Has anyone out there attemted to modify a P38a?

I have what I consider a good line on a '96 4.6 Range II. 90' miles, about $16'. The wehicle appears sound, but with a few things to fix, like leaking AC, disconnected door latch on inside of driver side door, broken exhaust just before last muffler, and some corrosion at the bottom of lower tailgate. With the exception of the AC, it's all DIY. This price is for back door sales from a reputed main dealer. Fixed up in the showroom it will be $6' more.

Paint and interior is fine, runs smooth, electrics appear to work.

I consider bying it and do a modest build, if for nothing else to piss some Dweb types off.

My idea is 1" bodylift, 1" spring lift, 1"+ of tricking the air suspension up, 33" wheels, spacers, 3" rubber fender flares, full skidplate and rear pipe bumper. I also think I have figured out how to maually trick the air suspension to compensate in off camber situations. Maybe lockers and geár it down, too.

Anyone done something similar, or other comments?

Originally posted by wilsby
33" wheels...


Holy BLING, dude!!! You'll be pimpin' on 33's, when every other gangsta rappa is rollin' on 24's...

24's? Well, THAT'S a thought!

So, apparently no-one around here likes the idea? I'm tempted to do it anyway, just because you're not supposed to mess with an old new Rangie.

There is a guy on the D-90 friends list with a White P38a with M-T 33"s I think, a front winch, ARBs and so forth...check it out.

You'll be a pioneer.

Check out Discoweb, a guy on the Rangie list just completed a lift-or at least, that was the case before they banned yet another of my IP addresses:flipoff2:

It was me Paul, don't flame me, but I just posted a tech article on Dweb on what I did:

http://www.discoweb.org/p38coil/index.htm

Ditch the EAS completely, it will fail sooner or later and in the worst situation.

If you insists on keeping the crappy EAS, here is a link on what someone did:

http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/airlifts.html

Good Luck.

Yeah, I found the second article on my own. I like the possibilities air springs offer, and I intend on keeping the Defender 110 for anything that resembles expedition travel. I actually considered going manual air on my D, but that project will be ditched if I get the Rangie.

I consider gas V8 and auto a good combo for complicated trails, but not an expedition setup, especially not with 90' miles on the clock.

Originally posted by AlanB
It was me Paul, don't flame me, but I just posted a tech article on Dweb on what I did:

Ditch the EAS completely, it will fail sooner or later and in the worst situation.

Good Luck.

Alan:
I didn't intend to flame you, please don't take it that way.

As for the EAS, I just completed a conversion on a '93 Classic and between the way the job went and the comments of the owner, I can't see a reason to even try to retain it. The woman who drives the truck told me she was tired of her co-workers coming in and telling her she had a flat tire!

PEace,
Paul

Well Paul, maybe she had a flat? You don't go to all steel wheels when a tire fails, so I don't think it's that outrageous to fix a leaking air spring if needed!?

Time will tell. That is, if I go ahead and buy the thing.

My idea has always been to convert to coils, 2" lift, a little trimming, 285/75 MTRs, and front and rear TrueTracs working with the stock ETC.

No problem Paul, I was just kidding. Have been lurking here on Pirate for a while, and also find Dweb useful.

Wilsby, while on the trail, my buddy's P38's EAS dropped to its bumpstops due to an airline problem. His system was tricked to ride 1" taller and he had 32's on it. We had to put pieces of 2x4 lumber between the frame and bumpstops for him to get out, and he was bouncing around. I strongly suggest converting if you are going to use it on the trail.

Does the Rangie have the same wheel bolt pattern as the Defender?

Originally posted by wilsby
Well Paul, maybe she had a flat? You don't go to all steel wheels when a tire fails, so I don't think it's that outrageous to fix a leaking air spring if needed!?


First off, the vehcile settled so far that it did appear to have a flat tire. One of the air springs had already been replaced.

If someone comes to me and asks to have something done that is within the bounds of reason, who am I to question it? It is their truck and their money (soon to be my money).

Air suspension can and does fail making it uncomfortable at best to return home where it can be fixed. My coil springs do not suffer from this.

Nope, different bolt pattern.

As for springs failing, so do coils and leafs. A few meters of air line and som quick connects weight only grammes in the tool box.

I would find it easier to understand if people went to manual air valves, which is what I planned to do on the Defender before this truck surfaced.

Over here, a lot of the Formula Offroad guys run air springs, and that is about the most extreme offroad machines you can imagine.

edit: Paul, of course you perform what the customer asks for, within reason. That doesn't automatically make it the optimal solution for every use, however. I have broken both front springs on a passenger car. That was scary!

