I found a website that offers rifle parts kits (less receivers) for a serious discount over complete assemble rifles. The cost of the kit and the receiver is still quite a bit cheaper than the assembled rifles.

Anyone here have experience with these kits? Are they crap?

And my last question is this: Since I can't find the same site (US) again today after hours of searching, does anyone here know of one offering similar kits? :emb::p


Hef

Try looking at shotgunnews.com or buy a copy at a local book store/ magazine place..they offer LOTS of companies that sell kits and receivers...one thing to remember though. A decent kit will probably need some work, then the price of the receiver, then the barrel needs to be headspaced by a gunsmith (usually), then if you want it to look nice you may have to have it reblued (most of this can be done by you at home), all of which brings up the finished price. One other thing to keep in mind, most of these kits are former military weapons from countries who may not be as strict on upkeep as our military is...and you cant tell if the bore is worn out before buying it....;)

The kits I found were brand new, and supposedly with just enough US-made parts to satisfy the ATF.

I wonder if those parts were made in a union shop?:flipoff2: Eh Neil?


Hef

What type of rifles were the kits for?

Originally posted by Huff
What type of rifles were the kits for?


AK47 (and variants)
AR15 (and variants)
CETME/G3
HK93/MP5
FN/FAL
MAC11
UZI


Hef

I have assembled Cetme, G3, AK, and FAL rifles from parts sets.

Some require some special tools and if you don't know what to do, leave it to a gunsmith for safety sale.

However, even if you pay someone to assemble your psrts into a rifle, you may still save a few bucks....:rolleyes:

If you want to build a rifle out of a kit you still have to buy a reciever or build one. Various rifles have different challenges in building them.
FAL- you will need headspace gauges and several other special tools+ quite a bit of time to get the gas system and timing to function right. You must add the correct number of US made parts to comply with 922R legislation, which means less than 10 foreign made parts out of a list. You will also have to make sure that it has no more than 2 evil features, which on an FAL is the removable mag and the pistol grip. Which means you need to permanantly affix a muzzle attachment, which is approved by the ATF as a non flash hider, or cut off the end of the barel and have it recrowned. The bayonet lug must be removed, along with all rifle grenade launching capabilities. Fal receivers cost anywhere from $150 for cheap ones to over $400. The cheap ones don't work very well (so I'm told). I'd consider the minimum cost for an fal build at about $550
Go Here:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php

AK-47/ 74
Go Here:
http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=19

This post will end up really long if I type all these out + I don't feel like wasting a half an hour.
For sights with kits for sale
http://www.gunsnstuff.net/index.html

http://www.centerfiresystems.com

http://www.tapco.com

http://www.interordnance.com/index.shtml

Most people who build rifles from kits only save very little money and spend a lot of time in the process, but end up with what they want and the pride of knowing they made it themselves.
Read up before you buy anything. Some parts kits cannot be built into fundtioning rifles, due to their design and the laws.
There are a lot of laws out there, make sure you know what you are doing before you start.

Originally posted by 4runner
I have assembled Cetme, G3, AK, and FAL rifles from parts sets.

Some require some special tools and if you don't know what to do, leave it to a gunsmith for safety sale.

However, even if you pay someone to assemble your psrts into a rifle, you may still save a few bucks....:rolleyes:

I have no gunsmithing tools, just ordinary automotive and carpentry/construction tools. I have a friend who used to be a USMC armorer, and he ran the rifle range over at Parris Island. So the technical skills are available to me.

If I paid my local gunsmith to build it from a kit, what do you think I'd be saving on total cost? If it's a ton I could see going that route but otherwise it seems foolish.

I'd rather not involve my local gunsmith if I'm not buying the product from him. I think he'd be a bit insulted.


Hef

Depends on what you want.
Search under 80% frames/ kits and such. there is alot of stuff out there.
Try www.kristytool.com or
www.ktordnance.com

Should give you a good start.

anyone ever buy 80% milled reciever. You can buy them on e-bay and finish milling it yourself. I guess if you buy an 80% or less complete reciever you can skip all the BATF and FLL stuff and get it shipped right to your house be cause it is not considred a reciever.

Dude - these "kits" are simply sold by smart guys making money. Kinda like the mechanic charging you $100 to change your brakes.

Do you know WHY these kits are illegal while the original weapons are not?

They do nothing "magical". Technically speaking, they are modified "just enough" to pass the checklist.

For example, the AR-15 - you could get one, and if you filled in from the trigger to the stock(essentially ridding it of the notorious "pistol grip") - you'll be taking away bullet item number 6 on the list of "banned assault weapons descriptions". And hence, your weapon is no longer banned.

