What are some of the most exotic suspensions that you are running or that you have seen? Do they work good? I am trying to decide on a setup for my SJ410 and want a good and flexy suspension. I don't care for the looks at all so that is not a factor. The only thing really left is the firewall and floor section.

:rolleyes: Silly, silly newbiehttp://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1181681-suka_smack.gif

come on art,you can give it to him worse than that:D how about maybe,oh SEARCH:flipoff2:

I hear the new super-conducting magnetic levetation kit from 4wheelparts works well.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/rdv/hsgt/maglev.htm






















Welcome Newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Shrock
I hear the new super-conducting magnetic levetation kit from 4wheelparts works well.

Wow! 'The pot calling the kettle black' That's old news...I have the third gen. mag system on my Suzi :flipoff2:

I have the RRO coil spring system (3-Link) . However, I'm changing it to 'Coil-Overs' do to lack of limited droop.

lack of limited droop?

please expound.

It lacks limited droop.. I hate it when that happens.

I have the ever exotic leaf springs. Heck, they are so exotic they are almost sexy!

exotic huh... Like Teak wood or something?

-Wayne

Originally posted by rotozuk
It lacks limited droop.. I hate it when that happens.

I have the ever exotic leaf springs. Heck, they are so exotic they are almost sexy!

exotic huh... Like Teak wood or something?

-Wayne

That's an idea:idea:
You can put wood paneling on the side of your samy, with your grill it'd look like a woody PT cruiser:flipoff2:












































J/K, it's starting to grow on me now:D

That's what she said:D

Frame one frame works the best:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by BigFrank
lack of limited droop?

please expound. Damn I hate when I do that <-- Needs sexy-tary
Should have read 'lack of droop (limited)' During droop the spring(s) will hold the axle from, what could be, more travel.

I had changed the rear to coil-overs and so far gained over 6-inches of articulated travel (DOETSCH 2.2 Series, QA-1 14-95/10-130). Now the rear driveshaft hits the Y-Link (need to reduce the diam.of the shaft)

Next is the fronts :D

This thread is proof that this place is undoubtedly the best source for useless information.....mixed in with some great tech here and there.

Originally posted by Shrock
This thread is proof that this place is undoubtedly the best source for useless information.....mixed in with some great tech here and there.

What chu talkin 'bout?

http://bfcgroup.com/helluvatough/cgi-bin/smokedoctor.jpg

http://bfcgroup.com/helluvatough/cgi-bin/willissuit.jpg

http://bfcgroup.com/helluvatough/cgi-bin/steroid.jpg

http://bfcgroup.com/helluvatough/cgi-bin/boxing.jpg

http://bfcgroup.com/helluvatough/cgi-bin/acid.jpg

(for no given reason.. Oh yeah, I'm at work on a Friday night...

I see a forum full of fuckin idiots. A bunch of shit talkers with nuthin' to back it up. It's easy to talk shit when all you guys are running around with a bunch of street driven stock vehicles. Fuckin' pussys. I think all you guys just buy what the next guy tells them to cause they think its good. No original thought and I am the newbie. At least I have a mind I use.

I see a forum full of fuckin idiots. A bunch of shit talkers with nuthin' to back it up. It's easy to talk shit when all you guys are running around with a bunch of street driven stock vehicles. Fuckin' pussys. I think all you guys just buy what the next guy tells them to cause they think its good. No original thought and I am the newbie. At least I have a mind I use. This is where all the sheep in the world hang out.

The truck only seems to articulate about 32" right now and the front suspension is still stock. Is that good?

Not to be just another idiot but I think the point folks are trying to make are that most "exotic" suspensions are more gimic than function.

I used to spot in comps for an exotic rig with 4 links front and rear, an arched rear steer 60 blah blah blah and it would regualry gett spanked by a well setup spoa.

