Show up and help save Jergens Trail from closure!

Folsom BLM Web Site (http://www.ca.blm.gov/folsom/sfa_plan.html)

Results of 12/6/01 meeting (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17553)

you don't need a sticky - if people can't keep this thread to the top they should sell their rigs NOW!

TOP!



You can't get it if you don't got it..

Originally posted by Brandon
you don't need a sticky - if people can't keep this thread to the top they should sell their rigs NOW!

TOP!



You can't get it if you don't got it..

No lie! Come on people, 2 days and counting, lets get it together and keep our public lands free!

BTT!

BTT:usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:

I sure hope we have a great showing like last time. I have a feeling the few homeowner that did show last time will have alot more support this meeting. They could undo everything we did.

TOP

COME AWN PEOPLE!!! Pull your heads out of your asses and get involved!!

Give em hell guys!!!

:usa:

TOP:D :D :D

I haven't been on this trail in almost 15 yaers, but i'l fight toot and nail so my greatgrand kids can hang out there if they might want to someday


BTT

Have no fear RCRC will be there... and has ADOPTED-THE-TRAIL!!!

Will be there fo sho.

Thanks for the Sticky Webdaddy!

Lets pack the house on Thursday folks!

if we push to allow camping what kind of restrictions should be placed, if any......seasonal or maybe by permit?? NOT!

I wanted to put in a sentance like"BLM will provide self composting toilet, but i don't think they wanna do anything so maybe "BLM will support and encourage organized groups to install and maintain a Self composting toilet near the camping area"

Same with fire rings, we could design and install at least one very cool and funtional ring, BUT we must convince the folks that the ring or rings will make the fires SAFER, as long as peolpe aren't cutting healthy trees down there.

maybe a 100 foot diameter clear fire break around the rings?? is that possible down there??

Frankly, I don't think a composting toilet is practical for that area. Traffic, drainage, and location have to work just right for success with a composting program.

Here's where I may wind up being the bad guy :( but I think we need to accept seasonal restrictions on camping. We're not losing anything, since there will be seasonal closures on the road to get there -- unless somebody was planning to hike or boat in to their camp?

Randii

At this point in the community planning process, we're done with the goals statement (all that should be left is just to accept it in total -- we need to shoot that through with consensus, or the anti-access folks can re-open it and kill our previous statements). Now we need to propose guidelines for use.

Here's a few different examples of specific, enforceable guidelines (from one extreme to another)...

   We recommend:
   1.) day-use only activities
   2.) primarily day-use activities, with permitted individual overnight use (we suggest issuing a maximum of XX permits/night).
   3.) unlimited individual access, but group use by permit only
   4.) unlimited group and individual access
   (again, all of these will work within the structure of spring-season wet-weather road closure)

   Camping can fall under the following categories:
   1.) dry-camping (no restrooms)
   2.) cold camping (no fire permitted)
   3.) cookstove camping (no open fires, but cookstoves and lanterns OK)
   4.) no addititional fire restrictions
   (all of these will work within the structure of BLM fire restrictions -- i.e. a less-restrictive local rule will be over-ruled by a BLM Stage II fire restriction)

Realistically, camping and fires will likely be lumped together, with a limit of dry-camping overnight use, or cold-camping permitted overnight use.

Thanks to our continued presence at these meetings, the goals for this management parcel include our interests, but the specific programmatic recommendations is where the rubber hits the road. We need to provide some suggestions that the BLM can enforce, the neighbors can get behind, and that we can live with... if we don't, then the BLM's Field Manager, Deane Swickart will be obliged to toss our recommendations and insert his own. If Deane starts throwing items out, it will be easier for him to throw ALL of our use out, as well.

The best way to keep our recommendations in the plan, IMHO, is to show some flexibility. Personally, I'll support any recommendation that retains our river access by road -- I'll willingly give up first fires, and then, only if necessary, overnight camping -- if it means continued access to the road and to the river.

Randii

The homeowners are terrified of fire -- I think we can sacrifice this one thing in order to keep the rest. I think we can... and I think we SHOULD. IMHO, we need to do this to show that we can work within the context of the community.

That's not to say that we shouldn't TRY to allow fires, and make a big deal of self-policing fire rings and working within BLMs existing fire alert conditions... but we should be prepared to at least accept a ban of open fires and agreement to limit use of fire to campstoves and lanterns, and it would go a long way toward compromise with the homeowners.

If we fail to come up with recommendations that specify a clear limit to fires -- and probably camping -- my belief is that the BLM Field Manager, will have little choice but to throw out our recommendations ans substitute his own.

I have sat through more than a hundreds of hours of these meetings, driven thousands of net miles, and sacrificed dozens of weeknights and weekend days to attend this process... please weigh my thoughts against that context. Personally, I'd love to retain unlimited camping, cooking, and access rights to this parcel, but I do not believe that option is available to us, no matter how many people we pack into these meetings. We have to drive a compromise that nets a near-unanimous vote. That is the kind of strong statement that could cement our recommendations into reality. Anything short of that risks later rejection, either at the BLM office, or later, in the Pinehill Preserve Management Plan.