I think I may have more info for ya - get ready for a lot of data.
I got this in an email from a hunting buddy a while back. Personally, I hate the fact that I don't own an AR, but you snooze, you loose. Oh well. I'll be moving out of here, hopefully soon:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For several years now, California gun owners have been living in fear of what wasgoing to happen when the Democrats regained control of the governorship. WhileRepublican Governor Pete Wilson was never really a friend of gun owners, when wespoke loudly enough, he listened, and often vetoed the more extreme gun prohibition billspassed by our Democrat-controlled legislature. Sure enough, once Democrat Gray Davisbecame our new governor, the extremists in the legislature started passing gun controlbills so quickly that even Governor Davis, after signing several of the more abusive bills,finally told the legislature to give it a rest; he wanted law enforcement to have time tocatch up with all the new laws.Manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and consumers who do business or live herein California are also having to catch up with the new laws, which are a bit confusing. Mygoal is to help you understand these new laws so that you don’t unintentionally breakthem and end up in prison.One of the bills that Governor Davis signed into law was SB 15. When it wasintroduced, it was an extreme measure that banned nearly all new sales of small handguns,and with a complicated and unusual testing procedure for the few classes of handguns thatwould still be legal. Apparently the gun control advocates in the legislature figured outthat a ban on most handguns would put the Republicans in control at the next election, soSB 15 was amended to make it far less comprehensive. Most importantly, the effectivedate of the bill was changed to January 1, 2001–you can worry about the details of SB 15this time next year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws2The more immediate problem is SB 23, signed by Governor Davis on July 19,1999. This is a very large bill (36 pages long), with a number of complex provisions thatwill have some odd and unintended consequences. Don’t think that because the law isabout “assault weapons” that it won’t affect antiques or “ordinary” guns. Because of itspoorly thought out details, quite a number of gun owners who look down their nose at“assault weapons” are at risk of committing misdemeanors or felonies.SB 23 makes it a misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail or prison, tomanufacture, import into California, keep for sale, offer for sale, expose for sale, give, orlend any “high-capacity magazine.”1(You are still allowed to possess and think abouthigh-capacity magazines.) There are exemptions for armored car companies, lawenforcement agencies (of course), and gunsmiths engaged in repair of lawfully ownedhigh-capacity magazines. Californians who leave California with high-capacity magazines,then move back in can do so without breaking the law2–though I can’t imagine that manyCalifornia gun owners who can move out would voluntarily return here.This means that you can’t lawfully sell any “ammunition feeding device with thecapacity to accept more than 10 rounds… .” That includes not only detachable magazines,but also fixed magazines like the 20 rounder for the SKS, and stripper clips that hold morethan 10 rounds. It does not include what the law calls “any .22 caliber tube ammunitionfeeding device.”3It would appear that tubular magazine .22 rifles are still lawful to sell.Just like the loophole in the federal ban on high-capacity magazine manufacturing,there is nothing in SB 23 that prohibits the sale of parts for high-capacity magazines–even1Cal. Penal Code § 12020(a)(2).2Cal. Penal Code § 12020(b).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws3all the parts. While it is clearly illegal to put the parts together under SB 23, there seemsto be nothing illegal about selling springs, followers, base plates, and the empty magazinetube!By the way, if someone comes to your table looking to buy high-capacity magazineparts–tell them the following outrageous story about the hypocrite who doesn’t want themto buy complete magazines. The author of SB 23, State Senator Don Perata, hassomething quite rare indeed–a California concealed weapon permit. Such permits inCalifornia list all the guns that the bearer is authorized to carry. Perata’s permit has threehandguns on it–all of them 15 round 9mm pistols. (When asked to defend why he is tryingto disarm the rest of us–and yet he has a permit to carry a gun–his response was that heneeds a gun to defend himself from the gun nuts.)The other part of SB 23 of interest to dealers and buyers is the definition of“assault weapon.” Back in 1989, when California passed the Roberti-Roos AssaultWeapons Control Act, one of the big problems confronting the state legislature was howto define an “assault weapon.” Many gun rights activists warned the legislators at the timethat they needed to define “assault weapons” based on their function, not by brand name.Why? Because a brand name law would be easily evaded; such a law was a waste ofeveryone’s time. If the legislators seriously believed that semiautomatic weapons were acrime problem (which they were not), then only a ban based on function would doanything.3Cal. Penal Code § 12020(c) (25).