Skyjacker provided Off-Road.com with the following statement regarding the Goodyear/Skyjacker Extreme Championships in Farmington, New Mexico.


When asked, Skyjacker President and CEO, Lonnie McCurry Sr. said "Ranch Pratt is a man of honor with the best interest of the Rock Crawling sport in mind. I know that Ranch would never intentionaly lie to anyone. To me it sounds as if there was confusion over the term "protest" where one man thought it meant a written statement and the other man meant verbal statement. It is normal for emotions to run high in during a competition. It has been my experience that conflict usually brings growth. I feel certain that this incident will bring about clarification of the rules which will create an even better competition environment.

Nell McCurry, Chief Adminstrative Officer of Skyjacker Suspensions, commented that "Ranch Pratt offered to Skyjacker a great sponsorship opportunity over the years. As Co-Marquee sponsor of the Goodyear Skyjacker Extreme Rock Crawling Nationals, Skyjacker has realized tremendous marketing benefits from the organization which is a great reflection on the leadership Mr. Pratt has offered through the years. The merger between RCAA and UROC seems to be the logical next step in the growth of Rock Crawling as a sport. Skyjacker is excited about future of Rock Crawling!"

Lonnie "JR" McCurry Jr, Vice President of Skyjacker Suspensions, has been competing in the Goodyear Skyjacker Extreme Rock Crawling Nationals this year. As a competitor as well as sponsor, he brings another perspective to light. JR said that his "experience as a competitor was incredible. RCAA has done a great job creating an organization that offers competitors an unbelievable opportunity to see what you are made of and what your rig is made of. One of my favorite things about the Goodyear Skyjacker Extreme Rock Crawling Nationals is that it offers extreme entertainment for the whole family. Family is really important to me and I love going to the events and seeing families all around enjoying such a unique sport."

I want to address the concern I have heard regarding the amount of money paid out to winners in 2003", said Lonnie McCurry Sr. "Some people may have not have considered the fact that 2003 was the first year that RCAA ran 2 classes. I believe the creation of the two classes was a good decision and I have not heard any complaints about it from anyone. So, with the division of classes comes the division of the monies. In 2002, RCAA's purse was divided among 3 overall winners. In 2003, the purse was divided among 6 overall winners. It is basic math. RCAA is a business with a specific amount of cash collected from sponsors, registration fees and admission fees. I regret that expectations of a few competitors regarding purse were unmet. And I advise those individuals to contact Ranch Pratt personally to address their concerns."

thanks for posting this Tim.

I missed the part where it says, "and no animals were harmed during the testing of our suspensions". Please spare me the endorsement of promo and legal department bullshit. What this says is Ranch made us money and we'll stand behind him unless someone can prove he lied (as in video of him doing so in front of a team of 25 nuns and lawyers running chase for God with Jesus Christ spotting and the Holy Spirit as crew chief) (would that constitute a three man team or just one…whoops, wrong thread)

The sad fact is only Ranch and the people involved know the truth. This is Richard Nixon saying, "I'm not a crook" and Bill Clinton saying "it depends on what your definition of the word 'is' is".

More importantly, and no offense Tracy, but if the scoring actually reflected cumulative points for all events 40 points wouldn't have changed anything. Sadly, regardless of whether 1st and 2nd place are separated by 20 or 2000 points, the separation is only 2 points per position for the series. This is wrong! No matter what the scoring system, it will be flawed but how hard is it to add up all the points and declare a winner? Will there still be close calls, I don't know. It wasn’t close this year. Does that discourage teams further down the field? I wouldn’t think so; an event win is still nice regardless of your series standing. Anyway a unified voice rather than a suggestion box could better address this and all the other problems.

Two words:


COMPETITORS UNION



btw: so much for going to the president being "bad" or improper.

Originally posted by dumass



btw: so much for going to the president being "bad" or improper.

I think I feel a little bit vindicated.

Vindicated?...if you read this as everyone else probably does, you'll see that they obviously don't view it as you have and your complaining words would have done nothing....they see a bigger picture than this one incident. If you had complained to them wouldn't they have sent you a similar letter? Basically blowing you off advising you that yes, there are problems, but no, they are nothing in comparison to the ground gained in 2003. You just said yourself "What this says is Ranch made us money and we'll stand behind him"...isn't that exactly what I told you they would say? Now I'm not saying that everything is perfectly OK with what they have written as I don't know how the numbers game worked with prize money and there are other obvious problems, but still, the big picture remains that the sport progressed, the teams progressed, and with that comes the good fact that the sponsors progressed...if they didn't, then they would go away and then where would we be?

I'm not religious, but you bagging on SkyJacker for their personal beliefs makes you look like someone I'd like to represent our sports future:rolleyes: ...I had respect for your opinion even though it was different than mine...now, I have lost all respect for you period. Why don't you move to IRAQ:mad3: :mad3: and shoot at American soldiers...you'd fit right in with that attitude.

Union...if you like to dictate, that's fine...It might work but is a huge risk...

Alliance...if you want to actually work together for a future. More people feeling important means more people WORKING.

