2300 buys you an Atlas II.

Originally posted by Ben W
Those prices are rediculous. :rolleyes:

Toyota folks can get complete Marlin Ultimate Crawlers for $1800. That is for a rebuilt 2.28:1 reduction box, dual case adapter, and rebuilt transfer case with 4.7:1 gears. No wonder noone builds Scouts.

Of course, at 4.7:1 they're just finally catching up to us at our paltry 2:1

4.7:1 and a 2500rpm 22RE.. or 2:1 and 500rpm from a 392...

Originally posted by tsm1mt

727/KluneV/205
Works great but not exactly cheap.

Hmm.. 727/KluneV/203/205!
Thought about this one but my scout weighs too much as it is without another cast iron gear box. Besides it's way overkill for a auto trans. If I were to go lower it would have to be with a clutch.
:)

Originally posted by tsm1mt

Of course, at 4.7:1 they're just finally catching up to us at our paltry 2:1

4.7:1 and a 2500rpm 22RE.. or 2:1 and 500rpm from a 392...

Ah, no. Read again, $1800 buys them 2.28*4.7. I'm afraid a Toy at 10.716:1 in the t-case is going to walk all over a Scout at 2:1, or even a Scout at 4:1.

Regardless, my point is that $1800 buys Toy guys 10.716:1 and a completely rebuilt tcase and crawl box.

$1800 buys a Scout guy 4:1, a rebuilt crawl box, and a NOT rebuilt t-case. That SUCKS! :)

Originally posted by Ben W


Ah, no. Read again, $1800 buys them 2.28*4.7. I'm afraid a Toy at 10.716:1 in the t-case is going to walk all over a Scout at 2:1, or even a Scout at 4:1.


D'oh. Never mind then!

Originally posted by Ben W

$1800 buys a Scout guy 4:1, a rebuilt crawl box, and a NOT rebuilt t-case. That SUCKS! :)

Economies of Scale. Every Creeper Box is individually assembled right now. Parts are scarce. If enough folks bought them, the price would go down. But, with only a few (that many?) sold each year, it takes a while to recoup the R&D. :)

I agree though, it is a lot of money to spend on a toy. Hard for me to justify it, yet...... :)

OTOH, lower gears in the axles, costs a bit also. And, if I burn up another auto, it is another $400 for that rebuild, plus the torque converter. The Creeper Box is pretty sure to help keep the auto running strong for a lot longer.

So....... Tempting. Very tempting.

Skeetshooter is putting a divorced rockwell behind his 20, should work out pretty well and make the front and rear driveshaft the same length, that way he only has to carry one spare.

It will only be 4:1 however, as the rockwell is also a straight 2:1 case.

Damm, $1800-$2000 seams a bit high when a Tera low dana 300 4:1 kit is less than a grand and so is the NP203 to NP 205 doubler kit and a devorce NP 205 to the back of a Dana 20 is all most free if you have a 205.

Originally posted by nwmud
Anyone have good success with a dual transfer case set up? Or is there one you would like to see done, and why?
Please include details for the ones that work well. Many of us would like to see a good quick and easy way to tie two Dana 20 transfer cases together because they are cheap and easy to get.
I'm looking at running two married Dana 20's in my rig - just looking for the best way to do it.
Suggestions or :nuke:
Thanks
Ritch They sell a kit for that its cald the cold duck from wild horse.

Anyone have a link to the NP203 to NP 205 doubler kit? I wanted to check out that website, but can't seem to find it now. thanks.

Try www.offroaddesign.com
I have their 203/205 doubler kit on my '88 F350 crewcab expedition truck. Unbreakable, even with 11,000 lb, 38.7" 325/85R16 Michelin XMLs, 7.3 with turbo.
Charlie

Originally posted by nwmud
Anyone have good success with a dual transfer case set up?
Please include details for the ones that work well. Many of us would like to see a good quick and easy way to tie two Dana 20 transfer cases together because they are cheap and easy to get.
I'm looking at running two married Dana 20's in my rig :nuke:
Thanks
Ritch

Some of you may know Dooley from San Diego, his 80 has a D20 and a NP205 with a very short driveshaft seperating the two.

Depending on how good your fabrication skills are, you can do what he did, he took his 20 removed the gears that drove the front axle, cut the case down and rewelded it. His 20 now has 2H & 2L and clearance to run the front driveshaft from the 205 to the front axle.

Originally posted by Joe V


Some of you may know Dooley from San Diego, his 80 has a D20 and a NP205 with a very short driveshaft seperating the two.

Depending on how good your fabrication skills are, you can do what he did, he took his 20 removed the gears that drove the front axle, cut the case down and rewelded it. His 20 now has 2H & 2L and clearance to run the front driveshaft from the 205 to the front axle.
That's what I would like to do except use my D300 instead of the 205. I would like to marry the two though which adds a few more kinks in plan.

if you are going to run a divorced case like I am behind the 20 why go to all the trouble cutting the case down? why not just clock it up to get it out of the way.

I decided to go with the rockwell divorced case over the 205 because it looked even stronger than a 205 and the best part is that the front output on the Rockwell is about 6 inches lower than the input or rear output shaft thus making it even easier to clear the front output on the first case.

Originally posted by skeetshooter
if you are going to run a divorced case like I am behind the 20 why go to all the trouble cutting the case down? why not just clock it up to get it out of the way.

I had considered making it divorced, but did not want to give up the inches it would require. I am looking at several possible solutions. I do not want to do lots of machine work, I want to make this a set up that can be done with little trouble. One option is to clock the first d20 up about two inches and the second d20 down about two inches. This will give about 4 inches of clearance for the front drive line. Another option is to rotate the first d20 180 degrees so it's mounted upside down. This would eliminate spacing problems for the front drive line, but creates other issues, not yet determined.

I will find a way to make this work :rolleyes: One way or another.
Ritch

Originally posted by nwmud


Another option is to rotate the first d20 180 degrees so it's mounted upside down. This would eliminate spacing problems for the front drive line, but creates other issues, not yet determined.

I will find a way to make this work :rolleyes: One way or another.
Ritch

Ir you could use a Dana 20 from a Bronco. They are driver's side drop and have a good low range (whatever the Dana 18 is, I forget).