Startin a big time buildup on this cute little 88 samurai. It was recently purchased for just $400 and its gettin chopped, tubed, stretched, coiled, and eventually repowered. Gettin a pair of toy axles, triangulated 4 link with coils in the rear, leafs up front, 22RE with toy tranny and t-case, and of course plenty of tubing :flipoff2:

Here are the before pics:

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki001.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki002.jpg

Dallas

Heres the pics from today. Already gettin it awn with the sawzall. awww yeeeaaah. :p

Strippin out the Targa and "roll bar"
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki003.jpg

Droppin the tank and clearing out all the wiring and such
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki004.jpg

Chop chop chop :flipoff2:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuk005.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki006.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki007.jpg

Stay tuned for updates.
Dallas

Lookin good man.. I'll grab those YJ springs for you tommorow, and thier all yours.. :) You just owe me a styrofoam container of cheese fries from Toms :flipoff2:
Scott

Mmmmmm the grease bucket of cheeeeezzzee fries. You got it buddy.

Dallas

Sweet...,,:D man thats a good deal for only $400.00

Dang.. the thing runs bitchen too... For a samurai.. I still can't believe he got it for $400... Damn.. thats a deal
Scott

Hey Dallas, glad to see you made it over to the Zuk world. Is it yours?

You the price of Isuzu R&P, tcase gears and ARB lockers you can buy and build a whole Sammi. Scary huh, but fun too. :D I still love my Trooper too though.

Sounds like a cool project. I would keep the zuk motor though sice it is so much lighter. Get your toy tc with a ringer or use one of the new reduction box setups for the zuk case too. There are a ton of good zuk gearing options out there nowadays.

BTW...nice shop space!

OH!!!:eek: You lucky you found that befO me Dallas:D Killer deal!

I was expecting something more along the lines of this

http://mobilmultimedia.com/bugzuki/

I would have bought that body for $400 and given you mine to cut up.

Must be nice to find stuff that clean.

The last one I looked at for $400 - you could sling a cat through the rust holes.

Originally posted by silverzuk
I would have bought that body for $400 and given you mine to cut up.

Must be nice to find stuff that clean.

The last one I looked at for $400 - you could sling a cat through the rust holes.

Matt, if you ever seriously want a Zuk body for a good price just let me know ;)

the rig doesn't belong to me, but it does belong to a close member of the StinkyFab family so I'll get some use out of it :D The Zuk motor is definitely gonna go though, the owner plans on driving this thing on the freeways of socal, and 60mph just aint fast enough. Hell around here if you're doin 75 you're ridin the slow lane gettin passed.

Rust? Whats that? this is southern cali man, nothing has rust on it. :flipoff2: Oh and Bill, remember those axles you sold me a while back, well they finally found a home :)

Dallas

Originally posted by RngrDv
I was expecting something more along the lines of this

http://mobilmultimedia.com/bugzuki/

Funny, I did just finish putting this together for my GF

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/Bug/pinky27.jpg


:flipoff2:
Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
the rig doesn't belong to me, but it does belong to a close member of the StinkyFab family so I'll get some use out of it :D The Zuk motor is definitely gonna go though, the owner plans on driving this thing on the freeways of socal, and 60mph just aint fast enough. Hell around here if you're doin 75 you're ridin the slow lane gettin passed.

Rust? Whats that? this is southern cali man, nothing has rust on it. :flipoff2: Oh and Bill, remember those axles you sold me a while back, well they finally found a home :)

Dallas

LOL so My axles are going under that thing? Sweet, give me a call/e-mail if you run into any probs... since I've been there done that, or hell you can cruise up and look at mine if need be:D

Originally posted by NC Zuk


Matt, if you ever seriously want a Zuk body for a good price just let me know ;)

I going to wait until I use mine completely up before I rape another one.

One more hard roll might do it in.

Thanks Bill, I'll let you know if I have any questions. Just one pic today, pulled the front axle, seats, and doors, also cut the hinges to make the doors lift off. Wish mine were that easy :rolleyes:

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki008.jpg

Dallas

Keep the pics coming...we havent had a good buildup on the zuk board in a while.

playing with a sawzall is fun huh:D

Your almost there:D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=956775

WTF?!? umm...... not sure if you got carried away with the sawsall but umm... you seem to be missing a few important sections of your truck?!? What the hell are you building? I think I'm starting to like it! :eek:

Originally posted by SuziCrazy
WTF?!? umm...... not sure if you got carried away with the sawsall but umm... you seem to be missing a few important sections of your truck?!? What the hell are you building? I think I'm starting to like it! :eek:

:rolleyes: Been built.....probably in parts now:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Islandzuki


:rolleyes: Been built.....probably in parts now:flipoff2:

Not quite in pieces yet, almost there:D

Well here's tonights progress, damn this thing is front heavy now. Had a set of stands set just behind the front spring hanger, and it STILL tried to tip forward on me. Repositioned the stands now and its much more stable, but they are kinda in the way, so I may need to find a new way to support it. Shane, i know you had yours strapped to the ceiling, dont know if thats an option for me, since the nearest beam is like 12' up and has a light attached to it. I'm sure I'll figure something out.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki009.jpg

Dallas

Lookin Good dude.. Now put those springs I gave you to good use. :flipoff2: BTW, you still owe me a bucket of cheeze fries :flipoff2:
:D
Scott

I invited you and the girl out to dinner ya fawker. Come on over to the shop tomorrow and we'll put those springs to use. :flipoff2:

Dallas

Well.. Right now Im sitting watching the news, expecting my house to burn to the ground. This is just great. I will try to give you a call later... From what I understand there is a fire out your way too.... Better be safe dude.
Scott

