I am really freaking out here.
We just bought our first house, a fixer upper. The people that lived in the house did not take care of it. Everything was cosmetic: Carpets, ripped wall paper, punch holes in the walls, holes in doors, etc. Plus they smoked, and the house reaked.

So, we closed last Thursday, and we need to be out of our rental by the 15th. Our plan was to remove all the wall paper, and have the walls retextured, pull the carpet, and paint on a sealant to block the smoke, all before we moved in.

Underneeth two spots of the wallpaper, there was some mold on the sheetrock. One spot was soft and when I was pulling off some wood border, my hammer went through the wall. So I pulled off some of the sheetrock to reveal tons of termite damage. A couple of the 2x4's look like binder paper. So I pulled away most of that wall, and it doesnt look good. Lots and lots of damage.

We had a clear pest report done prior to buying the house. The report showed some small damage from termites( in the eaves of the roof, etc) that was all fixed. All the damage was visible.

What can I do about this damage that is not visible? I am afraid to pull off more sheetrock and find more damage. I feel like I am going to get sick. I would think to get a lawer, but should I find out exactly how much damage there is? Should I open up every wall in the house? The house was sold without any warranty, but is there something like a lemon law with this?

Help, please.

Chris

Donno what your recourse is, but I've been fixing termite damage all summer so I can sympathize with ya ;) problem is damage hidden inside the walls is impossible to detect without looking.

I'm not clear on CA law, hell I'm not clear on TN law. We freaked out about some ants in our house, WITHOUT finding damage.

Well, since we got a clear pest report, IF there turns out to be damage, the process in our state is to sue the BONDED AND INSURED pest inspector. Ants are not always considered wood-destroying insects, but termites ALWAYS are.

Sounds like you're going to court. :(

Chris, i think under the provisions of Ca. termite inspections and the regulations under which they can and do operate, undetected structural pest damage due to inaccessable areas, is considered "Section 2" on the report. See your structural pest report, and it will have some form of disclosure stated in bold amongst all the other verbose garb surrounding the pest company's lack of liabilities on Section 2 items.

Clearly stated will also be somewhere on it, that section 2 items are deemed to be areas where infestation and potential damage does exist, however, inaccessable areas are uninspectable without removing and subsequently damaging wall-coverings, floor coverings etc., and they do not carry or imply any explicit warranty about their non-findings.

I'm currently performing $4,500 worth of Section 1 work, on my own home, that is STILL in escrow now!

Oh, and not to be a deek or nothin' -

but your screen-name here is likely what any home in Cali will have you enduring ;) :goofball:

DId you purchase "as is" or agree to this, I agree, Cali houses have to be cleared through termite inspection... Call your releator, find out the scoop... I would be pissed though...
Good Luck

First of all make sure there are no more termites around. Check the crawl spaces for tunnels. 2 types of termites. Not sure exactly what they are but one you can see flying around and the other you usually don't find until you do what you did. Make sure it's not a load bearing wall!!!! if it is suport the ceiling on both sides of the wall. Otherwise your roof might start to sag. If it has you might need some jacksto raise it. Then tear out all the rotted wood, replace, re-sheetrock, texture and paint. I know I made it sound easier than it is, but if your on a slab(no crawl space under the house) then you should be OK. But before you go through any of that trouble IF the seller knew anything about it, it may be disputable in court. The work actually might be easier than that.

Thanks guys.
And thats kinda what my thoughts are. Would it be better to pay for a lawer, or to do the repairs? The only thing I can think of of the previous owners (these people lived there for 9 years, so maybe the previous owners) knowing about it was that one spot I opened up that had some mold on it was a big patched piece of sheetrock. So, did they have damage, open up the wall, see the damage, and just close up the hole? If so, they did not disclose that, and I would need a lawer to prove.

Sorry for my rambling, but I am freeking out. Not even 1 week in.

Chris

well, the good news is it's pretty easy work all in all. And a great excuse to remodel ;) Course I had no choice but to find the bright side ;)

Disclosure is a bitch of a grey area.

You'll want to have another pest control outfit inspect it, who's on your side. Not sure about the laws surrounding disclosure, or terms of as-is non-warrantied properties however. Consult an attorney, and let the mortgage co. in on this after that, might be your best bet.

