O.k I finished my SOA on my 1982 CJ8 with 36" TSLs Ford 9" rear, Dana 44 front, 5.0, blah, blah blah...

Put RE 1.5 SOA YJ springs in front and had customized stok YJ springs in rear. Well after a couple of trips the passenger side (side with the anti-wrap ladder bar) springs in the rear flattened out.

I just bought some RE springs for the rear but I am afraid to use the ladder bar because at $125. I can't afford to replace the RE springs every fouth wheeling trip.

SO I come here asking for anti-wrap bar/ladder alternatives.

I used the search engine here to get the info I needed on building the bar and didn't see any alternative ideas.

So what else can I do?

Mark

4 link:flipoff2:

Are you saying you bought the RE SOA springs, with the reverse spring eyes, and are about to put them on? I just put those on my brothers YJ, and they helped a lot with his axle wrap, he is not running a ladder bar.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/


http://www.jeepaholics.com/citizensband/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13723

Originally posted by SanDiegoCJ
http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/


http://www.jeepaholics.com/citizensband/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13723

While the description claims this as a vertical solution as opposed to the typical horizontal solution, the forces are still being transferred in a horizontal manner. The design is interesting but it almost looks like you need a :massey: lift to run this thing. :flipoff2: Maybe I'm just not seeing it right.

All new ideas are certainly welcome, and this seems to be working well for those already using it, so it's obviously another solution to the problem whether I see it correctly or not.

slick design for sure...just have to get that gas tank out of the way

I think you are prematurly pointing the finger at the anti wrap bar. I understand your concern for your newly aquired and expensive RE springs however there is a 99% chance, at least in my mind, that the wrap bar did not lead to spring sag. This is unless the designe of the ladder bar causes some kind of bind in the spring (upper traction bar mount doesnt allow enough movement and causes springs to S when flexing) The Bambar uses the same principles to limit axle wrap, only it relies on the springs themselves as the lower bars of the link setup.

You have just ran into a problem many have incountered before you, stock YJ springs even if beefed up are not up to the task of wheeling.

Originally posted by JeeperJake
slick design for sure...just have to get that gas tank out of the way


Take another look at the pics. It's all above the pumpkin and the
gastank isn't an issue. :flipoff2:

Well I have a simplified version torque bar link run with a similar concept. I essentially made a center triangle style truss directly over the diff housing welding the ends to the tube itself(I have a Dana 60, wouldnt recommend on a dana 35). I wanted to mount a center link with the length matching that of the length from the front spring eye to center of axle. I then wanted to match the angle from the center eye of the front spring mount to the center pin of the spring pack at normal ride compression. By doing this I have a center link that almost matches the horizontal travel of the rear housing. Its much simpler then the compound center link we're talking about here on the hyperlink.

As for my spring wrap history though,........even with this simple center link, I still managed to wrap 3 BDS passenger side rear springs(they are garbage for SOA or anything over 38"). I then went to RE 2.5" heavy duty spring pack with add-a-leaf and havent any major right side sag. With a single link leaf spring set up the right spring is going to take a beating because of the torque effect from the drive shaft. The RE are a much better spring then the average lift spring and a world better then the stock YJ spring.

Originally posted by apeters89


While the description claims this as a vertical solution as opposed to the typical horizontal solution, the forces are still being transferred in a horizontal manner. The design is interesting but it almost looks like you need a :massey: lift to run this thing. :flipoff2: Maybe I'm just not seeing it right.

All new ideas are certainly welcome, and this seems to be working well for those already using it, so it's obviously another solution to the problem whether I see it correctly or not.

You see it correctly. This was HASHED out heavily a few months back. It is, essentially, a single link anti wrap bar on a REALLY tall mount. Anyone who says different needs to go find the other thread and they can read about it there. I'm not going to get into it all over again. There is a very good pic with the rotational forces shown... pic says a 1000 words every time.

I am not saying it doesn't work for those that use it, or that they didn't put a lot of time into it, but when it comes down to it, its just another single arm setup.

Originally posted by rkcrawl



I am not saying it doesn't work for those that use it, or that they didn't put a lot of time into it, but when it comes down to it, its just another single arm setup.


AMEN!

Not to sound like a dumbass newbie, but what I figured out from seeing it over and over again is the lack of bumpstops. Most people do a SOA and never even bother with bumpstops. Once the springs go into negative arch there shot. Just my .02

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/

single bar setups don't work:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/soa9s.gif

Here is a product from Nth Degree Mobility.

http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/stinger.htm

I like the idea since I have very little room on either side of the pumpkin due to my dual exhaust to use a ladder bar.

I don't think that it would be considered a single bar setup due to the fact that the pinion is hard fastened to the unit.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this type of setup?

I dont think it is readily available yet, website says "available October 2003"

-Mel

Originally posted by Mel85CJ
I dont think it is readily available yet, website says "available October 2003"

-Mel

Thanks for your vast wisdom. :flipoff2:

The one that was not available until October 2003 is their redesigned model. They were selling a different one before this one which was based on the same concept.

Originally posted by Limerick
Here is a product from Nth Degree Mobility.

http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/stinger.htm

I like the idea since I have very little room on either side of the pumpkin due to my dual exhaust to use a ladder bar.

I don't think that it would be considered a single bar setup due to the fact that the pinion is hard fastened to the unit.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this type of setup?

That is a GAy assed POS if I ever saw one.

Look closely at the Passenger side spring, see how it is arched backwards?

That is my problem (and theirs too evidently)

heres the picture http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/assets/stinger/stinger_01_02.jpg

As for the feedback thanks guys, I guess I should have specified GOOD, WORKING alternatives to the ladder bar.

I intend to run just the RE springs (no antiwrap) this weekend to see how they hold up on my Ford 9" and 36s.
I agree that the stock YJ springs no matter haw they are "built" are just polished pieces of shit doing noting but adding weight. I hope the REs do me right like my front one have.

If It's wrapping out of control I'll be back.

Thanks again


Mark

Has anyone had any luck with this design?

Originally posted by mrmacrro

Look closely at the Passenger side spring, see how it is arched backwards?


That would be because the spring is fully compressed! Notice the driver side is fully arched meaning full droop. The picture was obviously taken on an RTI ramp or something similar.
But, it is basically just the same as the traditional traction/anti wrap bar. It just attaches in a different manner. I am not keen on it either though. Seems to me the best designs are the traditional one, and that BamBar.
best way to fix that wrap, 4 link.

Can anybody here testify to the bambar.

Can you get vertical (well almost vertical) with all the weight on the rear axles and still get "zero axle wrap" ?

I guess I just can't seem to get over the fact that it looks to me like there is still going to be some pinion pivot.http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=30665

Am I wrong?

Are these guys drinking the Cool-Ade or am I just missing the boat?

thats still a single position setup and yes the pinion will walk up and down.

Idealy you need somthing at top and bottom thats allows for no pinion walk.


Redo your antiwrap bar.
Your springs are what failed, and not from the bar.

If anything a correctly engineered ladder bar will keep the springs from sagging.

Why would a ladder bar cause the springs to flatten out. Wouldn't that more likely be just from use. And if it is from the ladder bar how would a setup like this:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2039128

be much different. Looks pretty much the same to me except that without the "ladder" structure it would prolly just bend.

:confused:

Originally posted by mrmacrro


That is a GAy assed POS if I ever saw one.

Look closely at the Passenger side spring, see how it is arched backwards?

That is my problem (and theirs too evidently)

heres the picture http://www.nthdegreemobility.com/assets/stinger/stinger_01_02.jpg



Um the springs are arched negativly because that jeep is flexed out. look closely.

Q

Originally posted by mrmacrro

Put RE 1.5 SOA YJ springs in front and had customized stok YJ springs in rear. Well after a couple of trips the passenger side (side with the anti-wrap ladder bar) springs in the rear flattened out.

I have to agree with others in saying that your wrap bar might not be the culprit.

Are you running properly placed bump stops to limit negative arch?

ANd what do you mean by "customized stock" YJ springs?

If you had them re-arched or soemthing I would say thats your problem...

Personally I'm running a ladder bar with 2.5" lift springs with no problems with plenty of use...don;t see how a properly designed bar would mess up one side really.

MJ

Originally posted by mrmacrro

I intend to run just the RE springs (no antiwrap) this weekend to see how they hold up on my Ford 9" and 36s.
... I hope the REs do me right like my front one have.


A buddy of mine is running that combo on a CJ8. He's only been on the trail twice & some around town driving, but no problems yet.

Everyone is saying 4 link :rolleyes: (so join'em) Just think about what I was talking to you about at Reiter - 2 leaf springs 4 shackles and 4 link - you can always play around with coil springs or c/o's later if you get tired of leaf springs

I think that is about the only way you are going to get rid of that forced neg. arch (mine does the same thing) - Just my 2 cts

Matt

Bumpstops would help too.... :flipoff2:

Originally posted by mrmacrro


That is a GAy assed POS if I ever saw one.

Look closely at the Passenger side spring, see how it is arched backwards?

That is my problem (and theirs too evidently)



You obviously have no understanding of bumpstops, negative arching springs, or general physics for that matter.

You my friend appear to be gay assed POS if I've ever seen one.

A ladder bar doesnt allow any wrap accept the deflection of the bushings themselves.

THe good news is we have solved your problem, you are negativly arching your springs and wearing them out prematurly. get some damn bumpstops ( I don't know why people ALWAYS leave them out) Also leave the traction bar in there, it is doing nothing but helping.

I have bump stops, I don't see how they have ANYTHING to do with axlewrap.

While the ladder bar doesn't "allow any wrap" that energy has to go somewhere. in my case it has been going to the front of the passenger spring, bending it in an "S" shape as described in a picture shown earlier in this thread.

oh and by the way Thanks for the obligatory Pirate welcome......Asswipe. :flipoff2:

You obviously have no understanding of bumpstops, negative arching springs, or general physics for that matter.

You my friend appear to be gay assed POS if I've ever seen one.

Thanks Matt....

I am planning on running no bar this weekend. If I have big problems I think the 4-link is the way I'm headed. Though I stil don't quite understand why the 4 shackles are needed.

Before that I think I'll try the ladder bar again just for shits and grins. :D

Mark

Originally posted by wanderingwillys
Everyone is saying 4 link :rolleyes: (so join'em) Just think about what I was talking to you about at Reiter - 2 leaf springs 4 shackles and 4 link - you can always play around with coil springs or c/o's later if you get tired of leaf springs

I think that is about the only way you are going to get rid of that forced neg. arch (mine does the same thing) - Just my 2 cts

Matt

Bumpstops would help too.... :flipoff2:

To add more info.

I'm runnin the 1.5" RE reverse eye springs on my setup.

TBI 350. 140:1 crawl with 38's. I've bent up one 5 leaf pack in the rear in 3 trips. I put the 6 leaf packs in at the beginning of last year and haven't bent them yet. My bump stops are not adjusted correctly (I need to fix that) and I don't run a wrap bar.

Having said that, it does wrap in extreme situations. If I'm really bound up I can feel the rear wrap. In most cases the wrap isn't bad at all.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=5193&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&storeId=10101

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by mrmacrro
I have bump stops, I don't see how they have ANYTHING to do with axlewrap.

While the ladder bar doesn't "allow any wrap" that energy has to go somewhere. in my case it has been going to the front of the passenger spring, bending it in an "S" shape as described in a picture shown earlier in this thread.

oh and by the way Thanks for the obligatory Pirate welcome......Asswipe. :flipoff2:



I want to see a picture of your setup. If your running a ladder bar with a shackle on the forward mount that is perpendicular to the ground the rotational energy is transfered into the frame. IF you are getting S'ing in the spring, your shackle isnt working right. The picture shown earlier has no S in the spring just a spring that is highly negativly arched. We are trying to help you but you for some reason think the hundreds of people using the ladder bar style traction bar apropiatly are all wrong.

Originally posted by mrmacrro
I have bump stops, I don't see how they have ANYTHING to do with axlewrap.

While the ladder bar doesn't "allow any wrap" that energy has to go somewhere. in my case it has been going to the front of the passenger spring, bending it in an "S" shape as described in a picture shown earlier in this thread.

oh and by the way Thanks for the obligatory Pirate welcome......Asswipe. :flipoff2:



Show the wrap bar setup. Pix will do way more then your simple description has so far. If you have a ladder bar type setup there should be NO way to wrap your spring into any kind of S shape.

And can you be consistent? Your first post says the spring flattened out, now its an S. Which is it?

Oh, and newbie, grow some thicker skin :flipoff2: people are trying to help you here.

another cheaper way to go it to use long spring purches, this hit the spring when the axle wraps, most guys who do this use a long piece of c channle for the purch

i built a bam bar vertical wrap thingy this summer. haven't haditon the trail yet, but on the road it stops wrap and power is put instantly to the ground with no pinion movement

http://forums.cj-8.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=25387

Here is the Anti wrap ladder as I have it setup. 3/4" Heims all around.
"note" to the Post Pickers; This is not the most current photo of my springs. It was taken before any spring flattening/"S"ing occured. It is however an accurate phot of my ladder bar.

And can you be consistent? Your first post says the spring flattened out, now its an S. Which is it?

The Spring flattened out but when looking at the front of the pass spring you can see it has been "S"ed .

but you for some reason think the hundreds of people using the ladder bar style traction bar apropiatly are all wrong.

I'm glad to read that many folks are using the Ladder bar without any problems. I guess my shit-springs are most likely the culprit here.

Like I posted earlier I'll try without the ladder bar for a day of wheeling to see what needs to be done.

<Flame Suit On>

As for getting a "thick skin newbie" I'd suggest you take your own advise DUDE.
(What a newbie can't bust balls around here? :flipoff2: )

Just because I don't post much here doesn't mean I haven't been "around".

One of the reasons I don't post many questions here is due to the fact that I KNOW HOW TO SEARCH and I don't want to deal with the trolls that just look for any little reason to pick apart a poster because they mispelled a word or made a minor technical mistake while describing something.

Since I don't wheel with any SOA CJs I needed to get the "Pirate View" on this issue just to see what else is available and to find out if there is indeed a better option.

<Flame Suit Off>


Peace out.


Mark

Hey asshat,STFU:flipoff2: It's yer week ass,fucked up abortion of a spring pack!!Put the rubi's in and leave the track bar!! Now go back to the mall butt bandit!!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by jeepmauler
Hey asshat,STFU:flipoff2: It's yer week ass,fucked up abortion of a spring pack!!Put the rubi's in and leave the track bar!! Now go back to the mall butt bandit!!:flipoff2:

Yes Maller....:shaking:

Atta boy,thats better! Yer week ass springs can't handle the linear push of you standin that bobbed 8 on it's tail and lettin the five-O sing. Think about it!It's not wrap,it's push!Go see Conover.

Bet, Can my junk hitch a ride to S&N on old RW&B sometime?

Fawk yeah!! Anytime, I don't have nuthin to haul on it anymore no how:( I'd still do the rubi's with the wrap bar for the short term wheelin option.

Yep Absafawkinlutely.


I plan on swinging by yer chop tonight.

See you then?

Should be around,still rippin 'part mauled.Very sad end to a kickass rig.Oh well,it's a meens to an end,most stuff will be used on the new rig.See ya later

Hey - Mark the extra shackles are need unless you are able to match the travel arc characteristics of whatever 4 link you build to the travel arc of your leafsprings (or the front eye to axle portion of the spring will bind and cause similar problems to what you have now) - Think of it like this: with 4 shackles the axle can slide foward and back a whole bunch - add a 4 link into the mix and now the axle is restrained in relation to the frame and the springs are just there to support the weight of the vehicle not locate the axle front to back... Side to side the spring bushings should have enough give to follow the articulation movement...

Make sense?

PS: I think mauler nailed it - try the new springs first or see S&N

Jeff - what are you using for the base of the new rig - another XJ or just some tube... Sad to see it go :(

Matt

Yep , Matt I get it now, thanks.

Maulers getting a brand spankin new S&N buggy.

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/Copper81/RCAAPage2/Untitled-15.jpg

Lucky Dog!

Originally posted by mrmacrro
http://forums.cj-8.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=25387

Here is the Anti wrap ladder as I have it setup. 3/4" Heims all around.

"note" to the Post Pickers; This is not the most current photo of my springs. It was taken before any spring flattening/"S"ing occured. It is however an accurate phot of my ladder bar.



Nice RED X :flipoff2:

And take your <flame on> to someone who cares. I could give 2 shits if you have a typo or a minor technical error. Flattened out is way different then S. S means wrapped, flat could simply mean it sagged from use. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by rkcrawl


Nice RED X ......... Flattened out is way different then S. S means wrapped, flat could simply mean it sagged from use.....

Red X ?

What can't you see the image?


I think the second part of your post is what happens, it bent then sagged.

Yep

Both


Thanks!


M

Originally posted by mrmacrro


Red X ?

What can't you see the image?


I think the second part of your post is what happens, it bent then sagged.