Well it looks like I'm safe from the fire, tho I had to keep the roll up door closed to keep all the ash from floating in. Made some good progress today. After meeting with the owner over the weekend we decided to put the targa back on and today i pulled off the front sheetmetal and started workin on the frame extension.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki010.jpg

You can just barely see the cut line on the frame. The front crossmember was all bent up and the passenger body mount was trashed so I decided to just chop off the frame behind the crossmember, when I started lookin at the frame behind the crossmember I saw the steering box mounts and figured since we're gonna be puttin in a new box i might as well get rid of those too, so i put the cut line right in front of the radiator mount brackets on the inside of the frame. Tomorrow i'll start building the extension, front bumper, and spring mounts.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki011.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki012.jpg

Dallas

Well thanks to the dentist I didn't get into the shop til late today, and didn't get out til after 10 tonight. Finally got started on some of the fabrication. Spent a couple hours makin the spring hangers and got to work on the frame extension. Tacked the new spring mounts in place, widened em out to match the toyota spring pad width and will be tying them into the new front bumper as well.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki013.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki014.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki015.jpg

Dallas

Are you gonna add some braces to the sides of those spring mounts coming down from teh frame? Just curious.. Or do you think it will be strong enough as is?? :flipoff2: :D :D
Scott

Cmon dude you know how strong my tack welds are :flipoff2: The front bumper will be built from the same material as the extension and sit on top of the front 2" of the hangers, that way the frame is welded to the bumper and the hangers are welded to the bumper and the extension doubling up everything. Oh and yes the seam between the extension and the stock frame will get reinforced as well. As much as I trust my welds, I'm not gonna put the whole weight of the front end on a couple butt welds :)

Dallas

Come on dude.. Live dangerously! Oh yeah.. its not your rig LOL. :)
Scott

LOL, yeah scott, this rig is gonna be way better than mine :flipoff2:

Heres todays pics, the wind picked up and took away some of the smoke today, makin it much easier to work. Built a front bumper/crossmember and tacked it in place, tomorrow I'll attack the shackle mounts and shackles. Speaking of which, any of you guys runnin YJ springs with a shackle reverse have pics of where you put the shackle mount under the frame? I think mine is gonna end up right in front of the body mount. I've got a design in mind, but just wondering how others did it to get ideas. Thanks.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki016.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki017.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki018.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki019.jpg

heres a shot of where the back of the spring comes up.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki020.jpg


Dallas

Hey Dallas,

I finally got some work done and pulled up the thread. Looking good.

I have a concern about your frame extension though. I think you have it angled to high. It is great to keep the spring as close to the frame as possible, but there is a limit when you are using stock (non lifted) springs.

With my Toy springs I have very little room for the steering linkage when the suspension flexes, I imagine the wrangler springs will be the same. Let me see if I have some photos to illustrate this..
(suspension flexed in first 2 photos)
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/030303/waynes1%20718.jpg
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/030303/waynes1%20719.jpg
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/030121/waynes1%20608.jpg
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/trips/030807/waynes1%20163.jpg
Just picture where that drag link is on the high side, right into my spring. When the axle flexes to max on either side, that drag link is right up against the frame, or the pitman arm is into the leaf spring.

All the mods I did after the first 2 trips were to cure draglink clearance issues. I thought I was careful during build up, and knew I would get additional flex out on the trail, but I actually get a lot more flex on the trail then I was getting with my tests in the garage. It is now happy, but the Zuk did get taller as a result. :mad: (Just found out on the last trip that my pitman arm can make contact with my shock when turning and stuffed)

I'm also wondering if you are paying attention to the caster angle. Sounds like you are going to stick with the stock Toyota axle pads up front (good idea!) Since this is going to be a highway car, do pay attention to that caster angle. The Toy axle is kind of sensative here.

I may rotate my knuckles at some point in the future just to get the pumpkin rotated up a little higher. With the dual t-cases, you end up with a LONG front shaft that hangs kind of low.

Oh yeah, you better warn Robby that he is going to have to either buy a spendy driveshaft or put up with a square shaft up front. That shackle reversal really needs a rather long slip yoke when joined with a flexy suspension. (The spendy shaft will probably cost as much as that Zuk.)

Looking really good! Maybe I'll make it over this weekend.

-Wayne

p.s. You going tohave that ready for some testing at the hammers for T-day? :D

On that rear shackle mount, I'm not sure I see how the body mount is in the way. Just chop that stock spring mount out, and box the body mount. Then you can attach your new shackle hanger to the new box. Right? Should be quick and clean.

Also, you might want to check out some of the pics from what Jim is doing in the Dana 44 thread. Same basic idea, just different axle. (I think a lot of people have missed his build up becuase of the Dana 44 title.)
Here is a link to Jim's project. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120802&perpage=25&pagenumber=2)

-Wayne

I agree with roto. The space between the end of the extension and the spring and the steering is cozy with an inline extension, if you tilt it up it will only get worse. I really had to finesse things to get everything to clear.

Thanks for the comments wayne. On the frame extension after searching around here i couldn't find a concensus on whether to continue at the same angle as the frame, or to go straight out horizontal, so I did something in between :p its really not angled up much from the line of the stock frame, maybe the pics make it look more than it is. I'll definitely keep an eye on it tho. I dont plan on plating the frame in until I get the steering box located and figure out the clearances. as for the D-shaft, I'm well aware of the travel issues, remember this is the same setup I run. I started workin on the shackle mount after we talked, and dont think its gonna be as much of an issue as I originally thought. scwa, did you do your extension inline with the frame or angle it up? pics?

Thanks for the comments.
Dallas

oh on the caster angle, i've actually been givin it plenty of thought :) I'd like to use the stock perches on the yota axle, but if the caster isn't just right I'm not gonna thing twice about cuttin em off and puttin new ones on. Its too cheap and easy to do right to booty fab it together and have it handle like crap.