Regardless, I do agree with the idea or organising and was part of reforming another sport just six years ago. I know for a fact that if people do not get personally involved, NOTHING will happen except what the promoters choose to happen.

First off, fuck you Dustin,(excuse me for not using the gay little flipping flame finger, eat my ass) I was not "bagging" on anyones religion.

Secondly, your rant seems to be lumping two people's comments together. Mine and Nobody20's.

Thirdly, AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY, fuck you a second time for implying that unions are somehow unamerican and proponents of unions should be shooting American soldiers in Iraq. NO BETTER YET UNFUCK YOU! I HOPE YOUR DICK CRAWLS UP YOUR ASS AND DIES!!

You need to pull your head out of your ass and take a deep breath of hyperbole and farce, instead of the lungfulls of FARTS you would have to be breathing to think that last season was "good for the sport".
If spending more money to compete (more to build and then REbuild when destroyed by unsafe courses, as in the case of Jalapeno's engine), getting land closed due to irresponsible promoters negligence, winning smaller purses and drawing fewer spectators is forward progress then I stand corrected. It sounds like you made out ok though, Dustin. Ranch also must be pleased. I would be if I knew I robbed the bank and wasn't coming back to answer for it and that it was ok with the new management.

Yes, union is the correct term for what is needed. Fuck your hollywood skewed perspectives of what a "union" is. Any other entertainment industry talent has representation. That we need it should be obvious from the shenanigans given the okeydoke by Skyjacker. With regards to dictating, you seem to have no problem with promoters dictating to competitors. George Orwell's book, Animal Farm made mention of all animals being equal but, some were MORE equal than the rest. Is that you, Dustin? When guys like you who HAVE sponsorship tell everyone else to be quiet and don't rock the boat it says two things:
1. last year must have been good for you
2. if you chumps become known, my piece of the pie gets smaller

I, for one, am sick of seeing this sport ruined by clowns who are willing to sell out their friends and everyone else in the recreational 4wheeling world for small change. Who have their heads buried so deep in the sand that they can't see who is screwing them and us in the collective ass. If you want to be a whore couldn't you at least aspire to be more than a $2 whore?

I hope a leader steps forward, maybe someone who knows how to build a website and is willing to start a forum for competitors ONLY (no offense to the spectators but, if we're going to organize it has to be only competitors). I would be willing to pay for and do a mailing to all past and present competitors if I can get some help with a mailing list. I DO NOT want to be alone in this!! If you have such a list and are willing to help, post up. I will not be offended in the least if someone else does the mailing. I know I get mail for events so the lists exist. There should be a sorting, I believe the best bulk mail; rates are for about 1000 pieces or more so let's include spotters where the contact info is available. Rich, I'm sure you have a list. Weaver, I think you used to have the all inclusive one. Craig, I don't know if you can help. Pateys, you should have a list as well.

If we all agree on fair play, safety and honesty, collective representation of competitors should be a good thing.

Jim

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
Vindicated?...if you read this as everyone else probably does, you'll see that they obviously don't view it as you have and your complaining words would have done nothing....

This if nothing else says:
OUR CONCERNS WILL ONLY BE HEARD IF WE SPEAK WITH A COLLECTIVE VOICE!!!

COMPETITOR'S UNION
















.

Dumass - why dont you go start another UNION thread someplace else. Seemed to work well last time ... kept all your union posts in one place instead of this where you seem to screw up every thread that you post this stuff in. :rolleyes:

Sam

"as in video of him doing so in front of a team of 25 nuns and lawyers running chase for God with Jesus Christ spotting and the Holy Spirit as crew chief) (would that constitute a three man team or just one…"

Yeah...you're definitly not flaming their love of religion in any way in that statement as you refer directly to SkyJacker...


As for your UNION...I have said time and again I agree we need to organise but not in a PRIVATE CLUB. In my opinion, the UNION ideal is too strong as you get results when you work together including everyone in a loosely bound relationship...I have made many suggestions and pushes for an organisation outside of the promoters but including the Drivers, Spotters, Promorters, and Sponsors...everyone that has something to lose and gain in this sport...That's far from your ideals of Orwillian.
You can read it on threads I've posted and replied to...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181701&highlight=alliance

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153458&highlight=alliance

Even your own original post about unionising.

As for my rant referring to both you and nobody20...yes, I was and it was clear wasn't it?

Regarding your comment that I view UNIONS as UnAmerican and linking them to the Iraq comment...I never said such a thing. It was damn obvious I was referring to YOUR comments about SkyJacker and their religion...