There simply arent that many setups that really work. 90% of the current comp rigs are running essentially the same setup...3 and 4 links with a coilover. Hardcore trail rigs are in the same boat but split in half... 50% run something like a comp rig, the other 50% run a quality leaf set up. I went with leafs because i didnt have $500 a corner laying arouind and they are simple and work well.

If you want "exotic" look at all of the :rainbow: TTC rigs in the current issue of fauxwheeler.

A good deal of the top trucks do seem pretty hoopty. I am looking for ideas like do I angle the links, what length links are good, satchell four link or four link with panhard, dual ladder bars with panhard, three link with panhard, triangulated three link, quarter elliptical, triangulated quarter elliptical. Has anyone played with the linkage lengths and linkage angles, longer arms on top or bottom or same length? Do I run the linkages parallel or should the top be slightly angled up from the bottom? Can the frame side be mount closer together than the axle side? Should I use a panhard bar on a triagulated three link?
To say that I should run a three link or four link still is just scratching the surface.
One of the samurais I just built has a well setup SPOA but the front leaves turn into noodle after a couple of trail runs. I am going to put coils on it along with a few other things. On the rear springs of an Acura at the junk there are 3" diameter coils that are 16" long mounted in the strut and they are progressive rate. I also have a set of Aerostars laying around in case that doesn't work.

IMAO leaf springs are used by those not serious enough or are just CHEAP. The leaf spring set-ups hang too low and the rigs get stuck on rocks and ledges. Also, they get damaged by rocks constantly.

1/4 elipticals are now being viewed as just a fancy look'n gimmick that has seen it's days with 'NO CONTROL' droop. Axle Kick Back has been costly to those with these units (Broken axle shafts & shocks). And if you don't get the spring rate right the first time....well $$$

Coil Spring has also met it's days. Spring changes are still cheap enough, and fast enough. However, with limited droop they are best for part time /part serious off-roaders.---> I know I'll catch hell for saying this

Coil-Overs are the best (at this time) for suspension set-ups. Utilizing multi springs and rates (even 3 different rates) the set-up become very 'TUNEABLE'. Especially with 'SHOCK DAMPENING RATE' {in & out} And with a little testing before you purchase the shocks, the correct lenght of travel can be suited to your needs.

As for the 3 or 4 links that has yet to be tested to the breaking points. I like the 'LESS MOVING PARTS' idea! But, this doesn't mean it the best or strongest by any means.

To answer SJ410Rocker 'where to place the links and the lenghts or design', thats still up in the air. --Look, Listen & Try-- More commonly known as R&D

Now for the rebuttals {Hides under Zuki}:p

Originally posted by SJ410Rocker
What are some of the most exotic suspensions that you are running or that you have seen? Do they work good? I am trying to decide on a setup for my SJ410 and want a good and flexy suspension. I don't care for the looks at all so that is not a factor. The only thing really left is the firewall and floor section.

I'd search the gereral fourm. Sit back grab some pop corn and a soda... and read for days on end. You can also PM people that have done links. I had a long talk with Mike shaffer before I jumped into mine and he had a lot great advice. My rear is as flexible as I want to get with it too. But I will change some stuff around in the future as I start my next project. Bottom line is. R&D till YOU like your set up.

IMAO leaf springs are used by those not serious enough or are just CHEAP. The leaf spring set-ups hang too low and the rigs get stuck on rocks and ledges. Also, they get damaged by rocks constantly.

Good leafs are a long ways from cheap.

Lots of "serious" people running leafs.

A well set up spoa does hang down anymore than a link setup.

Links are not immune from rock damage either, I've seen plenty of kinked leafs and plenty of kinked links.