If you're around this weekend just let me know, I'd love to get a little in person chit chat time with ya, since you've built yours over and over so many times, guess you must have figured out all the wrong ways to do it :flipoff2: I was plannin on goin to the CART race this weekend, but it looks like its been cancelled due to the fires :(

As for T-day, if i'm lucky I'll be there, but i dont think this rig will be comin :)

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
oh on the caster angle, i've actually been givin it plenty of thought :) I'd like to use the stock perches on the yota axle, but if the caster isn't just right I'm not gonna thing twice about cuttin em off and puttin new ones on. Its too cheap and easy to do right to booty fab it together and have it handle like crap.

Dallas

Yep. If you do cut the passenger pad off, you are in for a new level of fun. You might as well rotate the knuckles at the same time.

You are going to shave those axles aren't you? kind of a fun process too. Probably take you a day. Takes me about a day per.

-Wayne

Hmm another thought just popped into my head, how did you cure your clearance issues wayne? just play around with the springs" what about just addin a bumpstop, wouldn't that cure the problem quite easily. Limits flex a little, but heck its better than limiting it with your steering parts :p

Dallas

Sinkbug-My extension is in line. I used a combo of adjustable bump stops and a lot of steering boox/pitman/heim fiddling to get it all to clear.

Originally posted by rotozuk


Yep. If you do cut the passenger pad off, you are in for a new level of fun. You might as well rotate the knuckles at the same time.

You are going to shave those axles aren't you? kind of a fun process too. Probably take you a day. Takes me about a day per.

-Wayne

Does anyone have a stock reference angle for the Toy. front axle spring pads to make sure proper caster is maintained (if you're NOT cutting and turning)?

I did about the same as Scaw. Limit up travel. I also used a longer shackle to make a little more room and more down travel.

I was never that big a fan of bump stops except to keep the tire out of the sheet metal. Since I went to extra work to assure myself this would not be an issue, I was a little bummed to find myself limiting the up travel. now after many trips I have found that the limited up travel has saved me from 2 rolls. I'll be working a bad line up an obstacle, and suddenly the vehicle slips in a hole and the body quickly shifts to the danger point, but then it hits max up travel on that side and stops. I have done this twice and instantly realized that would have been a roll with my old suspension, or something really flexy like Aaron's coil setup. Maybe why we see a lot of new coil drivers roll. It probably does not hurt that I have kept my CG as low as possible.

-Wayne

Started workin on the shackle mounts today. Got it all tacked together and tomorrow i'm gonna start workin on the shackles. hopefully i'll have all the mounts welded in place and hang the axle by the end of this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

heres the shot of the shackle hanger. Thinkin about runnin another gussett from the top of the bushing back to the body mount. waddya think?
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki021.jpg

Since I realized I didn't have one I got a full length side shot of the front spring as it sits right now. Anyone know what angle the spring pad should sit at for proper caster on a toy axle?
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki022.jpg

Dallas

Lookin sweet.. as usual.. those are some really nice springs... where'd you get em? :D

BTW, I'll be collecting my cheeze fries payment this weekend :flipoff2:
Scott

Mine has the same gusset set up, and so far it has been fine, but it would not hurt anything to add another!

I want some cheese fries too! I'll probably stop by in the mid morning hours. Looks like I'll be in the Geo though. :mad:

-Wayne

Just gimmie a call before you come over :)

Dallas

Screw that.. I'll be by about 10-11 am unless the Geo burns to the ground.

-Wayne

Wayne, with any luck, I'll be up there by then too.. helping him put together this pos...

:D

Scott
aka Po' Riggity.

Originally posted by StinkBug
Anyone know what angle the spring pad should sit at for proper caster on a toy axle?
Little secret: Most of us running Toy axles have really shitty caster. Toy axles only have about 1-1.5 degrees of caster in them with the stock spring/perch configuration. To do it right, you really should cut & turn the knuckles in my experience. It looks so damn easy compared to a dana axle, too...

This setup, my inital SAS on my Toy, had MASSIVE death wobble. It had rotated the axle back to about 10 degrees of caster.
http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/sas/sas35.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/sas/sas48.jpg

You can see how the pinion was almost perfectly horizontal:
http://home.off-road.com/~mithrandir/sas/sas60.jpg

Going to a shorter shackle helped a lot - that one was 7" and I currently run a 4"er. There is a reason most Toy SAS's put the shackle hanger through the frame: If you mount the hanger under the frame, you need a fang-like 4" or so drop hanger to keep caster roughly in line.

Dallas, I forgot that I had around 4.5-5* caster on mine and don't have any steering/death wobble issues.....but then again I have a hydro assist ram:confused:

Am I missing something here? Why not just rotate the spring perches? I guess I'm just dumb. Can anyone smarten me up a little ???

Originally posted by NC Zuk
Am I missing something here? Why not just rotate the spring perches? I guess I'm just dumb. Can anyone smarten me up a little ???

Because the front of a Toy axle is not round where the perch is, on the pass side the housing is kind of reqtangle and you cant get the u-bolts around it if you rotate them...

When you rotate the axle it affects caster. If you just move the perches and don't adjust the caster you'll have some SCARY steering. To ajust caster you have to cut and rotate the knuckles.

ok, lesson over. I'm gonna do DANA's. I guess it would be less of a pain :confused:

YAHHHHH RIGHT ITS ALL WORK;)

The same applies to Dana axles. The perches and their realtion to caster are set at the factory. Start messing with either one significantly and you need to cut and rotate. Toys can be cut and rotated at home it your handy, Dana style is harder. There are several good sites on how to and rotate a Toy.

