I was wondering Who here has done the scout II D44 swap on there samurai. I just got a whole scout for free and it has front and rear D44's. Dose someone have pics of a samurai with this set up. Also is it going to be a pain in the butt to get the front axle to line up? Any help would be great. I did search but didn't find what i wanted..

Originally posted by Portrnrzuk
I was wondering Who here has done the scout II D44 swap on there samurai. I just got a whole scout for free and it has front and rear D44's. Dose someone have pics of a samurai with this set up. Also is it going to be a pain in the butt to get the front axle to line up? Any help would be great. I did search but didn't find what i wanted..

Biggest problem with Scout axles is they are Rock grabbers and the front pinion inherintly points nose down so if you spin it up any to meet what you need your castor just got Fucked.. you would be better off finding a set of waggy axles.

What about keeping the Scout rear and getting a Front waggie axle is there much diffrence?

if someone is going to go through the effort to install a D44 into a samurai, i am sure they have sufficient fab skills to afjust the spring perches to set the pinion where so desired, and also to properly operate an angle grinder and large hammer to re-set the caster.

if someone would actually attemt to swap in either choice of axles without these skill's they'd be an idiot so where the pinion/caster point's to is a uselss argument. especially since both axles come stock spring under.

without some narrowing of the axle, or outboarding of the spring hanger's neither axle will fit... so again, decent fab skills will be required here... waggy's are 31.5 center, scout's are 30ish and zuki's are what?? 28 :D both axles are the same overall outside width, the bonus to the scout axle is the 5 on 5.5 pattern. which if it's a disc brake axle, it is very easy to convert to use sami rotor's and calipers with a small ammount of simple fabrication.

I wouldn't do the swap just because of the work required in restoring the castor for the front end. I did A spring over on my Scout and I considered it to be a real task. But its only time, not to mention I had to regear the thing with lockers and that cost me an additional $1300. I would consider somthing else...:)

Well I do have a littel fab skills and i will have help from others with exsperience with doing this kind of stuff so i hope it all works out just wanted to get an idea of what to exspect. I plan on getting a spool for the rear and a lockright in the front with 4.88's and i have the 6.5 t-case so i hope this wil be able to turn 35's or 36's. But before i get teh gears and lockers i wantto make sure on what would be the best move for me.

Have any of your friends done a Scout front end?

Not a Scout front. The plan is to atleast get the rear together in and in and run it like that intell i can get the front done. There shouldn't be a problem with doing this as long as the R&P are the same right. If the scout front is going to be a pain in the ass to work then what D44 is the easiest to swap in to teh front i could sell the scouts front.

there's not much difference working with a scout 44 vs any other 44, the scout axles have a few thing's that are exclusive to them, but nothing that makes narrowing, or cutting/turning any harder.

about 15 min with an angle grinder per side and you'll have the welds ground well enough to use a large hammer to turn the knuckles, i think alot of people are scared of making a mistake in settign thing's up, or just don't feel comfortable grinding/welding to teh cast center section's. it's not overly hard, but time consuming with a grinder/dremel to get u-bolt's to work just right etc..

Originally posted by DSI
there's not much difference working with a scout 44 vs any other 44, the scout axles have a few thing's that are exclusive to them, but nothing that makes narrowing, or cutting/turning any harder.

about 15 min with an angle grinder per side and you'll have the welds ground well enough to use a large hammer to turn the knuckles, i think alot of people are scared of making a mistake in settign thing's up, or just don't feel comfortable grinding/welding to teh cast center section's. it's not overly hard, but time consuming with a grinder/dremel to get u-bolt's to work just right etc..

Where do you have to do the grinding to change the caster?

Originally posted by Portrnrzuk


Where do you have to do the grinding to change the caster?


where the axle tube meet's teh inner "C" part of the knuckle, you'll see a bead of weld that goes all the way around the tube, grind that thing completly out, and the get a BFH and have at it :D

Originally posted by DSI



where the axle tube meet's teh inner "C" part of the knuckle, you'll see a bead of weld that goes all the way around the tube, grind that thing completly out, and the get a BFH and have at it :D

Sorry to keep asking questions. So what i'm trying to do is move the diff up by moving the whole housing and leaving the nuckle and the brakes and all that crap where it's at. so instead of pointing the pinion up when i do teh spring perches i move the housing by grinding the welds and BFHing it. then reweld it and there i have it. sounds easy but a pain in the but.

set teh axle into teh rig, set your pinion right where you want it with weight on the axle, once all of that is done, then grind the knuckles loose and set them back to about 7 degrees, that way you've got the pinion angle you want, and good caster for street driving

Originally posted by Portrnrzuk


Sorry to keep asking questions. So what i'm trying to do is move the diff up by moving the whole housing and leaving the nuckle and the brakes and all that crap where it's at. so instead of pointing the pinion up when i do teh spring perches i move the housing by grinding the welds and BFHing it. then reweld it and there i have it. sounds easy but a pain in the but.

Well, almost...
You will still have to relocate the perches, as they are welded to the housing.

Think about it like that:
You want your pinion to point towards the Tcase. Since the Scout front has zero caster, the steering knuckles have the same 0 degree diferrence in relation to your pinion. So, if you JUST point the pinion towards the Tcase, the steering knuckles will point down towards the ground the same ammount as the pinion is pointed up.
The more you point the pinion up, the more the knuckles are pointing down.

This necssitates the "knuckle turning". But remember, like DSI pointed out, you don't just literally turn just knuckles. You have to turn the "ears on the end of the axle tube.
Look at the axle tube. Where the steel tube ends and the cast ear begines you will find a weld bead.
The ears are pressed on the tube and then welded (hence the bead). You have to grind off that bead. Then "install" locate the axle under the truck at the ride height. Turn the diff so the pinion points where you want it.
Grab the above mentioned BFH and pound the knuckles untill the ears rotate so the knuckles are pararell to the ground again.
Weld the ears.

Remember welding cast to steel is a bit trickier then just steel to steel. Make ure it's done right or make sure you don't offer me a ride....;)

http://www.rachwilkins.com/scout/wheelin/cory_mineral_basin2.jpg
http://www.rachwilkins.com/scout/wheelin/cory_mineral_basin3.jpg
http://www.rachwilkins.com/scout/wheelin/cory_mineral_basin1.jpg

if the axles are FREE wtf is there to think about spend four hours with a grinder and call it good

troutbum,
How wide are your front and rear axles and what backspacing are your wheels??
Thanks

Originally posted by troutbum
if the axles are FREE wtf is there to think about spend four hours with a grinder and call it good

It's only time...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by ZuksRule
troutbum,
How wide are your front and rear axles and what backspacing are your wheels??
Thanks

Not my rig, I helped build it and donated the axles IIRC the axles are 60.25" ish

As for time...that's true, but how much time is going to take you to go to PnP and find a d44 pull it out...then you are still going to want to move the perches to point at the case...time wise it is sixes, I would not start with the scout D44 given a choice, but if I had one I would not hesitate to spend four hours making it usable?

I put my 2" backspaced rims on my front scout axle and it came out to be around 72-73"ish. With the rims on my samurai axles it was like 68-69"ish. Well i'm atleast going to get the rear on before the end of the month and then run it on a trip i have planned then get the front on. but if i get both on then great but i plan on gringing them and setting it up right. What is the guy running for a locker? I plan on getting a mini spool for the rear and a lockright for the front.

Originally posted by Portrnrzuk
I plan on getting a mini spool for the rear and a lockright for the front.

good plan ;)

Originally posted by troutbum


Not my rig, I helped build it and donated the axles IIRC the axles are 60.25" ish

As for time...that's true, but how much time is going to take you to go to PnP and find a d44 pull it out...then you are still going to want to move the perches to point at the case...time wise it is sixes, I would not start with the scout D44 given a choice, but if I had one I would not hesitate to spend four hours making it usable?

What did you do for an E-brake???

Any help from anybody would be good i've searched but what i need to know is. Can i use teh spidertraxe disc E-brake that hooks up to the driveline will it work with a toy drive line and Rockrats adapters? Or any other ideas i want to keep teh toy driveline.

DSI: what welding wire you use to weld the cast to the tubes? or will standard mild steel wire work?

Originally posted by Portrnrzuk


Well i'm atleast going to get the rear on before the end of the month and then run it on a trip i have planned then get the front on.




:confused: what am I missing?

You have said this a couple of times now, about "only getting the rear on for now, and then doing the front axle later"

What is your existing front axle?


Surely, you're not thinking what I think you are thinking..... :D

Originally posted by UZI 9mm



:confused: what am I missing?

You have said this a couple of times now, about "only getting the rear on for now, and then doing the front axle later"

What is your existing front axle?


Surely, you're not thinking what I think you are thinking..... :D

I Have thought what your thinking i was thinking but i don't think that anymore doing the full swap as soon as i get the E-brake figured out.

Thought I would bring this back from the dead...

DSI: what welding wire you use to weld the cast to the tubes? or will standard mild steel wire work?

I have searched and find alot of information on re-welding the knuckles after turning however lots of conflicting information such as whether the knuckles cast-iron or cast-steel, is mig ok, etc.

I believe the knuckles are cast steel, not cast iron, however I believe the perch on the pumpkin is cast and will take the proper precautions (as much as I can with limited equipment, read below) and I'm not to concerned about welding to the cast due to the fact it's only a perch.

Here is my situation. Scout 44 front-I'll be cutting and turning the knuckles without removing them entirely (hopefully) and rewelding them with a Lincoln SP125+ w/.035 flux core wire. Planning on pre-heating, good size tacks @ 3,6,9, and 12 o'clock, one good solid root pass with peening + 2 more for good measure. Does anyone see any major issues with this? I'm a decent welder and a PRO at grinding :D


Thanks in advance.

Inner C's on D44s 30s 60s, and 10bolts to my knowledge are FORGED steel. They weld very nicely.

do you want to run the front sam with the rear D44?

I have rotated the knuckles on a Scout 44 and it's stupid easy.
I had it welded by a friend and have no clue what he used but he is a cert welder and I am sure it was the correct rod.
I have a set of Scout 44's again to put under my Sammy(last set went into a YJ) and it should be a great swap.
Post pics of yours .I would like to see what you make to outboard your sprins up front.
Are you doing shackle reversale at the same time?

This post is 2 years old. I have since put toyota axles under my samurai.

I have rotated the knuckles on a Scout 44 and it's stupid easy.
I had it welded by a friend and have no clue what he used but he is a cert welder and I am sure it was the correct rod.
I have a set of Scout 44's again to put under my Sammy(last set went into a YJ) and it should be a great swap.
Post pics of yours .I would like to see what you make to outboard your sprins up front.
Are you doing shackle reversale at the same time?

I had a cert. welder friend tell me that if they are cast to preheat the knuckles and use a nickle rod......

Here is my situation. Scout 44 front-I'll be cutting and turning the knuckles without removing them entirely (hopefully) and rewelding them with a Lincoln SP125+ w/.035 flux core wire. Planning on pre-heating, good size tacks @ 3,6,9, and 12 o'clock, one good solid root pass with peening + 2 more for good measure. Does anyone see any major issues with this? I'm a decent welder and a PRO at grinding :D


Thanks in advance.


Can anyone answer this?

Here's what I was told

"Your best bet is probably nickle rod if you have a stick welder. Preheat to 300 or so degrees. Weld 1" then peen the weld for about 20 seconds. Weld again. Repeat until you're done. Let it cool as slowly as possible"

Has anyone welded knuckles with a set up similar to I have?

Personal experience?

This post is 2 years old. I have since put toyota axles under my samurai.

AHAHAHAHAH... good call.

D44 Axles weigh more than the entire Samurai... talk about unsprung weight!

What's wrong with unsprung weight...especially on a Zuk???

Well, if you're going down the highway and run over a tire or something, you'll flip over. :flipoff2:

Well, if you're going down to the mall and run over a tire or something, you'll flip over. :flipoff2:

Fixed it for ya'.

Well, if you're going down the highway and run over a tire or something, you'll flip over. :flipoff2:
Ya but at the same token if you're going down an off camber trail and hit a pebble you won't flip over.
I love my weigth down low :D
... and for what it's worth Scout D44s don't weigh all that much more then Toy axles anyways. :rolleyes:

Ya but at the same token if you're going down an off camber trail and hit a pebble you won't flip over.
I love my weigth down low :D
... and for what it's worth Scout D44s don't weigh all that much more then Toy axles anyways. :rolleyes:

I don't know about that.. I owned a 73 Scout II and was constantly blowing up my carriers... they were not fun axle assys to swap. I would guess each entire one including brakes weighs over a hundred pounds more than a Toyo one.

Shelby, runs Scout axles:

Last one of him in Little Blue: