Full floating rear Land Rover hub, went to put on new axle shafts and drive flanges and one of the flange bolts sheared off flush at the hub surface.

I drilled out the bolt, or at least most of it right up to the hub threads, then got a metric tap and started to clean it out.

Got in about 1/4 inch and the tap snapped. I honestly didn't think I was yarding on it that hard, just had a small crescent wrench as my turning handle (cheap bastard).

I got a couple of little chunks out but there's still the tip stuck in there and I am at a loss as how to get it out.

I was thinking pulling the hub and taking it to a machine shop and see what they could do.

I was also thinking while I had it off the truck I could drill and tap the holes one size larger and go a bit bigger on the drive flange holes too.

I tried drilling it out, but just mangled the hub material, so I quit while I was ahead.

To make matters worse I went to put the axle on with 4 bolts (temporarily), and as I was LIGHTLY torquing down one of them, the hub stripped out. Apparently these hubs have seen a lot of axle swapping and now I'm the one who gets to deal with it.

Any suggestions?

http://www.tawayama.com/CrewCab/tap-in-hub.jpg

sometimes you can shatter a tap like that with a chisel if youre lucky and motivated...or if you can get a decent punch in there and tap on it to turn it out that works too...drilling=futile
MJ

Originally posted by Maine Jeepah
sometimes you can shatter a tap like that with a chisel if youre lucky and motivated...

Helps to have some liquid nitrogen around too. Taps get really brittle at -300º F.:D

Originally posted by Maine Jeepah
drilling=futile

no doubt, I've melted to many bits on broken taps & removal tools but I remember hearing once that a masonry bit will actually shatter the brittle metal. never tried yet (knock on wood), but maybe someone can confirm.

good luck, looks like something my dumb ass would have done.:rolleyes: :D

Originally posted by ForestCam
Helps to have some liquid nitrogen around too. Taps get really brittle at -300º F.:D

Hehe, I thought it was brittle enough at +98 deg.

I'll see if I can't round up some liquid nitrogen.

Originally posted by P&T Jeeps_


no doubt, I've melted to many bits on broken taps & removal tools but I remember hearing once that a masonry bit will actually shatter the brittle metal. never tried yet (knock on wood), but maybe someone can confirm.

good luck, looks like something my dumb ass would have done.:rolleyes: :D

I actualty tried the masonry bit on a broken drill bit, worked but took awhile. Have to be careful because the bit likes to wonder, harf to center punch a small bit....
From the looks of the location of the tap, you might be able to get a pair of long thin needles nose pliers in there and twist it out..
If not a machine shop can get it out.:skull:

a shop with an EDM machine might be able to help you.

--Sherpa

When I worked at a machine shop, we had a tool that had 4 fingers that would slip into the voids of the tap and allow you to back it out. You might be able to find them at a machine supply store.

yeah i was thinking a set of long, thin needle nose pliers, or hemastats (sp?). i dunno if warming it up some with a torch would help at all cuz of the hub being on the thin side...

I was trying to figure out how to make a tool like that, but then got thirsty and went inside for a drink. :D

Besides, me creating that kind of tool I quickly realized was a pipe dream.

I'll start looking!

McMaster-Carr sells tap removers. Masonry bits have carbide tips but are not ground sharp. An EDM sinker will eat the core away from the tap but you'll need a really full pocket to do that. Don't even bother with a carbide drill, it'll flop around a break quick.
Here's another note, take it to a machine shop. They'll clamp it down on a mill table and use a center-cutting carbide end-mill to cut the core out, it would be easy as hell.
I'd be able to do it for you if you're close.

can't add to the solution, except BTDT (and "gluing" a bolt head on with JB Weld can work to pass an inspection in a pinch - though not very structurally sound :flipoff2: )

However:

I honestly didn't think I was yarding on it that hard, just had a small crescent wrench as my turning handle (cheap bastard).

That was your problem - you need to use a double-ended tap handle (and carefully) so as to avoid side-loading the tap......






......and breaking it off in the hole....but you know that now ;)

I agree with JeepinDoug, take it to a machine shop. They should be able to plunge a carbide end mill into the hole.
Then you have them put a heli-coil in it and still have the original size thread.

if there are no threads in the hole ( ie: nothing to wreck yet )
you can make a "poor mans EDM " by soaking a welding rod in water and plunging it through the web of the tap..... use a small punch to pick out the bits of tap and chase the hole with the tap drill size...... re tap ( use a proper handle this time ) and voila!

Do you have a welder? Wonder if you could weld a nut onto the tap.

Originally posted by cj7jeep
Do you have a welder? Wonder if you could weld a nut onto the tap.

This is a good idea if your working with a broken bolt but not a tap, heating a high carbon steel like high-speed steel will make it brittle. It may break further down the hole.
The screwed part about using a tap remover is if the tap is bottomed out in the hole, the tap remover might not be strong enough to twist the tap out, especially if the tap started cutting fresh metal, it'll have a chip to break, starting on it's way out.

Invest ina 4-flute tap aextractor set or take it to a machine shop.

You can burn it out, chip itour or dril lit out but all of those options are a pain in the ass and take forever.

The shop can macine it out for you in no time but it iwll cost you.

the tap extracors should make quick work of it unles syou really crossed it up in there. I thinkyou can get a set form most tool supply places for liek 75 bucks and most ofthem have replaceable fingers.

