Hydraulic tube Bender Question

[guinea13]

I am looking at making a Hydraulic tube bender and I have done a lot of research but am not sure on one thing. Anyone ever make one using an Air hydraulic pump instead of an electric one.
I have seen two people that have made hydraulic tube benders but both were electric. Any Air hydraulic people out there.

This is the pump I am look at:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40611

And this is the ram I am looking at:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=200042674&categoryId=425

OR

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=413201&categoryId=425

I know this is a double acting ram but am also wondering if you can plug the one end and use it as a single.

Will this work?

[Ultim8kaos]

I use a Nike air over hydro pump for my Pro-Tools 105 bender. It works just fine. As for the rams, I bought the one specific to my bender from Pro-Tools but the ones you showed should work fine.

I don't think I would plug the port not being used as it needs to vent for proper movement.

[bheadrick]

Had the air on my Model 3 bender, slow and used alot of air. The worst problem was not being able to bend a full 90 without having to re-pin the die. For those that have a bender you will know what I am talking about.

Finally I made my own mount and used a 24" double acting cylinder so I could make those bends in one sweep, used a electric over hydralic pump and three position valve. The power return is nice also over the spring return most air systems use.

:)

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Everybody I've talked to who's got an air-over-hydro bender setup says theirs is really slow. Usually in the line of commenting that mine is really fast.

Also, I have a DA cylinder, plumbed with a standard directional valve, so I don't have to manually retract it or bend against spring retract. More complex setup, but IMHO, a more production-friendly one. Sure makes it nice to work with, anyway--nowhere near as exhausting as it once was, to build cool stuff. :)

[Ultim8kaos]

Agreed on the speed of the air over! LOL It does use a lot of air and you do have to repin the die for a full 90* bend, twice! :eek:
However I only use mine at home and not doing production stuff.

[GOAT1]

The air over pumps run at high pressure and low flow because the rams they are designed to work with are small and require the high pressure to get the high forces out of them. The air over pump you are looking at is for a 10,000 psi system and the ram you are looking at is 2,500 psi, just be carefull. Your proposed set up will be very slow because the pump is low flow and the ram will have to be bigger (piston size) to get enough force at 2500 psi. I dont even think the pump will have enough oil volume to fill the ram anyway.

[zuknut]

My pro tools bender was air over for several years and I went thru three units before I changed it over to 12volt hydraulic unit from Pierce wrecker sales

I live in Reidville S.C. Just let me know and you can some and see how I have done mine.

[jdjanda]

Anyone use this to power the ram?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46169

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/46100-46199/46169.gif

[Scott@Rockstomper]

The HF 110/220 flavor looks good, except they don't list a GPM on it.

Mine's 12V, with a battery and a trickle charger (got the pump and a cylinder I couldn't use for $50--too good a deal to pass up, despite the useless cylinder) for power. I've seen quite a few built on 220 pumps, usually the same pumps that are used for shop vehicle hoists. Works well.

FWIW, I personally prefer the control valve to be separate from the pump. Here's a pic of all the components except the battery 'n' charger.

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/tools/bender03.jpg

I know it's ghetto, but it flat works, and it's nowhere near as scary as my shop press with a 28" lift kit.

Also, I believe you can get a 220 hydro pump out of Northern (instead of HF) for about $2-300, should be better quality. Add a cylinder and a control valve for another $200ish (for both), $100 worth of fittings and hoses, and build mounts, and you're bending with more power than you should ever need (I can bend 1.75 0.500 in mine!) for probably under $600.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by jdjanda
Anyone use this to power the ram?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46169

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/46100-46199/46169.gif

Thanks for all the good info.

I saw this at harbor frieght too and am interested. I also would like to know if anyone has used this one.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
The HF 110/220 flavor looks good, except they don't list a GPM on it.

Mine's 12V, with a battery and a trickle charger (got the pump and a cylinder I couldn't use for $50--too good a deal to pass up, despite the useless cylinder) for power. I've seen quite a few built on 220 pumps, usually the same pumps that are used for shop vehicle hoists. Works well.


Is that a plow pump? Can't seem to find it.

What is the GPM of your unit?

[Scott@Rockstomper]

We've guessed (not flow tested) mine at around 2 GPM. It's a used pump, and I don't know where it came from originally, but I know I've seen stuff like it in Northern. I'll go look.

Edit: This one
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=20824
appears to be approximately similar to what I have.

With a little plumbing work, a little electrical work, and/or some mechanical fun, you could probably make any of
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&categoryId=1502
do the job, but I'd personally go for one without any integral valve assemblies--I like valves and pumps to be separate parts. Also, as you can see from my above pic, I like the control valve on the bender, to be up away from the pump anyway.

[guinea13]

Can't you get a AC to DC converter for the pump. I think they are about 20.00

[jdjanda]

This place has just about anything needed for a hydro setup

http://www.surpluscenter.com

[guinea13]

I wish I could find a used pump for a decent price.

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Originally posted by guinea13
Can't you get a AC to DC converter for the pump. I think they are about 20.00

For one that can supply 200 amps (with a spike of potentially 400)... they're a little more than $20. It'd be cheaper for me to buy a new pump, than to try and run what amounts to a starter driving a hydro pump, off a converter.

As for a cheap used hydro pump, try someplace that repairs trucks with Tommygates.

[Overkiller]

Originally posted by jdjanda
This place has just about anything needed for a hydro setup

http://www.surpluscenter.com

This is where I got the pump and ram for my setup. Great service. I had to return the first pump (my fault) and they took it back no problem.

[LAME]

got this pump on mine http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23499

hooked to a 1hp Baldor motor that was a $15 garage sale deal. 24"x2.5" ram. Seems to bend very nice.

[guinea13]

Hey wouldn't this pump:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502

be better than this one:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23499

You may not get a high of a GPM but you will get ~6000 more inch lbs of bending torque. This was figured out using this cylinder:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=200042724&categoryId=425


You would have a full stroke time of 29 sec for the first pump and 19 sec for the second pump (assuming a 1800 RPM motor). But the first pump would have more bending torque. I guess it is really dependent on big a peice of tube you want to bend or how fast you want to bend a peice of tube.

Does anyone know how much in/lbs of bending torque is needed to bend a 1 3/4" DOM .120 wall tube? how about 2" DOM .120 wall tube.

[guinea13]

Hey LAME,
What RPM does your motor run at?
I just found a 3/4 pool pump motor that runs at 3450 RPM.


I want to run it with this pump:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502



And the cylinder above.

It should be a good match up. Since I will be running close to 4 GPM with a pressure just under 2300 PSI, which is just under the max load for that cylinder.

Now All I have to do is make the frame and order a die set.

What is a good die set for a tube buggy? Aren't they all made of approx. 1 3/4 DOM .120 wall?

[guinea13]

anyone?

[Wazzobie]

I am new to the bending thing and just orderd up a bender from Mtech suply I have what apears to be the correct pump on my car hoist, a little pluming and a ram and Iwill be in business, the ram that they offer with the unit was a 14 inch 10 ton ram is there any thing different about that unit compaired to the agracultural units for tractors and stuff enough so that I would need a unit thats more than 3X's as much?

Reason I ask is cause they want $400 for there ram and it seems the farm store models go for around $115 whats the difference?

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Originally posted by Wazzobie
is there any thing different about that unit compaired to the agracultural units

The Enerpac cylinder that is typically used with the bender setups is a 10k psi cylinder. The ag stuff is usually 2500psi at best. More pressure = more force with the same size cylinder, or the same force, with a smaller cylinder.

With the auto hoist pump, you can't make enough pressure to drive the Enerpac cylinder reasonably; it typically operates in the 1-2k psi range, not in the 5-10k psi range. So you'll want a bigger cylinder, like one of the ag ones, to get enough force to bend tube.

[Wazzobie]

thx for the info, I think your truck kicks a$$

if I understand corectly

I had no idea they took that much psi to bend tube. So sounds like my car hoist pump wont create enough psi to feed either ram enough to bend tube same with the ag ram so, cost the $400 or close to it like they said for just the ram is probably normal + a different pump (ouch!).
Sounds like I will be doing all the pumping and the raming myself.LOL

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Originally posted by Wazzobie
I had no idea they took that much psi to bend tube. So sounds like my car hoist pump wont create enough psi to feed either ram

Look up. ^^^^^ Same thread. See the pics of my setup? That's a dumptruck or tommygate pump or something, and a 3" bore ag cylinder. About the same pump as on an auto hoist, just a different layout of reservoir and whatnot.

You can use the auto hoist pump, in fact, I know other guys who do, but you can't use it with the typical cylinder that Mtech or JD or ProTools or whoever, wants to sell you; you'll have to use a bigger cylinder (like my 3") to get enough force. Actually, you can do pretty good on a 2.5", but I bend some pretty gnarly stuff sometimes, so I wanted overkill.

If you opt to use the auto hoist pump, you'll need a directional valve and a cylinder, and a custom mount for that cylinder, onto your bender. Nobody makes the adaptation kit that I have; I've seen more than a few guys who've copied mine, and a few who've done it much more elegantly than mine. Hell, I had one guy over here to measure my setup, with a notepad, specifically because he was planning to copy it almost exactly.

It doesn't take that much psi; it takes that much *force*. The little cylinders get there by having a lot of psi; the bigger ones get there by having a lot of piston area. You get there by having a superduperlooooooongass cheaterbar and very little psi (or you'd rip your hands up) if you use the manual bender option. Kinda make sense?

[RokHeep]

Here are a few pictures of mine. My camera sucks, but you get the idea. I can bend ~120 degrees single shot without repinning the die. I really like this setup.

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender/DVC00071.JPG

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender/DVC00065.JPG

[Wazzobie]

Thanks a whole bunch for the help man it makes a lot more since now. I have never played with hydrolics cylinders till now I love what they can do and I understand what the fluid does to move the ram I just dont know the ins and outs of the amount of force needed to do the job you helped me now I go see what a ag 2.5 or 3" piston ram with aprox 24" stroke go for at the local ag shop + the valve and some custom lines I be building bumpers for all the farm boys around here in no time. hahaha

Scott agian thanks for the help.
Dan:

Dang that new picture that guy posted looks like a pretty sweet set up good job RokHeep!!:D

[RokHeep]

Here's a good shot of the back side for detail. Check out the whole directory for other pictures of the buildup.

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender/DVC00070.JPG

[bigNATE®]

ok, on a 4" cylinder 1800psi is going to net you about 10 tons of useable pressure or 22,620.64# a 3" cylinder will get you just shy of 8 tons and a 2½" will get you 6½-7 tons of pressure

like I have said in previous posts, a stock auto hoist power unit will NOT work for this application 1.10-1.45 GPM is the average volume put out by an auto hoist under load that would make each extention of the ram take 1 minute and 40 seconds on a 4" cylinder, if you could make it work. to get "good" results you need 4 gpm at 2200-2700 psi granted you can play with the reliefs but an auto hoist pump is not designed for much more then 2000#

on the link that Scott posted the specs are 1600# of pressure and 1.4 gpm I believe a powersteering pump puts out the same or more gpm then this.

what I would do is get this pump (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2571030998&category=41484)
and a 2way valve

[guinea13]

I'd rather have what I would do is get <a href="http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502" target="_blank">this pump</a> and use a 1HP electric motor to push it. Then you could push 2 - 4 GPM with a constant pressure of 2300 PSI and an intermitant pressure of 4000 PSI. Then just buy a 4 way valve with a dual action cylinder and you are all set. Well you will still need a reservoir and lines.

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by guinea13
I'd rather have what I would do is get <a href="http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=23502" target="_blank">this pump</a> and use a 1HP electric motor to push it. Then you could push 2 - 4 GPM with a constant pressure of 2300 PSI and an intermitant pressure of 4000 PSI. Then just buy a 4 way valve with a dual action cylinder and you are all set. Well you will still need a reservoir and lines.

With a 1HP motor and that pump you would be pushing all of 0.8GPM @ 2000PSI, 0.4GPM @ 4000PSI. 4GPM @ 2000PSI would require 5HP, 4GPM @ 4000PSI would require 10HP. I would be looking for a 2 stage pump like that used on logsplitters as the best choice.

[jasonmt]

I cannot be the only cheap guy on here who plans to run his setup off my (already paid for) real 5HP motor on my compressor. Just make a sliding base for the motor and extend the platform to make room for the pump. A double sheave pulley on the motor and one for the pump and you are good to go. Slide motor towards the air compressor and lock in place to tighten belt and use the hydro pump and reverse the procedure to use the air compressor. My compressor has a manual bypass switch so I am set to go.

[broncorob]

Hey Rockheep, very nice looking setup. What motor and pump are you running? How thick are the mounting plates that hold the stationary end of the cylinder in place. Doesn't look like more than .25". Thanks
Rob

[RokHeep]

Thanks! I am running the barnes pump & resivour setup from Northern Tool. The top & bottom mounting plates are 3/8's mild steel. I get absolutely no flex out of any of the frame. It is rock solid. I really like the setup and it will bend 2x.120 like it isn't even there. Without having to repin, it makes it really fast to make your bends.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by jasonmt


With a 1HP motor and that pump you would be pushing all of 0.8GPM @ 2000PSI, 0.4GPM @ 4000PSI. 4GPM @ 2000PSI would require 5HP, 4GPM @ 4000PSI would require 10HP. I would be looking for a 2 stage pump like that used on logsplitters as the best choice.

It is cheaper to buy a 5 HP motor or use the one on your compressor than to buy a 2 stage pump.

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by guinea13


It is cheaper to buy a 5 HP motor or use the one on your compressor than to buy a 2 stage pump.

For me the 2 stage pump is around $200 Can. which makes it one of the cheaper options if I decide to buy new. Plus the high volume at low pressures makes for quick approach and retract speeds.

[guinea13]

I am looking to do about 3 GPM at 2300 PSI. This will get let me use the full capacity of this cylinder I want to use at a very good speed.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by jasonmt


With a 1HP motor and that pump you would be pushing all of 0.8GPM @ 2000PSI, 0.4GPM @ 4000PSI. 4GPM @ 2000PSI would require 5HP, 4GPM @ 4000PSI would require 10HP. I would be looking for a 2 stage pump like that used on logsplitters as the best choice.

How do you know what HP motor you need for that pump. I can't even find any information on what size motor for what size pump.

[guinea13]

Did some research and think I found some useful charts for this pump. Does anyone know how to calculate this?

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by guinea13


How do you know what HP motor you need for that pump. I can't even find any information on what size motor for what size pump.
Rule of thumb:
Horsepower=(GPMxPSI)/(1714xEfficency)

So if you want 3 GPM@2300psi(g):

HP=(3GPMx2300psi(g))/(1714x0.95Efficency)
HP=6900/1628.3
HP=4.23 with 5HP being the closest motor.
Use the right graph to figure out what RPM you need to spin the pump with your 4.23/5HP motor to achieve 3GPM@2300psi(g).
From the chart it looks like right around 3000 RPM would acheive what you want (The Red Lines).
Left graph appears to be HP vs. GPM.

[guinea13]

Thanks man, I would have been using the wrong motor and that would have pissed me off.

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by guinea13
Thanks man, I would have been using the wrong motor and that would have pissed me off.

That was why I posted in the first place, wanted to make sure you didn't expect that kind of performance with a 1HP motor.

[Hammer Hog]

Go to ebay and search for Race car tubing bender or go to this link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=633&item=2571446686
I bought this same item and love it. It does the next best bend next to a true manderal bend. However 95 degrees is about as sharp as you can get with it. And it does up to 1.75" x .120 chomemolly.

[RokHeep]

I am not sure of how my setup works out mathematically, but in the real world it kicks ass. It is plenty fast enough without having to hit the handle for a millionth of a second to not go over that last degree. IOW, very controllable. The northern tool part # for the pump is: 105871-B959 (Thanks to Jay for the part#'s and inspiration!) :beer:

[guinea13]

Thanks, But I am in the process of building a Model 6 type bender that will do a 180 one shot bend. I have the plans all set just got to get building. I want to make it so that you can use any type of die (JD2 or ProTools or etc...)

I am going to try using the 5 HP electric motor with the Barnes High pressure pump:

Cubic Inch Size: .258
Flow at 1800 RPM: 2.0
Flow at 3600 RPM: 4.0
Maximum PSI Cont.: 2300
Maximum PSI Intmt.: 4000

I am going for 3 GPM with a pressure of about 2300 - 2500.

[66CJdean]

A model 6 is what I would love to build myself but have no plans on how to do it. Care to share???:D

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by RokHeep
I am not sure of how my setup works out mathematically, but in the real world it kicks ass. It is plenty fast enough without having to hit the handle for a millionth of a second to not go over that last degree. IOW, very controllable. The northern tool part # for the pump is: 105871-B959 (Thanks to Jay for the part#'s and inspiration!) :beer:

As I am cheap, when I am spending my $$$ I like to know ahead of time how and if it is going to work, not just slap it together and hope for the best. They is no such thing as to fast, just not enough control - a spool (flow control) valve will solve any problems with controllability.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by 66CJdean
A model 6 is what I would love to build myself but have no plans on how to do it. Care to share???:D

Well I have some ideas on paper. I will have to try them out before I share (I may be patenting them if it works). I will post progress pics and some details when I start the build up (should be starting this weekend). Go to www.jd2.com and look at the assembly pics of the model 6 bender and you will get alot of ideas on how they built it.

[guinea13]

Hey jasonmt,

You think this will work.

Motor (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=344260&langId=-1)

Pump (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=23502&langId=-1)

Valve (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=37216&langId=-1)

Cylinder Choice 1 (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=48226&langId=-1)

Cylinder Choice 2 (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=200042674&langId=-1)

It should flow at about ~3 GPM with a pressure of ~2500 PSI.

I am debating on the cylinders. Choice 1 offers a 12.03 ton rating but only 18 inches of stroke. Choice 2 offers only an 8.84 ton rating but has 24 inches of stroke. The design will have to change if I use choice 1 but not sure if choice 2 will be enough to handle anything that I throw at it (and No I am not going to literally throw things at it).

[jasonmt]

I am by no means an expert in this, but here are my thoughts:

Motor - That motor is rated 5HP peak, not continuous and has a S.F. of 1. I would consider it a 3HP motor. Hooked up to the pump and running 3000RPM it will likely overheat/blow breaker. This is more to my tastes; notice the difference in weight, S.F. and Amp draw? Motor (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=461&categoryId=6230)

Pump&Valve - good choices for what you want.

Cylinder - Why compromise? You can get cylinders built to practically any application so if you want a 3.5"x24" and Northern tools doesn't have one, buy elsewhere. With 3GPM@2300psi(g) a 3.5"x24" should fully extend in 20 seconds or less. A 4"x24" is approx. 26 seconds if you want to go bigger. With these speeds a spool/flow control valve would be on my list: Spool valve (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=473933&categoryId=1503)

[guinea13]

Good point on the motor. I forgot to look at the SF when choosing a motor. Even with an SF of 1.15 will that motor (Century) be fine running at 3450 RPM on a continous bases with the possibility of mulitple start and stops.

[jasonmt]

The motor I linked to should be fine. It draws enough amps to put out 5HP, The $99 one would only put out enough amps to be about 4.5HP assuming 100% efficency.

[guinea13]

Do you know of any cheaper motor alternatives to get 3 GPM from that pump?

