Ok I have a 97 PSD. This is not about what is a better tow rig or anything like that. There is a dipshist here at work that that thinks that diesels are gross polluters. I think that a new diesel will pollute less than a gas rig. Any help to prove him wrong I hope ot to shut me up would be appreciated. TIA Will

You're right, diesel's are better than gas in regards to emissions. Not only are most of the values lower, diesels tend to reduce emissions as they age.

Do a google search on diesel and emissions and you should find some good articles. Of course, noone can argue with the opacity issues, but if we were to switch to reduced sulphur fuels... :rolleyes:

Bryan

Originally posted by Oxjockey
You're right, diesel's are better than gas in regards to emissions. Not only are most of the values lower, diesels tend to reduce emissions as they age.

Do a google search on diesel and emissions and you should find some good articles. Of course, noone can argue with the opacity issues, but if we were to switch to reduced sulphur fuels... :rolleyes:

Bryan


Kali diesel #2 is already very low sulfur and in the near future will have to be
even lower. The CARB has instituted very
strict emissions for diesels, including big rigs. That makes low sulfur diesel a necessity.

Ok resident diesel experts....

Why is it that I see somebig diesel trucks that FILL an intersection with thick black soot, and others, same make, model, year, etc. that emit very little?

I theorized that one is loaded to the gills with concrete or bricks or whatever, and the other is not.
Or some moron ripped off all of his emissions gear to "rip ol' earl down at the plant a new one".
What exactly is "off road diesel" while I am spitting out the questions here ?
Oh and while I am at it annoying you all with questions..how about biodiesel.
:)

Originally posted by 4ltrcj7
Ok resident diesel experts....

What exactly is "off road diesel" while I am spitting out the questions here ?


Off-Road diesel is diesel intended for off public road use - I.E. farmers, mines, large industrial sites etc. and it has no "road" taxes on it. I use it in my welder and truck, welder all of the time and truck anytime I am off public roads. Up here it is dyed so it has a visual difference from taxed diesel and is approx. 12 cents/litre cheaper.

Originally posted by Oxjockey
You're right, diesel's are better than gas in regards to emissions. Not only are most of the values lower, diesels tend to reduce emissions as they age.

Do a google search on diesel and emissions and you should find some good articles. Of course, noone can argue with the opacity issues, but if we were to switch to reduced sulphur fuels... :rolleyes:

Bryan

There was also a study that noted that overall emissions were lower during times when semi's were on the road than when they weren't. The theory was that diesel emissions somehow mixed with a prevented car emissions from accumulating. I saw it in the LA Times a couple of years ago.

but if we were to switch to reduced sulphur fuels...

All the "road" grade diesel around here is low-sulphur already. Have to run fuel additives to make our aged rotary pumps last.

It used to be that off road diesel had a lot higher sulfur content. Now it's the same stuff as #2 road diesel except for the pink dye. The dye tells johnny law who has avoided highway taxes on the fuel in their tank if they are going down the road.

Originally posted by CSP
It used to be that off road diesel had a lot higher sulfur content. Now it's the same stuff as #2 road diesel except for the pink dye. The dye tells johnny law who has avoided highway taxes on the fuel in their tank if they are going down the road.

And if you get caught with it you could get fined for every mile on your odometer.

Originally posted by 4ltrcj7
Ok resident diesel experts....

Why is it that I see somebig diesel trucks that FILL an intersection with thick black soot, and others, same make, model, year, etc. that emit very little?

I theorized that one is loaded to the gills with concrete or bricks or whatever, and the other is not.

:)

some people like myself cant own anything without squeezing all the extra power out of it as they possibly can. when you start to increase fueling levels of diesel engines to create more HP/TQ you will sometimes blow smoke before the turbo catches up to burn all the extra fuel. now if you see them blowin smoke just cruisin' down the road....they are just plain overfueled.

Thanks fellas!
;)

Originally posted by 4ltrcj7
Ok resident diesel experts....

