Here she is...

Here are some shots of what it can do.

Inside the car

another, not the best of pics

Sweet bender, Fatboy!

I guess you guys are unbiased when it comes to work, eh?

A four door race car. HAHAHAHAHA!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Funny stuff.

Nice bender though :D

Phil

You guys suck!! :D :flipoff2:
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Very nice bender though.... How much $$$$$$ did that beast cost:eek: ?

Gotta pay the rent somehow huh guys....:flipoff2: Nice bender though. I hope you won't be "specializing" in "poser" rigs..... :p :p

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
A four door race car. HAHAHAHAHA!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Funny stuff.

Nice bender though :D

Phil

Someone doesnt get Speedvision. Been 4drs in Ralley racing since the mid 80s.


Almost forgot Great work guys looks sweet

nice bender, ah, Bender. If you get the feeder bed for it, make sure to get the 20 footer, for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Shaker
Gotta pay the rent somehow huh guys....:flipoff2: Nice bender though. I hope you won't be "specializing" in "poser" rigs..... :p :p

No shame in do'n a Ralley car, Ralley Kicks ass!!!!!some of the best drivers in the world IMO.....

Poser? It's get'n raced next weekend in it's first international Ralley.... If that's a "poser", what your idea of "Get'n it":flipoff2::D:D:D

must be nice to have unlimited funds for a bender$$$$$$$$$$

Don't know about "unlimited" funds, But I do know about bust'n ass in the shop for years and save'n ALOT of alum. cans to pay for it!!.....lol

Nice new Bender TB!!

What class is that Lancer running in? Just curious about the bolt in and lack of side protection? Not in any way a rip on the design or work, It's pimp as always. Just curious about the rally class.

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Don't know about "unlimited" funds, But I do know about bust'n ass in the shop for years and save'n ALOT of alum. cans to pay for it!!.....lol

Bob's just jealous. :D:D:D

id be jelouse to if i started out using my winch to pull teh bender handle, he he! sweet looking wammy jammy tubey dealio thingamijig! jiMMy

Lance (the O.G. Fatkid) Are you gonna be able to make it to the Hammaz on the 19th??
If your do'n the ride along, We can race our Honda on the lake bed... lol:skull: (93 3dr Civic):D

hell ya i'm jealous
:D

Bolt in's are a pain in the ass!!!

Both cars are gonna be crush'd at the end of the year, so they wanted the cages removeable....
The "door" bars can be no higher than 2" above the seat bottom per Regulations.

These cars, because they are not/were not sold as a prodution unit here in the states, can't be run in the open event...

These two cars are gonna be run in a "Super Stage" close course...
IF MitZ Likes what they see, they are going to sponsor a Celebrity Ralley and we "Moto-Masters" are going to be contracted to build a bunch more of um....$$$$$$$$$$:D:D:D

Originally posted by Patman
Nice new Bender TB!!

What class is that Lancer running in? Just curious about the bolt in and lack of side protection? Not in any way a rip on the design or work, It's pimp as always. Just curious about the rally class.

They are Production class and prodution GT..
As far as side protection... SCCA is really kinda wierd about how they struture their classes, and can be VERY picky about things....
The Back seat has to be there and all the trim must be in car..
It has to be just like it rolled of the showroom floor... Hell, they even tell you where you can and can't put the stickers....

The "door bar" can't be more than 2" above the bottom of the seat, and is Recomend'd that it be at the door sill level....

Alot of the cars running are "Bolt in"... There are VERY FEW people who do SCCA cages here in the states, because they are so picky... And there are so many diffent types of of cars, MOST people order them from overseas where Ralley is BIG TIME and bolt um in ......

When I say "Bolt in", it's more like "BOLT IN" every joint has to be cross bolted at 90* on 1" and 1.5" space'n... No less than 4 bolts per joint....
To give you an idea there are OVER 70 bolts in that cage:eek: :eek:

Nice work guys:) I wish I was closer to Ridgecrest, I need some cage work done and I'd like to keep the $$ in the Pirate 4x4 family.