Your comments about this season?
Jalapeno, myself, and tons of others did have to spend a ton of money rebuilding our rigs time and again this season but that was OUR choice. We wanted to compete among the best and paid the price...How many times did Mike, Jason, Jon, Mitch, and the other top guys have to rebuild??? Remember, they offered a lower class for those with less experience and money...WE CHOSE to compete at the top and obviously were not skilled enough to go the season without risk and damage.
Drawing fewer spectators...total the amount of events and spectators and you'll see that we had a ton...there were just so many events that the crowds were thinner. As a competitor, I'd rather have more event choices with less attendace at each. Can't comment on the land closures as I don't know the exact reason and NOBODY can say that a UNION would have made ANY difference in that.
As for having to spend more money to compete...Isn't that what happens in EVERY sport? Tell me a sport that isn't cheap! How much for a set of good golf clubs, lessons, and green fees? How much for a season as a pro wakeboarder? My next door neighbor's daughter costs over $10,000 for a year of junior high cheerleading!...welcome to sports...if people want to play at the top, they must pay.
Smaller purses may be the case but our purses are still higher than many non-primetime sports. Professionals make money from sponsors, not prize money. You think that's not true? How many people even got a prize check this year versus how many people competed? Prize money is not where we need to focus, it is promotion of the sport as that promotes everyone, not just the top 5 by lining their pockets with prize money. As a disclaimer, I still think things were done wrong this year with disclosure of money as well as last year but as was noted elsewhere, look at what happened with Bob Hazel last year...now look at him this year. Bob came clean with the money thing, I hope the RCAA thing comes clear as well.
So yes, it WAS a growth season...ask the many teams that learned so much about promoting themselves and the sport. Ask Jeff Mellow if his team has grown. Ask Jason Paulie what his team has learned and gained and why he's building more relationships with companies working on the latest technology. Ask the many sponsors if their businesses are growing because this sport is growing. Ask JP why Mongo Motorsports will continue to grow and add vehicles, including him being stoked about driving Jalepeno in 2004...ask DesertBull why he is going to more rockcrawls than desert races with his OffRoad.com truck and trailer. Ask RP Films why they have invested in tens of thousands of dollars in equipment for filming in 2004...ask Bob Standich why he built a brand new buggy close to the end ot the season even when he knew the rules might change...ask Don Robbins why he's having a brand new buggy built...Ask BigRich how his plans have gotten brighter for 2004...this will show you that in the BIG PICTURE, things wre not as bad as some are painting it.
yes, there are a couple of negatives but they are far outweighed by positives...I feel if we positively organise, there can be more positives in 2004...

Dustin is right there are way more good things that happened this year than bad things. I wasn't pleased about some of them either but I will still build another rig for next year and spend butt loads of money and probably have no chance of winning any money. The guys that are complaining about the payout not being high as last year atleast they got something. The guys that went to Mexico still haven't got a dime. And we all spent a pile of money to do that event. Still one of the best times I've had.

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
[B


As for my rant referring to both you and nobody20...yes, I was and it was clear wasn't it?

[/B]

Okay, why did you lump me in there? My comment was only related to the president issue.

Nothing else!

Dustin,
You are either retarded or have never heard an "expression" before. I have, and had, no idea whether or not Skyjacker are religous or not. if they are then good, it's still an expression. I believe in God, Jesus Christ the only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit. I get the joke. You say you believe in nothing, whatever.

THE POINT WAS QUITE SIMPLY THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING LESS THAN THE ABSOLUTLY INCONTRAVERTABLE!

Get it?

If I am not making this clear enough I am at a loss. I can only wonder if you would shit in one hand and hold out the other for them to fill with money....LITERALY.

You are a brown nosing ass, keep up the bootlicking and leghump your way to the top.

Jim

edit: maybe this was a stupid question, did someone tell you to jump off a cliff?:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: you are an ass:clown:

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
Why don't you move to IRAQ:mad3: :mad3: and shoot at American soldiers...you'd fit right in with that attitude.

Union...if you like to dictate, that's fine...It might work but is a huge risk...

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
Regarding your comment that I view UNIONS as UnAmerican and linking them to the Iraq comment...I never said such a thing. It was damn obvious I was referring to YOUR comments about SkyJacker and their religion...

:rolleyes:and yes, whatever does mean fuck you:flipoff2:

Nobody20…I recognize that you only commented on the president issue…my comment was that nobody had vindication there…the comments from SkyJacker only tell that they recognize issues but support what they have been involved in. They danced around pointing any fingers as they are not interested in conflict in this situation. Following the "President comparo" from the other thread, this notice from SkyJacker says it all, they see a bigger picture here, already recognize there are some small issues as they have been there the whole time, but that they will stand behind their support of RockCrawling and Ranch…Thank goodness they didn’t see just the negative that some are painting…their commitment could have been dropped and we need their support. My version is the same as it has always been...deal with the promoter, leave the sponsor out of it as if they don't already have their eyes open, they probably want them closed. In this case, I believe SkyJacker's eyes are fuly open, they just don't see it as big of a deal as some of the competitors do.


Originally posted by dumass
Dustin,
You are either retarded or have never heard an "expression" before. I have, and had, no idea whether or not Skyjacker are religous or not. if they are then good, it's still an expression. I believe in God, Jesus Christ the only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit. Get it?
OK, got it...I apologize and can only use the explanation that anybody who has had any dealings with SkyJacker knows their entire faith is intertwined in their company. You addressed this letter from SkyJacker like you actually knew them well enough to justify passing such negative judgment on them…Your comment fit in perfectly with bashing them for their beliefs.

Originally posted by dumass
You say you believe in nothing, whatever.