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws4Our legislators didn’t want to pass a functional ban, because doing so would affectmillions of California gun owners who support gun control (at least, if it doesn’t affecttheir gun) and would resent the absurd registration, transfer, and use limitations. Sincethe punishment for manufacture, importation, distribution, keeping for sale, offering orexposing for sale, or transfer of an “assault weapon” is four to eight years in prison,4youcan see how a broad ban would make a lot of people angry.Our warnings about what a waste of time it was banning guns by brand name andmodel were completely correct, so State Senator Don Perata vowed to ban all of the“copycat” assault weapons by adopting a functional definition in addition to the old list ofnamed guns. Perata seems to have had second thoughts somewhere along the way abouthow many guns he wanted to ban, and the bill that became law is both confusing and, atleast for most rifles, easy to work around.The definition of “assault weapon” is different for rifles, handguns, and shotguns.Just to make it more confusing, within each category, there are different definitions ofwhat makes something an “assault weapon.” A rifle is an “assault weapon” under the newlaw if it is a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that can accept detachable magazines and hasone or more of the following features: a “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneaththe action of the weapon”; a thumbhole stock; a folding or telescoping stock; a grenadelauncher or flare launcher; a flash suppressor; or a forward pistol grip.5But the law doesn’t say, “if it was originally made with those features.” So all thatis required to avoid having to register a rifle with one or more of those features–and4Cal. Penal Code § 12280(a)(1).5Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(1).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws5keeping it lawful for sale to others–is to remove the features. For many of the AR-15pattern rifles, especially Colt Sporters, which don’t have a flash suppressor, the onlyfeature that is a problem is the pistol grip. You could just hacksaw off the pistol grip, butthat’s not very attractive.At least two companies are selling pistol grip replacements to bring at least somerifles into compliance. One company, Gun Compliant Stocks (on the web athttp://GunCompliantStocks.com), sells an English-style stock add-on that replaces thepistol grip on many of the affected rifles so that it no longer protrude “conspicuouslybeneath the action.” For those of you who don’t have web access, you can mail them at1352-A East Edinger Avenue, Santa Ana, CA 92705. Phone: (714) 542-0818; FAX:(714) 542-0851.Gun Compliant Stocks.com’s Solution to SB23Atlantic Research Marketing Systems, Inc., also offers a product that gets aroundthe pistol grip problem of SB 23 (at least for AR-15 pattern rifles)–though they seem to beeither unaware of why Californians might need it, or are being unbelievably coy about it.Described as a “Quick Detach Throw Lever Pistol Grip,” it is a standard pistol grip thatcan be attached and detached rapidly. Unlike the solution from Gun Compliant Stocks,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws6this will only work if you install this before January 1, 2000, and never reattach the pistolgrip in the presence of police officers. (If you take this approach, store your rifle with thepistol grip detached. A fire or burglary might well bring your rifle to the attention of theauthorities–and you certainly want your gun in a completely lawful state.)The ARMS Solution to SB 23On the plus side, this gadget presents an opportunity to infuriate the gun controladvocates even more seriously than the Gun Compliant Stocks product, because it can berestored to the “assault weapon” form in a second or two, then made lawful just asquickly. (I keep imagining a TV ad ridiculing SB 23 where a gang member brags that hecan commit 30 felonies a minute–and we show him attaching and detaching the evil pistolgrip as fast as his fingers can work the lever.) Atlantic Research Marketing SystemsQuick Detach Throw Lever Pistol Grip can be found athttp://www.armsmounts.com/new.html. ARMS is at 230 West Center Street, WestBridgewater, MA 02379. Phone: (508) 584-7816; FAX: (508) 588-8045. Since this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws7article was published in Shotgun News, I have been informed that this particular itemis intended for installation on something called a “Knight’s Rail” as a forward pistolgrip – not as a replacement for the standard pistol grip.The flash suppressor may be a problem for some rifles–but look carefully at themanufacturer’s literature before you assume that your rifle has a flash suppressor. When Iasked Armalite (as Eagle Arms is now named) about the EA-15, they reminded me thatthey have never called that piece of metal at the end of the barrel a “flash suppressor” butrather a “muzzle brake.” That’s their story, and they’re sticking to it.The M1A/M14 pattern rifles are another matter. That is most emphatically a “flashsuppressor” hanging off the end of the barrel, so Springfield Armory now sells a kit toreplace the flash suppressor on your M1A with a muzzle brake. (The price went up after Iordered it, and since I haven’t received it yet, I’m not going to tell you the price and bewrong again.) The M1A/M14 rifles don’t have any of the other banned features, so this isa painless fix. You can order it at http://www.springfield-armory.com or from SpringfieldArmory, 420 W. Main Street, Geneseo, IL 61254. Phone: (309) 944-5631; FAX: (309)944-3676.Springfield Armory’s Solution to SB 23There are two other categories of rifles that might be a problem under the newlaw. “A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws8accept more than 10 rounds” is an “assault weapon” under the law.6An SKS with theoptional 20 round fixed magazine wouldn’t be legal–so restore the standard 10 roundfixed magazine.There are also a few semiauto, centerfire tube-fed carbines out there. Are any ofthem greater than 10 rounds capacity? Look carefully at the rifles you are bringing intoCalifornia, and remember, that if it holds 10 rounds in .357 Magnum, it might hold 11rounds in .38 Special. Ditto for 9mm carbines–.380 ACP cartridge is a bit shorter. The.380 ACP cartridge doesn’t have enough recoil to operate the mechanism correctly, andit’s probably not safe to do so, but an overzealous prosecutor might decide to take you tocourt anyway.Semiautomatic centerfire rifles less than 30 inches long are also “assault weapons”under the new law. These rifles don’t have to be detachable magazine, nor do they needany of the “features” listed above to be an “assault weapon.”7Because this is four incheslonger than the federal minimum length for a long gun, get out your measuring tape and besure before you buy or sell a very short semiautomatic carbine in California.Detachable magazine, semiautomatic pistols with one or more of the followingfeatures are “assault weapons”: a “threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flashsuppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer”; a second handgrip; a “shroud that is attachedto, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon6Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(2).7Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(3).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws9without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel”; a detachablemagazine “at some location outside of the pistol grip.”8This definition of “assault weapon” was pretty clearly written to ban the DC9 andother pistols that look like submachine guns. But it also bans some guns that aren’t in thatcategory. I would worry about pistols with threaded barrels intended for use with amuzzle brake–if there is a silencer or flash suppressor anywhere that can fit those threads,you may unintentionally commit a felony if you bring it here and sell it. Some of theOlympic target pistols are also “assault weapons” because the detachable magazine is“outside of the pistol grip.” Perhaps it’s just paranoia, but that definition of “shroud”seems like it has some room for misinterpretation.Now we are getting to the real oddities. Another category of “assault weapon”under the new law is any “semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacityto accept more than 10 rounds.”9It looks like the old broomhandle Mauser and a fewother antiques of about the same age might be “assault weapons” under California law. (Isay might because if they were made before January 1, 1899, they are “antique firearms”and thus exempt from SB 23.) Make sure that you tell your friends who collect old gunsabout this one–they probably don’t think that they have anything to worry about.Finally, shotguns. Semiautomatic shotguns are “assault weapons” if they have afolding or telescoping stock, and a pistol grip “that protrudes conspicuously beneath theaction of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.”10(I know what they meanhere–the shotgun has a pistol grip, or a thumbhole stock, or a vertical handgrip–but as8Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(4).9Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(5).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California’s New Gun Laws10with so many other parts of this law, it was carelessly written, and is easy to misinterpret.)Semiautomatic shotguns that accept detachable magazines are also “assault weapons.”11Shotguns of any action type that have a revolving cylinder are also “assault weapons.”12This new law is similar to the Columbus, Ohio assault weapon ordinance struckdown by the U.S. 6thCircuit Court of Appeals in 1998 because it was unconstitutionallyvague. That court found that a person of ordinary intelligence could not be expected toknow if they were breaking the city’s ban or not13–and after this little walk throughCalifornia’s somewhat similar law, I think you can see why federal judges could come tothat opinion. Let’s hope that judges on the 9thCircuit Court of Appeals (the one thatcovers California) have as much sense.Clayton E. Cramer is a historian. His fifth book, Concealed Weapon Laws of theEarly Republic: Dueling, Southern Violence, and Moral Reform was published byPraeger Press in 1999. You can visit his web page at http://www.ggnra.org/cramer.10Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(6).11Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(7).12Cal. Penal Code § 12276.1(a)(8).13Peoples Rights Organization v. Columbus, 1998 FED App. 0210P (6th Cir.)

