Hi

I have decided I am going to buy a Cherokee. I just need some info on them. Ie: years to avoid, axels to avoid, trannies (I know about the Pugeot). What is the best year and why? Hubs? Is it easy to find them with manual hubs? Any years of the 4.0L I should avoid for any reason? What kind of front axel do they usually come with and which dana axels are good? I don't know much about dana axels. Suspension, which kits are good? What companies are good? Are they all coil sprung?

Thanks in advance to anyone who replys.

personally i'm a fan of the cherokees produced from 1974-1983.

they were available with dana 44s front and rear (or an AMC20 rear), 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual transmissions, 360 cid v8s or 258 cid inline 6s, and quadratrac, new process, or dana transfer cases.

they are very tough vehicles and easily modified. most cherokees use manal locking hubs, unless they have a full time transfer case.

the full size cherokees are leaf sprung on all four corners. they have a 1/2 ton bed rating with a GVW of 6500 lbs and a GCW of ~4200 lbs.

i'd stick to the 70s era if for no other reason than the fact that the engines lost a couple horsepower due to 80s emissions laws.

Couple other things.

What year did the 4.0 HO come out? What is the first year the 4.0 is efi? What about the auto tranny? IS it strong enough to pound on 35's?

Thanks for the reply WillyPete. Is a 258 the 4.2 or 4.0? Are Cherokees xj's or what?

258 cid=4.2L
242 cid=4.0L

the 4.0 has always been EFI, it came out in 1987. DO NOT buy a 84-86 XJ cherokee. they have the crappy GM 2.8L v6 engine. you'd be better off with a 4 banger in that situation.

http://www.jeeptech.com/trans/

tranny information. probly more than you'll need.

the aisin warner 4 speed can handle 35s with the 4L engine.

Aisin? Awesome, they make good stuff. They manufacture all of the toyota x-cases, trannies and hubs.

Does Aisin make hubs for XJ's?

What is all this I keep hearing about rear bumpstops? Why is lengthening such a big deal/whats involved?

Do you think a 5 inch lift could clear 33's nicley?

What exactly makes the HO different for the 4.0? How much hp/torque difference and what is done to the motor to produce that?
i am definetly buying an XJ.

Oh ya, has anyone got any sweet technical/recreational XJ or related links?

Thanks

Thoughts about the Aisin AX-15 5-speed?

xj cherokees don't come with locking hubs at all. The hubs can not be freed up, unless you install locking hubs, which is expensive to do. Most have a vacuum disconnect for the axle. The difference between the 4.0 and the 4.0 HO is the angle of the fuel injectors. I think They claim about 5 or 10 more horses with the HO. The HO came out in 93. Bump stops keeps your axle from hitting the frame, and your tires from rubbing. When you lift, you should extend them. They also keep your shock from bottoming out. There are not 5 inch kits for a cherokee that I know of. There is 4.5 and 6, but not 5. 4.5 would clear 33's, with some minor trimming, depending on wheel, tire, actual lift.

Look for an 87+ 4.0 with Aw4 auto tranny.

All will be SOA leaf rear, 5 link coil front. All will have Dana 30 front axle, up to 95ish will have the disconnect. Rear will be either Dana 35C non-c clip 87-91 Dana 35C c clip 91-95ish? Chryco 8.25 c-clip 95+. Some early 87-89 came with a D44 rear. Look for the d44 - but they are not common. I'd avoid the C-clips, though the later 8.25 are 29 spline and pretty strong.

None will have manual lockouts stock. warn makes a coupe of different kits - but pricey. You can homebrew it like I did, but not for the timid or bolt-on fan.

Ho came out in 91, cleaned up wiring, different head, different ECU system. A little more HP but a steeper torque curve, less easy to modify due to lack of knock sensor. Ho was reworked again in 95 and again in 97-98? All are excellent motors.

The AW4 auto is a virtually bulletproof (within reason) tranny.

All transfer cases will be NP231 (part time) or NP242 (full time capable). Some early may have had others.

The best XJ tech site on the net, with links to many others and good XJ forums is at:

http://members.tripod.com/BillyXJ/tech.html

Biased opinion - it's my site!

See the action pics for what you can do with an XJ

The 84-86 Xj came with the choice of a 2.5 4cylinder or the 2.8 V-6. Although the 2.8 has a bad rep it isn't that bad a motor. I am running a 86 with a 2.8, 5 speed, 4.10 gears and 3.5" of lift with 33x12.50's. The damn things wheels like a beast and as of yet I have no complaints.

Buy one with the 4.0 if you can but the 2.8 or the 2.5 are usable.

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/004/Wx/iy/Xp/eH51508.jpg

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/038/l5/uK/5m/f090709.jpg

Just a couple pics for you.

for a trail rig I ould try to stay @ 91 or older.......I use an 88 grocery getter.....try to get the AW4 and NP231 set up many more sye oand other options fo the NP231,

the newer 94+ tend to have more problems with Death Wobble also

and when you get raedy for skids and body armour...let me know I will hook you up:D :flipoff2: :D

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/1C/7C/6812956-3d92-01C00150-.jpg


http://a1.cpimg.com/image/17/7C/6812951-122e-01C00150-.jpg

Ok so here goes.

I think I am going to get a 91-95 XJ. Some people are saying go earlier than that, some are saying stay far away from earlier ones, really I am rather confused about this. CAn anyone clear me up with some pros/cons?
As far as hubs go, how reliable is the XJ system? Do i have to convert to manual hubs to lift?
It seems most people say you can fit 33's with a 4.5 inch lift and some minor fender trimming. What is minor fender trimming? Basically what I am saying is do I need a Sawzall?:flipoff2: What about a 4.5 inch, some shackles and coils spacers?
How tough is the D30 up front? Can it really handle 33's well? I want the D44 in back, but i don't think it came with 91-95 XJ's. Is the D35 strong with 33's. I am going to swap in a Ford 9 inch eventually, but the key word is eventually.

Why in god's name is there no knock sensor in the later HO's? Mopar messed that up on the 2000 4.7 V8's as well. You'd think they would have learned.

1 other thing. Whats with this SYE stuff? How much do conversion kits cost etc...

1 other thing. Whats with this SYE stuff? How much do conversion kits cost etc...

Ok, here's the cherokee lowdown
I assume you want the smaller XJ model
Look for

4.0HO I think it' just a different head than the 4.0, but not sure

I like the AW-4 auto, only auto I know of that came in them

NP242, why? you have a fulltime option, plus the dana 30's that came with the 242 are NON-disconnect and REVERSE ROTATION, about the strongest 30 you can find. plus, hummers have a HD242 so that's cool

Try and get one with the tow option (it came with a dana 44 rear)

Best bet is to look for a limited more likely to have all that stuff

Lift for 33's you're gonna need about 5" unless you seriously want to hack the fenders

the hubs were always fulltime, warn and milemarker make part-time kits. You'll probably want that if you run more than 33's

I'd go 2 door unless you really need the room, the 4doors you can't cut the rear fenders out more than about an inch or two without serious bodywork

that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but if you've got more questions feel free to ask

oh yeah, when they changed the xj in 97 the dana 30 got 297X ujoints(same as a 44) I think they can be swapped in but I"m not sure what's involved

peace

The years you look at are up to you, but here's a little breakdown of the pros and cons of each year block.

84 - 86: Stay away from the first generation XJs unless you want to do lots of work. No 4.0 available, no overdrive auto, and transfer cases are weaker than the 87+.

87: First year of 4.0, Auto is better than the Peugoet BA10/5 5 speed manual. Earlier XJs came with Dana 44 rears. Watch electrical accessories as they tend to cause problems at this age (applies through 90).

88 - 89: Same as above, but the far superior AX-15 5 speed was introduced in late 89. Fuel tank capacity increased in 89. First years of Bendix ABS which has so many problems that there is an unrestricted warranty on it (mandated by Fed Gov't).

90: Last year of the Non-HO 4.0. Last year of the closed cooling system. Most problems with second generation XJ gone by this year.

91 - 96: First year of HO 4.0. First year of open (with radiator cap on radiator) cooling system. 92 was last year of power/comfort switch for auto tranny. Third taillight added in 93. Driver's side airbag added in 94. Aux fan improved in 95. Very few problems with second generation XJ remain. In '96, the tcase redesign took place resulting in a more exposed tailshaft, but the driveshaft is now able to be removed without dumping oil from the tcase.

97 - 01: First major revision to XJ since introduction. New front bodywork, new all steel hatch, and dual airbags. Fuel tank replaced with plastic unit to save weight. Prone to driveline vibrations even with only Upcountry. There are some problems with the third generation XJs eating brake rotors, having vibrations, and other fit & finish problems, but they are mostly nitpick items. Some misc. ignition changes such as direct fire coil rack in 2000. Also some transmission changes with the introduction of the NV 4500.

The Auto vs Stick is a matter of preference after 89 because they have about the same strength and reliability. I personally
prefer the 242 for winter performance, but it is only available with the Auto.

The HO moved the powerband up in the RPM scale to give better highway performance, but it's still got good low end too.
The open cooling system (91+) is far superior to the closed system. Mostly due to not having a plastic pressure bottle that can fail. This is easily retrofitted to the newer system with a radiator swap.

If you don't care about the 'comfort' accessories, go with a loaded Sport model and get the manual windows, locks, and seats. The seats tend to go first, followed closely by the door locks. Good news is the manual tracks will fit the seats once the power ones break.

The 231 (Command Trac) lost the vacuum disconnect in 91. This is a better (strength wise) system than the earlier setup.

Well lets see, i've scrolled through this so i'll try to pick up what hasn't been mentioned.

The 35 will hold up to 33's as long as you don't go full throttle all the time. A 44 in the rear only came with 87-89 tow package XJ's. The 30 up front could withstand 35's, their amazingly strong for what they are, but i'd be kind of sketchy with 35's and a 30 front. The manual hubs seem to be an expensive upgrade for what ts worth, especially if you decide to do some axle swaps.

Some XJ's have really bad drivetrain vibes and death wobble. A SYE or slip yoke eliminator kit can usually fix the vibes, by eliminating the slip yoke and not not having the rear driveshaft at such a high angle. Usually the older the XJ, the less problems of vibes you encounter. The death wobble has to do with steering and the height of the lift. Usually a longer pitman arm, longer lower control arms, steering stabilizer, and adjustable trac bar can cure this. The larger tires also play a role.

The more and more XJ's get popular people are getting more creative and realizing certain things. Like 4 years ago, 33's were never associated with XJ's. Now finally 33's and 35's are starting to be regular topics for these. Like extremexj proved, just trim and you don't need a big lift at all. I'll have 4" of lift and 33's. The front fenders, just trim away. The rear you have to be careful if you don't want to re-weld, but you can hit the fenders and have the roll back into rear well to accomodate for larger tires.

You'll need to for sure regear for anything larger than 31" tires. All this talk about aw4 tranny, well for a stick shift, as you know the puegot sucks shit, and the AX-15 is decent. If you get stuck with a puegot, the swap is easy, as well as a T-18 or NV4500, slightly more difficult, but obviously well worth it over the two stock XJ trannies. Either t-case is good, but the 231 has more options to it. If you go with just the plain 4.0L engine, not the HO, there are some good upgrades to help out your engine, header, exhaust(rusty's, or my recommendation of Dynomax), air tube and air filter conversion. Just those and you'll notice a good amount of more ponies under there.

But my best advice would be to buy it and take it out stock, then go from there.
Cheers:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :smokin:
Jordan

Well I'll let you guys know why I am doing this now I guess. About 6 months ago I bought a 1993 Toyota pickup. I put a shackle lift in the rear and I am now running 32X11.50. I love the truck but I have realized a few things. 1) I need more space, I need a back seat. 2) I need some decent horse power. 3) I am desperate for a solid front axel. I have been thinking about swaping in a solid front into the truck for a long time but i wont have the money for that for at least 2-3 years. Jeeps and Toyotas have always been in my family. My dad Just bought a 2001 ZJ. So if I sell my truck I should have enough cash left over to buy, lift and slightly modify the motor of an XJ. So I am going to go for a 92-95 XJ. I don't want a 91 because the braking thing really scares me and I want ABS. ABS is awesome when wheeling in snow.....if it works. Where I live we have a lot of snow. i also want the HO motor and if i can find it, the 242 x-case. Color and options are of no concern to me. I have decided that this truck is going to have to stay a little more conservative for now and rest on 33's. However I want 33X12.50's, not X10.50's. I have 3 more questions.

1) Does the 2 door version have back seats?

2) These things seem terribly expensive to lift. What is the best lift for buck? I want massive flex. SkyJacker seems to have the best system, but it's like 1900 dollars!:flipoff2:

3) I am thinking I am going to go with a 4.5 inch lift, then do an inch or two coil spacers and shackles. Do you guys think I could fit 33x12.50's with this setup? i don't mind a little trimming.....but nothing too extensive.

answers:

1)Yes they have rear seats. I know 4 drs. have rear seats that fold down to create more cargo room, don't know about the 2dr. though.

2)go to www.rustysoffroad.com and www.rubiconexpress.com specialize in jeeps, and both make great lifts for XJ's.

3)You'll be fine, i'm sure you can put 33's on there with just 4.5" but not a lot of flex. I can put 33's with my 4," I just wont flex. So if i were you, i'd get the 4.5" get the 33's put'em on, trim, and see if you want the Budget boost, which are usually 1.5" and rusty's has them coil spacers and shackles for $99.00 Plus with your lift, don't get an add-a-leaf in the rear, get new spring packs.
Jordan

The 2 doors do have a fold down rear seat. Main difference is that the front doors to the 2 door are larger than the front doors of the 4 doors. Odd as it seems, 2 doors are a little hard to find.

Lift wise, Rubicon Express seems to be the best bang for the buck and more reliable. Rustys stuff is ok, just problems with fitment and sagging spring issues that crop up. Skyjacker is too pricey for what you get... All else (Rough Country, Trail Master, etc) is junk

Funny, all I can find up here in snowy Canada is 2 doors. 2 doors everywhere. Red bloody 2 doors. Anyway regarding the 4.5 lift. That seems odd because on a lot of sites most people are barley squeezing 32's. If I grab the coil spacers and shackels and go to a 5.5 lift do you guys think there will be any steering problems....5.5 is a pretty good sized lift.

How much do SYE's generally run, just the kit, not install.

Originally posted by IH8MyIFS
Funny, all I can find up here in snowy Canada is 2 doors. 2 doors everywhere. Red bloody 2 doors. Anyway regarding the 4.5 lift. That seems odd because on a lot of sites most people are barley squeezing 32's. If I grab the coil spacers and shackels and go to a 5.5 lift do you guys think there will be any steering problems....5.5 is a pretty good sized lift.

The reason that those guys are barely squeezing 32s is because they don't want to hack sheetmetal. If they claim that then trimmed their fenders, they probably just took a knife to the plastic flare and removed such a slight amount that it makes no difference. Break out the sawzall and cut some metal. You can and WILL fit 33s with 4.5" of lift. 5" gives you more room to flex them out and you won't need to cut as much. The major problem people have with XJ suspension and tire combos are too much lift with too little of a tire. I have seen several with 6, 7, or more inches of lift and 32s or 33s with uncut fenders. At this height, the CG is way too high up and creates some serious stability issues when you are off-camber. Small lift, big tire. Keep your CG low and your clearance high. I'm a big fan of a well balanced, locked, stable, and clearanced rig as opposed to huge lift, huge tires, and gobs of flex.

Reading through the posts, I have noticed a few things that were wrong.

axles: The Crysler 8.25 axle is a pretty good axle. Stronger than the Dana 35C. It is a c-clip, but I have never heard of people breaking the c-clip. I have heard of people breaking the shafts, but Moser makes very strong replacements. There are two variations of the 8.25. 96 and older will have 27-spline shafts. 97 and newer will have 29 spline shafts. There are some 96 models that have had 29 shafts, but they are rare. The down side is that the only way to know is to take the shafts out and count the splines. As for the front, stay away from the vacuum disconnect axles. They tend to have problems, taking your away your use of 4wd. Also, 97 and up Dana 30s are not high pinion, so they tend to have much worse driveline vibe when lifted. !996, not 1997 is the year when 297X U-joints were used. If you get an earlier XJ, to swap to the bigger joints, you need to get 96 stub shafts. I don't know if you need to replace the inner shafts aslo. I also think that TJ stub shafts are stronger than 297X XJ stubs, but not sure.

T-Cases: All the t-cases are pretty good. I would reccomend the 231 because it is more common. The output changed in 1996 making the t-case shorter, but if you get a Slip Yoke Eliminater (SYE) that it doesn't really matter. But, if you get RE hack and tap SYE, than you will need a 96+ NP 231. That kit is cheap ($99) but you have to cut the shaft and tap it yourself, which is actually most SYE kits are but they do it for you. Check out Tom Woods
for good kits for good prices. The site is www.4xshaft.com.

Lift kits: As people said either go to Rusty's or RE. My rusty's rear springs sagged alot and kinked two sets of bottom leafs, so I threw the pack out. A good source for RE stuff and other really good equipment is www.bigoffroad.com. Their custom leafts are awesome! They are made by alcan and I love mine. The 4" lift leafs will probably give 5.5". I have 6" of lift in the front and about 8" in the rear (My bigoffrad 6" rear springs gave 8" of lift so my XJ will look sort of stupid until I bump up the front) I have completely stock steering with acceptable bump steer and no death wobble which is amazing, but I need to address the steering ASAP. If you have any more questions, feel free to e-mail me or post it here.

bberry007...

Few misconceptions on your part too buck-o. Hi pinion D30's did exist on XJ up until 1999 and possibly into a select few 2000's. They went lo pinion after that.... I have a '98 hi pinion, my friend has a '99 hi pinion...

Also, the tcase itself after 1996 is not shorter...just the tailshaft cone. 1996 was the redesign year for that. Shorter tailcone, more exposed tailshaft, but overall length is still basically the same.

Ok, how many times do I have to beat this into people's brains...

XJ's did not start getting 297s at any one specific year. I've seen 92s with ABS that had factory 297s. I've also seen 92s with ABS that didn't get them. Chrysler, go figure.

Regarding the vacuum disconnect axle: Don't avoid this axle...cherish it! Weld the spiders and make use of the fact that you now have a selectible front end. A cable activator can be rigged up for next to nothing, or you can just use an air switch. Have you seen the size of a disconnect shaft in comparison to a non-disconnect unit? HUGE difference. Look at the UCA mount too, very stout as opposed to the stamped sheetmetal mount of the one piece.

Originally posted by bberry007
A good source for RE stuff and other really good equipment is www.bigoffroad.com. Their custom leafts are awesome! They are made by alcan and I love mine. The 4" lift leafs will probably give 5.5". I have 6" of lift in the front and about 8" in the rear (My bigoffrad 6" rear springs gave 8" of lift so my XJ will look sort of stupid until I bump up the front) I have completely stock steering with acceptable bump steer and no death wobble which is amazing, but I need to address the steering ASAP. If you have any more questions, feel free to e-mail me or post it here.

:roxy: Those BIGoffroad 6" leafs will settle in after a few tough wheeling trips. They are ment to ride at 6" with about 350lbs of weight in the back. My 8" pack took about 4 months to settle in. Now I sit at 10" with my 1.75" shackle. I don't quite carry 350lbs in the back of mine.