I applaud your enthusiasm for the EAS, but for me, its just one thing less to worry about while wheeling.

My previous 95 4.0se had numerous EAS problems, and I got tired of coming out to the garage or parking lot with it sitting on its bumpstops or leaning to one side. Plus I never took that one off-road. You might also have problems that only a dealer or someone with a testbook/other means to reset or clear EAS faults. I believe motorcarsltd sells a valve block system that you can manually adjust each airspring. Something like that may be the way to go, because if you get an EAS fault, you may drop to the bumpstops or the system will freeze in the current mode.

One of the trucks I work on has four schrader valves at the pump! The owner was on vacation when the EAS failed, $200 later at the dealer, he was on his way again... Another 100 miles down the road, another failure, towed it to the same delaer, paid again... When it failed next, he went with the valves.

If going the manual route, I wouldn't even bother with solenoid valve blocks, but go with true manual valves from Clippard or a similar source.

I don't want to second guess your design decisions, but air suspension is one of the things that I find attractive with P38a. My tricked Defender is not a perfect highway cruiser.

The Defender will be for any travel to remote areas. Ironically, it has something like 100 feet of air lines in it, feeding vacuum to the brakes, EGR and dual action diff lock actuators, as well as venting the axles. So far, so good, but I should probably get some spares.

Getting rid of the air springs is definatly the way to go, you'll be kicking yourself in the head when you blow an airline on the trail. Sure its a quick fix, but a very avoidable problem.

The local LR shop http://www.roverspecialist.com that I work at on weekends did a conversion from air springs to coils on a 96 RR, using the kit from AB. It turned out really nice and the ride was still very comfortable. It gave the truck about a 1" to 1.5" lift and looked very well balanced with a set of 265/75/16s. If I find some pics I will post it up.

Well, there are obviously many design options for the suspension ;-)

Any thought on the other stuff; body lift, skid plate design, and replacing the rear spoiler/bumper with a pipe bumber and some sheet metal to bounce on?

How much rubber can you run before you have to cut metal? I have seen the stuff on rangerover.net, but I want at least 33"
Anyone using wheel spacers? Are steel wheels available?

It's not comfort thats the drawback of coils (or even leafs, but that is arguable).

It's the dual purpose of a non-trailered off-roader. In order to clear decent sized tyres you need a good lift.
A well lifted truck is NOT well-behaved on the road, comfy perhaps, but that's for D-web :flipoff2:

Air suspension gives the possibility to lift when needed (i.e. trail) and then lower it when going on tarmac, to get somewhat better handling.

Blowing a line is in my view NOT a strong argument. Lines seldom blow and it's an easy fix.

Valve block, compressor and sensors are pro'lly more reasonable and troblesome error spots.

A friends '91 LSE has a problem somewhere in the valve/sensor region. If he pulls the ECU and hardwires the valves he can get the ride height he needs. It is now booked for dealer diagnostics...


Tobias

I am running BFG Mt/Km 265/75/16 which is about 32" with no problems. I think with a 33" tire you may have some rubbing problems on the front lower body plastic sill piece when the wheels are turned and the suspension is articulating. You could easily trim them. I don't think you will need to trim metal. In the back, you should have no trouble running 33's or need to do any trimming if you have enough lift, I have 3.5" in the back and looks like I can easily fit a 33 with no problems. AB sells steel wheels for the P38, $99 each.

The rims look good. I might want 8" wide though. Anyone found that? 265/75-16 is what I run for street tires on the Defender. I would want one step up, so it's either 255/85-16 or someting wider, like 285/75-16 or 305/70-16.

Wheels:
I bought steel take offs from a disco 2 in England at 30 punds each.
You can look at them next weekend, hopefully.
7 inches, but at that price have someone widen them.

Tobias

Wish me luck, I bought it today. I guess it was in the cards, since I actually bought a set of winter wheels for it yesterday. .:flipoff2:

Anyway, first step is to get it to pass "Bilprovningen", which I guess is MoT/Smog ++. Then we'll see how far it will get modified.

And yeah, I'll keep the air suspension. Hell, it's OBA with some modest plumbing!

That's great, we need more people modding the P38, keep us updated on what mods you come up with. I still say the EAS has got to go, its a nice new novelty now to be able make the thing go up and down, but you will soon grow to hate it once it faults and you are left on the bumpstops.

We'll se about the EAS. I may go manual control if it gives me trouble, but I think the bellows will stay. I plan to stay close to civilization, it that is what Sweden is, and never go beyond 1000km from home with it. I should be able to get it home one way or another if it breaks.

As for the EAS, I just completed a conversion on a '93 Classic and between the way the job went and the comments of the owner, I can't see a reason to even try to retain it. The woman who drives the truck told me she was tired of her co-workers coming in and telling her she had a flat tire

Paul, now I'm at a luxury to compare a RRC on OME HDs and another on air springs - guess what, air springs rock. nearly in every respect (except for reliability, of course). So if there was any effort I could do towards improving reliability of EAS as opposed to swapping them out, I'd go this route.

peter

You can improve the reliability of the EAS. Buy an AiRock airbag controller. It is self contained with programing and self diagnosis. Seems the best soltion except forthe cost. 2500. Less then an expensive airbag system repair at LR dealer though.

Jim Pendleton

aul, now I'm at a luxury to compare a RRC on OME HDs and another on air springs - guess what, air springs rock. nearly in every respect (except for reliability, of course).

i think it's a matter of preference, really.

if the rrc was running HD's and no bolt-ons they will ride rough. lotsa folks get the HD's over mediums expecting to add sliders, winch, bumpers etc. and live with a bit harsher ride while their funds build up.

At least on a 95 classic with airbags, I thought the damn thing was going to knock my teeth out, and it didn't really flex for sh*t in my opinion. P38's might be a totally different beast tho -

As the vehicle I converted is driven by an English woman who has no intentions of driving off-road, I used stock Rangie springs (green stripe in back, blue stripe in front), I doubt the ride will have been negatively impacted.

These folks are really nice (although they didn't bring me any goodies from England when they went there last month) and have an almost begruding attitude toward their truck. I suspect it may be something of a security blanket for them to remind them of Merry old England (they are still subjects and apparently have no intentions of becoming naturalized).

Given the circumstances, I find it difficult to disagree with their decision to go to coil springs.

I'm a big fan of reliability (yet I continue to buy more fo these trucks).

well, my 89 RRC with OME HD has ARB front bumper, and 95 with EAS is stock.

I believe airbag suspension can be made superior to coils for off-road use; a little more creativity is needed. Guess the controller and valve body have to go, and be replaced with something else. The pump - I found many of these small-volume, 200+psi pumps in Cadillacs and even Buicks with ride height controls.

peter

superior by what criteria? flex? load handling? etc.

have you noticed much of a difference in wheel travel with the system in extended mode? have you modified the ride-height sensors, or had the NSR on the trail much? just curious - not trying to give you a hard time.

the one place I've always thought air-bags could shine is with side-to-side control; i.e. the ability to air up the downhill side and deflate the up-hill side to balance out the rig.

Until stock EAS systems become as reliable as a coil spring suspension, I'm sticking with coils. You can carry all the spares, air lines, valve blocks, independent inflation valves, etc. you want, but my P38 with coils will be chugging along while you are on the trail fixing it.

Can you lock the center diff on a P38?

Originally posted by jbt
Can you lock the center diff on a P38?

The '96 I worked on last week appeared to have an LT-230 transfer case with CDL.

Same shifter as my '95 Disco

really? I thought all P38's used a BW viscous unit? (just slightly different than for the classics)

Originally posted by SeaRover
really? I thought all P38's used a BW viscous unit? (just slightly different than for the classics)

Been wrong before, might be again:flipoff2:

THe P38's all have a viscous coupling in the transfer box which will lock up automatically

Its not manually controllable.

THe P38's all have a viscous coupling in the transfer box which will lock up automatically

Its not manually controllable.

Sorry for the grave dig, but has anybody yet replaced the VC in the P38 with a locking dog?

I'm running a modified EAS system, w/ 33" KM2s. It takes some work to do right, but I currently have very little rub in the wheel wells, and good flex (estimate ~900 on the 20deg ramp).
I've run problem free for close to a year now.

Now I'll be the 1st one to admit that switching to coils is easier, and will almost never fail on you. But the P38 was not designed around coils, and it seems as if all the conversion vehicles will have the rear springs hang loose at full droop (not something I feel is right).

I also feel the air bags maintain a more even contact pressure at the wheels during articulation, I have no proof though. I also really like being able to drop it to highway profile for better highway stability as I don't run a sway bar.

When I'm wheeling I usually run it a standard height as it feels like it flexes better, and use high profile only when needed (rarely).

Here are some pics from the Montrose rally, I was running 32" tires then, and I've done some further mods since: http://forum.solihullsociety.org/cphoto/thumbnails.php?album=142