Why is it that I see somebig diesel trucks that FILL an intersection with thick black soot, and others, same make, model, year, etc. that emit very little?

:) thats usally a edge comp box and a set of DDIIs it gives ya the ability to turn day into nite for some gasser sap stuck behind my stinking arse :flipoff2: :D not that i would do that of course :D love that HOT ROD DIESEL

Originally posted by 4ltrcj7
Ok resident diesel experts....

Why is it that I see somebig diesel trucks that FILL an intersection with thick black soot, and others, same make, model, year, etc. that emit very little?



In regards to large tractor trailer rigs, one engine blowing a lot of smoke and another not blowing smoke, you maybe seeing several different things.
It could just simply be a difference between an older, mechanical engine, as compared to a newer electronic controlled engine.
You could also be seeing an engine that is very poorly maintained, no matter how old it is. If the engine has dirty air filters, a loose overhead, worn rings or cylinders, dribbling injectors, it will blow smoke.

As to the original posters questions, if properly maintained, deisels run cleaner, fuel efficiently, and have better thermal efficiency (meaning they get more power out of the fuel) than gas engines.

The particulate put out by a diesel, while unsightly, are not a big deal (try telling that to a liberal). The particulates just fall to the ground. They do not stay in the atmosphere.
A diesel that is running poorly will put out hydrocarbons and NOx.
The NOx is really the big deal though. All three of the major engine builders is revamping their engine lines for new low emmisions engine. Cummins and Detroit are both running a cooled EGR system to lower cumbustion chamber temperatures to reduce NOx. Caterpillar is going with enhanced fuel and air systems (read dual turbos;) ) along with aftertreatment (read catalytic converters).
These changes are due to a major EPA lawsuit against the engine manufacturers. The EPA was tipped off to the engine makers falsifying reports about how much pollutants their engines were putting out running down the road. The emmisions tests the engine manufacturers were performing were in laboratories, on "special" engines, that ran a different calibration in the ECM than the engines leaving the production lines. Amusing that all three companies were running the same scam.

Here is a very good article that talks about it.

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=coverstory&content_code=04795232&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1513988&record=2

You mean smokin like this!!!!!

http://www.enterpriseengine.com/images/DavesMonsterRam.jpg

Originally posted by KrebsATM02
You mean smokin like this!!!!!




:shaking: That used to be the standard for making power. the more black smoke you could put out the more power you must be making. What a joke. I know this picture is of a competition only rig, but it just reminds me of all the ignorant drivers I get at work.

Basically, black smoke is nothing but soot, and is generally caused by unburt fuel. This can be either from turbo lag, lugging, turned up fuel, plugged air filters, etc. It is not a problem with diesels in gerneral, but is usually caused either by poor maitance or owner modification. The exeption to this is older menchaincal engines that don't allow for turbo lag or high altitute. Both those things can cause an exxess of fuel, but newer electronic engines are setup to not do this. Also, all the smoke is is soot. Granted, it's not exactly the best thing to breath, but it's no worse than wood smoke, or even say having a candle burning. This (http://www.northtexaspowerstrokes.com/post/Diesel%20Engines%20and%20the%20American%20Automoti ve%20Industry.html) is a paper written by a friend of mione that has a numeric comparison of diesel and gas emmisions. Notice that almost all of them are lower in the diesel, most by several hundered percent. Those that the diesel does produce more of, it's not by a whole lot.
~John

That's why my '03 HO Cummins will stay unmodified. Yes, I own a Jeep, and yes it has no cat. BUT, it mostly stays parked, and the wife's car is a Honda Civic Hybrid. So we do our part. I'll even post a picture of all 3 together if there's any doubt.

Not related directly to tow rigs but when we bought our 2003 TDI diesel jetta the window sticker had it way up there as far as emissions compared to the gas ones. Why would this measure higher then on a gas if it is cleaner burning like people are saying here. The sales guy also said this was the last year to buy the deisel VW in cali because of emmisions.