Randii

I agree Randy fires are the one thing to sacrafice in this process, keeping the road open is the main thing here.
We need to keep overnight camping there, you cannot beat the Location. By the way does anybody know if the seasonal closure has begun?

I am hell bent against them stopping the public from having fires. That said, I trust you two to understand this process better than I. If you think we should ease up on that tomarrow, I'll go along with it. Not happilly, but I'll go along.

Access is paramount here, if they are gonna lock a gate for the seasonal closures, i like to see organized groups allowed access by permit. really push the Adopt a trail to show we are very concerned about the road and plants.


I think a sanitry shitter will be needed, especially with the increas in trail usage after these meetings. Whats the chance of THEM putting in a shiter ??

Regarding the fires, start at the extraem, then come to happy medium
open fires in safe rings,
or "Fires by Permit"
or Cold camping as a last card.

Here is another thing to consider, The BLM is just like the USFS as far as funding . The Recreational Trails Program is available to them . They can be our our partners in getting grant money. CA uses the OHV commission to dole out the bucks. but the money is there.
Got this info from Del , he says that there is more info on his web sight about it.
So there is money out there that the BLM can use if they apply for it , just like Placer County did for Mckinney-Rubicon Springs Rd.

After last weeks meeting, I was talking with Jim on a couple of issues and I asked him if they went after funding from Cal OHV. Jim said that they don't use green sticker money. There seemed to be some reason behind it, like perhaps it would have strings attached, but he didn't elaborate, and I didn't press further.

On the fires, I think fire is the #1 homeowner issue and shooting is #2.

I can live with fires in designated areas only.
I can live with seasonal stage restrictions.
A California Campfire permit should be all that is required. It works for all the other areas, why not this one.

As far as the designated areas, if BLM setup fire rings that would be great, but this concentrates the impact in a single location. This location would have to be free of those precious weeds or this won't fly with the plant lovers.

IMO, the only designated campfire areas should be down by the river.


I don't know shit (pardon the pun) about composting toilets but I think if camping is possible then a toilet is needed. Way too much TP off in the bushes and I drink that water coming down the river :barf:

As far as shooting, this is another topic that could become a hot one. My opinion is that hunting should be allowed, but shooting just for the hell of it? At night? like Shootin up 5 gal propane tanks. Come on. This would piss me off if I lived around there.

I'm OK with shooting during hunting season if a hunter has a valid Tag for that region, but that's where I would draw the line.

So, lets step back and think about what we can live with and live without.

C-ya tomorrow night.

- Dan

Is the IOOF hall on HYW 49 or a side street?

Originally posted by Old Scout
Is the IOOF hall on HYW 49 or a side street?

the hall is set back off 49 a couple of hundred feet and has a driveway that goes to 49 just north of the 90degee turn.

If you are coming from P-ville coming down that steep hill, after you make hard 90 degree left turn, the driveway is the first one on your left.

If you are coming south on 49, its the last driveway on the right just before the hard 90 right turn. There is a small sign and a small "BLM meeting sign.

look for all the cars.

Any one want a ride from Stockton? I will be leaving from here ~4:30-4:45. Meet ya at Valley Brewing Co just off of Pacific ave behind BR 31 flavors
Cell 209-482-7533

Bob

Talked to Yosum's, no worries, they have asked that we phone our Pizza orders in ahead of time, I ordered a large already so if someone wants to split it with me, catch me at Pizza.

Here is the phone # 530-622-9277

Brian, bring the Calrocs viddy!

Anyone want a ride from the Shingle Springs Area? I am not staying afterwards just going to the meeting and going home to the family.

Wish I could be there!! But for now ... express TTT :eek:

Face it the majorite of the people that 4wheel are people that just enjoy being out on there own. By the time all the land is off limits You will have only a few folks that will be willing to wheel where posted trespassing signs will only indice them to revolt and wheel. God help those that standup to them.

For those of you attending these meetings, THANK YOU! For those of you planning on joining the rest of us next Tuesday, THANK YOU!

Please keep in mind that we all need to present a unified front... and that we have to be polite... don't let your tempers get the best of you.

I think that Jim would like to work with us... so if we're all sensible and resonable, we'll ultimatly get what we can live with for this portion of the planning process.

Wheelers can do wonders... all we have to do is prove this to the BLM.

Audra

just curious, anyone walked down there? Wondering if the dude with his own private entrance and a land cruiser has been using it or if it is all overgrown..

Damn this thread is from the old stuff.........................from what I know its totally closed. I wouldnt mind going down to do some fishing though!

I stepped over the fence and walked down and back this spring. The grass was knee-high and undisturbed uphill of the first intersection. There's still plenty of road left... the road has been there for years and will take quite a while to fade. Without our assistance on the waterbars, the road is significantly worse for the wear in multiple places. The chapparal is getting really thick out off to the side of the trail.

Tough to say whether the "four-wheeler" who lives up on Kanaka is using the road.... there was signs of some traffic, but that may have been someone servicing the metering station on the river, or a BLM or fish ranger.

It was a beautiful but sad walk.

Randii

Randii, I'm talking about the guy you and me talked to right at the entrance, the one that said just call me and I'll let you in. I've wanted to do that and if I had a rig I would.