You do your Danan's and tell us how easy it was. :rolleyes: :D

I'm usually nice and tell my Dana buddies that they are both about the same amount of work, but between you and me, I lie to them. I much rather have my Toy axles.

The reason some people rotate the knuckles is so they can have both a great driveline angle, and a great castor angle. Stock Toy axles offer a good castor and a good driveline angle. Some people just want great. :rolleyes:
(And it seems many over do it and get good anyhow.)

By the way, you have to do this on many of the Dana axle options also. Most of the Dana axles, you have to do a fair amountof machining to make them work with a SPOA set up, and high steer.

Its all in the design you pick. There are no shortcuts, and no wrong picks.

When Dallas is done with this project he will have a solid understanding as he has a Dana 44 in the front of his Amigo, and a Toy in this Samurai.

-Wayne

You could adjust your caster by rotating the perches, but you may end up with your pinion pointing to low or high (like the horizonal pic).

Doing both allows you to adjust both the pinion angle and the caster separately of each other.

Umm yeah, I could do all that, but its just so much easier to just set it up just like a stock toy as far as caster and pinion angle. Yeah the pinion wont be rotated up much, but so what, it'll have good caster, and the driveline angles will be just fine. Seems like a ton of work for not a lot of benefit to me. :D

BTW Wayne, what happened to you yesterday? Thought you were gonna come over, but never heard from ya :flipoff2:


Dallas

but its just so much easier to just set it up just like a stock toy as far as caster and pinion angle

Ditto. Thats what I did.

Originally posted by rotozuk
You do your Danan's and tell us how easy it was. :rolleyes: :D

I'm usually nice and tell my Dana buddies that they are both about the same amount of work, but between you and me, I lie to them. I much rather have my Toy axles.

The reason some people rotate the knuckles is so they can have both a great driveline angle, and a great castor angle. Stock Toy axles offer a good castor and a good driveline angle. Some people just want great. :rolleyes:
(And it seems many over do it and get good anyhow.)

By the way, you have to do this on many of the Dana axle options also. Most of the Dana axles, you have to do a fair amountof machining to make them work with a SPOA set up, and high steer.

Its all in the design you pick. There are no shortcuts, and no wrong picks.

When Dallas is done with this project he will have a solid understanding as he has a Dana 44 in the front of his Amigo, and a Toy in this Samurai.

-Wayne

I can completly make a narrowed high pinion 44 in an afternoon, why do you clowns think changing the castor is so hard on a Dana axle? Maybe take an hour to do both sides.:flipoff2:

By "machining" you mean grinding, right? Thats if you use a Waggy 44.

A drilled and tapped pass side knuckle is only $100.

Toy or D44, it's a horse apeice, use whatever you can get cheap.

Originally posted by StinkBug
BTW Wayne, what happened to you yesterday? Thought you were gonna come over, but never heard from ya :flipoff2:


Piss off! I enjoyed the fine Mexican Restaurant down the street from your shop. She makes a a mess of food for $4. :D

In other words, I don't have your cell number. I read a magazine waiting for you or the Po to show up. Then I went off to my next destination. Shop looks good through the fence. :rolleyes:

-Wayne

LMAO, i had a feelin thats what happened. I was actually driving back from palm desert that morning, and tryin to figure out how i could get ahold of you, but you dont have a phone. I ended up gettin there a bit after noon, but i guess I was too late. Sorry man.

BTW, was that Oscars, or Albertacos? Both fine establishments, but Oscars is definitely my favorite.

Dallas

Well here's a little progress from today. Got started on some shackles and decided to test fit the axle to check out the caster/pinion angle and the ride height and clearances, etc. Lookin pretty good, could be a little lower, and I think I might have just a touch too much caster, but we'll be adding some weight to it which should bring it down and flatten the springs a bit.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki023.jpg

a little check of what it'll look like with the new tires on. They are almost 10" taller than the old ones. LOL.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki024.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki025.jpg

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
LMAO, i had a feelin thats what happened. I was actually driving back from palm desert that morning, and tryin to figure out how i could get ahold of you, but you dont have a phone. I ended up gettin there a bit after noon, but i guess I was too late. Sorry man.

BTW, was that Oscars, or Albertacos? Both fine establishments, but Oscars is definitely my favorite.

Dallas

Ahh.. non of the above. I'll have to show you this place. Picture a clean Albertos, with Albertos prices, but after you order you sit down, and the lady brings you chips and salsa while you wait for the food. :D

(It's next to a check cashing place... Oh wait, that's every corner in Vista.)

-Wayne

Tell Robby to get his ass down there, and then hand hind a angle grinder with a bunch of 3M pads and tell him to clean that axle up. :D

What condition are the brake calipers in? I think I still have 2 extra pairs in so-so shape.

-Wayne

Ahhh, was it toms? the family restaraunt place?

as for the calipers, i may be hittin you up for some.

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
Ahhh, was it toms? the family restaraunt place?

as for the calipers, i may be hittin you up for some.

Dallas

Nope. :flipoff2: I guess you will have to show up to the shop next time I come by to visit you!! :mad: :( :D

No problem on the calipers. I'll have to find them first. They are in oneof the garages..:confused:

Guess which ones I used:
http://rz-products.com/WAYNE/UPDATES/030123/waynes1%20613.jpg

-Wayne

I don't pretend to be a suspension pro, but isn't that a lot of angle on the shackle for an unloaded spring? What's gonna happen when you add weight and flatten it out a little more? :eek: :confused:

looks loaded.....

Originally posted by BRB
looks loaded.....

I'm guessing there wil be more to the front end than whats there right now. Gonna go out out on a limb, but I would assume some tube, a radiator, and maybe a winch, etc would be in the works up front, so I would guess some weight willl be added flattening the springs a bit more at static height. :confused:

Yep thats loaded, its sitting on stands under the axle right now. As for shackle angle yeah it will probably get a little flatter when fully loaded and flexed, but its really not that bad. My shackles sit at a much more extreme angle and I haven't had any problems. If there are problems, It'll only take a couple hours to move the mount. This definitely isn't the final setup and there will likely be some more changes along the way.

Wayne, I told you to call before coming :p Lemmie know when you find the calipers. Looks like we found a drivetrain for it, just gotta make a few phone calls and get everything straightened out. I'll spill the details when we get everything nailed down, should be a killer setup for a zuk.

Dallas

Dallas,

Yada, yada, yada... So you want to bring the big green machine out for some fun at the Hammers the weekend prior to T-day?

-Wayne

I think the plan is to hit the hammers over T-day weekend. Probably gonna bring the green one, and Moms little red rig. Think moms tryin to get Gilbert and some others to come along as well.

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
I think the plan is to hit the hammers over T-day weekend. Probably gonna bring the green one, and Moms little red rig. Think moms tryin to get Gilbert and some others to come along as well.

Dallas

I'll probably be doing my red rock run that weekend. A little more light wheeling. Want to find some new areas out there.

-Wayne

Well, finally got home from SEMA and recovered and got back to work. Finally got started on a bit of tube over the last couple days. check it out.

chopped off the frame.....
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki026.jpg

Cleaned it up all purty like......
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki027.jpg

Bent up the base for the new rear tube frame....
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki028.jpg

At this point my girlfriend showed up with dinner and forced me to take a break. Then she decided that she wanted me to teach her how to weld :D

I couldn't pass up an opportunity like this so I pulled out some scrap and let her loose with the MIG
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/web/jeaneweld.jpg

Never thought I'd see that :eek:

Dallas

While she was having fun with the welder I got back to work with the bender and bent up a B-pillar hoop.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki029.jpg

About the time I got done with all the bends Jeane got bored and went home, so I got to start welding stuff on.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki031.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki030.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki032.jpg

The B hoop isn't welded in place yet, cause I'm gonna add some plates to the frame to gusset that rear frame section, and give a stronger base to weld the hoop to. Oh and yes the extra tube hangin off the bottom of the frame will be cut off :flipoff2:

Dallas

about time for update pics:flipoff2:

How about some pic's of the G/F....... :flipoff2:

Nice bending work. Those multi bends are not easy to get right, and it looks like you nailed them.

-Wayne

Wow, you're moving right along on that thing. I guess it goes faster when it's your job huh? :flipoff2:

I'm thinking about heading out to your shop sometime soon. Hmm... We shall see. But I'll be sure to call first. ;)

Yep that B-hoop took awhile to bend up. As for the GF, heres a shot of her workin on the pinkbug. :D

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/Bug/pinky2.jpg

Dallas

Heres what I did last night, cut out some plates and gussetted the frame where it meets the tube, also gives a nice strong place to attach the B-pillar hoop.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki034.jpg

hopefully tonight i'll get some more tube bent and have something more exciting to look at :D

Dallas

that frame extension and bumper/spring bucket desing looks familiar :flipoff2:

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by DSI
:flipoff2:

Ya, it's a good thing you invented that design and posted it, or otherwise Dallas would have lost a valued 15 to 20 mins of his life trying to figure it out:laughing: :laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing: :laughing:

Originally posted by Bill4rest


Ya, it's a good thing you invented that design and posted it, or otherwise Dallas would have lost a valued 15 to 20 mins of his life trying to figure it out:laughing: :laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing: :laughing:


15-20? i'd venture to think more than that... they say that copying somethign from someone is the best form of compliment... :D

Originally posted by DSI



15-20? i'd venture to think more than that... they say that copying somethign from someone is the best form of compliment... :D

And lazyness:D

Originally posted by Bill4rest


And lazyness:D

Guess that makes me the laziest guy on this board. Nothing is original on my rig except for the Cage :D Oh, and maybe the Shrockworks front bumper ;)

Originally posted by StinkBug
Yep that B-hoop took awhile to bend up. As for the GF, heres a shot of her workin on the pinkbug. :D

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/Bug/pinky2.jpg

Dallas

pssst! That bug is not Pink! :p

Originally posted by kozaz


pssst! That bug is not Pink! :p

It is now, check page 1 :p

oh and DSI, i've never seen that rig, I stole my ideas from rotozuks buildup :flipoff2:

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug


It is now, check page 1 :p

oh and DSI, i've never seen that rig, I stole my ideas from rotozuks buildup :flipoff2:

Dallas

LOL! I've been Bitched Slapped!
I did not know that Mary Kay was still selling door to door.

Originally posted by StinkBug


It is now, check page 1 :p

oh and DSI, i've never seen that rig, I stole my ideas from rotozuks buildup :flipoff2:

Dallas

Its pink!

Like Bill said, nothing all that special about it anyhow. I give a big nod to Scwafish since I looked at his buildup before doing mine. I imagine he may have looked elsewhere?

-Wayne

Originally posted by NC Zuk


Guess that makes me the laziest guy on this board. Nothing is original on my rig except for the Cage :D Oh, and maybe the Shrockworks front bumper ;)

How many people have that bumper?:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bill4rest


How many people have that bumper?:flipoff2:

I don't know what you are talking about. I've never seen one in my life! (If I don't count all of the ones I have seen.)

-Wayne

Heres what I added last night after school, I'm headed back to the shop right now to finish off the front section of the cage.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki035.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki036.jpg

Dallas

Lookin good man!!
Scott

Originally posted by Bill4rest


How many people have that bumper?:flipoff2:

But who had it first ?? Um................ :flipoff2:

Sorry, I don't mean to hi-jack the thread.


