http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1771371&a=13845616

Sorry for the ugliness but I was in a hurry to get it done in time for a JV run and things like paint and knocking off slag/splatter had to wait.

Things I did that I haven't heard of anybody else doing:


Raised engine 1" on one side only to effectively clock xfer case up.

Wrapped cat. conv. in fiberglass header wrap to cut down on hot floorboard syndrome, esp. since it is now tucked in tighter. So far so good, nothing's caught fire.

U-shaped strap for tranny mount using poly body mounts on each side of tranny bolted to skid. Eliminates rubber stuff underneath trans, just 1/4" metal and bolt heads.

2-link traction bar. I realize ladder bars work fine, but mine looks better on paper:) Little dwg shows that springs can travel (not just articulate) up/down without (much) distortion caused by links. Front mount is attached to skid, and back is bolted to spring through the u-bolts, so it can all be easily removed if it doesn't work out.

I kept the D/S angle less than 25deg, which onetoncv sez is the magic #.
It's a YJ with SM420, BTW.

your right, them weld look pretty ugly :)

i'm not sure about that design, looks to me like somethings going to break when you get to flexing.

i do wish i had a flat skid plate like that............

Your welds look like crap, but aside from that how is the suspension gonna flex?
With the 2 separate links for the anti-wrap, you left no way for the axle to move as the suspension moves.

I dig the flat t-case. I cant wait to build one for mine... As far as the traction bar setup goes, I looks like a decent design but I think you should have putin right next to the center of the diff.. It might end up binding during flex. Did you put one of those setups on each side or just one????

Very interesting design keep us informed on how it works.

Looks like crap and how will it ever move when you flex???:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :rainbow: :rainbow: use a shackel!!

nice to see someone try something new!!! How does it work? I've thought about this before but thought it would take away ground clearance but that looks to work well

Originally posted by Jeepmangled87
Looks like crap and how will it ever move when you flex???:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :rainbow: :rainbow: use a shackel!!

Come Awn.... Give the guy a break, who knows it just might work, if you can't be constructive.... Be Quiet !!

Nice to see somebody stepping out of the mainstream and doing something different. Keep us posted..

Interesting. The only things I would have done would be make the links longer and get rid of the T shaped mount. With the short links and the position on one side depending on how much flex you get it could lead to a rear steer affect. But if you are not getting huge amounts of flex maybe you won't notice.

That is why the ladder style ones with the shackle are popular, it allows the shackle to open and let the springs droop.

That is what I plan to use on mine.

The pics are small so I really can't tell if the welds are bad or not. I have seen pretty looking welds break and booger welds hold so just looking at the slag does not give anyone room to complain.

Even is it does not work I give the thumbs up for trying!!

So how does it flex?

How's the rear steer affected by it?

hey cool somebody who's welds look worse than mine. :flipoff2:

Wow, I dont know where to start.

Well, it's great you are taking some wacks at it. I like the flat pan, but the t-arm has me puzzled.

I have a sneaky feeling it will be ripped of with the first good speed bump. When you compress the suspension, like from going over a big bump, your axle will move to the rear, and at the same time, the pinion will want to move downward. Now, the top bar is resting at about the center of its arc, meaning any movement up or down at the bar, will effectively make the length of the bar shorter. With the the axle moving to the rear, and the pinion moving down, with the axle moving up, and the bar trying to move up with the axle, but down at the same time because the pinion is moving down, how is that not gunna break? Crap, I just got :confused: . Now the lower bar is parallel with the top bar, so it is going to always want to move forward as well, because it too is resting at the center of it's arc. What is going to let the axle move rearward? Guess it would work ok if it does not rip the brackets off or break the bar. I think it would just put a nasty bend and a bunch of pressure on the spring if it holds up.

That idea would work ok for coils, or double shackle. But then it would be a four link anyway. I could be a dope(pretty good chance of that), but I don't see how it would work with a spring that has a solid mount point. The reason most folks use a ladder with a shackle is because the work super-duper good.

Let us know how it works!!!!!! I hope I am just plain ass wrong!

Oh, and never mind Camo. Your welds still look better. :eek:

Alright, ahemm, I'll try to respond to all that.

Did Outer Limits, no incidents, flexed OK, and they are brand-new springs. (Test drove it for about ten minutes on the street, then dragged it off to JV, how's that for confidence!) My cousin took a few pix, but naturally none showed me flexing much. I uploaded them, anyway (same place).

Articulated about 70% of max using my 2-stacked-car-ramps placed-on-diagonal-wheels trick, everything seemed fine. I guess I should take some articulated pictures. Also, when you jack up the rear end, BOTH rear wheels droop pretty good. This is where it should be better than a ladderbar.