I live in gun-happy, redneck South Carolina. Gun laws here consist of 2 things:

1) If you carry a pistol, you gotta make it visible at all times or carry a concealed weapons permit.

2) You can't bring your gun into a bar.


That's it. :D We can have full auto weapons, hi-cap magazines, pistol grips, folding stocks, bayonets, etc. I can mount a .50 machine gun on my Zuk's rollbar if I want one and the rednecks would just nod and smile.:p

Hef

No Hef you still have to follow al federal firearms regulations. I am not going to explain the 1934 national firearms act to you. You can't build a full auto weapon, an "assault style Weapon" as defined by the the assault weapons ban, or an unimportable firearm as defined by 992 R legislation.

Do more research before you post up like that. Try mounting a .50 to your roll bar and you will most likely be arrested anyway. It may not be technically illeagle, but they can get you on other things, it happened to one of the Guys on a G3 board in Ohio who was trying his legal right of open carry, it didn't go too well for him.

"Try mounting a .50 to your roll bar and you will most likely be arrested anyway."


Well, at least they can't say it was CONCEALED.

;)
:flipoff2:

There seems to be some valuable info here: Home Gunsmithing Forum (http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e9ed75e0514ffff) Look for lengthy discussions regarding the batf letter and 80% parts. There are many people who are selling "80%" receivers on ebay and it is doubtful that every one of them has a batf letter to accompany them. Problem is that if they get caught you can be sure that the batf will be looking at the transaction lists and contacting those people who have purchased these parts. If they do it for illegal cable boxes I'm sure they will do it for illegal gun parts. Check out the forum it's cool. The machine work these guys are doing at home is sick.

My father and I used to run a gunsmithing shop out of our basement-back when this was still legal:flipoff2:

First off, if you do decide to blue a gun in your home, be aware that the chemistry that is used is highly toxic. Highly toxic enough that the metallic element used has its own waste codes in industry.

Secondly, cold bluing looks like cold bluing and won't protect your steel as long as you will want.

I have a degree in chemistry and a hot bluing setup that will even do high nickel guns like Winchester Model 12s, Marlins, and I have evenblued Stainless Smiths for the local drug task force. They looked so nice that when they changed guns, there was not even a single one offered for sale, the officers bought every damned one. If you are going to build agun, find someone local with a bluing tank or an industrial black oxide facility. The chemistry and physical utility requirements for hot bluing are not something that most will want to tackle.

As far as manufacturing firearms, other than the goofy laws in certain parts of the country, private individuals are permitted to construct single firearms (long guns) for their personal use. Mass construction or importation will attract unwanted attention.

Hef-everytime I read about states where you can't carry in a bar, I think of the folks in Fort Wayne who have shot thieves trying to rob bars. Those writing the laws don't seem to worry about this much though. Fortunately, Indiana has a workablehandgun license.

Peace,
Paul

Originally posted by Hef
I found a website that offers rifle parts kits (less receivers) for a serious discount over complete assemble rifles. The cost of the kit and the receiver is still quite a bit cheaper than the assembled rifles.

Anyone here have experience with these kits? Are they crap?

And my last question is this: Since I can't find the same site (US) again today after hours of searching, does anyone here know of one offering similar kits? :emb::p


Hef

A few years back, I built a StG-58 (a verson of the FAL) off of an Austrian parts kit and an Enterprise receiver. Although it took a little research, the assembly was fairly simple and the resulting firearm was a pretty good shooter (and hella fun). I spent probably $350 on the parts, $100 or so on other bits and pieces, and two years later sold the rifle for $1200. Even with the cost of .308/7.62N surplus ammo, I probably broke even on the whole affair. :D

There are - or at least were - quite a few sellers of the rifle kits out there. Here's a LINK (http://www.falfiles.com/sponsors.php) of the sponsor page of the site where I got most of my FAL information. I forgot from who exactly I bought the kit and receiver, but there should be enough links in there to lead you to something.

Do it. Every red-blooded American should own several "evil black rifles."

here is a couple of links for you on FAL part. I bought a kit from falparts.com and it was a nice kit.

falparts.com
dsarms.com

Originally posted by Aron82
No Hef you still have to follow al federal firearms regulations. I am not going to explain the 1934 national firearms act to you. You can't build a full auto weapon, an "assault style Weapon" as defined by the the assault weapons ban, or an unimportable firearm as defined by 992 R legislation.

Do more research before you post up like that. Try mounting a .50 to your roll bar and you will most likely be arrested anyway. It may not be technically illeagle, but they can get you on other things, it happened to one of the Guys on a G3 board in Ohio who was trying his legal right of open carry, it didn't go too well for him.


I was joking about the .50 on the rollbar. I'm not that stupid.;)

As far as federal firearms regulations (NFA, etc).....I'm fully aware of what is or is not a legal firearm. I fully intend to abide by those regulations. I know I can't build a full auto weapon (unless the parts meet certain criteria) and I don't want to go to prison for doing so.

Hef