Brownells sells broken tap extractor. use them at work to remove small taps out of shotguns and rifles.
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/952200004.jpg
Find them here at Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=15612)
Good luck.

If you are really good (and careful) with a torch you can actually burn the tap out without hurting the hub. You just have to be sure to keep the heat concentrated on the center of the tap itself, and work quickly once you hit the oxy.

Second best option is to take it to a machine shop to get it cut out with a carbide end mill. That's iff you can find a shop to do it, I've had to convince even fairly experienced machinists that it will work (i've had to do it myself several times). If you do find a shop that will do this, be prepared to pay for the end mill and the time.

EDM is the cat's ass....We had one at the place I worked in the past...best money spent for a tool box....ok slightly larger and very difficult to use but once set up....like butter with no effort.....

Heres a tip from the way of the Aircooled Volkswagen...


Get yourself a busted screwdriver or similar no bigger than the hole and lob the end off it. Then hit it with superglue and quickly press it against the bit. It takes a couple times and be sure to wiggle back and fourth to loosen it abit. This has worked for me twice sofar. I just hope it works for you dude and ya dont ruin a tool for nothing.

been there, done that. it is a PITA. fortunately for me, it was open on the other side so i just torched the tap right out, easy as pie...

Some edm guys will come to your house and do it, cost more though

Ok, I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but WTF is an EDM???

Is it that 4-fingered pickle fork thing?

I think what I'm going to try to do is find a new hub before I resort to going to a machine shop. The hub is probably only going to cost me about 50-75 bucks and I know that the machine time at a shop would be more.

The suggestions are good ones...I was just hoping one of them involved pretending it didn't happen and seeing if it would magically heal itself. :D

Well, you asked- leave it in there and use a shorter bolt :D

Mike,
I have a stick welder...

And am sure that some of the thin punches I have could possibly be used to insert in the channels and a set of vicegrips used to hold them together.


Give me a ring :)

I can probably fix it tonight..

EDM = Electrical discharge machine
Part is grounded, electrode is positively charged, and arc's away the material. I've used them for about 15 years building plastic injection molds, and they are the shit!
good luck!

Originally posted by Jason M
Mike,
I have a stick welder...

And am sure that some of the thin punches I have could possibly be used to insert in the channels and a set of vicegrips used to hold them together.


Give me a ring :)

I can probably fix it tonight..


:D This man has the answer. It's exactly what I have done with 100% success rate.

(only now that I actually have a welder, I would tack weld the punches together instead of trying to vice grip or clamp them)

just call around and find a good machine shop ,,, look for the small one man shops... I drill this stuff out all the time .. normaly only runs about $20

if people would learn to bring there shit to us before they go and drill the mothers off center or snap off taps or easy-outs in them it would be cheaper and a HELL of a lot easyer on everyone

I ask most of the custimers that bring shit in with easy-outs broke of if they have EVER got one to work and I have yet to
have one say YES ... if a bolt is stuck to the point it twistes off there is no way it is coming out with a small easy-out and if you use a big one you well just expand the sucker so its ever tighter in the hole...

the only thang there good for is bolts that have been sheared off,,, not twisted off.

Originally posted by elcornus
EDM = Electrical discharge machine
Part is grounded, electrode is positively charged, and arc's away the material. I've used them for about 15 years building plastic injection molds, and they are the shit!
good luck!

There are two major different types, wire EMD and sinker EDM. A wire EDM uses a spool of wire, stretching between to points (electrical supply). The work piece fixture is mounted to a table which moves in X and Y axis. The lower wire bushing is stationary and the top moves in R, S and Q axis. R and S axis are like X and Y for the table and Q is like the Z axis opening the throat point between the two points.
A sinker EDM uses one electrode made from copper or carbon and is plunged into a work piece. The electrode can have any form you need to sink, an example would be sinking a business name into a punch for stamping.
EDMs have been around for 30+ years and are still really tough to understand. I used to program a wire EDM for making carbide form tools with multiple diameters, radii and angles. What would take a hour to make on an EDM would take a journeyman tool maker days to grind.
They're very fun to learn but very expensive rates to have work done.
As for an EDM guy to come to your house, you must be joking, right? Show me an EDM that plugs into 110v and I'll show you turds the cure cancer.

The trick on a tap that's broken in hard material and not very far in is to hit it with a punch and shear the teeth off like was mentioned above. Then you can take it out with a shop-vac. I've done it many times and it's pretty easy. Doesn't work well in aluminum as it distorts the threads in the hole.

If you can't get it to snap that way, a cobalt drill (or a few of them) will chip away at it and remove it. You should set up a bushing above the hole to keep the bit centered tho. Cobalt drills aren't able to stay sharp while cutting the tap, but they're tough enough to keep working and chipping away at the tap even after they lose their edge.

Our "airplane assist" guys use these methods for remove taps broken off in tapered titanium fasteners that get a little stubborn in old aircraft.

Of course you can't move an airplane wing to a milling machine like you can a wheel hub. . .

bringing an EDM to your house..........I used to run sinkers and wires when I was in the mold industry, about 15 years ago, and I was sitting here wondering....."damn, they make portable EDM's now?" "maybe a portable hole shooter for a wire"? I miss EDM'ing.....best machines ever for really neat gov't jobs.lol