[jasonmt]

That motor at $165 is about the minimum spec. motor I would run. Heat is what is going to kill the motor and the cheaper the motor, the cheaper it is made. I.E. Class A vs. Class B insulation, quality of bearings, S.F. etc. To me $165 is cheap - the 5HP I have on my compressor cost me over $300 but I don't expect to ever have to repair it. I wouldn't spend $99 on a cheap motor because I am positive that I would be repairing/replacing it in a short period of time.

Edit: spelling was atrocious

[broncorob]

Originally posted by jasonmt
That motor at $165 is about the minimum spec. motor I would run. Heat is what is going to kill the motor and the cheaper the motor, the cheaper it is made. I.E. Class A vs. Class B insulation, quality of bearings, S.F. etc. To me $165 is cheap - the 5HP I have on my compressor cost me over $300 but I don't expect to ever have to repair it. I wouldn't spend $99 on a cheap motor because I am positive that I would be repairing/replacing it in a short period of time.

Edit: spelling was atrocious


Yeah, but even with the short cycles that you'll be bending tube?? We're only talking about running it 40 seconds at a time and it's not like you're gonna figure out 15 bends and make them one after another.

[mj]

what the fawk are you selling here bignate?
sounds like a super-spammer kit?



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[jasonmt]

Originally posted by broncorob


Yeah, but even with the short cycles that you'll be bending tube?? We're only talking about running it 40 seconds at a time and it's not like you're gonna figure out 15 bends and make them one after another.

I just consider the extra $65 cheap insurance. Once you go through the cost and inconvience of doing things a second time because you were cheap the first time (speakin about myself) you don't mind spending a few more $$$ to get it right the first time. I personally consider a motor that has ratings that defy the laws of phsics as disposable.

[guinea13]

Hey mj,

what the fawk are you talking about?

I think you are on the wrong thread / topic.

[guinea13]

I guess I am going to have to break down and buy that motor. I don't feel like buying cheap and replacing sooner than I would like to. After doing some research $164 is not a bad price for a motor like this one. The only way I could figure to get it cheaper is to buy it on ebay (then who knows what I will get) or find someone I know that gets a discount. I don't think I would have luck with either.

[guinea13]

Since the total cost of pump, motor, valve, reservoir is over $300 I have been looking at other alternative combinations. One being a 12V DC pump, motor, reservoir for about ~$180.

12V DC combo (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2572099984&category=41484)

[66CJdean]

If you had a 5HP motor laying around you could couple that to a Sagnaw power steering pump and use that with a directional valve. The one thing I could see about that though is you would need to upsize the ram to comensate for the extra flow and low pressure.
An idea maybe?

[U_SAY_GO]

The logic behind this discussion seems a little disfunctional. If you are really looking to do mass production then I can understand the need for a single shot bender, however the time (i.e. $$$ if it is time taken away from production) lost gathering the parts and piecing this thing together will probably end up being a wash versus just sucking it up and buying the right tool for the job. Not to mention the fact that there is a pretty good likelyhood you will end up having some rework in the thing before you really get it right. That's not even considering the time lost trying to get parts when something breaks.

Those statements are made under the assumption that you are trying to produce revenue from this tool. If you are just bending up tube for you and your buddies then this discussion is really off track.....

"Air-over-Hydro is slow" This is relative term and I feel untrue....here are a couple reasons:

I have a JD2 model3 bender that I have owned for about 3 years. The first 2 years I "rowed the boat".....That was slow and even painful at times. I have since converted it to hydraulic and that was money I will never regret spending! It is air-over with a enerpac pump and I forget the make of the cylinder, but it is the expensive one. I got the brackets, pump, cylinder and line for ~$800.

"Repining" the die set does not take hardly any time at all. Anybody that has done much of this can tell you that laying it out, marking it, and setting it up in the bender takes the most time. The bending is the easy part. If you in a big hurry you are just going to end up ruining material and wasting the money you are trying to save. I am not sure of the exact time it takes me to bend a 90, but I can tell you it seems pretty quick when you are watching the degree wheel and trying making sure that you set it up right. Now if you were trying to do production and could setup a jig and such then I could see the value in time saved, but I do pretty much of this and I hardly ever make the same bend twice in a row.

All together I have about $2K in my bender with 3 sets of dies, but it has paid for itself many times over. I found the best customers are import guys that want a "rollbar" in there Honda. I get $500 for a custom bar installed and I can do it in 1 night with 1 guy helping (assuming the interiors already out and they just want a base 4-6 point.)

I'm not trying to bust anybodys chops here, I just have some experience and can say that even though it seems expensive it really is worth the money to do it right the first time.

If you are just looking for personal use and don't need to bend more the 90 degrees (I think I only have once in 3 years even though all my dies are 180) the $880 deal on Ebay is the best value per $ going.....I know a couple people who have use that style bender with very good results.

Just my thoughts......good luck with it!

[jasonmt]

You could get away with the $99 "5HP" motor but you would end up with around 2GPM@2300psi(g) and spinning the hydro pump at 2200RPM in order to not overheat the motor. You seemed pretty set on 3GPM though. The DC power pack you linked is only 1.25GPM and has a single acting valve so you wouldn't have power retract without a different valve. Plus you still need to provide it with 12VDC @ 150A continuous. You are looking at 50 seconds to stroke out a 3.5"x24" cylinder at full pressure.

[guinea13]

Hey,
U_SAY_GO

Thanks for your input, But I am trying to improve on current designs of other benders and make it something of my own. I want the ability to mass produce bends without the hassel of repining dies. Yeah, I know it doesn't take long, but wouldn't you rather just hit a button and let the hydro bend the exact angle you want without you even having to watch or jump in. It would also be alot faster to make say rollbar kits in mash production without having to reset up every time. I am trying to make it similar to the model 6 bender but in my own way. I don't really like the design of the jd2 bender. Don't get me wrong it is a great bender but I just don't like it for me. When I am done it should cost me about $500 - $600 not including a die set. If it works I will have an awesome bender for about 1/6 of the price.

Hey jasonmt,

I am just throwing out ideas. I have seen alot of people using these but I am not to taken on the idea of using a battery or jump box. I have a corporate friend of mine checking on 5HP motors for me(he gets a BBIIIIGGG discount). Also, It is not that I am set on 3 GPM, only that I would like that to be my upper limit so that if I want to dial down I can. I appreciate your help.

[U_SAY_GO]

Like I said, I wasn't tryin to be critical I just don't want to see you waste a bunch of time and money on something that is....well....overkill. You do seem to have some "bigger plans" in mind, so maybe it will be worthwhile for you.

Just out of curiosity how do you intend to build the frame and such. I think that mine is made out of 3/8" stock, so you better get a snickers if you are going to cut it all out without the proper equipment.

[Shrock]

I think the air-hydro is plenty fast for anything but repeat production work. It wasn't until I started doing 20 straight identical bends that I felt it was slow.

I've never timed it, but I guess 30-60 sec for a 90 deg bend. That includes the one retraction and reset needed on my model four.

I do wish it was faster now though. What do people think about the electric hydro setup JD2 sells. It's $895, but spending 2-3 days researching and fiddling isn't worth $300-400 for me. I don't have the time.

from the www site: " The average cylinder retract and re-position time is approximately 8-10 seconds. With the 2 HP pump the Model 4 bender strokes 60 degrees in 6-10 seconds. "

Click "Model 4" then "pictures"

I'm wondering how good the control is with the electric buttons.

If people have other simple suggestions I'm all ears. I'd even pay someone to if they know there shit well enough to pick out a list of parts for something better/cheaper and know it will work. I don't mind a little fabbing if I know I have all the right parts.

[guinea13]

Hey Shrock,

Depending on whether you want it to be 115V/230V or 12VDC there are a couple of options. Here is a link for a 115V option that has a list of all the parts and some plans on how to build.

http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk5/bender

[guinea13]

Originally posted by U_SAY_GO

Just out of curiosity how do you intend to build the frame and such. I think that mine is made out of 3/8" stock, so you better get a snickers if you are going to cut it all out without the proper equipment.

It will be build with 1/4, 1/2, 1 inch steel. I should have enough tools and access to anything that I would need to make it including a milling machine and lathes. It will take alot of snickers and beer.

[Shrock]

Something for the tech section maybe?

http://www.indianafluidpower.com/formulas01.htm

[guinea13]

Thanks, thats a great page for caculations

[OCNORB]

I think you guys are over engineering this thing to death. Yeah it takes alot of pressure , but you have a tremendous amount of leverage with the arm on the model 3 type benders. I used a 12V liftgate pump/reservoir and a 2.5" bore cylinder. It works great, is plenty fast and I only have to re-pin once for 90 degrees. (IF I had found a 24" cyl it would be perfect) . I don't see why you would want to bend any faster than this setup moves?? Here is a link to the pics I have of it.

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=7319&page=2&pp=15&highlight=bender

guinea13- you don't have to spend that kind of money.

I used an old I-beam to mount mine- cheap and VERY rigid.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by 66CJdean
If you had a 5HP motor laying around you could couple that to a Sagnaw power steering pump and use that with a directional valve. The one thing I could see about that though is you would need to upsize the ram to comensate for the extra flow and low pressure.
An idea maybe?

What kind of pressure output from a Saginaw, again?

Is the ~2500psi of the big-bore agricultural tie-rods a possibility?

Guess I need to research the volume of the Saginaw, too..

Who doesn't have a few p/s pumps lying around? :D I even have a small Honda generator motor somewhere...

[guinea13]

Originally posted by OCNORB
[B]I think you guys are over engineering this thing to death. Yeah it takes alot of pressure , but you have a tremendous amount of leverage with the arm on the model 3 type benders. I used a 12V liftgate pump/reservoir and a 2.5" bore cylinder. It works great, is plenty fast and I only have to re-pin once for 90 degrees. (IF I had found a 24" cyl it would be perfect) . I don't see why you would want to bend any faster than this setup moves?? Here is a link to the pics I have of it.