That thing is looking sweet. :eek: Do you have any drawings of what the target design is, or is it all in your head ??

well there are a few napkin sketches, and we went through a ton of photos of other rigs picking out features we liked, but there isn't one single sketch that shows the whole thing, a lot of it is in my head.

I would have a couple pics of the front section of the cage for you right now, but I left the cam at home :rolleyes: I'm headin back over to the shop in a little while and will get pics then. Front cross bar at the top of the windshield looks :evil:

Dallas

Originally posted by NC Zuk


But who had it first ?? Um................ :flipoff2:



UH.....I think Jim did:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bill4rest




UH.....I think Jim did:flipoff2:

oh no, that was a "prototype" not to be confused with the "first" production bumper :flipoff2: Silly, silly Navy boy :rolleyes:

Alright heres tonights real pics. I got the front header tube done with some gussets, and added some reinforcement to the rear as well.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki037.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki038.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki039.jpg

and the rear frame bracing
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki040.jpg

Dallas

Originally posted by NC Zuk


oh no, that was a "prototype" not to be confused with the "first" production bumper :flipoff2: Silly, silly Navy boy :rolleyes:


Ok ok Your the original... don't roid out on me:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bill4rest



Ok ok Your the original... don't roid out on me:flipoff2:

Hey, Don't confuse me with a "SEAL" :rolleyes: i'm a Greet Beenie :beret: :D

Hey Dallas, that is looking better and better. I know very little about bending tube and strength of it. But I am wondering, does bending that upper front tube like that take away from the original strength of the tube? I know, probably a stupid question but i'm still asking it. Thanks!!



:usa: :beret:

Originally posted by NC Zuk


Hey, Don't confuse me with a "SEAL" :rolleyes: i'm a Greet Beenie :beret: :D

All you SF guys are mussel heads:flipoff2: Me? I'll take my hot pocket well done at 26,000ft before nap time:D (P-3 humor)



Originally posted by NC Zuk
Hey Dallas, that is looking better and better. I know very little about bending tube and strength of it. But I am wondering, does bending that upper front tube like that take away from the original strength of the tube? I know, probably a stupid question but i'm still asking it. Thanks!!


Everytime you bend tube you make it weak spot if not re-emforced, I'm thinking it's mostly for looks. But I'm sure it will still be plenty stout for a slow type roll over. I think he might put in a center /\ at that point.

Right you are Bill. It does take away some strength, and there will be some more support going back to the B-pillar, and possibly to the dash bar, though i'm not sure on that one since the windshield is already so small and it would really block vision. I'm also still not sure that front bar is gonna stay, may replace it with one without the kink in the middle. Its just tacked in right now so If we decide we dont like it in a few days its easy to get rid of. :)

Dallas

How well does it work with the mirror and sun visors? I like the look of it.. I don't think you took out enough strength to worry about. The verticals are going to take most of the side loads in a hard roll anyhow.

I really do not think that a Samurai needs a 200 mph cage. Strong yet light is good. A little style for extra points.

-Wayne (the guy with the minimal cage)

Originally posted by rotozuk

I really do not think that a Samurai needs a 200 mph cage. Strong yet light is good. A little style for extra points.

-Wayne (the guy with the minimal cage)

Exacta'mundo! If it were not for me having kids, I would prob change my cage out for a complete .095 cage

actually the truck didn't come with sunvisors, and robby doesn't care about em, and the mirror was one of those 3' wide multiple mirror jobbies you see on all the lowriders :flipoff2: He doesn't want that back either, so we'll probably just grab somethin out of the junkyard and make it work.

Dallas

Spent most of this week workin on some new products so not much got done on the sami, but I did manage to get a few hours in on it today. Started forming the rear end a little more, and got the dash cross bar in. I also took some of Waynes advice and turned Robby loose with a wire wheel today stripping and cleaning up the axles. Pretty much got the rear one done, and started disassembling the front one before we had to leave. Probably get him to finish up with em next weekend if he's around. :D

Heres the pics, since I know thats all you care about :flipoff2:


got a little crowded in here earlier in the week.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zukishop.jpg

Once I got Gilberts tank outta there I got a little work done on the zuk.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki041.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki042.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki043.jpg

Dallas

What size tire you gonna run on that bad boy again?

Looking good.. by the way, you missed out on a great weekend! And you better not be working on that next weekend!

What did you do on Gilbert's Trooper?

-Wayne

damn Dallas you have been busy :D

looking sweet :flipoff2:

Originally posted by rotozuk
Looking good.. by the way, you missed out on a great weekend! And you better not be working on that next weekend!
-Wayne

Where are the pics?

Originally posted by Bill4rest


Where are the pics?

Where are your picks? I need to see a new little wheeler addition before I'm sharing the pics with you! :D

(Sorry you couldn't make it.. Do show us some shots of your latest creation when it you are ready. I'm guessing you are still waiting for that right moment.)

(aka I left the camera at home today.. and Sean is still driving home.)