About the welds, well,:flipoff2: Remember, those are stick welds, not some :rainbow: little MIG beads. At least they have good penetration (I've ground a few off in my day).

The intent of the design of the (single-sided) 2-link was to follow as much as possible the natural motion of the spring in an unrestrained SOA. Thus it follows there should be no effect on turn-in, anti-squat, etc. BTW leafs do have turn-in, and I hear have actually been designed for kind of poor-man's 4-wheel steer on some leaf-sprung sports cars (a while ago).

The motion of the spring is basically an arc that flattens, and the length of the arc doesn't change. Since the arc is fastened to the frame in the front, the axle will travel forward as the spring arches. The axle will also not rotate more than a degree or two, as the shackle in back moves the rear end of the arc up/down less than 1/2' or so. If you design the system such that the links are parallel to each other AND the spring in it's FLAT state, and that the ft/rr pivots are exatly above each other, all you have to do is choose a link length that best follows the axle path.
I started out with long links (on the computer) like you usually see, but they didn't allow the axle to move forward ENOUGH as it drooped. This would have caused the front half of the spring to be stretched out of it's natural arch. I just kept doing layouts in Autocad until the motions of my simplified spring/axle and of the links matched up. I was somewhat surprised and dismayed, since the rearward location of the mounts required that "T-bar", but I was reassured some by a copy of the SAE handbook on leaf suspension design somebody gave me at work, so I went for it. Anybody want the ACAD file to check my work?

Oh, the T-bar is trailer hitch bar (2.5"x2.5"x.25") with about 1.5 ft of overlap (3ft of weld bead) to the skid (It goes fwd alongside the xfer case to the driver's side). Then I put on 2 1.5ft lengths of 3/4 stock over the welds and welded that on. (I think I got that idea from POR.)

What else...I put the rr mounts as near the pumpkin as I could without welding to it, which I don't have the skills to do (as some have pointed out:p).

I think I covered everything. This is fun, I didn't expect this much uh, "interest". The cool thing is, unlike at work, the criticisms are all good cuz the bottom line is, say it with me, it's my jeep I'll do what I want :D(wasn't that an Eric Burden tune?).


OH BTW, the flat skid didn't do thaaat much on the trail, I was a little disappointed. Not as much as, say, when I went from 33s to 35s. Hung up on bolt heads a couple times, underlining the need for slider rails around ALL protrusions ( I knew that, but lazy/in hurry...). And, if you do one, remember, it needs to be way strong. (I can't believe I dented 3/16 plate, should of went with 1/4.)

RIGHT ON!!! I like it and if it don't work in the long run cut it off, I have a hole pile of scrap from bad ideas but hey who doesn't, Oh probably all the weenies hackin on your welds, hell they probably don't even know what a stick welder is??? LOOOSERS,,,,

keep us posted...

Originally posted by MattS

The pics are small so I really can't tell if the welds are bad or not. I have seen pretty looking welds break and booger welds hold so just looking at the slag does not give anyone room to complain.


When you click on the small picture, it gets bigger. Then when you click on the bigger picture it gets even bigger.

AND, I found a major problem (I'm so proud)... you didn't put your driveline completely back together for the photo shoot. That sucker is definetly barely hanging on at the pinion. :D

hey square 4

traction bar ha been talked about enough


BUT for you flat skid, they make 1/2 inch plastic for boat trailers..

its really strong (as far as wear) it comes in different lenghts and witdhs is polyproplene or something!

we tried it on buddys skid and one person could slide it's whole jeep weight of a rock with no tires touching!!

slick!

its really strong (as far as wear) it comes in different lenghts and witdhs is polyproplene or something!

REALLY! Now that is interesting. So did you use a big sheet of it or strips?

In the interest of science, I'm finally posting pics of the 2-link flexed-up (somewhat). I had to force even this amount by chaining up the ft. susp. to limit droop. I blame the unbalanced flex on the stiffish Rubicon Express reverse-eye rears and the aged Wrangler springs on the ft. Anyway, I think it proves the 2-link/leaf will work.

Plus some piccies from the last Tinbender thing, including an unclear pic of "load range" imprint in sand from very-near-roll.
Also my in-work beadlocks.


http://members8.clubphoto.com/dion540554/682984/owner-458f.phtml

Still looking for plastic slider stuff, BTW.

very nice!
BTW ya talkin' 'bout the plastic between leafs?
anti-friction material in bulk, cut-to-fit form from Plastic Sales Southern 323.728.8309