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=7319&page=2&pp=15&highlight=bender


First of all I went to that link and none of the pictures opened up. If you have any pics please post them up so that I can look a them.

I really would rather have 230V system over a 12V DC. I don't really want to have the hassle of having to charge a battery to get my bender to work. I really don't want to make a model 3 type bender. I am trying to make a model 6 style bender your point about leverage will not work for me. I don't think that I am over engineering this design. I need the pressure and tonage to be enough so that I can turn the die. Also, I really want my system to be able to bend without having to repin the die. I know it does not take that much time to repin but it becomes a pain if you are mass produing bends. Most setups that I have seen have bending times between 30 - 60 seconds. That is way to long. I would like to be in the range of 15 - 30 seconds. I know that this system may be somewhat on the expensive side but is fairly cheap when compared to a model 6 bender ($2900 w/o dies). A model 3 with one die set would be around $500 or more and you can't reproduce bends with ease that are exactly the same. Mine will cost about $600 - $700 w/ one die set and will have the ability to reproduce bends over and over again with the push of a button. I am not trying to put your opinion down. I am just trying to give you an understanding of where I am coming from and what I am trying to do. I still would like to see pics of your bender. I may get some other ideas for mine. Thanks for your input.

[broncorob]

Originally posted by guinea13

A model 3 with one die set would be around $500 or more and you can't reproduce bends with ease that are exactly the same. Mine will cost about $600 - $700 w/ one die set and will have the ability to reproduce bends over and over again with the push of a button.

Ok, you've mentioned being able to reproduce bends twice now. How do you expect adding hydraulic power to a bender to give you reproducability at the touch of a button? Especially one as fast as you are talking about.

[guinea13]

I mentioned it twice because some people don't listen and comment on the things that have been stated before. I am just answer the same basic question as stated before.

Exactly like the model 6 does. It has a set screw that you can set your bend angle. The set screw will set where a solenoid or switch or what ever you want to use to a location within the path of the hydraulic ram and will trip when hit and turn off the hydraulics or trip the valve lever or what ever you want to use to stop the hydraulic. Thus, giving you a push button repeatable bend.

[broncorob]

ahhh, clearer now

[guinea13]

Well, what do you think? you would do the same thing with a model 3 bender.

[broncorob]

Originally posted by guinea13
Well, what do you think? you would do the same thing with a model 3 bender.

I think you could basically make something similar to the model 3 with added hydraulics and the solenoid to stop the bends for relatively cheap. I think everything that was discussed above with all the Northern pumps and motors is the way to go. Shouldn't be too expensive to do. I wouldn't try to make a living off of selling it tho. You realize how cheap, err I mean innovative, people are. Most would rather just buy a bender for base price and put together the hydraulics. Even if in the long run they only save a couple of bucks. Hell alot of the time people end up spending more cobbling shit together, but that's the nature of the gear head.

It is a pretty cool idea tho.

[guinea13]

Your right about the cheap part. You just game me an idea for incorporating some parts from a model 3. I am starting to give up (put on hold) my model 6 idea. I may have to give in on not having to repin the die to do 180 deg. bends. Repining may not be that bad, as long as I can put the stoping solenoid in the design I would still be able to produce repeatable bends.

[broncorob]

You could also put together and offer an add on kit for the model 3

[guinea13]

ahhh, Good point, :goofball:

[xj4rocks]

how do the CNC style benders do it? aren't they just strong electric motors? why bother with all the hydro if you want it to be 230v.

http://mtechsales.com/products/Benders/smallbenders.shtml

the ones at the bottom of this page - aren't they electric motor driven? or am I missing something.

[guinea13]

They are Hydraulic will electric pumps. The long round yellow things are hydraulic cylinders. And on the model 6 you can see the electric pump in the left of the picture. The electric motor I need to turn the pump has to be 230v. I haven't seen a 5 hp motor that is 115v.

[Shrock]

Model 6 in action (http://www.mtechsales.com/products/Benders/smallbenders.shtml)

scroll to Model 6 and look for the video link

edit - link

[guinea13]

I saw that video. Pretty neat huh. That is why I want to make a similar one.

[xj4rocks]

I was speaking of the programmable benders at hte bottom of that same page. no yellow cylinders there........

I would guess that between rpms and gearing one could make an electric motor turn that die.

[guinea13]

ahh, I see. I didn't go all the way down. Yes they are electric motors. I have pondered this thought once. I didn't feel like figuring the gearing needed to turn the die at a slow enough rate with enough force to bend a pipe. Although I haven't started building anything yet. Maybe I will take some time and crunch some numbers.

[guinea13]

If I change my GPMs to ~2 I would only need a 3.38 HP motor. Would I be able to use a 5 HP with a SF of 1.00 then? I don't really need it to be 3 GPM.

[broncorob]

Originally posted by guinea13
If I change my GPMs to ~2 I would only need a 3.38 HP motor. Would I be able to use a 5 HP with a SF of 1.00 then? I don't really need it to be 3 GPM.

Listen man, with the short spurts that you're gonna be using it the 1.0 factor 5hp is fine.

[guinea13]

I am just trying to buy once, not buy, break, buy, break....

[broncorob]

Like I said

Originally posted by broncorob


Listen man, with the short spurts that you're gonna be using it the 1.0 factor 5hp is fine.

[big97redtj]

Our Ercolina Megabender is a CNC Electric Gear Driven Bender. No Hydraulic...:D

[guinea13]

You have any specs, pictures of the internals.

Motor size, HP, volts, etc....

[big97redtj]

specs (http://www.ercolina-usa.com/megabender.htm)

[guinea13]

They never tell you how much HP the motor is.

Also, do you have any internal pics of the bender.

[big97redtj]

I haven't had a chance to crack the case yet, but I'll look to see if I have pictures floating around from before we bought it.

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by guinea13
If I change my GPMs to ~2 I would only need a 3.38 HP motor. Would I be able to use a 5 HP with a SF of 1.00 then? I don't really need it to be 3 GPM.

Originally posted by jasonmt
You could get away with the $99 "5HP" motor but you would end up with around 2GPM@2300psi(g) and spinning the hydro pump at 2200RPM in order to not overheat the motor.

My problem with this motor (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&productId=344260&langId=-1) lies not with the S.F. but more with its rating of 5HP at 15A/230V. 15Ax230V=3450Watts. 1HP=746 watts, 3450W/746W=4.6HP@100% Eff. No motor is going to be 100% efficient and with it being a cheap motor lets assume it is 70% efficient so 4.62HPx0.7Eff=3.23Hp.

To get 2GPM@2300psi(g) you will need approx. 2.9HP, If you use the formula HP=GPM X PSI X .0007 it assumes a pump efficiency of 84%. The pump you mentioned earlier has an efficiency of 95% which the formula I posted earlier uses in the calculation. The pump curves you have posted indicates around 3HP required for 2GPM@2300psi(g).

The other detail to keep in mind is that you need to ensure that the pump is properly geared to the motor for your HP and GPM. For 2GPM@2300psi(g) the pump should be spinning at 2200RPM with it requiring 3HP. For 3GPM@2300psi(g) the pump should be spinning at 3000RPM with it requiring 5HP. If you have a 3HP motor and gear the pump to spin at 3000RPM it will be mismatched and will result in numerous problems.

I don't agree with the mentality of "You are only going to use it for short spurts so it will be fine” How do you know? My idea of light use might be entirely different than someone else’s.

Little bit more info for you:

Most electric motors are designed to run at 50% to 100% of rated load. Maximum efficiency is usually near 75% of rated load. Thus, a 10-horsepower (hp) motor has an acceptable load range of to 10 hp; peak efficiency is at 7.5 hp. A motor’s efficiency tends to decrease dramatically below about 50% load. However, the range of good efficiency varies with individual motors and tends to extend over a broader range for larger motors. A motor is considered under loaded when it is in the range where efficiency drops significantly with decreasing load. Power factor tends to drop off sooner, but less steeply than efficiency, as load decreases.

Overloaded motors can overheat and lose efficiency. Many motors are designed with a service factor that allows occasional overloading. Service factor is a multiplier that indicates how much a motor can be overloaded under ideal ambient conditions. For example, a 10-hp motor with a 1.15 service factor can handle an 11.5-hp load for short periods of time without incurring significant damage. Although many motors have service factors of 1.15, running the motor continuously above rated load reduces efficiency and motor life. Never operate overloaded when voltage is below nominal or when cooling is impaired by altitude, high ambient temperature, or dirty motor surfaces.

Edit: attached wrong graph.

[guinea13]

In changing the GPM from 3 to 2 I decided to change the type of pump.

Pump (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=31141)

When using this pump and doing the calculations you will find that a 5 HP motor being only ~70% efficient (3.5 HP) should work just fine.

GPM = 3450 x .129 /231 = 1.93 GPM at 2500 PSI

HP = 1.93 x 2500 x .0007 = 3.38 HP

jasonmt,
I can understand your point of using that motor with a 3 GPM pump because it will overload/overheat. But changing the configuration slightly makes the motor useable for this configuration. I am trying to make a stable setup but don't really want to spend the bank on just a motor. Yes, I am going to the cheap route but that is the way that the majority of us go because we don't have unlimited funds to do some of the things we would rather do.

My question is do you think this setup will hold up or do you think that I will still have overload/overheating issues. I would rather buy once and forget it but am trying to do this on a budget. But if this motor is going to be problems. I will have to spring for the more expensive/reliable one.