Yep

Both


Thanks!


M

Correct, I can't see the image. You included a HTML link to a page on another site. I cut and paste it, and it complains about needing to be logged in.

I would seriously like to see your setup to see if there is anything we can offer in the way of constructive feedback.

L8r

Originally posted by mrmacrro
Yep , Matt I get it now, thanks.

Maulers getting a brand spankin new S&N buggy.

Lucky Dog!

Cool - that would explain why he was driving theirs so much last time I was up there...

Now he can't blame the heep anymore (I'm only a little jealous :flipoff2: )

Here's the picture http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=8960

Thanks for your concern.


Well I ran the new springs this weekend, what a difference they made!!

RE SOA 6leaf YJ packs are THE SHIT!!

I am going to try a different antiwrap setup now that I know how these springs act.
They do have some wrap but it isn't anywhere close to the wrap I had with my boo-fooed Stock YJ springs. so my anti wrap solution will not need to be to restrictive.

I'll post some pics once I get it finished.

Thanks again to those that have contributed to this thread.

Peace.


Mark

I realize that it's a little late for this, but what about this idea?

Since ladder bars are only attached to one side of the axle, build two ladder bars... one for each side. Have them angled towards the center of the vehicle, but so that they connect at only one point. Then, you can put on your tie-rod end or whatever to act as a swivel, and you'd reduce complexity because there'd only be one shackle (unlike four-linking). Of course, you would need to clear the driveshaft. In the top-down perspective below, red signifies the dual-ladder bar and the blue signifies the driveshaft.

http://home.alltel.net/usaaf/etc/ladderbar.gif

Although, this appears to be something very similar to the BamBar. It seems that mrmacrro's problem lies in the leafs and bumpstops, but would this setup prevent one leaf from seeing more stress than the other, by eliminating an offset ladder bar?

Even if I don't make any sense, excuse me... I'm new to understanding traction control devices on Jeeps :).

If you want to reduce binding, you should shorten your ladder bar to be connected to the shackle in the same plane as your forward spring bolt. This will keep the axle traveling in the same plane with your springs and ladder bar. It will help.

you've got to put a joint there, or you're just binding the thing from flexing. Also, this is still just an upper bar. you've not stopped the bottom of the housing from walking under. And if it does try to, it's going to rip the welds. You need force above and below the axle center to combat this stuff. This is getting darn close to a four link, and you'd just about be better off to just go ahead and do it, or use one single, simple ladder bar.

edit: that's to the -^- drawing above.

Originally posted by gipper
[B]This is getting darn close to a four link, and you'd just about be better off to just go ahead and do it, or use one single, simple ladder bar.B]

Yeah, good point. I think I'll keep it basic with the ladder bar. If that doesn't work right, I'll four-link it.

I went and wheeled it this weekend without the anti wrap bar and it really wasn't that bad.

The RE spring packs are friggin A#1 Awesome!!!

I will be adding anti wrap bars to it only I am not going with the ladder.

#1 I don't like it,
#2 I bashed up the bracket on my axle this weekend :D

I intend to run a setup like this on both sides of the axle on the outside of my framerails.

http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=32205

Yes it is basically a one bar set up (only on each side of the axle) but supposedly creates a "4 link" using the front of the springs as the lower "link".
I figure this setup will suffice since the springs alone are doing a great job of antiwrap and they only really need a little help.
I'll come back here with pics of the install and then a report once I stand my shit on its tail getting up a rock!

Thanks again.

Mark

I hate to tell you but that set up doesn't work, you are just going to sag and destroy your new springs, see my earler post. But its your money and your rig, It's apparent you don't want to listen to what works.

Originally posted by Archie_G
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/

single bar setups don't work:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/soa9s.gif

That's not the same set up yo!

Mine will not be attached to the Diff, it will be attached to the axle tubes out side of the frame. One on each side.

At least that's the plan right now but I am still open to alternatives and ave a couple other ideas going.

Later,

Mark

Originally posted by mrmacrro
Mine will not be attached to the Diff, it will be attached to the axle tubes out side of the frame. One on each side.


Mark, that's not really the point. The significant factor is that the springs don't function well as a lower bar. Read the site that was posted above (4x4wire). This is a quote from that site:

In other words, this type of setup is depending on the spring to stay rigid in order to achieve the triangulation it needs to hold the pinion angle steady. This is a bad idea because springs by their very nature are designed to bend.

Originally posted by mrmacrro
That's not the same set up yo!

Mine will not be attached to the Diff, it will be attached to the axle tubes out side of the frame. One on each side.

At least that's the plan right now but I am still open to alternatives and ave a couple other ideas going.

Later,

Mark

Mark, it doesn't matter if its connected to the pinion or the axle, or the spring plate, I had the same 'traction' bars, thought I could make them work, I couldn't. Learn from my mistakes. The axle will rotate around the single bar mount at the axle and s your springs, sagging them.

Use the ladder bar, its not the problem. Trust me.

can you see the bars in this pic?
http://archiegallup.homestead.com/files/SOACJ5/Soa1.jpg

I even tried to go '4 link', it sucked also
http://archiegallup.homestead.com/files/SOACJ5/Soa11.jpg

another bad picture of my 'traction bar'
http://archiegallup.homestead.com/files/SOACJ5/Soa12.jpg

O.k. O.k.

I'll redo the ladder, maybe one on each side, and will attach ot to the frame right above the front (rear packs) spring perch.

Thanks again for the input all.

Mark

Originally posted by mrmacrro
O.k. O.k.

I'll redo the ladder, maybe one on each side, and will attach ot to the frame right above the front (rear packs) spring perch.

Thanks again for the input all.

Mark


A ladder type traction bar (which is still the best design) will not automatically work for just any leaf spring setup. There is one important point many miss. There is an easy test you can do that will show if it'll work for you at all. See my post in the thread "Another traction bar question..." for an explanation.

Im my opinion every little thing will help. I run a 2'' bds spring. I put a add-a-leaf from a Cj on the bottom and cut a CJ overload leaf down a bit and run it on top of the leaf pack. I figure that it being on top will help limit the amount of "s". I do run a trac-bar in the rear, and make sure the shackle is close to verticle. The small leaf on the front is a good way to help control axle wrap on the front leafs. It does not totally stop it, but rather help put some resistance on the leafs as they start to s

I have also seen people use chevy short box PU leaf. It would be easy to do on a CJ8 since you have a bit more lenth. They are a lot thicker than any jeep leaf, and they have an overload leaf on the bottom. Stock PU's dont use any type of trac bar and they do quite well. You also can get a longer wheel base.

I have heard good things about the RE springs, but for the $ its easy to get a few packs from a yard and make a custom pack. I run BDS because if they will replace them and they were only $60 each. I have had them on for a bit over a year and they are as good as new- longest I have every had a store bought leaf pack. I run a 36 swamper.

Would this solve the problem? I am probably going to do this on the back of my xj, and later on I will swap the leaves out for coils. With the green links on the top of the differential and the purple links flush with the bottom of the axle tube, it should control axle wrap and pinion movement during articulation.
http://www.picturevillage.com/photo/data/c8862fc1a32725712838863fb1a260b9/9120_p143028.jpg

to get the most articulation with the ladder bar type traction bar.shouldnt it be mounted as close to the diff(closer to center) as possible?.....the way your is would limit the travel on one side.....and shouldnt your shackle be mounted below teh bar and not above it?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/Traction%20Bar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar2.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar3.jpg

Originally posted by bspencer
to get the most articulation with the ladder bar type traction bar.shouldnt it be mounted as close to the diff(closer to center) as possible?.....the way your is would limit the travel on one side.....and shouldnt your shackle be mounted below teh bar and not above it?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/Traction%20Bar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar2.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar3.jpg

From what I have seen it doesn't matter whether you mount the shackle up or down. I would mount it up to keep it out of harms way. As for the mounting of the ladder bar. Would'nt you want it closer to the leaf spring because that is where wrapping is occuring. Does it really matter where you mount it on the axle?

What should the angle of the shackle be?
Isn't it true that you want the traction bar to be the same angle as the driveshaft, but what about the angle of the shackle.

You want the bar centered on the axle to avoid handling quirks, it keeps everything even. The shackle should be verticle, jury is still out on it being up or down, but down seems to be the most accepted route. The shackle should idealy be in line with the spring hangers. If the bar is longer than the springs it will try to move the axle in a different arc and lead to binding. The driveshaft can deal with changes in the axle position, the front of the springs cant so the driveshaft doesnt need to be taken into account when placing the ladder bar shackle mount.

How would pointing the shackle down be more accepting?

Doesn't the axle rotate up when accelerating?

That would make me want to point it up.

If it is pointing down and the shackle has any angle on it, it will could cause the shackle to bind or to rotate left or right.

I have added a picture to show this.

This is just my thought on the subject and I do not claim to be an expert.

Sorry, ment that the shackle would be in tension. I realise that wasnt clear.

from what i have see nthe shackle is to be at a straight up(or down)....the lower bar on hte antiwrap bar should be parallel to the driveshaft angle and the upper bar should be as parallel to the ground as you can get it

As for angles, start reading up on antisquat. That is a whole nuther ball of wax, lots of info on the board on that subject.

Originally posted by bspencer
from what i have see nthe shackle is to be at a straight up(or down)....the lower bar on hte antiwrap bar should be parallel to the driveshaft angle and the upper bar should be as parallel to the ground as you can get it

I agree.

Originally posted by guinea13
How would pointing the shackle down be more accepting?

Doesn't the axle rotate up when accelerating?

That would make me want to point it up.

If it is pointing down and the shackle has any angle on it, it will could cause the shackle to bind or to rotate left or right.

I have added a picture to show this.

This is just my thought on the subject and I do not claim to be an expert.

Guinea13, you are exactly right. To put in simple terms, have you ever tried to back up a hay wagon. It's very hard to do since you have two pivot points. Pulling a hay wagon is no problem.

That's all I know is when I make mine I will be pointing the shackle up. I need to make one soon because I just broke my driveshaft due to axle wrap. Only $71 of damage though (broke an ear off of the slip side of the driveshaft).

to get the most articulation with the ladder bar type traction bar.shouldnt it be mounted as close to the diff(closer to center) as possible?.....the way your is would limit the travel on one side.....and shouldnt your shackle be mounted below teh bar and not above it?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/Traction%20Bar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar2.jpg
http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/Specialty/TractionBar3.jpg
Which vendor (if any) build this traction bar (ladder bar) kit? Cost?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/Traction%20Bar.jpg
Which vendor (if any) build this traction bar (ladder bar) kit? Cost?

Lets see, I right click the picture, click on properties and wow, I get the link
www.sams4x4store.com/Traction%20Bar.jpg
.

just remember if you are going to buy the Sam's bar don't make the mistake I did and get the weenie one. I have already bent the fawker, re-enforced it and bent it again. :shaking:

I run Modified stock wrangler springs on my CJ with a Sams desgin anti wrap bar and I have yet to flatten a spring in almost 2 years.

I think you should look at how much the springs flex and if your able to invert the spring at all. Inverting them will cause them to flatten. Limit the up travel and it will help alot.

Up forward to attach the shackle & bracket, I reinforced the skidplate with 1/4"x2" plate and contoured it to the shape of the skid, then boxed it in for additional strength. We also used a piece of a Ford shock tower for additional gusseting.
http://www.fototime.com/0FB02419673D8A8/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/F622C214E002E28/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2C68C432339DC22/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/BED7BB4F0BA2192/standard.jpg

Welded the rear plates as close as possible to the diff, and also notched the outer bracket so the axle breather fitting is accessible.
http://www.fototime.com/AB58A301383F8E9/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/ABADE2BA8DFC580/standard.jpg

I've been running the RE 1.5" SOA leafs for almost 3 years with zero issues.
http://www.fototime.com/B187C68E67626C9/standard.jpg

Ujoint, I would have the adjustment for the axle end on the lower bar. My rig would pull the threads rights out of that tube in a day.

Ujoint, I would have the adjustment for the axle end on the lower bar. My rig would pull the threads rights out of that tube in a day.
Keith; Interesting that you mention this! :smokin: I've kept an eye on areas of stress. So far I've been okay & haven't seen problems arise. Perhaps I should check again since I haven't for the last couple weeks. Thanks for the heads-up.

When I was playing with its *fit*, it seemed to align better flipped the way it is, but in light of your experiance - I could see where having it installed 180* differently than mine is, there could be benifits.

I did mine the same way, didn't even think about the threads pulling out. I don't currently have a close up. But I might just flip it around as you said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/rjorgens/Track_Bar.jpg

-RJ

Why did you make it adjustable?

Why did you make it adjustable?
To help dial things back in if the leafs settle/sag, or the Jeep gets heavier or lighter.