-Wayne

I'll be there next weekend for sure, and I think Robby's comin with us. Got a little bit more work done today, not much since I was busy workin on a customer rig, but the one tube I did add definitely gives the truck a lot more of the final shape we're goin for.

as for Gilberts rig, I built a mount for some really trick jerry can holders he got from a guy at SEMA and used his truck to prototype a new product for StinkyFab

www.stinkyfab.com/slinks.html

heres the pics:

the cleaned up rear axle, still have work to do, but much better than before.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki044.jpg

and the new tube
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki045.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki046.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki047.jpg

Dallas

I know, not many updates lately, but thats because there really hasn't been much to show. Did some more work on the axles, and spent a ton of time designing the new aluminum dash. Got it all done in CAD and started laying out the sheetmetal in class tonight. I guess i'll give you an idea what it will look like. Heres a copy of the layout. If you can figure out how it goes together you're smarter than anyone in my sheetmetal class :flipoff2:

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/dash2.jpg

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki047.jpg

is it just me or is the rear of this thing not lined up with the front? looks like the rear and front do this \/ (only on a much smaller scale)

ps...the way I'm looking at it to get this perspective is the hood line vs the upper rear tube.

yep your right. the rear end does rise just very slightly. in that pic the body wasn't sitting quite level, but when it is the tail end of the truck is about 1-2" higher than where it meets the targa. Another decieving thing about that pic is that the front clip isn't sitting level either. Its been goin on and off so much I dont bother trying to align it properly, if you look at the lower door hinge you can see that its not quite in place.

Dallas

If that dash goes together the way I think it does...it's going to look sweet.

I kinda like the idea of the rear angled higher than the front. Would be pretty functional too...

OK heres the pics from the last couple days. Got the fuel tank mounting tacked in and started building the floor framing around it.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki049.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki048.jpg

Dallas

Well I had a customer call up and ask to come by to have some work done late this afternoon, so while I was waiting for him to arrive I started torching all the unneeded brackets off the front axle. Tomorrow I'll grind em all down smooth and turn Robby loose with the wire wheel so that both axles are nice and pretty.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki050.jpg

Dallas

Kewl job...
Can't wait to see it rolling...

Got to see Danny's new coil set up on the rear of his Samurai at Toys 4 Tots. Turned out really nice. Seems to handle really well, and has just a hint of weight transfer to the rear. For their first coil set up, and wild guesses at the 4 link, they seemed to have nailed it. Sits nice and low too.

He took it out to Pismo for the t-day holiday, and he said it did work well there, and flex looked good. sorry, no pics.

-Wayne

Yesterday Robby came down and while I was torchin the brackets off the rear axle he cleaned up the front, then did a TON of grinding on the rear when I was done to get em both all cleaned up and ready to go. Got all new bearings and seals for both axles, except for the inner axle seals on the front. Seems parts store guys cant find anything other than a wheel seal without going brain dead. Where are you guys getting your inner seals? got a part #? I went to both AZ and kragen and neither had a listing and the seal I pulled out didn't have any numbers to cross reference from.

I was supposed to fold up the dash today but for some reason we werent in the lab at school tonight so it will have to wait til wednesday. Got all the pieces cut out and ready to go, just need to do about 50 bends on the brake. :)

Anyways heres the pretty axle pic:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki051.jpg

Dallas

Originally posted by rotozuk
Got to see Danny's new coil set up...

... sorry, no pics.

-Wayne

Your post is worthless without pics :flipoff2:

Dallas

I got all of my Toyota axle rebuild part from am unlikely source...Toyota

We have an insanely good dealer in Santa Rosa and I have found that the factory toy parts aren't any more expensive than quality aftermarket, with the exception of an occasional "WTF, why is this so expensive part". Some parts are actually cheaper at Toyota.

Looking good. I really like your design.

Sorry if I missed it. I didnt read through the whole post but what wheelbase are you shooting for?

Originally posted by scwafish
I got all of my Toyota axle rebuild part from am unlikely source...Toyota

We have an insanely good dealer in Santa Rosa and I have found that the factory toy parts aren't any more expensive than quality aftermarket, with the exception of an occasional "WTF, why is this so expensive part". Some parts are actually cheaper at Toyota.

You are lucky.. ! My Toyota dealer like most all of the auto dealers here suck unless you are trying to buy a LED light up key chain... Prices are high also. I bought most of my bits I needed from AllPro. Had them the next day.

After some work, I was able to get the little balls for the t-case from the Toyota dealer, but I had the counter guy deeper into the computer then he had ever gone. I could not talk them into buying one of the items as they have to buy a lot of 4 of them from Toyota. Their cost was about a .98 a ball, and they were selling them for $6.00 Argh!

Dallas, a flap disk works great on those axles. Just stay with a mid grit. :D hell, a flap disk works great on a LOT of stuff.

-Wayne

Dude these axles came out quite clean with the wire wheel, plenty ready for paint IMHO.

I'm gonna check the dealer for those seals since no one seems to have em. just wondering if anyone had a kragen or autozone or pep tards part number handy.

Erik: the wheelbase should be about 100"

Dallas

Well today I finally got to fold up the dash and some pieces for the floor in back. Only problem is when I went to fold up the center piece the edges started to crack where they were folded. :( Good part is one of the instructors for the welding class was around and offered to TIG the edges for me. So now instead of clean bends I have some really nice lookin TIG beads. Pretty cool IMHO. Still needs a bit of trimming and tweaking to make it fit, but it should be done in a few days if I can get some time. While the instructor was welding up the center control panel I sheared up some pieces for the floor in the back. Pretty much got all the panels covering the gas tank done, again just some final trimming and fitting to do. :D

The Dash.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki052.jpg

half of the dash somewhat installed in the samurai
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki053.jpg

And the rear floor panels
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki054.jpg
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki055.jpg

Dallas

Don't worry about the TIG welds.. If you like you should be able to round them over for a clean look. The Petroworks dashes have welds on the sides, but they get rounded off, and you can't tell in the finished product.

-Wayne

has anyone actually gotten any spypics of the petroworks dash? prices?

I'm kinda thinkin about leavin the TIG welds in place, they are actually quite nice welds. No way i coulda done it that smooth. Guess thats why he's the one teaching people how to do it though. We'll see, smoothing em over would be easy, leavin em would be easier, and its really all about what the owner would like more.