[k5ryanNC]

has anyone tried to mount a 36inch ram on one of these benders...... if so how much extra fluid would i need to run it...

i learned alot from this thead and have purchased a pro tools 105 and the log splitter valve hoses and other fittings...

no i need to get the ram and power pack....

reason on the 36inch ram is my buddy has contacts with a hydrolic shop and can get me one for 50bucks ...it's a 3inch bore with a 2500 pressure limit

any help would help greatly .....thanks
ready to get this thing makin me some money.....:flipoff2:

[guinea13]

You can calcuate the amount of fluid it will take by calculating the cyclinder volume:

If I am right that cylinder will hold about .93 gallons of fluid.

[k5ryanNC]

what kind of power pack did you end up using for your set up?

[guinea13]

I was going to use a 5 HP motor and a norther tool hydro pump, but decided on using either a 12V DC motor pump valve combo unit or a 110V version of the same thing.

Something like one of these
Combo Power Unit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2575592161&category=41484&rd=1)

[k5ryanNC]

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003112422170355&item=9-4106-A&catname=hydraulic

this sucka looks to be pretty stout and at a good price too

let me know what you think!!!

we definately all need to go wheelin

a buddy of mine went this past weekend and now wants me to build him a tube bed and doors....
crushed both and broke out a window in one trip...he drives to unconcered about body damage:flipoff2:

[guinea13]

You have 3 phase power. If so must be nice. To expensive to setup for me. That power unit seems nice. You will need a 4 way valve to run a double action cylinder. But all in all it seems to be pretty good.

[RokHeep]

Damn! You guys are making this way too difficult. Get the barnes motor,pump,resivour setup from Northern tool. A 3" x 24" ram, valve and hoses. Done. Look at the pictures on my website to get an idea of how I did it. It kicksass and will do single shot bends of ~120 to 130 degrees.

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender/DVC00065.JPG

[guinea13]

I was just giving him advise on setting up his system with what he had.

[LAME]

Originally posted by RokHeep
Damn! You guys are making this way too difficult. Get the barnes motor,pump,resivour setup from Northern tool. A 3" x 24" ram, valve and hoses. Done. Look at the pictures on my website to get an idea of how I did it. It kicksass and will do single shot bends of ~120 to 130 degrees.


On your RokHeep page? Nothing there but rig stuff:confused:

What do you mean by "single shot" 120-130 seems a bit far of a bend for a 24" cyl w/o repinning, unless you have really tight radius dies...

[guinea13]

Originally posted by RokHeep
Damn! You guys are making this way too difficult. Get the barnes motor,pump,resivour setup from Northern tool. A 3" x 24" ram, valve and hoses. Done. Look at the pictures on my website to get an idea of how I did it. It kicksass and will do single shot bends of ~120 to 130 degrees.


Are you using ATF in your pump. If so, what kind are you using? Dextron III, Synthetic? I am looking at buying a power unit that uses ATF but am not sure of what kind of ATF to use.

[guinea13]

Originally posted by LAME


On your RokHeep page? Nothing there but rig stuff:confused:

What do you mean by "single shot" 120-130 seems a bit far of a bend for a 24" cyl w/o repinning, unless you have really tight radius dies...

In his picture he shows a right angle triangle that show that he can produce a single bend greater than 90 degrees (approx 120 - 130 degrees) without having to repin the die. Most people that have a hydro setups with 24 inch rams can bend from 105 to 130 degrees depending on how they setup the ram. I know of a guy that can bend almost 180 with a 36 inch ram.

[KrebsATM02]

Originally posted by LAME


On your RokHeep page? Nothing there but rig stuff:confused:

What do you mean by "single shot" 120-130 seems a bit far of a bend for a 24" cyl w/o repinning, unless you have really tight radius dies...

I just right clicked his picture and got the source from it. Here is the parent directory, I couldn't find a write up, just pics.

Hydro bender (http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender)

[RokHeep]

Lame:
Here's the address. The pictures aren't in any order, just random.

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender

Guinea,
I am using standard ATF, I am not sure what brand. It works great.

If you guys want any other detailed pictures, let me know and I will try to get some later tonight. :beer: to all! :)

[guinea13]

Can you give me a full top shot (whole bender) of the bender fully opened and fully closed.

Also, is that a Chief or Prince Ram?

[LAME]

Originally posted by guinea13


In his picture he shows a right angle triangle that show that he can produce a single bend greater than 90 degrees (approx 120 - 130 degrees) without having to repin the die. Most people that have a hydro setups with 24 inch rams can bend from 105 to 130 degrees depending on how they setup the ram. I know of a guy that can bend almost 180 with a 36 inch ram.

I'm not too sure. The 1.5" dies probably travels 20-30 degrees before the bend actually starts, on mine, also you have spring back. Mine will bend about 85* with the 1.5", and about 100* with a 2". I haven't done any 1.75" bending to know where that ends up. The ram on my junk isn't set up so much as to produce a said angle in a single stroke, but the best mechanical advantage at the start of the bend. To maxamize the amount of bend per stroke with my set up, it also adds a shit load of stress on the bender mounting bolts, and not much mechanical advantage on the bending arm.

So I guess there are lots of variables to how far you can bend on a single stroke, it just depends what are the most important criteria the builder wants to address when they are building the bender.

[LAME]

Originally posted by RokHeep
Lame:
Here's the address. The pictures aren't in any order, just random.

http://www.hatleberg.com/donovan/Hydrobender


Nice set up:)

[guinea13]

LAME,

You got any pics of your setup.

Your right there are alot of variables in building a bender, trust me I have been doing alot of research on this topic for a while now and I feel like every day I find a new problem or something else to stop my progress. But I think I now have everything all set and am going to buy and start building.

[LAME]

Originally posted by guinea13
LAME,

You got any pics of your setup.

Your right there are alot of variables in building a bender, trust me I have been doing alot of research on this topic for a while now and I feel like every day I find a new problem or something else to stop my progress. But I think I now have everything all set and am going to buy and start building.

No good pics. Pretty much copied ROKTOYS design. I can get some pics, and toss out what I would redo if I was to build again. It works pretty good now, so it'll be left alone for a while.

[MillerMan]

http://community.webshots.com/user/millerman101

Here is our's!!!

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[guinea13]

Hey MillerMan, Nice shots.


Question.

I am in the process of buying this power unit and a very good price. It has the valving, switch, motor, and will come with a 2 gallon reservoir. The only possible problem, which I don't know if it will be a problem, is that the NPT ports are 1/4 inch. Will this be a problem.


Here is the power unit I am buying ( not at that price):

Power Unit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2575592037&category=41484)

[LAME]

Here is my booty fab bull shit

[LAME]

more

[LAME]

fucker might look like Barney, but the bitch is fast

[LAME]

another. Here is the 11gpm log splitter pump on the $15 garage sale motor.

[LAME]

enough already

[k5ryanNC]

that thing is freakin awesome....

that motor and pump must be stout.....(is it to fast???)

11gpm pump wow!!!

you rock:flipoff2:

i'd like to do the motor and pump your way with the seperate resiovior (have acess to so many motors and pumps it's insane to pick one just need some help gettin the right one the first time

how many hp and what rpm does that motor run at....
any specs....

found a pump like yours:http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=471

but it says to have a 5hp motor to run the thing
which motor from northern should i get to run it???
110 220 whatever just not 3 phase sorry for the trouble

[71RCKCRZR RYAN]

:D

[71RCKCRZR RYAN]

:flipoff2:

[71RCKCRZR RYAN]

got all my pn's from the mindspring link......works killer..

i have it setup so if i want a 90 bend i run it till it runs the ram all the way out...comes to a stop at exactly 90 deg...

[guinea13]

Nice setups. That one with log splitter pump may be a little overboard. That is alot of GPMs for bending tube.

k5ryanNC,

That pump has a min of 5HP. I would go with a 12V DC unit that pumps 1.25 GPM. This is the cheapest way to build and sometimes in some cases the best.

[guinea13]

I am in the process of buying this power unit and a very good price. It has the valving, switch, motor, and will come with a 2 gallon reservoir. The only possible problem, which I don't know if it will be a problem, is that the NPT ports are 1/4 inch. Will this be a problem.

Any one with any Hydraulic experience is welcome to answer.


Here is the power unit I am buying ( not at that price):

Pump Unit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2575592037&category=41484)

[LAME]

It's a Baldor 1.5hp, 110/220, 1ph, I guess the long body electric motor is good for torque? Hell if I know. Yeah, it's over kill, but you don't have to open the valve full on;) I'll have to ask Mike to make sure it is 11GPM, IIRC it was only around $50-60, not $100 like the one k5ryan linked.

71RCKCRZR RYAN's rig is pretty cool, but I like having the fat bastard frame, when there is 15' of tube hanging out of the bender.:)

[tsm1mt]

I'm curious about the swinging ram, vs. everyone else's design where the far end of the ram is "fixed" and pivots around, vs. the "near" end..

Looks like hinging the ram (at the base of the rod) would provide more mechanical advantage, since you're pushing at ~90-deg even starting at 0.

OTOH, is it trying to bend the rod as you get to where the ram isn't 90-deg to the die/arm?

[guinea13]

Are you talking about the ones like the JD2 hydraulic benders? I don't really see an advantage to this.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by guinea13
Are you talking about the ones like the JD2 hydraulic benders? I don't really see an advantage to this.

I was referring to MillerMan's bender..

http://community.webshots.com/s/image5/8/50/86/61585086CtkOXL_ph.jpg

I think the design would give more UMPH at the start of the bend (when you don't need it), but I wonder if the piston of the ram sees a bending force that the "fixed far end" setups don't see.

[guinea13]

ok, But there still is no real mechanical advantage. If you start at zero you will still only be able to throw the ram 24 inches (or as long as the ram throws), which will net the same amount of bend angle.

[guinea13]

And the building begins....

I got orders a bunch of parts and now I can start building.