Yeah, if your not too bad with a sawzall, then you won't find this work too awfully bad. :)

How can you get a home loan without a termite inspection? I thought no bank would give a loan without one. It's Cali, if you could buy the home without a loan it must have been cheap.
Also with homes "Full Disclosure", if the P/O knew, they're liable for fixing it.

Originally posted by JeepinDoug
How can you get a home loan without a termite inspection? I thought no bank would give a loan without one. It's Cali, if you could buy the home without a loan it must have been cheap.
Also with homes "Full Disclosure", if the P/O knew, they're liable for fixing it.

Sounds like he had an inspection that didnt find the damage in the area due to the sheetrock covering it.

I'd get another professional opinion from an inspector. He should be able to tell you if this could have been noticed in the precious inspection. If there was some evidence that the previous guy should have seen, then the contract that you signed wont protect him. Anyways you should have a pest company come and gass the house so 2 birds with one stone!

Where in Sacramento did you move too anyhow? Just wondering.... :)

without trying to sound like too much of a dick...

what part of "no warrantee" didn't cover the termites?? I mean, it does suck but why is it that as soon as somebody (in california) takes a risk and loses a bit on it they want to bust out with a lawyer and make fawkers pay?

I bought my house as is last year, no termites (had it inspected twice) but every other thing that could be wrong is/was. If there was nothing wrong with it they would have offered a warranty of some type. Tuff it up, get real used to spending all your time and money at Home Depot and fix it. Or move back into an apartment where you can run crying to the landlord whenever somethings not perfect. It's wood and nails, not rocket science.

for example:
don't look too bad....

you get it apart....

ok first off you have to have really good insurance then you pack all your walls full of gun powder then .... ok thats not gunna work I guess youd better get a lawyer or start researching.

No, I am not trying to say that everything was fine and dandy without the warranty, and now that something is wrong I am upset. I am just wondering, do I have reason to belive that these people did not want to offer a warranty because they knew about this damage?
And also, I was just looking for a little support. I mean, the spots that I opened up are pretty well trashed, what are the chances that the entire house is like this? In the master bedroom the damage that I discovered is at the top of the wall, so does that mean that everything below it is ruined too? Termites have to eat up right?
If thats the case, and damage was found on the outside of the house in the roof eaves, does that mean that everything below that is damaged too? If so, wouldnt the termite inspector have known that?

I just want to make sure that everyone did their job correctly,and there is no chance that the owners didn't disclose something. And, I just wanted some people opinion that have dealt with this before of what I may be getting myself into.

Thanks again,

Chris

Originally posted by scottz
without trying to sound like too much of a dick...

what part of "no warrantee" didn't cover the termites?? I mean, it does suck but why is it that as soon as somebody (in california) takes a risk and loses a bit on it they want to bust out with a lawyer and make fawkers pay?

I bought my house as is last year, no termites (had it inspected twice) but every other thing that could be wrong is/was. If there was nothing wrong with it they would have offered a warranty of some type. Tuff it up, get real used to spending all your time and money at Home Depot and fix it. Or move back into an apartment where you can run crying to the landlord whenever somethings not perfect. It's wood and nails, not rocket science.

Then you had a shitty inspector/inspection. Sounds like he had found evidence of termites and SHOULD have looked deeper at that point. Termites don't just go away. CA is VERY picky about termites. I think this guy has an excellent chance of returning this home to the last owner or getting them to pay (or more likely the pest inspection company to pay) for damage repair.

Originally posted by scottz
you get it apart....

Ugh, that makes me want to cry.

Originally posted by Project4ever
I just want to make sure that everyone did their job correctly,and there is no chance that the owners didn't disclose something.


You based your buying the home probably somewhat on the condition correct? I'd be dang angry to buy a home that was sold to me as being a certain condition after some clown said oh we were wrong. It said it had some other damage that was repaired? Right there that should have been a clue for the inspector to keep going and search around further. Sounds like someone got lazy and didn't want to do much more then they had too in checking out the house.

BTW, you still didn't say where in Sac you live.... just wondering is all because around my area I keep seeing the termite tents go up on houses making me nervous....