I said I am not religious...I didn't say I don't believe in something greater that I cannot explain...

Originally posted by dumass

I can only wonder if you would shit in one hand and hold out the other for them to fill with money....LITERALY.

I have been offered money by many without taking it. I chose ProComp over another company that gave me a huge offer as I have faith that a long-term friendship will be stronger than a big paycheck. I have done this so many times it makes my head spin. Having Red Bull as a sponsor makes many companies want to have their decal on our rigs and they offer me great money all of the time. I still have my original friends and team partner's stickers on for a reason..BECAUSE I DIDN'T SELL OUT. They were there for me in the beginning and I recognise that. I easily could have an extra $60k in my pocket this year DUMASS from the buyouts potential sponsors have offered me, but I don't because I know where my loyalties and friends are. In 1999 I gave away a World Championship Trophy and a huge paycheck to the person that took 4th place in the event as the officials chose to be what I saw as unfair as it gets in their rulings. The event official filed a protest against the athlete and they ruled on my behalf and gave me the win even though I fought against it. At the awards ceremony, I pulled him onto the podium with me, handed him the trophy and check, and then congratulated him, stepping down from the podium so he could savor his win. Just last week, I let my wife drive the entire competition in my truck because it looked like she was having such a great time...I wanted badly to drive but let her enjoy her moment in the spotlight...I have done this time and again...You really have no clue who I am and what I am about...

Originally posted by dumass
You are a brown nosing ass, keep up the bootlicking and leghump your way to the top.
Jim

If I were just a brownnoser, I would never have said that yes, there are obviously problems within our sport that need to be solved with the support of everyone. I wouldn't be looking at the big picture, I’d just take the shortterm glory and put nothing back into the sport. I'd love for you to show me what makes me a brownnoser and bootlicker and how I'm obviously being selfish trying to fuck my way to the top...Ask all of those teams I have spent so much time with…at least a thousand hours with competitors that visit and call and write for advice. Hell, I talked to one person for at least 5 hours in just the last couple of days...Do I ask for a penny for sharing? NO! Do I ask for anything in return? NO! Do I write to event sponsors, Better Business Bureaus, and City Councils thanking them for their great support of our sport? YES...How many other people take that time? Do you have any clue how many proposals I have read and tweaked for teams and jeep related businesses without asking for anything? I stay an extra day after each competition so my wife and I can do a cleanup of anything left behind at the event sites because we care! That costs us money to do...who else does this? If a team has a problem or needs help during the events, we're always offering every bit of help and part we can. There are five or six rigs running around with our parts on them right now and we don’t call them asking for our stuff back as we know our friendship will be stronger if we don’t. Dumass, we spend over 120 hours per week working on this sport and literally have EVERY PENNY of our life savings wrapped up in our belief that this sport will blossom. Yes, we got a lot of money from our team partners but what you do not know is that we put every penny of it back in along with over $40,000.00 of our own money. Even when the sponsor/partner money was gone, we continued to pay our spotters their full pay. We pay ALL of their expenses for travel and lodging plus $125 per day, plus 25% of the prize money...we recognise Jody, Frank, and Bob's value to our team and in the end, they are the only teammembers to go home with $ in their pocket. We didn’t keep a penny of our partner’s money...this is literally everything we have and we're going to have a rough winter...remember, we don't have other jobs to replace that money...we work more than full-time at marketing and promoting this great sport...WHY? Because we believe in teams like AllPro, Jordan, Mello, Pure-Adrenaline, Blume, Campbell, Shaeffer, RockRunner, and the many others. We believe in the promoters and sponsors. We believe in the spectators and media...and we believe that if we take our experience in sports marketing and team building and share it with the experience of this huge pool of talent, that the sport will succeed as a whole. You don't see that we are in this for the long run...it is our chosen career. We could be an Enron and lie, cheat, and steal to make some quick bucks, but that would soon be gone and the sport wouldn't be there for us. Instead, we choose to help grow the ENTIRE sport because if everybody is making money...we belong to that group of everybody and can make a living for more than 2 years. Becca and I are not in this to fail. We would never put our two young son’s future at risk by doing something stupid at this point in our lives. We've been honest and open with everyone we've spoken to. Do we get anything for sharing??? We pass on tons of usable information on how to build partnerships, not sponsorships...How to build an image, how to grow the sport, how to capture marketing, how to budget, how to keep relationships, and how to strategize. NOT ONE FRIGGEN PENNY OR MINUTE IN RETURN DID WE ASK.
Further, I have built relationships with every promoter, sponsor, judge, referee, and course builder out there...they will all tell you that I am as straight shooting as it comes. They also call me a pain in the ass sometimes as I don't pull any punches when it comes to fairness and safety. They also say that I am one of the few that is able to look at the full picture because I have been in EVERY ONE of their shoes. I have been a rules maker, a judge, an event director, an announcer, a performer, a competitor, a producer, a marketing director, a sponsorship chairperson, a media coordinator, and a spectator. I approach just about everything from all of these angles before taking action and I do my best to look at ALL sides of each situation...my ideas may not always turn out perfect but I am human enough to admit that...
I am a professional sportsman, I will succeed only if the sport succeeds. The sport won't succeed unless the majority involved succeeds...Believe me, I am no brownnoser. Jim, you have greatly misjudged this one person.
I apologize if I have misjudged you, I just read the hard-line angle in your posts… reading UNIONISE, BOYCOTT, and the other words that seem to point to some scandal, corruption, or wickedness. It just sounds like when you have something to say in the threads I am interested in, it’s only pessimistic and negative and that is not what ANY sport needs.