1 - Double Action 12 V DC pump, electric valve, remote , 2 gal reservoir - $300

1 - Prince 3 x 24 Double Action 3000 PSI Cylinder - $125

10 - Hose Fitting - $54

2 - 2 wire 1/2 hydraulic lines - $24

1 - (frame)Premade 1/4 steel saw horse - $20

1 - 6' x 24' 1 inch steel plate - Freebie

1 - 4' x 4' 3/8 inch steel plate - Freebie

Knowing that you will have a bad ass bender or a pile of junk
------ Priceless

[MountaineerMac]

Great thread. Keep us posted as you get things assembled. :)

[guinea13]

Will do.

I am fabbing the bender arms tonight. Will take pics alone the way and post them. I hopefully will have it assembled (minus the die- got to come up with $200 to buy it) and tested by the weekend.

[k5ryanNC]

got my power unit today but i need to make a res for the hydro fluid...

got one ? though i bought a part #2011 instead of a 2010 am i going to run into probs because they where out of the 2010 and they said they were 3-4 weeks out what a bunch of crap!!!

now all i need is the ram

do you think a 4x30 is overkill???

and where are your picks ....

you should be done by now you pro:flipoff2: ha ha!

[guinea13]

Yes, 4 x 30 is overkill. Make sure you check to see what the column load is on the cylinder. I almost bought a 3 x 30 and found out that the column load is only 8700 lbs. I was afraid I would bend the rod so I didn't buy that one. All though with a 4 x 30 I beleave it is around 21000 lbs., which is way more than enough.

I got all the arms cut out. I am going to my work to use the milling machine, vertical lathe to drill and clean up cuts.

The plates are 3/4 inch thick. I know this is overkill but all I had was 3/8 plates so I doubled them up and welded them together.

I will have some pics when I am done milling and cleaning them up. Maybe a day or 2. Depends on if I can get the time on the mills. What is so funny? I don't see pics of your stuff :flipoff2: ha ha.

I never said I was a pro. I just did alot of reading and listening. Hey, it got me this far. And it seems to be helping out some people. :)

You will run into problems trying to use a 3 way valve on a double acting cylinder. I am sure that you could find a 4 way valve some where else. Try Prince Hydraulics.

I just bought my ram from prince hydraulics. I checked out there closeout stuff and called to by a ram at a killer deal. BUT there were none left. But he gave me a great deal on a Price 3" x 24" 3000 PSI ram (Brand new) 3 year general warrenty and 7 year on rod corrosion. You should give them a call.

Sorry don't have a res. You could buy a 5 gallon can of hydraulic fluid and use that as a res. (cheap way). Or just look at northern selection. They have a couple to choose from. Oh, and by the way be prepared to spend about 100 bucks on fittings and lines. That is one of the reason I went with pump with everything on it. That way I only need two lines and some fittings, which only cost me $54.

[guinea13]

Can anyone confirm the measurements on these two drawings. I will be milling tonight or tomorrow and don't want to make a mistake on the hole placements. This is for a JD2 Model 3 style bender.


Diagram Link (http://www.exm.netfirms.com/bender.htm)

[KrebsATM02]

I've been following this thread and doing my own research. I found a 110 volt pump on ebay and with shipping it will be $110.

I think total cost should be around 350.

Has any one seen this ram?? It is cheap and looks to be what we need. Anyone see a reason we can't use it?

Cheap ram (http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003120213284263&item=9-6070-324&catname=hydraulic)

[guinea13]

Never heard of that ram but the specs seem good.

Is that $350 to set up a bender as hydro or to make/buy a bender and then make it hydro.

Remember you will need valve, lines, reservoir.

It get expensive quick. I thought I had it all figured out till I went out and bought fittings. And I got off cheap because I didn't have a manual 4-way valve that would need lines coming and lines going out.

I think mine will cost $550 + $200 for a die set.

[KrebsATM02]

350 just for the hydro part. I bought a protools 105 with 1.75 die for around 500. At the time buying the swing arms, etc... was a better deal for me.

Now I'm just trying to make it hydraulic for cheap. I'd seriously watch ebay though. About every 2-3 weeks a hydraulic pump that is 110 volts ac, single phase comes up for a decent price. The 3 phase one's go for even cheaper. Too bad most of us don't have 3 phase. I think I could get it, but it's $20 extra a month and I don't have much of a use for it now. Maybe in the future if I start getting machine shop equipment.

So that ram looks good? I can't see it going bad even if it is cheap for the little use it will get.

[guinea13]

Trust me I am a very avid ebay watcher. I never could find what I was looking for (too picky). Well that is till now. I found my power unit on ebay and worked a deal out with the seller. I think I got a pretty good deal for what I got ( am getting, still in the mail).

Trust me I think we all want to make it cheap. Hydro's aren't cheap.

The ram looks fine to me. The only thing that worries me is if you have a problem are you screwed or do they have a warrenty. Also, try to find out what the column load for that cyclinder is. If it is too low you may bend the cylinder if you are trying to bend heavy metal.

[KrebsATM02]

Here is the motor, pump, and resevoir from ebay I got.

Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2575919719)

The guy is now selling the 2 rams that it was used with. They are actually 24" in length but only single acting. I'm going to take out the solenoid valve and plumb a return line in.

The valve I'm looking at is cheap, but is has 3/4" npt and I'm think I need more like 3/8". Have to see how much the reducer are, 4 of them could offset the cheapness of the valve.

Do you see any problem in using a valve with ports that big? I'm really new to hydraulics so I'm not sure if this is a problem.

Thanks - Doug

[guinea13]

I actually was looking at that pump last week. I didn't bid because I didn't see any specs on GPM or pressure. and it looked really old.

I don't really think there would be a problem with the size of of the ports. My pump ports are 1/4 NPT and my cylinder ports are 3/4 - 16 SAE. I am going with 1/2 line. So, I had some reducing and upsizing to do to mate it all together. But I did find all of the parts. Just not at NortherTool. I had to go to a local hydraulic shop.

Vince

[The Fleckster]

The tube sticking out of the end is removable and is a lifting handle. I still need to add the wheels to the other end so it rolls. I have flat botums with jack screws so i can level it where ever i go. The wheels will only touch the ground when you lift up on the handle, that way it does not roll around on ya. I tried to put most of the weight at the back that the stand holds to counter act the front weight with a stick of tube in it. Its 110 volt and will do the standard 105-130 degree bend single shot using the 2.5" by 24" stroke Prince cyclinder. I used ATF fluid for pushing it.

[The Fleckster]

another

[The Fleckster]

again

[The Fleckster]

more

[The Fleckster]

diff shot

[The Fleckster]

Last

[guinea13]

That's the color I wanted to paint my frame. Guess I will make it orange.

[k5ryanNC]

didn't mean to come off mean i was just pickin with ya and your right i do need to buy that little red star!!!

all i need to do is exchange the 3 way valve for a 4 way and buy a ram got the motor fittings and resivoir!!!

i can get the 4x30 ram for $100 3000psi and is a prince!!
i am also running the 11gpm pump as the other guy on this post!!!!

just don't know if i should wait till a 36inch ram comes up or grab this one while it's HOT!!!

thanks for all the help and i'll post pics as soon as i can!!!:flipoff2:

[guinea13]

I was just joking also.

I was thinking about that ram. But it's way to big for me. I don't want to have to get a larger reservoir to carry the extra fluid I would need. I wouldn't go with a 36 inch ram. They have a low column load when they are stroking beyond 20 inches. It may bend the ram if you don't support the end where the ram comes out.

Update, I sent my plate to be cut into shape (because my company wouldn't let me touch the machine, liability issues). Now I am in the wait stage. When I get them back I will clean them up and send them back so they can mill the holes. Man I wish I had a milling machine and a vertical bandsaw. I hope they give me the plate back before the weekend.

Also, I hope I didn't get screwed on the pump. I haven't gotten a tracking number yet and am getting worried. Will see. Price sent my cylinder out late so now I will not get it till next week. This sucks.

On a good note I bought a Playstation 2 for $27.

[Eric]

Hey Fleckster,

Did you use all of the same parts as Jay did?
JayK's bender (http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk5/bender/)

[guinea13]

Pumps in the mail. Guy felt bad for sending it late, so he sent it two day. That way it would get here by Friday. Now the only sucky part is that I have to wait till Monday for the cylinder. Guess I can work on the brackets that hold the pump.

[LAME]

Fleckster, double shear the bender mount, you are gonna tear the bolts right off in single shear. Ask me how I know:D

[k5ryanNC]

got the 4x30 inch ram today for $50 bucks!!!

exchange the 3way for a 4way and a resivor and i'm set ..........well xcept for the frame and another set of dies!!

what stage are you guys at with your benders???

[jasonmt]

I am still looking for a used rack and pinion actuator to use with mine. If I cannot find one before we go to make dies we will have to use a ram.

http://www.flo-tork.com/pix/fth_cutaway.gif

[k5ryanNC]

did you get your bender flats milled yet???

goin tomm when i'm off to exchange the 3way valve and find a res.

let me know of your progress!!!:flipoff2:

[guinea13]

No, And glad I didn't the drawings were not consistent with a JD2 Model 3 bender arms.

CAN ANYONE POST A PICS OF JD2 MODEL 3 BENDER ARMS WITH MEASUREMENTS?

I have a couple of people checking on this and need to get these measurements correct. The arms were going to be shaped by Monday and I need to verify that the shape is still correct.

I am going to try and post so pics of the frame and pump tonight. Ram comes in on Monday so I will have to wait to mount that. But I will post a pic of what it will look like mounted.

[guinea13]

Pic1

[guinea13]

pic2

[guinea13]

pic3

[guinea13]

Last pic

[k5ryanNC]

looks good man i can't wait till i get to start on mine!!

you've got me excited!!:flipoff2:

let us now the measurements once you get them for us !!

[guinea13]

Will do once I get them.

I wish I had someone close to me so that I could just go to there house and measure it myself.

I can't wait to get the measurements so that I can finish the arms.