Originally posted by scottz
without trying to sound like too much of a dick...

what part of "no warrantee" didn't cover the termites?? I mean, it does suck but why is it that as soon as somebody (in california) takes a risk and loses a bit on it they want to bust out with a lawyer and make fawkers pay?

I bought my house as is last year, no termites (had it inspected twice) but every other thing that could be wrong is/was. If there was nothing wrong with it they would have offered a warranty of some type. Tuff it up, get real used to spending all your time and money at Home Depot and fix it. Or move back into an apartment where you can run crying to the landlord whenever somethings not perfect. It's wood and nails, not rocket science.

you buy an engine, your told the engine is fine and a runner.

You get it and find a cracked piston, and half the valves bent.

So.. your telling me your going to take it in the shorts, or are you going to go back to the guy and demand either money to fix the problem or a refund.


This is kinda the same thing, just WAY more complicated.

(this is just one reason, I am leaning toward building a home, it's gonna cost nearly the same, at least in my area)

Originally posted by Project4ever
I mean, the spots that I opened up are pretty well trashed, what are the chances that the entire house is like this? In the master bedroom the damage that I discovered is at the top of the wall, so does that mean that everything below it is ruined too? Termites have to eat up right?
If thats the case, and damage was found on the outside of the house in the roof eaves, does that mean that everything below that is damaged too? If so, wouldnt the termite inspector have known that?



It's not a situation of "damage here, damage there, must be wasted in between" kinda thing.

The entry point of the little bastids is likely the joist rim in the master bedroom, again, it's likely they used one travel point to access the studs in the wall, (one joist, likely) and then went up the wall on one or two studs. Yep, you'll be in for a lesson on how termites get where they're going, but it's only a matter of a few timbers. Now the bummer about that is that the coverings will need to be removed for proper reinstallation of new coverings (subfloor, sheetrock, etc) .. and you'll have to create new damage just to get to the substrates.

I'm guessing the eaves damaged were localized small areas, and were fungi infested, which is section 1 and once completely removed - won't return real soon. So, likely no termites there.

I'm also assuming these are subterraineans, because drywood termites are not as prevalent as the subs. Drywoods often find attics to be the access points.

Powder Post Beetles and Dogwood termites are occassional offenders also, but not likely if your in a dry-climate area.

ChevyCaGal: Sorry, the house is in Citrus Heights off Twin Oaks.

My damage looks like those pictures, but think of a whole wall like that. And I don't even know if that is the extent of it all. Thats just what I have uncovered.

Chris

Originally posted by Project4ever
ChevyCaGal: Sorry, the house is in Citrus Heights off Twin Oaks.

My damage looks like those pictures, but think of a whole wall like that. And I don't even know if that is the extent of it all. Thats just what I have uncovered.

Chris

If your talking legal action...

PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES!!!

If you find more sections of patches, that look like the owner found something and covered it back up. get pictures prooving that.

Otherwise, it's 100% hearsay.

hey.. at least you don't have a honey bee nest in your house! :rolleyes: thank god it's a rental.

Originally posted by tipover
I'd get another professional opinion from an inspector. He should be able to tell you if this could have been noticed in the precious inspection. If there was some evidence that the previous guy should have seen, then the contract that you signed wont protect him. Anyways you should have a pest company come and gass the house so 2 birds with one stone!

That's right. And the inspector should be using an electronic device the detects moisture in the walls. Where there is moisture there is probably going to be dirt from the termites building nests. Sure sign of damage. Also walk the perimeter of the house looking along the ground. The termites will build 'mud tunnels' from the ground up the slap and under the siding (stucco, ect) I live in FL so I know all about it! Little bastards.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


you buy an engine, your told the engine is fine and a runner.

You get it and find a cracked piston, and half the valves bent.

So.. your telling me your going to take it in the shorts, or are you going to go back to the guy and demand either money to fix the problem or a refund.


This is kinda the same thing, just WAY more complicated.



Plus you add in the fact this was more then a verbal agreement. This home was inspected by someone who signed off on it that was damaged, but it was repaired and otherwise ok. This person is a professional whose job it is to certify the information they give out is correct. He was lead to think the condition was something it's not it sounds like. He also hasn't waited a year to bring this up and say btw....

Another point i forgot to mention is...

the fungus and termite ridden areas... are going to be the same locations of reinfestation, so if you keep the house... instill whatever preventative measures you can to get them from reintroducing themselves at those same spots. And they will go to those same areas, the eaves and the fungus are married to the same areas also, so now you know where to look regularly for recurrent damage.

Originally posted by Project4ever
ChevyCaGal: Sorry, the house is in Citrus Heights off Twin Oaks.

The house just down the street on my block lost their whole garage due to termites and having to rebuild. I think any of the houses here in the Sac area are prone to getting them that are older because of our weather, they thrive here.... like I said, I see the termite tents around here a lot, and I am going to be inspected here soon to be safe.... good luck to you, I hope it turns out better then it is now...

Tough call on what's less of a headache, just fix it or sueing. Next time around here's the best home buying tip I ever got: Get a good home inspection. The termite guy is usually reccomended by the broker who just wants the deal done. My termite report came back clean. I then spent $400 on a home inspection. The guy was awsome. Started on the roof and worked down. He asked me to tag along. Under the house we crawled 40ft to the far corner of the hose in 10-12" of crawlspace and found termite damage. No way in hell your going to get a termite guy to do that. He paid for himself right there. He showed me how the furnace was on it's last leg, the electrical panel was insufficient and numerous things that were not up to code. The only downside is you got a nice big list of stuff to fix instead of living in ignorant bliss.:D

Originally posted by Mondo EB
Tough call on what's less of a headache, just fix it or sueing. Next time around here's the best home buying tip I ever got: Get a good home inspection. The termite guy is usually reccomended by the broker who just wants the deal done. My termite report came back clean. I then spent $400 on a home inspection. The guy was awsome. Started on the roof and worked down. He asked me to tag along. Under the house we crawled 40ft to the far corner of the hose in 10-12" of crawlspace and found termite damage. No way in hell your going to get a termite guy to do that. He paid for himself right there. He showed me how the furnace was on it's last leg, the electrical panel was insufficient and numerous things that were not up to code. The only downside is you got a nice big list of stuff to fix instead of living in ignorant bliss.:D

Same thing I did. It helps a lot to crawl around with the guy and see first hand the positives and negative of a NEUTRAL, knowledgable party.

Check under the kitchen sink cabinet and door, and on or inside the breaker panel box outside the house. If your property had been treated for termites, the pest control company is required to leave a sticker w/the date and type of wdi(wood destroying insect) and the chemical that was used. Your lender only cares about any current active infestations of wdi (only before the closing on the property). Also, if the property had been treated before, and has damage from a previous infestation, but there are no current infestations you are SOL. Subterrainian termites will make dirt tunnels on the outside of your slab anywhere that will give them access to anything wooden inside/outside your house. Check the corners of your slab and anywhere that has fine cracks including the parts of the slab under the grass. They can also gain access through voids in the slab surrounding your plumbing inside the house. Also, rip apart some of the wood that you exposed and look for live termites. If you find some, then contact your title company and inform them of your situation. They are the ones that hired the company/termite inspector and may be liable for missing/ignoring a pre-existing condition.
I did this type of work and fumigated homes/commodoties for five years. If you have anymore questions, ask away!
JD

ok.. is this whole termite thing giving anyone else teh heebie jeebies?

I then spent $400 on a home inspection. The guy was awsome. Started on the roof and worked down. He asked me to tag along. Under the house we crawled 40ft to the far corner of the hose in 10-12" of crawlspace and found termite damage. No way in hell your going to get a termite guy to do that. He paid for himself right ther

my guy did the same thing but it was only $375(Housemaster - (916)354-1764). Like you said, worth every penny, he at least showed me what I was getting into (even though I didn't truly understand "heavy fixer" like I do now) and checked things that the termite guy wouldn't even get near.

At the same time, everyone missed all those window frames (5 of them the same or worse than that, the windows were installed wrong) and a host of other nasty suprises.

For an accurate estimate of the time and money it's going to take to fix everything how you like it, imagine the most time and money you could imagine spending and multiply by 10.