Like I've said before, ANYONE on the PBB will get a SMOKE'n deal.$$$$...... (okay maybe not EVERYBODY....DRM) ...lol :flipoff2:

Once again, it's all thanks to you guys we're doing what we love....

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
Nice work guys:) I wish I was closer to Ridgecrest, I need some cage work done and I'd like to keep the $$ in the Pirate 4x4 family.

its far its like 3-4 hours, we need to rent a duoble trailer and go down there in Jan or Feb :D

"bring it"....lol

Mark, I SOOOOOOooooooo can't wait to cut your junk up!!!!!....*rub'n my hands together* :evil:

Are ya ready for the EB Bronco part II?? ROTFLMFAO!!:D:D:D

Yeah??? :flipoff2: TB....


Mines still in peices....... :flipoff2:

curious as to what method you used to bolt the frame together. I want to make a nice fitting one for my car also but obviously the big problem is getting it in after its done. Do you feel the bolt in method is strong enough.

Thanks,

arndog

D Heep, when are ya gonna bring that POS down to the shop?? TDS isn't that far away....!!!

Originally posted by welndmn


its far its like 3-4 hours, we need to rent a duoble trailer and go down there in Jan or Feb :D

I'm game too! Make that a triple trailer... :flipoff2:

A Dawg...

There are some very good points for using a bolt in cage, and if built right can be just as strong as a weld in...

One goog thing aboout a bolt in, you only have to "tack" it in place when in the cab, than you just unblot it, take it out, and weld it out side the rig.... so no buring up the headliner:D

And in doing so, you can get a weld ALL THE WAY AROUND the tube...
No matter what anyone tells ya, if it's welded in the cab, you just can't get to some spots!... And if you can, than the cage doesn't fit very tight.... Do ya see my point?

IMO, .120 wall, 7" slip collars, 3/8" bolts at 90*, and grade 5 or better hardware should be your min.

** REMEMBER to leave enuff room to slide the collar 3.5" to one side of joint or the other, so it'll fit togther easy....

Nice looking work. I wish I were out west so I could take a look at your work in person seems to be very well enginered. Keep up the good work and congrads on the new bender

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Lance (the O.G. Fatkid) Are you gonna be able to make it to the Hammaz on the 19th??
If your do'n the ride along, We can race our Honda on the lake bed... lol:skull: (93 3dr Civic):D

Still gotta talk to the "boss". :D

What years your "ricer"? Everybody bags on the "ricers", but 36mpg @85-90 is the only way to go....lol

Maybe I am missing something. But I will be the a$$hole engineer with safety goggles on. But, the front bends of the cage cannot possible be left like that. Are there other gussetts I don't see? This will crumple in any roll-over. Same problem I have with M.O.R.E.'s design for their bolt-in TJ kit. Just asking, not trying to start a grudge match but I would not put my name to this for anything.

Ohhhhh. Here we go again......:rolleyes:

Dear Mr. Engineer....

How many cages have you built?
Have you ever even rolled a vehical?
Have you ever even weld'd?

The cage you see, HAS been CERTIFIED by an SCCA stewart...

Since you are an "Engineer" and have such a welth of knowledge, explain how you would have done it...

NOW, you can't cut the dash, you need room to steer, you can't cut anything, you need to get to the door handles....


You have the cab+Cage so it's NOTHING like a TJ.... so you can't compare the two.....

not being an ass, you just tell me how a "pro would do it"...

Oh no, he didn't.... Oh yes, I think he did.... :bender: went and and asked somebody how :massey: deez skills was....

:) and let the games begin.:)

Originally posted by Tin Bender

The cage you see, HAS been CERTIFIED by an SCCA stewart...

All I can say for this is DAMN!

Since you are an "Engineer" and have such a welth of knowledge, explain how you would have done it...