[guinea13]

Well I got the measurements thanks to geargrinder.

One of the plates got cut using the old measurements. So, now I have to recut one plate. No biggy. Got my friend who I am building one for to make one this morning.

They should be cut out by this afternoon.

Also, Cylinder is in (Finally). Will be picking that up this afternoon.

Now I can actually start doing some work.

[k5ryanNC]

what are going to make the bender pins out of??

and can you send me the measurements??

ryansblueblazer@yahoo.com

thanks man and sorry i couldn't help ya out more!!

[guinea13]

I called Jd2 (there number is on there site www.jd2.com) and ordered the pins. I didn't feel like making them. I ordered 3 pins and the sleeves for the bolts for $48.93 (shipped). When I get them I will get the measurements if you want them else just order them though the company.

[xj4rocks]

i'd appreciate it if you could send me the plate dimensions also. I have a dwg I scammed from somewhere but i'd like to check it's accuracy before I go cutting.

xj4rocks at excite.com thanks.

[guinea13]

Tried to send them to you but I have to clean my email up or it will not let me send it.

So,
I posted a link to these diagrams:

JD2 Model 3 Bender Arms Measurements (http://www.exm.netfirms.com/Bender/Diagrams.htm)

[xj4rocks]

great!

[geargrinder]

Damn, I hope I measured right. The list is growing of people who will be pissed if I didn't.:eek:

[jwag]

Here is a pic of mine. It now has a handle and two wheels like fleckster's. When it is level the tubing notcher is also plumb. The cylinder cost me $70 at harbor freight and it does 50 something degree's in one shot. My 2hp 30 gallon compressor can keep up with it just fine. (its and air/oil cylinder)

[guinea13]

Originally posted by geargrinder
Damn, I hope I measured right. The list is growing of people who will be pissed if I didn't.:eek:

I hope so, I got 2 sets being milled.:confused:

[gde]

BTW, what kind of hydraulic fluid you all using? I have a power unit in the mail from Northern and need to know what everyone else is using.

[guinea13]

I am using 10 weight Hydraulic fluid. Some say to use ATF or light hydraulic fluid. It all depends on your pump and cylinder. Some companies want you to stay away from ATF fluids because it will break down the packing (seals) in the cylinder. My pump say for me to use ATF or light weight hydraulic fluid, so that is why I am using 10 weight.

[gde]

First off, I would like to say that I have found this site to be extremely useful so thanks to all that have contributed. I do have some other questions that I hope someone can help me with.
1) Can someone e-mail or explain the wiring diagram for the Haldex Barnes Power Unit from Northern Tool? This is the same unit that Jay K used for his bender. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the inside of the panel means. There were no "directions" for the electrical portion.
2) As far as priming(purging) the whole system as to get air out of the lines, what needs to be done?

As you can tell, I don't have a freakin' clue when it comes to either electricity or hydraulics.

[guinea13]

On the part of bleeding, I was told to run the cylinder in and out about 5 times. This will push all of the air out of the lines.

[guinea13]

I just got the arms back. They look beautiful. Those guys do a hell of a job making those arms.

There was a correction I made on the drawings that greargrinder sent me. On the moveable arm the holes that are stated to 1.040 inches from the bottom are accutally 1.040 from the top. You will notice this because the center line shown is 1.250 inches and 1.040 is not bigger than 1.250. The drawings are still on my site and have been updated.

I will have hopefully post pics tonight on the arms.

[AthlonAJ]

Originally posted by gde
First off, I would like to say that I have found this site to be extremely useful so thanks to all that have contributed. I do have some other questions that I hope someone can help me with.
1) Can someone e-mail or explain the wiring diagram for the Haldex Barnes Power Unit from Northern Tool? This is the same unit that Jay K used for his bender. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the inside of the panel means. There were no "directions" for the electrical portion.
2) As far as priming(purging) the whole system as to get air out of the lines, what needs to be done?

As you can tell, I don't have a freakin' clue when it comes to either electricity or hydraulics.
Look for my post I just made ...

HERE (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=204382)

[guinea13]

Well here are the pictures of the arms and bender (so far). We made two sets on for me and another for a friend of mine. I slapped it together to get a good look at things before welding. The bottom plate is thin because it will be welded to the table and the table is 1/4 inch thick.

I put the large pics on my site:
http://www.exm.netfirms.com/bender.htm

[guinea13]

Image 2

[guinea13]

Image 3

[guinea13]

Image 4

[guinea13]

Image 5

[guinea13]

Image 6

[k5ryanNC]

have you bent somethin up yet !!!!!

it's been a couple days come-on let us know if it works!!!!!

:flipoff2:

[guinea13]

No not yet. Went to order the die on Friday but they were closed. I am ordering a 1 3/4 inch die on Monday. So it will be a little longer.

Here is an action shot:

[71RCKCRZR RYAN]

nice:cool:

you should definatly brace the top of the bolts where it is mounted.....betwwen the weight on the ram hanging on the bender when its opened and the force it takes to bend tubing it will move around a tad...

;)

[guinea13]

Your right. I haven't finished it yet. I am also welding the bottom plate to the table so it shouldn't move much at all. I love the size of it. :( :rolleyes: :p :) ;) :eek: :emb4: :flipoff2:

[cebby]

This thread is exactly why this place is great! Tons of awesome tech!

Prince has a closeout section on their website (http://www.princedirect.com/pages/3000psi_tierod.html). They are listing a 3000 PSI Tierod style 3 x 30 for $119. Would this work with the setups in this thread? I want to go beyond 105 deg in one pass.

[guinea13]

That is the cylinder that I almost bought but didn't because the column load rating was too low. I would go with a 3 1/2 or 4" bore if beyond 30 inches. I can do between 120 and 130 on one pass.

[cebby]

Thanks - they also have a 4 x 30. To move this much fluid, what pump do you think would work better?

This one (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=322055&categoryId=1502)

Or

This one (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=31157&categoryId=1502)

EDIT: Or are they both no good?

[guinea13]

The second link doesn't come in. Send me the links and I will let you know.

[KrebsATM02]

Ok, so that pump I bought off of ebay works fine, but the second port which I thougth was a return line is actually for an electric solenoid that controls the valve.

So, my question is can I weld a fitting onto the resevoir to use as a return line? Also, there there are 2 fitting's on the resevoir. One is obviousley the fill hole, but I don't know what the small hole, closest to the pump is for? Could I use that for the return line rather than welding one on, or is there an actual purpose for this.

http://www.offroadrepublic.com/gallery/albums/albun73/aad.sized.jpg


I guess the real question is can a return line go into the resevoir. I know they are low pressure, so I don't see a problem with it, but I know jack shit about hydraulics so I could be completely wrong.

Edit: Fixed the pic

[Lance Morin]

Originally posted by KrebsATM02
So, my question is can I weld a fitting onto the resevoir to use as a return line? Also, there there are 2 fitting's on the resevoir. One is obviousley the fill hole, but I don't know what the small hole, closest to the pump is for? Could I use that for the return line rather than welding one on, or is there an actual purpose for this.

The small hole is mostly likely for pressure relief if something were to happen. Many of the double acting cylinders have 3 ports for this reason.

[KrebsATM02]

Originally posted by Lance Morin


The small hole is mostly likely for pressure relief if something were to happen. Many of the double acting cylinders have 3 ports for this reason.

It just has a plug in it.

So can I use it for a return line?

[guinea13]

I was told by Prince that the 3rd hole on the cylinders is just another mounting point for a hose. I used mine to tap a pressure gauge on.

[cebby]

Originally posted by guinea13
The second link doesn't come in. Send me the links and I will let you know.

Fixed the 2nd Link. :D

[guinea13]

One thing I will tell everyone. If you make the arms yourself. Don't make the holes exactly the size of the drawings. Make a hair bigger. Mine were so tight that if the arms were tweaked just a hair they would not fit. So I sanded the inside of them to be more tolerant of tweaking. I also change my idea of using a 3/4 bolt with a 1 inch sleeve on the part where the ram connects to the bender arm. I am only using the 3/4 bolt now. This lets me pull the main die pin in and out easily. This is due to the tight fit of the pins. I will test some bends and see if the bolt holds up. If it doesn't I will use a 15/16 OD sleeve so that the arms can bend a hair. Here is a pic of the arms with the 3/4 bolt on it. You can see on the top of the arm there is the 1" sleeve.

[guinea13]

Also, Here is how I resupported the top of the fixed arms and the bottom of the fixed arms. I weld the bottom arms to the table because they are only 3/8 thick. Plus this will help with tweaking. The top arms have a 3/8 plate that is bolted into place on the rear two bolts. If you think I need more let me know.

[guinea13]

The rear of the ram is supported using 15/16 steel plate and 3/8 steel plate. I don't think it will move but I may add side plates to stengthen it up.

[pendy]

Been following this thread since the beginning. Guinea your project is looking very stout so far. Good Job.

I am really interested to hear how well it bends tube. I have been scouting for parts for a hydro bender for about 6 months now. I have new ideas about what I want when I see the progression of yours.

With the 12V motor setup a stand alone ram and pump with controller could have many uses. I have plans to make a setup similar to yours. The ram and pump will be removeable to use for a dump trailer I am building. I may make the ram on the side of the dump box for easy mounting. I may also use the ram to run a hoist that mounts on the side of my front loader. A removeable hydraulic engine hoist.

The only thing I am waiting to hear from you is how the buttons controlling the pump allow you to bend tube. The flow valve many of the other examples use seems more forgiving. And some of the high powered pumps and motors used have been very powerful compared to your system. I wonder how fast the 1/4" hydraulic system you have implemented will be. I have no doubt your bender will work for you. You have really done a lot of homework to come up with this plan. But please let us know what type of performance it has.

Once again great job.