OK, the expensive skid bars.:flipoff2: http://pics.montypics.com/Crab_Bait/2003-09-06/1062884660_Image24.jpg

It may not be "exotic" anymore but I have been running double convolute air springs for many many years now ( since '96 or so )

radius arms, panhard in front ....... triangulated four link in the rear , the 'bags are mounted on drop shackles and a simple valve arrangement is used....

the benefits are .... a realllly good ride ( way smoother than coils or leaf springs )

height adjustability ( you can manipulate your COG on sidehills and climbs )

weight carrying ability ( my little suzuki can theoretically handle more weight than a one ton superduty :eek: ) and I have used it on several occasions ,once chaining a jeep with a broken axle to the front of the zuk , inflating the airbags ( lifting the back of the jeep off the ground ) and driving out of there in seven wheel drive ........ all the way back on the tight , twisty and fircken steep trail to the gravel logging main and right up the ramps onto the trailer

oh yeah it articulates pretty darn well too

but not exotic ( little rubber bags just don't have the bling of a polished aluminum coilover no matter how much armour all you use

:D

Originally posted by AIRZUKI
...but not exotic ( little rubber bags just don't have the bling of a polished aluminum coilover no matter how much armour all you use :D

But a darn usefull and well executed setup that works. What more would you want? Got any pictures of how you mounted the airbags? or of the build up ( i know it took you a LONG time to get it where it is) I have been considering a very simular setup, could you give/e-mail me any hints to how to proceed, I am only days away from tearing into mine to do the change over.
How did you do the air valves? what did you use for valves?

nice Zuki, wish it was esier to get LWB Zuki's here in the states.:(

well the easiest way to check out the buildup would be the article that Larry Soo wrote on his website
although it's pretty old by now.
Airzuki buldup (http://bc4x4.com/fv/2000/ben/ben.cfm)

as far as the drop shackles go it is really simply a shackle ( like on a leaf spring ) except longer and it allows the bag to drop away from the frame ( upper mount ) so that there is no way for the weight of the axle to pull on the bag and possibly tear it

the valves are full port 1/4" ball valves ( home depot ) in 2 aluminum manifolds ..... really simple ...... 7 valves

dump
fill
one for each bag to shut it off (4 )
one to seperate the front and rear

the 'ol zuk is currently undergoing a fall/winter wheelbase stretch and axle-ectomy

oh yeah with the concern for light weight being all the rage these days ..... I'll be willing to wager that all four of my airbags weigh less than one coilover loaded with springs and oil ( pretty safe I figure )

Hey newbie.. If you are bending leafs every trip out, then you don't have a good set up.

As far as all of your questions about lengths and placement. those are good questions. There is no one correct answer, there is only the correct answer to you, the owner. But like Bill said, if you want to learn about anti-squat, center of gravity, points of intersection, etc., then the General 4x4 section has a great resource for you. It has been rehashed many times.

(Many folks seem affraid of the General 4x4 section. Don't be!!! It is by far the best part of this board.)

Here is the message topic you should spend a few hours reading. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7503&highlight=god)


I run leafs becuase I do NOT like link suspensions. Have I messed with them? YES. I'm not a fan of a super flexy suspension in general. I used to be, but I like to use my Zuk for more then just one thing. This is plenty of flex for me:
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/trips/030807/waynes1%20163.jpg
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/trips/030807/waynes1%20161.jpg

I will once again be making changes to the rear leaf pack as the current ones have ruined the ballanced suspension, and ride a little rough. I have changed my spring rates on every single trip I have had it out. But you know what? That is called dialing it in. You know what else? No one runs my set up. You know what else? I can throw this sucker into a turn about as hard as my stock Tracker. You know what else? I don't like you peeing in my sandbox.

Now to lighten up, I think you meant to ask an intelligent question, but the way your worded it, was well, retarded, so we handed you your ass. These types of questions just don't go over well on this section of Pirate. Are we a bunch of asshats? No, we just get sick of the questions like: What is the best suspension? What is the best motor swap? Why is my t-case stuck?

-Wayne (am I being nice enough?)

p.s. Bill F. might be an asshat. It's hard to tell. :D

By the way.. SJ410rocker, I see you are located near by.. You can come by the garage in Anaheim if you like. You can check out a couple of Zuks we have there that are far from stock.