Finally, some friends have written and called saying they were shocked to see how I had harshly defended myself against a few ugly comments made by dumass and Dirty Harry last week. I can take constructive criticism and advice and always enjoy a little debating as it usually ends up teaching everyone, including me...but I will never back down from an attack on my belief and dedication to this sport. I will from now on try to take a different direction in my defense as these friends have reminded me that the alliance ideal is in working together, even if the opinions are different. Thanks Scott, Rob, Ken, Pat, and RJ for the reminders.
Sorry to the rest for the hardline defense.

Dustin,
I apologize for my posts being “negative” but I try to remain silent until the absurdity of a situation demands comment. Without a doubt you are to be commended for your efforts to stick around and clean up after comps. You were not alone. Your patting yourself on the back, taking credit for it only diminishes the humility necessary for real selfless sacrifice in the interest of the common good. If you recall others, and I already congratulated you for your good show when you announced it in a previous thread. I thought you were an OK guy, a little weird, but OK. I have never read such self-aggrandizing drivel in my life.


This thread was about Skyjacker's statement.

In my opinion, Skyjacker turning a blind eye toward Ranch Pratt’s misconduct in scoring.

Your statement, Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“anybody who has had any dealings with SkyJacker knows their entire faith is intertwined in their company”
just makes their actions more offensive and unconscionable if, in fact, this is true. As it was stated by someone else, “if there was no protest” why did the scoring end up as it did, more importantly why did Ranch lie until confronted by both Tracy Jordan and Jon Nelson simultaneously? Is this what is to be expected of a company with integrity, regardless of their religious beliefs? Or doesn't anyone care as long as SkyJacker gives us their money? Or should I say gives it to Ranch? The simple fact is, if someone will lie about one thing it makes them suspect in other things. In other words, what else is Ranch lying about? This is simple logic. If Bill Clinton lies about one blowjob…. what else is he lying about? No person or company of good repute should defend a liar.

The facts are mutually exclusive:
1. either Ranch lied about the protest being filed
OR
2. Ranch lied about it being filed by Team AllPro/Jon Nelson
OR
3. Team AllPro/Jon Nelson lied about filing a protest (and Ranch covered it up or not)
OR
4. Tracy Jordan lied about being told by Ranch that Team AllPro/Jon Nelson had filed the protest
OR
5. the story about ranch recanting his statement to Tracy Jordan and Jon Nelson, that Team AllPro/Jon Nelson filed the protest when confronted by Tracy Jordan and Jon Nelson is a lie

These statements cannot ALL be true.


I don’t know if you’ll understand the "South Park" (the cartoon on Comedy Central not the city) reference but Ranch’s behavior was “bad” and your wanting everyone to have an "positive outlook" like the character “Butters” is pretty lame or fueled by an overdose of Prozac. Are my comments negative, perhaps? But perhaps someone who isn’t afraid of losing sponsors money needs to call a spade a spade (this is an expression, I will note all of them).

Time and again BAD promoters, managers and politicians screw the people they are supposed to represent. John Cougar owns none of his music, Don King made more money than the fighters he represented and I won't even go into Gray Davis and California electric pricing. Is this the future of RockCrawling?

[end Skyjacker thread]
******************************************


On the hijack topic:
You seem to think this is the: Dustin should be a saint show. Your comments about yourself are an insult to the hundreds of volunteers who give their utmost to this sport and have for decades. The judges who work for free (or will work for food if we're lucky), the local clubs, the local businesses who donate, the originators of the whole "let's have a rockcrawling competition" idea, Fire and Rescue/EMT personel, the local law enforcement people, reporters for free sources like etc.etc.etc. You know all the people you write letters to.

I don’t know what your point is with regard to, Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“we spend over 120 hours per week working on this sport and literally have EVERY PENNY of our life savings wrapped up in our belief that this sport will blossom. Yes, we got a lot of money from our team partners but what you do not know is that we put every penny of it back in along with over $40,000.00 of our own money.”


First:
1 week = 24 hours x 7 days = 168 hours minus the 120 hours you allegedly “spend on this sport”
168 hours – 120 hours = 48 hours / 7 days = 6.86 hours per day for sleeping, eating and the two kids who Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“We would never put our two young son’s future at risk by doing something stupid at this point in our lives.”
And Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“wouldn’t jeopardize by risking your life savings investing in this sport.”
I love hyperbole but this is so over the top that the bullshit quotient is ridiculous. At least I hope you’re bullshitting about the time spent “on this sport”.

Second:
For a moment pretend you are not deliberately trying to look like a bragging ass. How many of your fellow competitors do you think make $40,000 a year, total net income? How about $60,000? What do you think it sounds like when you say, Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“I easily could have an extra $60k in my pocket this year DUMASS from the buyouts potential sponsors have offered me”
orOriginally posted by RedBullJeep
“Yes, we got a lot of money from our team partners but what you do not know is that we put every penny of it back in along with over $40,000.00 of our own money.”
I know what it sounds like to me, an arrogant braggart.

I realize that Pirate 4X4 is about 4 wheeling but are you mentally ill? Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“I have been in EVERY ONE of their shoes. I have been a rules maker, a judge, an event director, an announcer, a performer, a competitor, a producer, a marketing director, a sponsorship chairperson, a media coordinator, and a spectator.”
I think you left out doctor, lawyer and Indian chief (caution: this is another expression) is there anything you don’t know everything about? As I said, arrogant.

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
“In 1999 I gave away a World Championship Trophy and a huge paycheck to the person that took 4th place in the event as the officials chose to be what I saw as unfair as it gets in their rulings. The event official filed a protest against the athlete and they ruled on my behalf and gave me the win even though I fought against it. At the awards ceremony, I pulled him onto the podium with me, handed him the trophy and check, and then congratulated him, stepping down from the podium so he could savor his win.”
I really like the way you mix this in there, again such humble arrogance. (this is called an” oxymoron” look it up)

And on and on and on…if this had been a PM or e-mail to me personally, it would have been over the top but acceptable. I may have even come away with a greater respect for you. Posted in a public forum it comes off simply as self-serving arrogant bullshit.

This thread should be edited; for content specific to the controversy regarding the competition, Ranch and Skyjacker’s comment, by the parties responsible for screwing it up, including myself.

I have never read a post by someone who's name was so fitting before today:rolleyes:

If you think that the entire reason of Dustin's post was a huge pat on the back for himself I feel that you are alone.

What I got from all of this was that he was just simply relaying a couple of stories to you, and the rest of the people on this board to follow up from ealier replies. The entire post was in a "public Forum" Why should he be compelled to send you a PM or an e-mail to tell you where he is coming from?? He was simply repling to you, and defending himself to the shit that was pouring past your lips.:rolleyes:

Next time you want to show off to the world, and give everyone your opinion of someone in a "public Forum" make sure someone wants your opinion, and gives a shit what you say. I would lean towards Dustins opinion on this subject even if I had never met, or competed with him or his wife, for the simple fact that he has the connections, and the oppurtunity to know more about this subject than most the people on this board, or any other.


Now Dumbass.... try to take your all knowing head outta your ass long enough to read this, and realize that not everyone cares what your opinion is, nor do they want to read it here. Do you even have anything to do with this subject?? Is anyone involved a friend, or even an aquantince of yours??

Brian Whitford--

You tell the world I'm greedy and arrogant and then don't expect a full reply? I told my basic story so people could choose for themselves...you call it bragging...I call it a defense againt an unsupported attack.

As for SkyJacker, why don't you break that letter down and show us how bad they are? Lonnie Sr. says , "To me it sounds as if there was confusion over the term "protest" "...read that first part again..."TO ME IT SOUNDS..." They were not there and neither were you. Their statements are exactly what is expected. You think your statements are any better?

Dumass...WE spend 120 hours per week...that's about 70 hours for me and 50 hours for Becca. WE, DUMASS, WE! Or did you purposly skip the "WE" in that sentance?

Your comments about us only caring about money and, "1. last year must have been good for you", and, "It sounds like you made out ok though, Dustin" is the reason I posted a comparison between my not putting my family at risk yet still investing what we have into this sport...YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE THE WHOLE THING IN YOUR QUOTE! I said in a nutshell that I don't find it such a risk...I trust in the people that are involved in this sport. and I trust that our INVESTMENT will have a return when this sport grows...the benefit of the sport growing is EVERYONE will see a return.

The comments about turning down money are there because you said, "I can only wonder if you would shit in one hand and hold out the other for them to fill with money....LITERALY." Your comment is so far from the truth, it's sad!

Again, you took my comment about having experience in many areas completely out of context. I have been in professional sports for a living for over 15 years now and DO have experience in all of these areas so it does give me the ability to see things from many angles. That comment was made because you imply I am only looking at the money angle.

Finally, why would I just PM a reply to you? You put it out there to EVERYONE in the following terms:

"fuck you Dustin, eat my ass, fuck you a second time, NO BETTER YET UNFUCK YOU! I HOPE YOUR DICK CRAWLS UP YOUR ASS AND DIES!!, hollywood skewed perspective, pull your head out of your ass, If you want to be a whore couldn't you at least aspire to be more than a $2 whore?, You are a brown nosing ass, keep up the bootlicking and leghump your way to the top, you are an ass, yes, whatever does mean fuck you, arrogant braggart, are you mentally ill, As I said, arrogant, such humble arrogance, self-serving arrogant bullshit..."

Yet no facts to back these slams up...I replied with the facts that are TRUE answers to your harsh namecalling...I can only say that I am sorry you didn't read my reply as "I DO CARE!"

I really do care...

Dustin thank you for the time you have put into this sport and to the experience you bring, which has helped us, that want to see this become a main stream sport, not a side show. I wish EVERYONE could approach the issues with the same type of attitude. This sport can be ruined in a number of different ways, two extremes of which, are both being discussed or planned by some in both groups that are at odds right now (some promoters and some competitors). I hope cooler heads and wiser business decissions will be the out come. I for one do not want to see "our" sport become the new monster truck racing.

Rich

PS I kept out of this until I could not longer sit still.

I guess I've been around Dustin enough to know he's not what he has been accused of in this thread. I personally had him give me his two cents on how to get through a obsticle that he may of had trouble in. Good or bad the advice was greatly appreciated. Now on the typing a whole damn page in responce when Fuck You would of told the whole story pisses me off. It took too damn long to read!!!!!!!!!!See ya in SEMA!:beer:

Dustin and Beckah may be the best thing that has happened to this sport... EVER. I think everything he has posted or done has been thought out well. I think the Mods should be deleting threads like this, that are obviously the efforts of a recalcitrant fool to instigate riot.

Doug

Originally posted by RedBullJeep

The comments about turning down money are there because you said, "I can only wonder if you would shit in one hand and hold out the other for them to fill with money....LITERALY." Your comment is so far from the truth, it's sad!

Originally posted by Dumassedit: maybe this was a stupid question, did someone tell you to jump off a cliff? you are an ass

Again you missed this...it's an expression. Has no one ever heard shit in one hand and ...for the other as in see which happens first?
or
if someone told you to jump off a cliff....when you've done something because everyone else did? In this case a joke re: cliff diving?

Are you from the moon?

At any rate, like I said Dustin you're weird but probably ok. I hope I'm wrong, but when you guys get screwed just remember I told you so. Now is the time to forge alliances, you better pick the right people. If "Dustin has the connections" I hope you remain in his good graces. I am sick of hearing the complaining and then hearing that i'm an ass for wanting to be able to negotiate the terms with equality. If you like to beg for favors rather than to insist on fair play you should be all set. Rich, at least being a promoter you can retain control. I just wish Ranch were as concerned about competitors as you seem to be. It was the end of the 2002 season when all this started before, my prediction is the end of 2004 will be the same as this year if there is no unified voice for competitors.

Finally, if you read back through the posts from the beginning (first the report quoting Skyjacker, 2nd Dustin saying thankyou for posting, 3rd me saying what a bullshit story, 4th Dustin saying I belong in Iraq as I am apparently now the Infidel...and the rest downhill bullshit) it was Dustin who started shit with me when he was defending Skyjacker, but of course Dustin has the connections so who cares, right? God forbid you should think for yourselves.

Good luck! You'll need it.

When you put the word LITERALLY in there, it is no longer an expression is it...

Am I from the moon? Is that supposed to be funny? Definitely not as funny as you asking if I am mentally ill or you telling me to F off in so many creative ways...

People don't have to stay in my good graces. Even if I don't like you, I'll still give you a fair shot at whatever you're seeking. But people don't really need to worry, there's only one person I can think of that I don't like...

I don't beg for favors...I also don't DEMAND results. I prefer to work alongside people to get things done.

Yes, I did start it...but it ended on my part when I APOLOGIZED in the posting after you claimed you were CLUELESS about SkyJacker’s Religion. The comments you made about SkyJacker fit right in with being a complete, uncaring ass and to me it was clear that they deserved a defense. You explained that you had no clue they were a company based in religion. I noted the coincidence and apologized. You continued, and continued, and continued…

God forbid people should think for themselves???...you mean YOU were not trying to influence people in any way with your huge array of negative comments? Are you saying YOU never meant to think "for" these readers when you bring up all of these visions of a major conspiracy within our sport? Whenever you, me, or anyone, write something, it is something to make others think...
Do you wonder what most people think of you?

We don't need you wishing luck, we need a miracle...but miracles happen all of the time and with the people we have working on all sides of this sport, the odds of a miracle are looking pretty good.

Dumass, you have put so much negativity into one thread, I am beyond being offended and actually laugh at every word I read as you struggle to justify yourself. You really don’t know me… People have been calling, PM'ing, and e-mailing over the last day or two asking why I don't just tell you to F off. I'll tell you why. I did that not too long ago to someone else and realized I didn't know that person well enough to say something like that. They were in the wrong and apologized, but again, I was wrong too. I did something similar to you when I saw your first SkyJacker bashing. Again, I didn't know you well enough, basically told you that you were the worst kind of ass for bashing their religion, then learned after the fact that you were clueless about them being religious. Your comments were way too strong in my opinion (still) but I was again wrong for how I dealt with you. I won't make the mistake of doing that a third time, no matter how much you continue to bash me.

Not sure what this is all about, just wanted to say that I have NEVER been involved with a motor sport (or heard of one) where the purses even come CLOSE to matching the cost to compete. Maybe it's all the promoters together is some massive conspiracy, I don't know, although I tend to think it's simply a case of how much Joe Average Spectator is willing to lay down to watch people race. Point is, sponsorship has always been the key to the money in motor sports. I can see someone being upset if he feels the promoters are keeping an unfair portion of the proceeds, but to me it sounds as though it's simply a case of a purse being cut up into smaller pieces.

I've also never been involved in a motor sport (or head of one) where there wasn't controversy over the way protests are governed, and the ways rules are enforced. Just seems to come with the territory. Let's hope such controversy doesn't scare off sponsors.

Historically drivers unions are not necessarily a BAD thing, they're usually a good thing, BUT - they are usually formed to deal with issues of SAFETY, not issues of money. That's what strikes me funny about this situation. In most other sports (ie: hockey, etc) where unions were formed over issues of money, the central contentious issues centered around collusion. In other words, it seems to me at this point if someone was upset with the way a promoter was splitting up the pie, couldn't one simply go compete in another series? Haven't people done precisely this with Hazel (not saying anything bad, cuz I don't really fully understand that situation either)? Point is, choice is still out there, isn't it? As long as the promoters aren't conspiring to screw the drivers out of money, isn't there still a free market, democratic, american type solution to the perceived problem (ie: take your money elsewhere)?

I guess I'm saying that I'm a fan, and I see these problems as normal for a sport in this stage of its development, and nothing that cannot be handled. Although a driver's union might be a good idea, from what I can tell safety concerns are being responded to reasonably well, and although the combining of certain series might seem a little troubling, there appears to be enough series out there to weed out any unscrupulous promoter through natural selection........ just a fan's point of view.

Chad

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
You really don’t know me… People have been calling, PM'ing, and e-mailing over the last day or two asking why I don't just tell you to F off. I'll tell you why. I did that not too long ago to someone else and realized I didn't know that person well enough to say something like that. They were in the wrong and apologized, but again, I was wrong too.

I'll be at the SEMA show Dustin and I hope to have the chance to talk to you long enough that you will feel comfortable telling me to F off. :D

I don't question your sincerity and I think that you do really want to see the sport suceed. I guess that my concern is that the "mass appeal" of so called extreme sports is carnage and that is not really what I am into. I would rather see someone COMPLETE a sick course than throttle and break or roll. I hope to have the chance to talk to you further in Vegas so we can understand eachother's viewpoints a little better. :beer:

Harry Wagner

Could it be that the main reason this sport is progressing so fast is because it is "extreme"?

I agree that I love to see Tiny school a course without ever lifting a tire...but when Durham's engine fires up, I'm there waiting to see what he'll pull next! It really takes all kinds, otherwise some spectator will be bored.

I look forward to seeing you in Vegas.

Dustin,
You certainly should feel you know me well enough to tell me to "fuck off". We followed you on day 1 in Moab. I'm pretty resilient anyway.




Clearly, if your explainations are true I owe you an apology for the personal insults.

I react in QUITE:nuke: an unpleasant way when told to move to Iraq and shoot American soldiers, as should every American I believe.




I do however stand by my assertion that unless a unified voice for competitors, not promoters or sponsors, becomes a reality we will be singing the same song at the end of next season just as we were last year.

Regardless, I do wish you luck (and myself as well, as part of the collective you) and if we're talking miracles that's exactly what it would take. It does happen and if you turn out to be Moses to Ranch Pratt's pharoh performance then, amen! It's high time someone led us out of Egypt!!! I've never had much luck playing Scarlett O'Hara and "relying on the kindness of strangers". Maybe you have better results.

Jim

Yes my explanations are true and yes, you do owe me an apology for the personal insults...

Dustin,
That WAS the apology. Next time you tell someone you disagree with "Why don't you move to IRAQ and shoot at American soldiers..." Why don't you try it in person and see what response you get.

:flipoff2:

Jim

So you're going to owe it to me then?

Originally posted by ChadLloyd
Not sure what this is all about

Me either, anyone care to clarify? Is there some potential discrepancy between what RCAA says they'll pay & what they DO pay? Or, is someone just whining that they think what's paid out is too little?


A little off-topic perhaps, but I have noticed that the amount of prize money offered at these events is often a little unclear. The websites often say "X amount for the purse assuming Y amount of entries". But, then there's no explanation of what happens with fewer entries. Most of the guys "in the know" are aware of what happens with fewer than "Y" entries. But, I personally think it could be clarified better in the rules (not necessarily talking RCAA, but I've noticed it with other groups whose websites I saw). For my events, I've always taken the opposite approach. I advertise the minimum that'll be paid out. For those events where the purse is dependent on the entries, I will tell anyone who calls, "the lowest it could possibly be is ____". Seems to work for me.

TEX

Originally posted by TEX


Me either, anyone care to clarify? Is there some potential discrepancy between what RCAA says they'll pay & what they DO pay?

Bingo...

Originally posted by TEX

Me either, anyone care to clarify? Is there some potential discrepancy between what RCAA says they'll pay & what they DO pay?

Originally posted by Lance


Bingo...

And so much more, what they say should be what they do.

It's called "Honesty and integrity"

or the lack therof.....


Sponsors also are making themselves look dirty by supporting and "rubber stamping" the behavior.

Truth is truth.

Jim