Well certainly not an "S" design. It will crumple, that is why I cannot believe it was CERTIFIED. Look in any damn design book, and look up crumple design criteria. This is what pisses me off, I said "Am I missing something?" Then you answered some of those Q's with the next statement below. I did not know that.

NOW, you can't cut the dash, you need room to steer, you can't cut anything, you need to get to the door handles....

So you sacrifice safety for just having a cage? Is it just for the sake of having one and then you can race?


You have the cab+Cage so it's NOTHING like a TJ.... so you can't compare the two.....

Didn't compare the 2, Said it was the same reason I did not like theirs too. It has a bend that would crumple if flipped on it's lid.

not being an ass, you just tell me how a "pro would do it"...

Don't recall saying I was a pro. And I don't recall having to roll a vehicle to make you a designer of cage. I have been doing structure design for 6 years now. I think I can voice an opinion when i see something I would not like in my vehicle. That is why you put the pics up didn't you. To hear what others have to say?

Oh. Why do I even try.....:rolleyes:

This "I'm an engineer" thing has been beat'n into the ground over and over and over, and over.....


It doesn't take an engineer to see that a straight bar would have been stronger. What pisses me off is that you actually think that your telling me something that I don't already know.....

I'm trying to picture you sitting there get'n excited, think'n that you were gonna drop your wealth of un-educated knowledge....

It's kinda funny that your ego is big enuff that you would actually say that you would have done it differently without knowing ANY of the design limitations......

I was serious about "how would you do it"... By all means, if you can do better, you should!!! (Seriously) There is allot of money to be made and your missing your call'n...



all that aside, I would bet you my life, that that cage would support well over 6k lbs of dead weight. that in conjuntion with the roof of the car itself would support well over 20k...

Please explain how increasing the strength, makes it just for looks?

You for one should know that you can’t even begin to “design” or “engineer” something before you know the perimeters and limitations that are give’n to you….

NEXT!!!!:D:D:D

I don't have my SCCA handbook near me and I also don't know what class that car runs in. BUT I can tell you that they have some screwed up rules. That cage is more to help with the rigidity of the roof in a roll over and not designed or SCCA certified to be flipped over 20 times like the stuff the Tinbenders make for rockcrawling. A buddy of mine has a mustang convertible that he had to put a roll bar in to compete. It's only a hoop over the front seats with 2 bars that go back to the rear seat. It is SCCA certified also. Would I want to be in the car in a rollover? Hell no. But they are not expecting these cars to roll over either.

It's safer than nothing. And that is what some classes require. Bring your helmet and go!!


Originally posted by bertha
Blah, blah blah blah blah

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Oh. Why do I even try.....:rolleyes:

Tell me about it.


It's kinda funny that your ego is big enuff that you would actually say that you would have done it differently without knowing ANY of the design limitations......

Sheesh, listen up, I said, " Am I missing something?" There was no story accompanying your post about design criteria was there?

I was serious about "how would you do it"... By all means, if you can do better, you should!!! (Seriously) There is allot of money to be made and your missing your call'n...

You have no idea how bad I would like to have my own shop :( :(


all that aside, I would bet you my life, that that cage would support well over 6k lbs of dead weight. that in conjuntion with the roof of the car itself would support well over 20k...

Send the specs with equations over to me. I'll double check for ya.


You for one should know that you can’t even begin to “design” or “engineer” something before you know the perimeters and limitations that are give’n to you….

Once again, send me your calculations.

Your kinding right....

I don't know you from jack.... Why would I need or even want your "seal of approval"......:rolleyes:

For those of you who don't know me, I am very intersted on how other people who actually wheel design and fab their own rigs...Infact i've crawl'd all over alot of your rigs:D:D:D


I'm sorry for the outburst's, but the single track thinking of some people just bugs me....

This is so pointless. Never will you see my way and vice. Nor will I agree with everything you do and vice. A simple way to settle this. Do your calc's and show me the $$$$. I will buy it then. Otherwise, later to this thread.