[guinea13]

Thanks man, I ordered my die today and it will be 2 weeks before it even ships. The 1/4 hydraulic system should work great it has a 3.25 GPM with no load and a 1.25 GPM under full load at 3200 PSI. It works real nice I can't wait to see it bend myself. The buttons works great don't really know what you mean. They start the ram when I press and stop exactly when I let go.

[KrebsATM02]

So does anyone know if I can have a return line go directly into the resevoir???

[guinea13]

Originally posted by LAME
more
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2185866





If you have a manual valve you can plumb the return line into the tank as long as there is no pressure involved. If you look at the picture that lame has he pumped the return line into the tank.

[KrebsATM02]

Kickass! Thanks, I was pretty sure it was fine, but I wanted some other advice! I'll order the rest of my crap today! I plan on bending a cage for a friend in the beggining of January so I'll post pics then.

[KrebsATM02]

Ok, I got excited and bought the rest of the parts all new from surplus center.

Order Number: N0010964

Thank you for your order. Your order will be shipped via USPS 4TH CLASS PARCEL POST, to the shipping address below. Please print this page out for your records


1 in stock 1 SPOOL 25 GPM PRINCE LS30301 OC VALVE Item # 9-1517
1 in stock 3X24X1.5 FIELDMATE TIE ROD HYD CYLINDER Item # 9-6070-324
2 in stock 1/2" X 24" 1/2 NPTM X 1/2 NPTM 1 BRAID HYD HOSE Item # 905-1224
2 in stock 1/2" X 36" 1/2 NPTM X 1/2 NPTM 2 BRAID HYD HOSE Item # 917-2236
2 in stock 1501-6-8 3/8"X1/2" M/F R.A. SWIVEL Item # 9-1923
2 in stock 1501-12-8 3/4"X1/2" M/F R.A. SWIVEL Item # 9-1612
4 in stock 1501-8-8 1/2" M/F R.A. SWIVEL Item # 9-1039
4 in stock 3" DIA. X 1 13/16" SWIVEL PLATE CASTER Item # 1-1195
Pricing
Subtotal: $219.11
Tax: $.00
Shipping: $.00
Handling: $1.95
Total Cost: $221.06

Plus $110 for the used hydraulic pump off of ebay.

So I'm in $330 total for the hydraulic's part of the bender and 4 casters. I'll use scrap steal for the cart. Other than that I need a few small things like a couple bolts, a switch, and few other thigns.

I'll get to building it when the parts come in, hopefully right after the new year!

[James_Fendley]

Santa came yesterday, Not sure if I like the 120* 1 3/4" die . May return it for a 180 or 240. Now if I can find a cylinder, pump, tank and valve.

James

[guinea13]

Originally posted by KrebsATM02


2 in stock 1/2" X 24" 1/2 NPTM X 1/2 NPTM 1 BRAID HYD HOSE Item # 905-1224


I hope your not using this line for a pressure line. Single braid is not strong enough for 2500 - 3000 PSI.

[chumly2071]

Would someone who has a degree wheel mounted up be willing to shoot a picture of it from the top? I too have recently gotten my bender converted to hydraulics, and in the first couple of tries at using it, I see a need for one. My wife works at a place that does engraving on plaques, and if I can get it drawn properly, I can have her engrave it on black over white plastic (so that anything engraved shows up white on a black background) and mount it on some type of bar stock to the bottom of the bender. If it works out well, I might be able to get some more made fairly reasonable...

Thanks for any help!!

Chad

[KrebsATM02]

Originally posted by guinea13


I hope your not using this line for a pressure line. Single braid is not strong enough for 2500 - 3000 PSI.

Thanks for catching my mistake!! I guess I didn't click on the correct item. Anyways... when I called them to change it, somehow they had not charged me for shipping yesterday. When I saw the total bill I figured they had some kinda of free shipping deal, but noooo, now i have to pay 40 dollars in shipping! Bastids!!!

[guinea13]

Originally posted by chumly2071
Would someone who has a degree wheel mounted up be willing to shoot a picture of it from the top? I too have recently gotten my bender converted to hydraulics, and in the first couple of tries at using it, I see a need for one. My wife works at a place that does engraving on plaques, and if I can get it drawn properly, I can have her engrave it on black over white plastic (so that anything engraved shows up white on a black background) and mount it on some type of bar stock to the bottom of the bender. If it works out well, I might be able to get some more made fairly reasonable...

Thanks for any help!!

Chad

I would be interested in one. Anyone got time to take a picture a degree wheel separate from bender (top view).

[rsitzejr]

I've got one, I'll see if I can take a picture tonight and post it. It's a JD2 one, is that what your looking for?

[KrebsATM02]

Originally posted by guinea13


I would be interested in one. Anyone got time to take a picture a degree wheel separate from bender (top view).

I'd be interested also!!!

[guinea13]

Originally posted by rsitzejr
I've got one, I'll see if I can take a picture tonight and post it. It's a JD2 one, is that what your looking for?

That is what I want! Thanks

[James_Fendley]

degree ring

[James_Fendley]

close up

[guinea13]

Can you give me these measurements.

[bk005]

Originally posted by guinea13
Can you give me these measurements.

Better Yet Spray paint that bad boy on the board , and sell me the board for 1 dollar:D :D :D :D :D

Goood Lohd thats alotta money

[chumly2071]

Thanks for the pics. I'll see if I can't get something to work. Silly question, though. what are the holes at the x5 degree tick marks used for?

Chad-

[rsitzejr]

Here's the JD2 one, only problem with it is that you have to weld a pointer to the die. I haven't used it yet.

[rsitzejr]

Close up

[crazycolo1]

chumly2071

The holes in the Pro-Tools degree ring are for the degree stop. It comes with the ring.

[broncorob]

Well Merry Christmas to me too. The other day I picked up the 3x24" ram and the hydraulic pump. Just so happens I had the 5hp Century motor sitting in my warehouse that a friend gave me a while back. Got the cylinder and bender mounted to a big piece of C channel. All I really need to do is mount the motor/pump, resevoir, and plumb it up. I'll get some pics up next week.

[guinea13]

Well by luck I found someone local that had a degree wheel for a JD2 bender. I made a copy of it on wood and am going to cut then make one out of steel.

[Shoope1]

Kewl find...
I am really glad you started this thread...
I have learned alot and will put it to use in a few weeks when I order my bender....

[guinea13]

Here are some shots of the degree ring I made. I also made a 1 3/4 5.5 CLR die (out of wood) to check the fit.

[guinea13]

Degree 2

[guinea13]

Degree 3

[guinea13]

Die & degree ring (wood)

[guinea13]

Here is a color version of the wheel. I still have to color in the degrees. I need to go out and buy some number punches. I am going to put up the measurements for the degree wheel on my site when I get a chance. Hopefully I will be able to put a full size drawing so that people can just print them out and lay them on a piece of steel.

[DanB]

could u show one closeup pic of that degree ring.. im planning to copy pretty much everything from ya :D good job so far

now im waiting for my friend to machine the plates for me.. they will be between 5/8 to 3/4 all 4 of them.. and for hydro im probably use air jack.. i already have it.. so hopefully it will work fine for me (speed isnt problem for me.. even if i have to wait for 3 min i dont mind that.. but its not 24 inch per stroke.. so will have to reset the die often i guess..

[guinea13]

I put bigger pics on my web site.

Click here for Bender Pics (http://www.exm.netfirms.com/Bender/bender.htm)

Just click on the degree ring pic it will bring up a page with pics of the degree ring. Then just click on the pic you want to see enlarged and it will come out full size. Hope this is big enough for ya.

Pictures are 1180 x 809 pixels. If you save them you will be able to see them full size.

[k5ryanNC]

we need an update on if you've bent anything yet!!! mine will be up and running with my first paycheck in january!!!!

[Shoope1]

Originally posted by k5ryanNC
we need an update on if you've bent anything yet!!! mine will be up and running with my first paycheck in january!!!!

I think this has been a great thing....
What I would like to see is a final parts list when you get it done.
like sizes of bolts, thickness of plates, cylinder size and part numbers, hydraulic setup and such....I've read every post on this but would be nice to have everything you have in one post.
Thanks once again.

[guinea13]

I am still waiting on the Die set from JD2. They said 2 weeks. I think I am on the second week of waiting. Will make a comprehensive list went totally finished.

[broncorob]

WE'RE COOKING WITH GAS NOW BABY!!!!
Just finished up adding hydro to my JD2 model 3. I got all my stuff from Northern:
century 5hp motor
Barnes pump
3x24 double acting tie rod cylinder
log splitter valve
2.8 gallon resevoir
You can find all this stuff on the previous pages so don't ask me for part numbers.

Wired it up with a 220 switch. It's 9:30 PM and I don't have enough ATF and I don't want to cavitate the pump so I am not messing with it anymore. I did extend the ram out just to see it in action and I'm pretty fawking excited. I built an entire tube buggy with the manual bender and a few cages and never complained, but this is GREAT

I've got pix but no star. If someone will post em I'll email them in the morning, but I'm getting out of here and going to bed now.

WOOHOO!!!

[Shoope1]

email them to me and I will post for you...

[Shoope1]

here you go broncorob ,

pic 1

[Shoope1]

pic 2
I had to resize them a a little

[Shoope1]

broncorob 's pic 3

[Shoope1]

broncorob's pic 4

[Shoope1]

broncorob's pic 5

[Shoope1]

broncorob's pic 6

[cj7jeep]

Broncobob mind telling how much the hydo conversion cost using parts from Northern? Good work :beer:

[broncorob]

Originally posted by cj7jeep
Broncobob mind telling how much the hydo conversion cost using parts from Northern? Good work :beer:

I just happened to have the motor sitting here in my shop from a compressor, but if you included that it would be about $500 with tax. Don't forget you need hoses also. The electrical stuff will also cost you some extra.

I don't know how so many people read broncoROB as broncoBOB:confused: