I ahve built a few crawlers i the last few years....but not a zuk....I have a friend who wishes me to help him build one when we are done remodeling his rental house this month.....what years are the best platform......any links to a 2.8 ford V6 and c4 conversion.....thanks in advance, and any advice is apreciated:confused: :D

Why the motor conversion?

well he is a mechanic and enjoys tthe power and torgue curve of the 2.8 and has one laying around....the c4 would also be nice for crawling

All of the new Suzuki people want to put new motors in. If you want all of the power buy a FORD,CHEVY. There is no need for that motor in a Sami

i am new and looking for a samurai everyone i know is looking at a 1600 conversion and it does cost money so if he's got it layin around why not try? I dont think it would work because there are no adapters available for that engine and borg warner is the only available transfer case and those are depressing.

Originally posted by mas2
All of the new Suzuki people want to put new motors in. If you want all of the power buy a FORD,CHEVY. There is no need for that motor in a Sami

The 2.8/c4 fits very nicely in the samurai. If you are able to do the work yourself, it can be done very cheap. I think a better choice might be the 2.9 or the 4.0 as they are fuel injected.

Oh, and by the way, I am not new to Suzuki's, and I love the power of the v6.

the 2.8 is one of the smallest, lightest v6's that I have seen, and the c4 can be shortened, which makes using the stock tcase easier.

Talk to Tim at Wild West Offroad, sorry i don't have the web site handy.

thanks guys for the info which years are the strongest or dont it matter

My situation was that my zuk had a weak engine. Ive got 4 of these toyota racing engines sitting on engine stands. Why spend alot of $$$ on the 1600 when ive got these engines sitting right here not in use.

This is beside the point, that had I known how much work this toyota engine swap would have been, I wish I would have listened a little closer, and I most likely would have spent the money on the 1600 swap.

I notice that alot of people swapping in different engine combinations, generally already own the engine, or can get it for cheap. I also had engines laying around, already paid for, just begging to be used.

Im right in the middle of my Toyota engine swap, and my advice to you would be to research the 1600 swap alot more before you decide which direction to go. I really wish I would have. Unless money is so tight that you just have to use what you've already got. Ive spent so much time fabbing, and trying to reengineer, that I could have already been wheeling with a 1600 conversion. All of the research has been done for you already, their are kits you can purchase to bolt it in, and enough guys are running them already that the knowledge is everywhere to be had. And its proven to be a performer.

I also noticed that your building this for a friend, and you mentioned performance. My zuk is for me, so I know that some of my stuff is going to fail, as its trial and error on some things. Some of the stuff that I will eventually break on the trail cant be purchased, as I designed it, so I will have to fab. the spares and carry them, or im stuck right where I break on the trail. Alot of these issues I hadnt considered when I first started my swap, and wish I would have. If your friend understands these things, then it wont be as bad when he starts breaking. I just wish I had researched the 1600 swap alot more before going the path that I chose, as I want to be out wheeling, and to an extent, dont enjoy the buildup as much as i will the wheeling.

Im going to have a nice little zuk when this conversion is done, but my next one will be a 1600 injected.


Jim

Jim,
What spare parts are you talking about?
The only one that might give you a problem ( IF ANY )is the intermidiate driveshaft that was made.
Besides the toyota motor you are using are known for the relabilty and horsepower they can create from such a small light engine.
I for one do not regret putting one in my Zuk from a cost stand point because I had the adapter for the 1600 conversion and sold it because I could not find any good used 1600 zuk motors
in my area for less than $1,000.00 And even if I did I would still have a questionable transmission.

Ricky

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
I ahve built a few crawlers i the last few years....but not a zuk....I have a friend who wishes me to help him build one when we are done remodeling his rental house this month.....what years are the best platform......any links to a 2.8 ford V6 and c4 conversion.....thanks in advance, and any advice is apreciated:confused: :D

By the time you get the frame stretched to accept the axle/wheel/motor/tranny/t-case combo you might as well have started with another base vehicle (that has a V-6) and just thrown a Zuk body on it. Anyway if your going to toss the motor any year will do, pretty much the same. If you want to keep the stock motor the fuel injected ones started in 1990.

Well, I wasn't going to reply on this topic, but what the hell, here is my .02 in this... :evil:
mas2, why do you think we all want a little more power? Well, for one I'm building my rig now with Yota axles with 4.11:1 gears, Yj springs front and rear, 3" body lift, GM 2.8L V6 with 200R4 tranny, two Samurai t-case's and my 16x35" Boggers! I was going to keep the stock drivetrain but with the 35" Boggers I knew I wouldn't be able to 4wheel the way I like to. I would be braking axle shafts, b-fields all the time! But, then I could sink a lot of money into a Samurai axle, beef it up a bit, get some b-field rings, beefy driveshafts, big 5.38:1 R&P's, GRS II, and to make my stance a bit wider get some little 1" wheel spacers and also can't forget the BIG 1.6L engine! :eek:
This wasn't the way I wanted to go! I got the 2.8L engine for FREE, the yota axles were only $200 (they were also very clean too) and got an extra t-case for free too! So, why spend all the money on stuff that I might brake anyway with my tires and driving habit? When I can install better and bigger stuff that will take a little more abuse then the stock Zuk parts, and it costs LOTS LESS!!!! And it is just a little more in weight, not much. What is so wrong with people wanting to put V6's and Dana 44's, or Toyota axles in there Zuk? It, in my book, is still a Zuk! I still have a Zuk body and frame! :flipoff2:
Sorry for going off a bit, but I just can't stand it when people think that I don't have a Zuk anymore just because I want to try and make something better!
And I might be new to this board, but not to Zuks! :rasta:
:beer:

WildWest (http://www.olywa.net )

Try this:D Tim Lund is a great guy - the 2.8L is a fine choice. It would be KEWEL if you could mate a Toy 5 speed behind it w/ dual t-cases & Toy axles <DROOL DROOL>:grinpimp:

All the Samurai's came with the same (strength) axles - that will be your weak point. The Sam t-case can take V6 power if used with an auto, but the 2WD gear reduction will have that little Ford motor buzzing pretty good - maybe use the Bronco C4 & a Dana 20?

Good Luck.



Oh yeah -- WELCOME NEWBIE :flipoff2: :D

now we're talking the whole setup out of a BII or early BroncoI know I cna get am adapter to mate the C4 to any TC...hmmmmmm
this is getting good guys...I like this brainstorming keep it up!:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER
WildWest (http://www.olywa.net )

Try this:D Tim Lund is a great guy - the 2.8L is a fine choice. It would be KEWEL if you could mate a Toy 5 speed behind it w/ dual t-cases & Toy axles <DROOL DROOL>:grinpimp:

All the Samurai's came with the same (strength) axles - that will be your weak point. The Sam t-case can take V6 power if used with an auto, but the 2WD gear reduction will have that little Ford motor buzzing pretty good - maybe use the Bronco C4 & a Dana 20?

Good Luck.



Oh yeah -- WELCOME NEWBIE :flipoff2: :D

If you are going 20 , you may as well go 18 because the rear imput is offset passenger side, and is 5" lower than the 20. You will have to run an offset rear end like the Zuk rear, Waggy 44 or TLC

If you go with offset axles front & rear (ideal) just use a D18.
I believe they make crawler gears for 'em, too.
Waggy 44's or L.C. axles


Or you could go with Scout axles and the D20.
Should be a sweet combination either way.

The 3tc engine is bullet proof.

I am refering to what you might break on the trail, that if you werent carrying, nobody else would stand a chance of having to get you going. With my t case moved back, the front drive line has to be stretched. I built mine to use the stock length rear shaft, so thats a +. Any external part failure on the engine would leave me sol if I didnt have my own supply of spares. Im also used to carrying 2 of absolutely anything that could possibly break, fail, or act up at the track, and that may not be a necessity when your wheeling?

Or it could be that im just far enough into my swap that im wishing it done so I could be wheeling LOL. I could very easily change my opinion after I finally drive this thing. I do know that this 3tc can handle anything I throw at it. I turn it 7800 all night at the races, and thats alot of rpm for a push rod engine.

Give me a month or so to get it finished, and I will have a better feel for it. My workload at work doubled as well, and that will change back to normal after the holidays.

Jim

Toywagon hang in there - if you can comfortably fit all that Toy powertrain in there, you will have what argueably may be the perfect combination for a Samurai. (Unless you are using stock Samuri axles :rolleyes: )

Look at it this way:

When you are making all that dough when you start selling your install kit, all the headaches will be a distant memory!:D

Thanks Oilburner,

Zuknut has sped up my conversion quite a bit. He machined a t case flange for me, and built me a custom alt. bracket to run a gm alt, and shipped them out to me, and has been helping me troubleshoot on the side quite a bit. Hes running the same engine, but he was able to run a 1 ujoint shaft. I tried for 3 weeks to get my shaft aligned perfect, but wasnt happy with any of my designs. I will be onroad as much as offroad, and really dont want the vibrations if I didnt get it right.

I think in my case especially, where the maintence of keeping our race shop cars up and running weekly, plus maintaining my own car, that im burnt out on fabing and wrenching, but im still wanting an original zuk. We run 4 ministocks, and 2 IMCA mods our of our shop, and they keep me pretty busy. Im taking a break from racing, and hopefully i can get back to where building and fabricating is as much the enjoyment as the finished product.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Jim

Zukjr, I do not like the stock axle at all. They are just to weak. This is why I went to Toyota axle. The 2004r is a hevy trany. I was able to do the 16v for under $800, and it has all the power that you need. I have nothing against other parts on a Sami, but Is all the problems worth it????

I am currently running the 3TC in my baja bug...sweet setup!

If you are interested, I can shoot you some links to some good performance websites for your 3tc. You can take it up to 2000 cc's. Stock bottom end with stock rods are bullet proof. I turn the stock bottom end 7800 no problem. I do use the arp rod bolts tho.

Anyway, if you want some links for that engine let me know.
Any pics of the bug?

Jim

cool send em on over

[i]By the time you get the frame stretched to accept the
axle/wheel/motor/tranny/t-case combo you might as well have started with
another base vehicle (that has a V-6) and just thrown a Zuk body on it. Anyway if
your going to toss the motor any year will do, pretty much the same. If you want
to keep the stock motor the fuel injected ones started in 1990.



There is no need to stretch the frame when using the 2.8/c4 combo.

The only serious modification that needs to be done(other than making the mounts of course), is to widen the trany tunnell a bit at the bottom(i think a body lift would fix this problem though).

I am running 2.8/c4 with stock drivetrain and it works really well. Only problem is it does rev pretty high on the highway because of the high range reduction in the zuki tcase.

well taht 2.8 dont mind being run at speed.....it was originally designed for the capri......now that was a nice little beastie

Originally posted by zukibrother



There is no need to stretch the frame when using the 2.8/c4 combo.

The only serious modification that needs to be done(other than making the mounts of course), is to widen the trany tunnell a bit at the bottom(i think a body lift would fix this problem though).

I am running 2.8/c4 with stock drivetrain and it works really well. Only problem is it does rev pretty high on the highway because of the high range reduction in the zuki tcase.

Here's why I bet you'll end up extending the frame. You put a V-6 in there and some beefier axles to handle the motor. Now to get the diffs of those beefy axles up higher you go bigger tires (say 35" min, a lot of guys are doing 36"+). You got the motor to move those right? Well now hill climbs are pretty scary being such a short wheelbase so what's next, extend that wheelbase. I have 33's on mine with an 85" wheelbase (80" is stock). I already feel really vertical on climbs, so when I go 35's it'll definately be time to move that rear end back another 5 inches or so. Maybe you thought I meant you'd have to extend the frame to fit the motor.

the conversion has been done with success many times and very capable too...yes the additional wheel base would be nice but that is the case with ALL zuk's though

Chris you don't "HAVE" to lengthen the frame to extend the wheelbase..... :smokin:

The combo I settled on before I even got my Sami is this one. 2.8L Ford V6, C4, Dual Toyota transfer cases. Advanced Adapter makes the adapter for the C4/Toy case. Then simply drop a Marlin dual case setup on the backside of that thing. I don't see why some of you guys have such a problem with putting American motors in Japanese vehicles. You're entitled to your own opinion, but don't try to push it on other people. I'll do whatever the hell I want with MY Sami.

Rob

Originally posted by Philthy
The combo I settled on before I even got my Sami is this one. 2.8L Ford V6, C4, Dual Toyota transfer cases. Advanced Adapter makes the adapter for the C4/Toy case. Then simply drop a Marlin dual case setup on the backside of that thing. I don't see why some of you guys have such a problem with putting American motors in Japanese vehicles. You're entitled to your own opinion, but don't try to push it on other people. I'll do whatever the hell I want with MY Sami.

I don't think anyone has a problem with motor choices. It's just after driving one for 3 years you quickly see the Zuks big advantage is it's light weight. I remember when I went to the Rubicon, I strapped on an extra 3-400 pounds of gear to the Zuk for the weekend. Man did that suck getting into Spider Lake. I was slipping and sliding on crap that I wouldn't even have to concentrate on when unloaded. As soon as I unloaded and started wheeling it felt like my old predicatable Zuk again. Since I put the Toy axles on I have been wheeling without the spare back there (need a rim) , believe it or not I can feel a difference on the climbing obstacles (my spare is a 33 x 9.50 on 15x8" rim not even full sized).

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER
Chris you don't "HAVE" to lengthen the frame to extend the wheelbase..... :smokin:

If you go coils up front the existing frame is probably ok. But how do you get 9" of extra spring (YJ's) on there without extending the front out?

I never got a chance to really ask you about your flatbed. One thing I wanted to know was why didn't you run a fuel cell on top of the flatbed? I was thinking I wanted my bed directly on the frame rails to keep the center of gravity down lower. I realize the fuel cell takes up cargo room but were ther any other problems you could see?

cant we all just get along.....lol.........:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
cant we all just get along.....lol.........:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

:confused: You got some good advice here. When you guys get done with whatever you end up with give me a shout and we'll go test it out on Table Mesa I don't care what you drive as long as you actually use it :D A group of us are running Judgment Day tommorow.

But how do you get 9" of extra spring (YJ's) on there without extending the front out?

On the front, you just move your rear spring hangers back and on the rear move the front spring hangers forward!

That is how! :p :rasta:

DUDE, YOU GUYS SUCK.......I CANT MAEK ITDOWN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS! :flipoff2:

All i know is you better take some pics and post em on this topic.....if you would be so kind.....Im dying to see what the trails is like!:D

Originally posted by Zuk Jr.


On the front, you just move your rear spring hangers back and on the rear move the front spring hangers forward!

That is how! :p :rasta:

I looked at doing that for the front but that makes the spring and pinion angle pretty extreme. If you've done this I'd like to see pictures.

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
DUDE, YOU GUYS SUCK.......I CANT MAEK ITDOWN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS! :flipoff2:

All i know is you better take some pics and post em on this topic.....if you would be so kind.....Im dying to see what the trails is like!:D

<insert evil laugh here> posted here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19399) . Nice trail.

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler


<insert evil laugh here> posted here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19399) . Nice trail.

does nice mean nice, or nasty?

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


does nice mean nice, or nasty?

It's like Terminator before all the rock stackers started taking stock rigs thru it. I liked it. There were quite a few spots where you could take an extreme, mild or easy line. You missed some good waterfalls yesterday. Cheap Trick and Gila Monsters were pretty easy for the most part, but there were some obstacles even Shane would like to play on out there. I didn't have a passenger so I didn' get many pictures of myself, one of the other passengers took a lot of pictures and video, hopefuly he'll send me the stuff next week. I'll post some pictures later

we did a lot of unstacking at Terminator last time through...gotta unpave those trails

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
we did a lot of unstacking at Terminator last time through...gotta unpave those trails

Cool, we had to stack some rocks on Gila Monster to get one of the Jeeps thru. While he was messing around on the next rock I unstacked them and one of the other guys started helping me. I think all you have to do is start unstacking and people usually pitch in once they see someone else doing it.