Oh and MattS, I got your Blah, blah, blah, blah, right here :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :D

If you would not post inside someone elses's quote then I would not have had to fill that in. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by bertha
This is so pointless. Never will you see my way and vice. Nor will I agree with everything you do and vice. A simple way to settle this. Do your calc's and show me the $$$$. I will buy it then. Otherwise, later to this thread.

Oh and MattS, I got your Blah, blah, blah, blah, right here :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :D

DRM... Is that you?

Now that was a LOW blow. LOL

Originally posted by Whitewater
DRM... Is that you?

Ohhhh Don't go away mad punkin.....

Your right, THAT BAR WOULD BE STRONGER STRAIGHT.
There is no argument there... We agree... Same side... One in the same...


BUT you can't make it straight because of LIMITATIONS give'n.
Hence BENT BAR.... Stronger than without.. More beefy... More better...

Originally posted by welndmn


its far its like 3-4 hours, we need to rent a duoble trailer and go down there in Jan or Feb :D

3-4 hours isn't bad. I thought it was a lot further. I'll kick in for a double trailer. That would be sooo coool:smokin:

Let me know, But I better check with Bertha to see if it's okayeeee......:skull:

Here is a shot of the corner...

Gawd DAYUM that weld look like birdshit. Has TB been letting you weld again? :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Tin Bender
NEXT!!!!:D:D:D

ohh man grade 5 bolts, don't you know the shear strenght of Grade 5 vs Grade 8, come awn
LOL hahahahahahaha, god i kill me

Mark- yeah i plan on blowing my "wad" in :bender: in like late jan or feb, he is going to do something cool, maybe an exo cage and a new bumper, but i will figure it out and pick his brain when i go down there that way he can see the rin in person, and make some calls

Kind of, he let me and then I let him...:flipoff2:

I know your out there Betha........

Here, look at it this way.......

letz say that your right, and the whole front of the car just cave's in....... your strapp'd in the seat with a five point.. your head just below the B pillar... Infact right below the corner Fatkid just posted....

IT's not gonna go ANYWHERE.... and the front will only "crush" as far as the front edge of the hood.....

the "s" bends also bend to the outside of the car and would continue to do so.....

A liitle "crush" zone if you will...

None the less, EVERYWHERE that you'll be is still protected even IF it does......

I'm a newbie and should shut up, but...

As an ME for 14 years I need to say something:
That s-curve is only "disastrous" if you put it in pure column loading. How often does this happen to to a cage? If there are side loads the picture is less clear. Side loads don't care what shape it's in, only it's total length. In real life there will be a whole mix of loads, of course.

Calculations could change my mind, but not some over-simplified vertical-load model. Better do a 3D ANSYS model, with a mix of loads. I'll betcha the S doesn't do thaaaat much.

Squarefour, you live in Palmdale? I just made a trip to Palmdale to buy a phase converter. Ever do any wheeling at the Hammers?

Don't be put off by us..... a good debate is always fun.


JUMP IN!! the water's fine!!:D:D:D:D

I can't believe you guys would turn out this kind of half assed quality work.:rolleyes: As a self proclaimed roll cage engineer;), I have attached a picture of the weak (crumple zone) in your design. Please study this picture and redesign accordingly. :flipoff2: ;)

Bertha said: That is why you put the pics up didn't you. To hear what others have to say?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Nope... FatKid posted pics of the new bender, then posted pics of what he could do with it, then pics of what it looked like in the car. Not once did he ask for an opinion. Next time, think before you give yours.

this is cooling off to much lets get on the pipe verses erw tubing vs. dom tubing. i'll start!!!!! a pipe cage is better than the best dom cage that is in the floor of your garage. and not in a rig

Originally posted by gunracer1
this is cooling off to much lets get on the pipe verses erw tubing vs. dom tubing. i'll start!!!!! a pipe cage is better than the best dom cage that is in the floor of your garage. and not in a rig


what is the difference between erw and dom tubing

dom stands for drawn over a mandrel. a mandrel is pulled through it to smooth out the tubing. now lets get everyone arguing back and forth.

lemme see if I can find the post where I went off.....lol

Originally posted by gunracer1
dom stands for drawn over a mandrel. a mandrel is pulled through it to smooth out the tubing. now lets get everyone arguing back and forth.

I know what they are let me change my question

What would make erw better for a cage than DOM

dom is erw

here, this should answer some of the Questions about "tube"....http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12322

If it pays the rent who gives a shit? Im sure it would crumple in a roll over like 20 times but who cares ? I mean if someone dies cause you fawked up on a cage who cares? what are they gonna do sew you?:flipoff2: :flipoff2: ?Im joking I think she will hold 20 times over:rasta:

i can't believe you people are so dimwitted that noone noticed the fact that there are no nut's on the friggin bolts. the damned cage will rattle apart and all occupants will die anyway. sheesh.
:flipoff2:
:confused:
ever a fan,
shon

From the little picture with the pink :) in it the bolts don't even look like they have threads!!

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Originally posted by black99
i can't believe you people are so dimwitted that noone noticed the fact that there are no nut's on the friggin bolts. the damned cage will rattle apart and all occupants will die anyway. sheesh.
:flipoff2:
:confused:
ever a fan,
shon

Originally posted by black99
i can't believe you people are so dimwitted that noone noticed the fact that there are no nut's on the friggin bolts. the damned cage will rattle apart and all occupants will die anyway. sheesh.
:flipoff2:
:confused:
ever a fan,
shon
This is very true the lack of nuts will proove to be a design flaw... And I'm an engineering student so I know about this kinda shit

First off nice bender I still have one of those old JD2's (but love it).
Second nice cage! No I am not one of those engineer but I have built lots of cages and yes I have rolled (30 launch then end over) and no personial damage, That aside.
Look at the cage at the B-post (were your head will be) and also factor in the a-post is designed for a roll and now it is backed up by a front down "S" bar and tied back to the center hoop at floor level ( this will stop colaps of the floor) This car has also been out fitted with full harness's and bad a$$ seats all to keep the driver/pass under the center of the cage. All in All very nice job and it you ned me to I will come down their and personaly drive it for a few hours and then roll it and see how it does.LOL

Originally posted by MattS
From the little picture with the pink :) in it the bolts don't even look like they have threads!!


I think cotter pins would be much safer. At least that way you could bend the ends over so they don't rattle out. :p On second thought... wooden dowels would absorb some of the shock so that may be the best idea! :cow:




Nice bender! Nice work guys! :smokin:

ummmm :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: GAWD am I in debate class or friggin comedy centeral?.
ANYWAYS
What is the bender? Rockstomper has a JD# and built a cage on my toy and I wanted a second kick to the leg and he said he couldn't get anywhere near that close of a bend. And well you beat his just by MILES!!!!!! I do think that the S is bumb but just bad ass to be able to do at all. second HOW IN THE HELL Do you thread those long ass scull killers through the cage that close to the body?

oh and grade 9 bolts are the best and here is a pic. I bent the lower bend on the harbor frieght special

Let's get the DEBATE thing outta the way first...

The "BEND" was done like that for the following reasons...

1. It need'd to be tight to the pillar, so as not to impair vision..
For those of you oh have raced, you know just how fat the A-pillar can seem....

2. It needed to have enuff room to clear when your "hand over hand" so you don't hit your knuckles...

3. Tight to the dash so you don't hit your knee's...

4. Under the dash so it doesn't "trap" your foot...

5.AND ya gotta be able to get in the damn thing...


If you were to have put it ANY other way, you would not meet the formentiond LIMITS of DESIGN....



NOW on to "COMEDY"....:D

Why am I even try'n to explain this to someone who has never even built a cage...
AND then to someone who HAS, but used a Habor freight kink-o-matic???
(nice Partridge Family paint sceme though) :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Skyetone
I do think that the S is bumb

*Bang'n my head on the desk*

You too have the same option..... You clearly have a photo shop, so why don't you show me how YOU would have done it....:confused:

Have you ever asked your self why no one is knocking on your door asking you to do cage work?
You should....:flipoff2:


And to answer your question, you can go from one bend to the next in about 3".....

NEXT!!! :D:D:D

TB you need to get some sleep my friend.:)

Yeah, I do....

:zzz:

Ok Tin,,,
Your my buddy and all... so Dont go off on me. This is a serious question that was not answered.

Why cant you go threw the dash? Are you not permitted to? Or was the customer just saying fawk it? Dont you think you could have cut the dash and gone straight threw? Or Am I nuts?

Also, all the engineers seem to forget the stock rollover strength of the car.. do the words .. "There's room to live!" ring a bell?

Stay in the drivers seat. Youll be fine. MOST of the time. And If you really want to be safe. Build a cage.

Tin,,, Please answer my questions. Thanks Just really curious why you didn't cut the dash.

Me thinks an S shaped bar is better than no bar at all...... considering that the roof is still intact and will take most of the impact. but than again I'm no engineer I just build cages! just curious TB you gonna chip the slag off that weld?:flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by BellyUp
Why cant you go threw the dash? Are you not permitted to? Or was the customer just saying fawk it? Dont you think you could have cut the dash and gone straight threw? Or Am I nuts?

SCCA reg's for the class its in.
Originally posted by Tin Bender
They are Production class and prodution GT..
As far as side protection... SCCA is really kinda wierd about how they struture their classes,
and can be VERY picky about things.... The Back seat has to be there and all the trim must be in car..
It has to be just like it rolled of the showroom floor...
Hell, they even tell you where you can and can't put the stickers....

yeah, what he said......:D

Oh yeah, and good morning!!

The cage thing has been covered thoroughly enough so I will ask this: In the bender pic, are the two mini welders stacked on the cart so you can switch from one to the other when the duty cycle kicks in in the first one?? Goddamn I kill me! Not knocking the mini's though, they work pretty good!

Originally posted by squarefour
I'm a newbie and should shut up, but...

As an ME for 14 years I need to say something:
That s-curve is only "disastrous" if you put it in pure column loading. How often does this happen to to a cage? If there are side loads the picture is less clear. Side loads don't care what shape it's in, only it's total length. In real life there will be a whole mix of loads, of course.

Calculations could change my mind, but not some over-simplified vertical-load model. Better do a 3D ANSYS model, with a mix of loads. I'll betcha the S doesn't do thaaaat much.

This guy makes sense:D

Also it seems like shit is always over built by people that have no faith in material properties. If the cage is strong enough to keep you from splattering your skull all over a rock, why would you add more material, and weight than is needed? And why would hacking up the rig for the cage be a good idea, when it isn't needed?


Bender, I don't need an answer now, but would you consider bending up a cage if I sent you a complete set of drawings, with tolerances, that I could weld in. Or are you guys gonna just stick with the inhouse jobs?

Originally posted by fatkid
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=174981
These welds suck:flipoff2: :D
What is the welder of choice you guys have....Fatkid?....TB?

Lame, if you send them, it can be done.... and we can work out any problems if they pop up...

The little guys will, and have worked fine for 120 wall... One is set up with 75/25 and the other is flux core....

They work awsome to tack stuff together when it clean(75/25) or dirty (flux)....

When it's burn time though the big boy gets fired up.....:D

Originally posted by Skyetone
What is the bender? Rockstomper has a JD# and built a cage on my toy and I wanted a second kick to the leg and he said he couldn't get anywhere near that close of a bend. And well you beat his just by MILES!!!!!!

Skye, The pic below was done with a JD2 m3 with a 2" 6.5 CLR die. I can get way closer with a 1.75" 5.5 or even a 1.5" 5" Scurves can be tricky but not impossible.
http://www.rocksharkengineering.com/db4/00392/rocksharkengineering.com/_uimages/m170.01.jpg

OH NOOOOO IT'S GONNNNAAAAAA FOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Lame, if you send them, it can be done.... and we can work out any problems if they pop up...

Cool, I'll get a hold of ya when I'm at that point.:)

My bud and I took the Cruzahs up to Lancaster a couple of years back and worked as course spotters for Rally on the RIm of the World or something like that. It was a blast, only had to winch 1 car out of a ditch (ravine). Bertha are you the same guy that picked my cage apart when I posted the roughed in pics? Good luck with the new shop TB.:D

Originally posted by syko

These welds suck:flipoff2: :D
What is the welder of choice you guys have....Fatkid?....TB?

Lincoln, SP125, SP135, and the Power Mig 200
A Thermal Dynamics Econo Pak 50 Plasma Cutter does the cutting

Hey i taken a few eng. class's, i would use only Chrome molly cause eveything else is shit! then do it like this and cut and weld the bars together because in theroy just putting them on the bender would weaken them :D LOL

Well Done Man... you fawk'n kill me...lol:flipoff2:

There is a run at the Hammerz Jan 19th... Ya gonna make it this time?

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Well Done Man... you fawk'n kill me...lol:flipoff2:

There is a run at the Hammerz Jan 19th... Ya gonna make it this time?
FWAK no, my new 38's sit about 1 inch away from the shocks (damn 5 inch BS wheels) so i need to wheels
plus i am moving right now so there goes all the free time, but my club is planning a hammer run in April

He is building roll cages not spiderwebs. LOL

Originally posted by welndmn
Hey i taken a few eng. class's, i would use only Chrome molly cause eveything else is shit! then do it like this and cut and weld the bars together because in theroy just putting them on the bender would weaken them :D LOL

The only real problem I see is that I would have gone with square tubing...duh. I gotta hand it to you guys that do good tubing work. Eric (Fat City) was attempting to explain and then show me how to use the bender, definitely only one way to learn that skill; trial and error.:D

Originally posted by fatkid


Lincoln, SP125, SP135, and the Power Mig 200
A Thermal Dynamics Econo Pak 50 Plasma Cutter does the cutting
I figure to see a Millermatic 250x in there. Thanks

Originally posted by Sloan
I gotta hand it to you guys that do good tubing work. Eric (Fat City) was attempting to explain and then show me how to use the bender, definitely only one way to learn that skill; trial and error.:D


There are some little tips that would help, but your right, it is something that is learn'd by trial and error.... If you have someone to help maybe show you things to look out for though it can help.... I have yet to met Eric, but he has my RESPECT as does Snot Clown, Bob R. and some others...VERY nice work.

Squarefour, you live in Palmdale? I just made a trip to Palmdale to buy a phase converter. Ever do any wheeling at the Hammers?

Ya, but not often enuf (~5-6 runs). If that's an invitation I'm there.

I had TinbenderYJ do some work on my heep a while ago, great guy, but I guess he's off to war, huh?

yup, haven't heard anything from him in a while though... I guess it's ome top secret goat kinda thing.:D

:flipoff2: The engineer, opinions are like assholes....everyone got one and most stink!!! The bending and welds look top notch. What brand of tube notcher are you using? Good luck!!! Your living the dream!!!:smokin:

Originally posted by squarefour


Ya, but not often enuf (~5-6 runs). If that's an invitation I'm there.

I had TinbenderYJ do some work on my heep a while ago, great guy, but I guess he's off to war, huh?

Hammers, Jan 18th-21st see ya there...:)

Originally posted by Tin Bender



There are some little tips that would help, but your right, it is something that is learn'd by trial and error.... If you have someone to help maybe show you things to look out for though it can help.... I have yet to met Eric, but he has my RESPECT as does Snot Clown, Bob R. and some others...VERY nice work.

John Hall...pretty damn good too.

so is that bender a JD or what? I don't like the design personally W/O some sort of gusset but OBVIOSLY you are not designing it you are BUILDING IT!! Can't believe that you didn't bite on my grade9 bolts :D . Um as far as design fawk em and make em crawl in through the back seat. why isn't there a windshield bar? I also wonder how in the hell you get the header bolts in. looks hella tight.

Originally posted by Skyetone
but OBVIOSLY you are not designing it you are BUILDING IT!!

I have to ask what exactly this is supposed to mean?


The Design or "Engineering" in this case was done to fit within the limitations of the rules and available space. From a driver stand point there is nothing worse than a poorly designed cage, that interferes with your vision and/or mobility.

Sure the cage could have been built stronger, but within the rules of the SCCA (which from personal experience can be FAWKED) and allowing for a non obtrusive fit, I'd love to see anyone with a better design.

It kills me the amount of "engineers" that fail to remember that you have to engineer it for the application.

IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ROLLING DOWN A ROCKY RAVINE, THEN IT DOESN'T NEED UMPTEEN HUNDRED FEET OF TUBE TO MAKE IT SAFE ENOUGH AND STRONG ENOUGH FOR ANYTHING THIS CAR WILL EVER SEE.

In a perfect world the front kickers should go through the dash in direct line with the A pillar and the drivers line of sight. It should also be Tied into the pillar with braces, and the two kickers should be joined with a crossbar inside the dash, and then there should be braces that go from the apex of the bend (at the top of the windshield) down to the door bars, and, and, and....But it's not a WRC car!!:D

A good friend of mine is in Rallye stuff and has the full list of rules for cages in production (as well as other) classes. I'm not an expert, nor have I read them carefully (more like a quick skim).

From what I understood the cages in production class are meant to protect around the drivers head and the entire cage is set up for that purpose. Remember, these drivers are strapped into the seat so tight that they usually can't move more than a couple inches (completely different than in our sport where we lean in and out of the body/caged area).

Considering that most of these cars have cages built into thier architecture, they hardly ever weigh more than 2500 pounds, all glass is usually replaced (or safety glass), & the fact that the drivers head never gets within 12" of the steering wheel, the front windsheild area isn't a huge concern. Around the driver's head is. I think I see it in these pictures, there are a number of straight (non-bent) braces that start and the driver side center hoop and tie it to the lower passenger side and the rear section of the cage.

The chances of this guy getting hurt in a high-speed roll-over is slim-to-none. Personally I think its a very well set-up cage for this style of racing.

My .02

My point is exactly as stated. He is payed to build a cage to fit to the particular application and specifications. Thats exactly what he did. I know if someone came to me and said for XXXX # dollars I want you to build it exactly like this, I'd say YES SIR!!. I still wanna know about the bolts. I am also guessing the tubes hit to each other inside the sleaves? I was wondering where you get the sleaves cuz it would be nice to have a partial unboltable exo-cage. So you could drive on the streets most of the time then bolt in the rest for the fun times off road.

John Hall...pretty damn good too.
I'll have to second that. Even though he doesn't get the credit he deserves by most people.:rainbow: boy

sleeving :D

it's just ID tubing to go over the OD cage. No biggie. cut to fit...drill holes...balammmm! :D


HEY TB AND FK! you guys are big pimpin'!!!!! I envy your shop and quality of work and hope someday I can work on cars w/ 4 cyls too :D j/k

awesome work!

The sleaves

main tube is 1.50" x.120 OD
sleave is 1.75"x.120 OD

now imagine subtracting the thickness of the both walls from the 1.75" tube, and you are left with a Inside diameter of 1.51" that allows you a .01 gap. Fits kind of nice.:flipoff2:

No really, ya the tube touches on the inside of the sleaves, build your pieces like normal and then cut them and add the sleave, next drill your holes. The fit is so close though the first time you take a hit I doubt it's going to ever come apart.:)