Matt

Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov an you'll find out. The NOx output of a diesel is way higher than a gasoline car. BUT, the CO2 output is a lot lower.

Originally posted by RockRanger
The sales guy also said this was the last year to buy the deisel VW in cali because of emmisions.

Matt

It's actually for the Beetle, a TDI Beetle gets 50mpg so let's not sell them in the Socialist Republic of California :rolleyes:

Hell...the Euro Diesel Beetles that have the 3cyl engines get around 70mpg! Heaven forbid we sell those in the USA.

Originally posted by RockRanger
Not related directly to tow rigs but when we bought our 2003 TDI diesel jetta the window sticker had it way up there as far as emissions compared to the gas ones. Why would this measure higher then on a gas if it is cleaner burning like people are saying here.


If the diesel engine had all of the cover up emissions controls on it that the comparable gas engine has, then it would run MUCH cleaner.
Gas engines have SO MANY emissions controls on them that many of them put out exhaust that is cleaner than the intake air they take in. Diesel engines are not required to have as many restrictions but still run very clean.

Here's (http://www.northtexaspowerstrokes.com/post/Diesel%20Engines%20and%20the%20American%20Automoti ve%20Industry.html) a paper a friend of mine did, and it has a nice comparision of diesel versus gasser exhaust products, with numbers. Very nice.

Now, another little blurb I though of this morning. When you see a truck dumping massive amounts of black smoke, what you are seeing is a single rig problem. This is NOT an inherint property of diesel. Any diesel will do that if modified, or not maintined, but as currently built, no new diesel engine will make smoke like that. If at all, it will be a very light haze. What you are seeing is a truck that's either been turned up, poorly maintaned, or mabey just tired. Or a couple of other things, but almost always it's either poor maintance, a tired engine, mods, or one that's just old. saying all diesel make smoke clouds like that is just like seeing one gasser buring oil and decalring them all to be junk. Further, what smoke they do make is, while not harmless, one whole heck of alot better than alot of what a gasser makes. Folks, it's nothing more than carbon. Same thing you get from a candle, woodstove, etc. The only way it'll kill you is if you breathe right off the stack for the next 20 years striahgt. And the nice study CARB came out with that said diesel exhaust causes cancer... was based on flawed data that had already been rejected by the epa. The epa recedntly DOWNGRADED the risk of cancer from diesel exhaust. Of course, no one publisises the mistake. In case you hadn't figure it out, this is one of my touchy issues.
-John

my truck is running much larger injectors, a larger fueling cam plate and the intake and exhaust have been opened up. it smoked like a freight train, but ran very strong. i have since put a larger exhaust housing and it made more hp but just as much smoke. i even got a letter from the state that someone turned me in for excessive smoke [ i dusted a dumb ass yuppie that cut me off]. i have since moved the timing up to 16 degrees and the smoke level is comparable to stock. and the power is up a shade over 400 hp at the rear wheels. but i will bet money that the nox output is up, just happens when you bump the timing. i am about to go to a much larger turbo[from a hx 35 to a hx 55] and increase to a #0 plate. it will smoke more if i hit it from low rpms but should clear up better down the road. i will also put in a valet switch so i can adjust the fueling from the cam plate to meet my needs. just trying to keep it all in balance. and get 500 hp at the rear wheels. but twin turbos are the best way to get the smoke down all around. and make the big power. mike

Originally posted by gunracer1
i am about to go to a much larger turbo[from a hx 35 to a hx 55]

How will this affect your turbo wind up?
I would imagine just going to a bigger turbo would cause slower boost at lower RPMs, and improved air flow at higher RPMs, to a certain extent.

it will have a lot more lag than i have now, i can increase fuel to speed it up but it will smoke like a biotch. so i will just live with the lag. for a while, or a propane shot would speed it up just fine. mike