One is sitting on a 3 link with coils and air bags. This is the vehicle that really put me off of coils. It has had 2 complete coil set ups, and now sports a standard SPOA up front. The last mods to it were to reduce the flex and make it driveable on the street again. The air bags are no longer connected.

Drop me a PM if you are interested. located very close of Disney Land.

-Wayne

Originally posted by rotozuk

p.s. Bill F. might be an asshat. It's hard to tell. :D


Some say I am:confused:

I apologize for the way I worded my question. For rockcrawling suspension tech is so new and I am just looking for stuff that's one off. Not to duplicate, but the physics and thought put into certain designs. I am running a self limiting triangulated quarter elliptical in the back and am going to be doing my first coil swap soon. I am a fan of leaf springs, they are alot more fun than an absolutely flexy rig that can go over everything. The spring that are bending take a few trips to bend up mostly due to the fact that they are stock rear samurai springs and the driver is really hard on his stuff. We cannot afford any aftermarket springs for this thing and have thought about Toys but went with coils instead.
I am still fairly new to off roading and rockcrawling as far as driving is concerned and am still very excited about making stuff and experimenting with suspension designs. I don't want power just traction. I am thinking about coils for the front of my truck to go with the 1/4 ellipticals. A turbo firefly/sprint motor to go in front to replace my 1L four cylinder and some really low gears. My truck right now is light enough for four people to pick it entirely off the ground. A couple of dana 60s to go with it. The COG should be nice.

http://www.texas4x4.org/albums/album77/bmra6.jpg
More pics at the 'snurl' link below.

Did you use the same suspension setup front and rear? Does it feel pretty stable at higher speeds? Did you cut down your coils a little?

Originally posted by SJ410Rocker
Did you use the same suspension setup front and rear?Pretty much "yes"Does it feel pretty stable at higher speeds?Is above 10 mph "higher" speeds? If yes, then "NO" (still much much work to do on her)Did you cut down your coils a little? Stock TJ fronts in front, stock Ford Aerostar rears in rear; no cutting.
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I guess you were talking to me?

Hey Alan,

How tippy is she off camber?

http://www.texas4x4.org/albums/album77/bmra7.jpg

-Wayne

Not too bad. Wasn't really wanting to push to the point of a flop, but in the pic you snagged, I kept saying to my passenger "okay hang on, we may flop on this one." I didn't bother to air down, so I slipped off before I could get to the top. It slipped left and down. Should have gone over. Saving grace: rock jutted out enough to grab the front frame/bumper and landed solid (umm...that's putting it lightly). w/o that bumper, I have no boubt she'd have bounced right on over on her side.

But I have to characterize the test run as overall, "extremely successful."

Wow those springs are pretty mooshy. They sure dont feel that way on my aerostar. It seems that you truck is pretty light. I guess they may be a little too light for a tin top with a 25 gal. tank over the rear wheels. That is a little too much gas for a Sammy anyways. Maybe I will go for 15 next time. I was just trying to get a better weight distribution on the truck so it doesn't always feel like the ass end is bucking up. It does ride better than the other Samurais I have been in.

Those Aerostars are really a soft spring.. I have heard from a number of folks that tried them and ditched them..
I have heard number as low a 120 lbs/in where the Samurai setups usually start at about 150 lbs/in and go up from there.

-Wayne

The Aerostar springs are variable so they start out soft and end up pretty dang stiff. The top of the coil wire is a smaller diameter than the bottom; I guess that's what makes the "variable."

I have seen three types.

Variable rate, semi stiff(cargo w/ no windows,) and normal.

Got a set of variables here and going after a set of cargo ones on friday. Going to see what works best in front and back.

Lots fo guys use them. Personally I need stiffish springs in the front and in the back it doesnt matter because I'm going to run an air bag up the lowwer link to support my service deck.

But who wants an exotic suspension anyways? Build something that wont kill your sorry ass.