I've done some searching, but I've yet to come across anyone making such an item. Since I'll soon have the capability of doing this, is there anyone who would be interested??

The toy axle swap is nice, but if you don't want to widen your stance, this could be an option.

If somebody else were already making them, I probably wouldn't bother, dependent of course if they were within my cheepass limits.


Flame if you must, I'm prepared, just as long as I get some links.:flipoff2:

closest thing is the spidertrax sidewinders. I don't see a need for it, as zuk axles can't handle more than 33's. If you make a toy one, then you might have some serious business from the toy and suzi people .

Originally posted by schuss
closest thing is the spidertrax sidewinders. I don't see a need for it, as zuk axles can't handle more than 33's. If you make a toy one, then you might have some serious business from the toy and suzi people .

The main reason that they are weak is because of the fact that they are casted. I'm talking a solid piece of machined barstock that's been heat treated.

The toy axle is simply just a larger version of a week design, correct, or is there some other elements that are playing into this equation??

If we're going to rebuild a Sami axle from scratch why not start with the housing. I mean if we're going to invest anything in the axles why not improve the system. I'm not shooting you down, I would be interested in axles I can run 33s with in my stock housing and stuff but wouldnt it just be a better idea to start from scratch?

For the fronts, your never going to get by the weak link...C.V. Joint.
With my 37's the problem was NOT with the axles, it was the ball race of the C.V. that would crack which led to expansion of the splined area. Then the axle would finish the job taking them both out!:(

Well, I figured the axel is the weakest link out of the whole damn thing, and if you could get these axles for around $150.00 a piece, wouldn't it be nice not to have to go to all the trouble of swaping over to the toy setup?

Were talking just a quick drop in to something that would probably handle some pretty hard use for tires running up to 37".

I realize that at some point, you're gonna start tearing the shit out of the ring and pinion, but it seems to be more likely that the axels are the first to go.

I'm lining up a job right now to use a 4 axis lathe on, so when I'm not running production on it, I thought I'd whip out a few for myself. I figured if there was any interest, I could make more. The hardest one to make on the CNC is the first one, after that, it's just gravy.

Originally posted by Crab Bait
For the fronts, your never going to get by the weak link...C.V. Joint.
With my 37's the problem was NOT with the axles, it was the ball race of the C.V. that would crack which led to expansion of the splined area. Then the axle would finish the job taking them both out!:(

You don't happen to have any pics of that do you??

I'd be curious to see what that ended up looking like.

Originally posted by bluezuked
I've done some searching, but I've yet to come across anyone making such an item. Since I'll soon have the capability of doing this, is there anyone who would be interested??

The toy axle swap is nice, but if you don't want to widen your stance, this could be an option.

If somebody else were already making them, I probably wouldn't bother, dependent of course if they were within my cheepass limits.


Flame if you must, I'm prepared, just as long as I get some links.:flipoff2:

I thought you guys knew everything about everything here.

Is this what you're talking about?????

http://www.puresuzuki.com/axles.htm

These are 4140 bar stock, upset forged ends, machined to size, hobbed splines, and induction hardened. They are not recut to size stuff whose only reliable trait is fragging themselves to pieces on the trail. If you need something to run 35's these aren't it. We've had very good luck with 33's though. What else do you need?

What are they running on the RC scale in hardness??

Has the core been heat treated or just induction hardening on the surface?

Are the 35 and above snapping these, or is something else giving out?

I think he's talking about something tougher there. Personally for somone who is yet to really outgrow his 31"s even if I dont have a rig right not. If you wanna overbuild a system to take 37s on a mall cruiser fine. The axle itself isnt what breaks with the big rigs or so is my understanding. Reguardless, what I'd like to see is more axles that are built very tough around the stock Sami setup. I ran 31's and I still managed to bust 4 axles. Whynot upgrade, simple I got twelve stock axles from a junkyard for ten bucks.

Originally posted by bluezuked
I've done some searching, but I've yet to come across anyone making such an item.

I think you are going to have to find a way to deal with the wimpy sammi birfield to make it worth the effort.

I've busted a Toy birf on 33's, and they are WAY stronger than the little sammi ones.

Jim

Well I'd rather bust Birfs and axles than anything potentially more difficult to repair and/or more expensive.

Originally posted by bluezuked
What are they running on the RC scale in hardness??

Has the core been heat treated or just induction hardening on the surface?

Are the 35 and above snapping these, or is something else giving out?

Induction to RC56-58. Case depth is about 25% of the o.d.

Can't answer the question about 35's, we haven't had a set back broken yet.

why not save the trouble:rolleyes: if your going to wheel hard, the zuk axles just wont like it!!! You can spend all the money you want>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then youll get bigger shit:D :D

Originally posted by CALMINI Products Inc


Induction to RC56-58. Case depth is about 25% of the o.d.

Can't answer the question about 35's, we haven't had a set back broken yet.

thats the way to make them Steve. with the induction hardening on these axles you are achieving more deflection or torsional twist allowing the shaft to absorb more shock load so they are not to rigid where they beat the hell out of the other components. and the higher tensile strength of the 4140 is an added bonus.

through hardening is a process you see alot of "non" manufacturers use because it is the easy way to heat treat an axle. no tooling (inductor) needed or the knowledge when it comes to induction hardening. just throw the batch in the oven, quench, temper down and straighten. don't get me wrong through hardening is good for some applications, just not this one.

by the way 2 of my buddies are running your shafts with 33's and have yet to snap one. great product!

back to survivor:D

suposedly there is a 30sp sidekick hybrid rear being built, and even a 30sp zuk/dana front hybrid... all using cro-mo axles, so it's nothing that hasn't been done already ;)


oh, wait... i'm built em :laughing: and as soon as supercrawl and RRCA are over they'll get finished...

I think that sami axles are pretty tough outa the box. I know that a ton of people are gonna jump on me for this but weve got several samis in our club, all running 33s and one on 35s with very minimal axle breakage. Yes the do wheel the piss out of them. All are locked with 4-1 and 5.12. Im not saying it doesnt ever happen, just not as much as some of you make it seem. One of our guys just ordered calminis front shafts. We will see how they hold up. I wouldnt disregard the sami axle so fast.

Mike

Assuming that you are not using stock d-shafts and the U-joint isn’t your weak point.
If you eliminate birfield breakage (birf rings), you break shafts,
Once you eliminate shaft breakage, you destroy wheel bearings, carrier bearings, carriers, and gears. (wheel bearings blow out regularly anyway on my rig)
I’m not an expert on metallurgy, or even axle breakage since I run 31’s and it seldomly happens.

I know that I have bent several rear axles, cracked sealed bearings, spun carrier bearings, wallowed out the cross pin holes in a carrier, and destroyed side gears.

Tire diameter is the biggest factor with axles breakage.
The easiest solution is to use a larger diameter axle shaft.
Common sense – more cross sectional area = greater strength. The use of exotic metals and metallurgy is more expensive and less effective. Having a stronger axle shaft is only a small piece to the puzzle.

Back to my original point, the axle shafts strength and longevity is relative to strength and longevity of carrier and other components. That’s why samurais are so nice to build, because the driveline strength, power, and weight are very well balanced.
If you make one component stronger, it just shifts the weak point down the line.

I don’t see an advantage using a sidekick third, because the axle shaft diameter and spline count is exactly the same as the samurai.

Now DSI is on the ball, stronger carrier (sidekick), larger diameter axles, all with readily available parts. Now if it is competitively priced with a toy axle swap. He’s going to retire in a few years.

I’ve looked at from all angles, I’m going to a toy axle swap.
If someone would cut down toy axles and housings to a samurai width and make it a bolt in swap. They would sell more than they could ever make. Simple process: Cut housing, cut axles and respline, weld on new perches and make available to the public.

ok "chem442" :laughing:

without trying to sound like i'm making a sales pitch, or needing a yellow star, i'll see how i can say this...


kick 5.12's in a sami housing, standard issue 5.12 gear swap 3rd, but with the case and side gears upgraded to work with 30sp, lockrite locker, cro-mo axles, long super joint's, but will use dana outer's with 5x5.5 lug pattern and sami brakes.

the rear is a simple swap! kick hybrid housing, using kick axle bearings (bigger) kick rear 3rd, upgraded case to 30sp, cro-mo axles 5 on 5.5 pattern, all to work with origional drum brakes, or using sami front's as a disc swap (lose e-brake)

i'm done with the carrier's as seen posted in another thread, but have not finished the housing, as i am still waiting on my donor outer's we'll be putting these in moto's rig after RRCA in october, and with his 210:1, 35in krawlers, and throttle on driving style, we're going to find failure before we go any farther with this setup

Originally posted by DSI





but will use dana outer's with 5x5.5 lug pattern and sami brakes.




Now that several companies are building hybrid front axles with
Dana knuckles,I'm wondering where the inner knuckles (yokes)
are coming from? Are they all being salvaged from bone yards or is
there a source for new pieces.I've found several vendors that
sell the outer knuckles but haven't come across any that provide
the inners.Anybody know?
:confused:

Originally posted by rollerskate



Now that several companies are building hybrid front axles with
Dana knuckles,I'm wondering where the inner knuckles (yokes)
are coming from? Are they all being salvaged from bone yards or is
there a source for new pieces.I've found several vendors that
sell the outer knuckles but haven't come across any that provide
the inners.Anybody know?
:confused:



all ya need is a shop bitch... then ya just don't ask where he got them :evil:

i wonder if all teh old CJ's in teh area are missing parts :laughing:

Originally posted by Chem442
.

Tire diameter is the biggest factor with axles breakage.
The easiest solution is to use a larger diameter axle shaft.
Common sense – more cross sectional area = greater strength. The use of exotic metals and metallurgy is more expensive and less effective. Having a stronger axle shaft is only a small piece to the puzzle.



Increasing diameter of the shaft diameter to be larger then the spline diameter is actually a weaker axle. the shaft will have a little to no torsion in it and it will break at the splines everytime. the strongest possible axle is made at either the minor diameter of the spline or the mean of the major and minor. it is all about torsion. you make the shaft larger than the leverage point it will always break at the spline everytime. the axles Calmini has is a substantial upgrade over the stock ones. example: short side shaft in the 44 breaks over the long side 9 times out of 10. only reason why is it has limited torsion. the long side will wrap a little more on the body so you see less breaks.

as far as your claim that using better material is less effective. so you telling me if i were to make the tail hook for a f-15 out of 1045 versus 300m it would stop the jet on the aircraft carrier with out a problem when it snags the cable and the pilot drops the throttle to afterburner? Wrong! material upgrades are sometimes all you need. the difference in tensile strength as you upgrade with different grades can be well over 200,000 psi between the low and high grade.

Originally posted by 03tjmike

as far as your claim that using better material is less effective.

Less cost effective comparing the cost of an alloy axle to the cost of swapping a toy axle. Assuming that now the axle shaft is stronger that something else will break in the samurai third member.

Spend the same amount of money and upgrade the whole unit verses just the shaft.

Also, when I was referring to the axle shaft diameter, I was including the splined section. The smallest cross section is the weakest point.

About breakage of the short side in d-44's, that is common in all offset thirds.

Geometry and materials are what govern any part's "strength". Often a small changes in geometry will have a larger effect than simply upgrading the materials of construction.

03tjmike, you seem to be in the axle industry. What do you do?

Jim

Well, we've taken a nice tangent away from the original intent of this thread. My original intent was to let someone who was talking about machining some flanged axles out of a 180lb. piece of 5" o.d. bar stock worth about $130.00 know that there was a better way with what we already offer for sale. As far as whether they'll be bulletproof with 35's, I'm sure someone will test that as well before it's all over. The point that 03tjmike made was that a substantial improvement can and has been made for the majority of Samurai drivers that run a 31"- 33" tire in off road situations. Why convert to a cross breed model axle if you can solve most problems with a bolt-in? If you need a D44 or 60 in a sammy, PBB or not, you're definitely in the minority.

i've been known to dabble in the oe and aftermarket side of the industry. :skull:

Originally posted by CALMINI Products Inc
Well, we've taken a nice tangent away from the original intent of this thread. My original intent was to let someone who was talking about machining some flanged axles out of a 180lb. piece of 5" o.d. bar stock worth about $130.00 know that there was a better way with what we already offer for sale. As far as whether they'll be bulletproof with 35's, I'm sure someone will test that as well before it's all over. The point that 03tjmike made was that a substantial improvement can and has been made for the majority of Samurai drivers that run a 31"- 33" tire in off road situations. Why convert to a cross breed model axle if you can solve most problems with a bolt-in? If you need a D44 or 60 in a sammy, PBB or not, you're definitely in the minority.

Well, machining an axel out of one piece of 5" o.d. barstock wasn't quite what I had in mind. There are such things as splined heat-shrinked fits that would rival any casted axel on the market today. The forging is obviously the way to go if you have the volume to support it. I can attest to that, considering I deal with just that same type of logic in the gun parts that I build. But, with all that said, I may very well go ahead and build my own just to be doing something with my spare time. I'm sure what you're offering is no doubt a top shelf product, but I get more satisfaction out of doing my own machined parts when I can.
The main purpose for starting this thread was to see if someone such as yourself offered this, and if not, I could see a need, but ultimately I'm making them for myself.

As 03tjmike pointed out, there is a significant amount to be gained by getting out of casted axels and using better alloys for these components. Design alone will not necessarily improve your overall product. Take a bolt-action rifle for instance. Make a Remington model 700 bolt-action out of 6061-t6 as see what happens to the poor bastard that shoots it. The only reason that the manufacturers use casted axels is for one reason, and one reason only, it's cheap!! They must make them larger than necessary to compensate for their weaknesses in material. With better material, size can be reduced or remain the same, with equal to more strength in this case.

I can see the point of getting used axels cheap and having lots of them, but frankly I'd rather spend my time wheelin, rather than swapping axels in the mud! For a little over a hundred bucks, that's worth it in my opinion.

By the way, do your axels have any warranty on them at all?

Originally posted by bluezuked


By the way, do your axels have any warranty on them at all?

Yes they do. Since CALMINI has no control over what size tire or how much gas pedal is being used by the customer, what we can guarantee is this: Because we spent considerable time in testing, and are using accepted methods for producing the strongest part of it's size possible, we guarantee that we will replace any part that is defective in material or workmanship (machining and heat treating) and we will intently inspect any failed part to try to incorporate an improvement if we start to see failures. I believe we're well into our 2nd hundred sets of these axles with no failures. That should give you some indication of how they're doing so far.

Well, hopefully by this thread, you'll sell a few more;)

I suspected that the dependability would greatly increase by going that route. My suspicions were correct.

I've met people that could break an anvil if given the chance, but with reasonable use, I have to believe that you have a worthy upgrade. Congrats!!:D

Originally posted by Chem442
I’ve looked at from all angles, I’m going to a toy axle swap.
If someone would cut down toy axles and housings to a samurai width and make it a bolt in swap. They would sell more than they could ever make. Simple process: Cut housing, cut axles and respline, weld on new perches and make available to the public.

Um, can you say Sky Manufacturing? Click me!! (http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/)

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/images/suzuki/Toyotaoffset.jpg

I was breaking Toy stuff on 33's. They did take a MASSIVE pounding for over a year though. I already have the Toy axles and I'm going to 37's, so my solution is going to be Toy Longfields and 30 spline Chromo shafts. The fat heavy Toy rigs seem to be having really good luck with these, so I think it should work great on a light weight rig.

For everyone talking about Sammi axles upgrades....

What about the birf? You know that evil little joint that just loves to explode...that will still be attached to the stronger axles? Are people running upgraded axles just bustings birfs instead of axles or what?

Is long still doing Sammi birfs? Is there some other solution?

I dont need them obviously, but I'm curious, bec I get customers asking me for recommendations on this subject all the time.

Jim