Dallas

Originally posted by Sarcastro
has anyone actually gotten any spypics of the petroworks dash? prices?

Pictures are in their new catalog. Ask for a free catalog to be sent out to you.

I have seen several of them in Samurai's, and they all look really nice. But be warned, you will spend more money on gauges then you do on the dash itself.

-Wayne

Originally posted by StinkBug
I'm kinda thinkin about leavin the TIG welds in place, they are actually quite nice welds. No way i coulda done it that smooth. Guess thats why he's the one teaching people how to do it though. We'll see, smoothing em over would be easy, leavin em would be easier, and its really all about what the owner would like more.

Dallas

end hijack

Sounds good. If you do want to "soften the tig" I have found that the little 3M pads on a die grinder does a great job. (Is this aluminum or steel?)

-Wayne

Its aluminum. Are you talkin about the sanding pads, or the scotch brite type pads?

Dallas

the rig is looking good Dallas, but is that the stock gas tank under the rear floor panel? looks it bit higher then stock but why not a fuel cell in the rear deck?

For now it is the stock gas tank, in the future it may get changed for a custom fuel cell, but at the moment we are looking to save money and make it easier to get through the smog ref. Since most fuel cells aren't carb legal keeping the stock tank makes for one less thing they can whine about.

Dallas

updates? :D

wheres the updates????? id it done yet:D

I'll second the request for updates. :D Since I haven't said it yet, looks good man. Keep up the good work.

looks good can't wait to see it finished

So I guess you are still working on ZuzuGrl's rig? :rolleyes:

ok dallas, time for an update :flipoff2:

He has been playing.. I saw him out at Truckhaven a few weekends ago. I think he was out doing "research".

-Wayne

Coming along real nice, Dallas. A word of advice though........... don't take anymore time away from the Sami to spend on Isuzus. Everyone knows those things are a lost cause when it comes to off-road capability:flipoff2:
________
Ashy (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Ashy/)

Alright alright, sheesh. Yep I been busy. The holidays kinda mixed everything up for me and I ended up gettin busy workin on jeeps and isuzus for the last couple weeks :rolleyes: :p

Heres the last of the pre-holidays work:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki056.jpg

Well yesterday this showed up:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki058.jpg

Looks like I've got more work ahead of me now that we have a motor and tranny :D

and today I decided to do a little work on the cage again
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki059.jpg

I'll try to be a little quicker with the updates from now on :flipoff2:

Dallas

bout time:flipoff2:

Dallas,

Going to need some help with that wire harness? Get me a good Toyota manual for that motor, and I think I'll be able to get it up and running. I'll even show you that good restaurant. :flipoff2:

Take some more pics of that motor... Looks like the intake is on the drivers side..? That could be a problem. You have anywhere to run the passenger side exhaust that will not hit the front driveshaft? brake booster clearance on the intake? Wonder why Toyota flipped sides? (Isn't the 22R family all drivers side exhuast?)

-Wayne

yep, drivers intake passenger exhaust. Havent gone through all the clearance issues yet, but we'll make it fit. I'm guessing the changeover has something to do with the drivers drop t-cases used on the tacos and the new DOHC head.

Thanks for the offer on the wiring help, I'm lookin for a good wiring diagram right now. I'm sure I can figure it out, but theres no way i'm gonna turn down an offer from someone with your experience stripping wires out of all sorts of crazy shit :D

More pics to come as soon as the camera finishes uploading. I got some great progress on the cage done today :)

Dallas

Were is the bell housing? The one on thet G52 isnt going to fit up the that RZ motor. Im buinding a new tub buggy with a 3RZ to a W59 with a W56 main shaft and tail housing and a duel ultimat marlin crawler t-case. I will be trying to sort out the wiring in the next couple of mounths and would be interested in any imput that you guys have.

We haven't gotten a bellhousing for it yet. The guy was gonna send me the taco bell as well, but since it was from an auto trans it wouldn't have done us any good. Will be gettin a taco bell out of a junkyard soon.

Dallas

Today I went into the shop and decided I wanted to finish off the main structure of the roll cage. I've had the design in my head for a couple months now, but when i went to build it, as usual, I accidentally came across something I liked a bit more. I'm in a pretty good mood right now, cause I got a lot done and IMHO it came out pretty good. Its still gonna get some gussetts, and eventually it'll be getting door bars and seat supports, and maybe I'll actually weld a few of the tubes all the way around one of these days :D

Your pics for today:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki060.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki061.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki062.jpg

and a couple with the targa and windshield in place:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki063.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki064.jpg


Tonight I started disconnecting everything from the stock motor and with any luck it should be coming out next monday when I can borrow a hoist. Once Its out I'll be cleaning up the engine compartment a bit, and carefully pulling all the engine management wiring out of the stock harness. The 1.3 will be getting reused in something else so i wanna make sure we remove all the important stuff to make it go.

Dallas

you could probably lift the 1.3 out without a hoist.

nice progress! me likey!

Well the sami actually left the shop for a short time tonight, though it was sitting on a furniture dolley :flipoff2: I needed to turn it around in the shop so I would have more access to the front end. It was actually pretty funny, damn thing is so light now me and my buddy could almost pick it up by ourselves :p

Draggin it outside.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki067.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki068.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki069.jpg

and the real reason for spinning it around, finally pulled the stock drivetrain out, that and now that the cage was done it was in the way of the bender :)

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki070.jpg

BTW, WTF are these 2 little thingies on the passenger side of the firewall?
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki066.jpg

and one last shot of the cage, just cause I like it :flipoff2:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki071.jpg

Dallas

looks good dallas. I think I might have to steal some of your design when it comes time for my bronco. that is, if you don't mind :flipoff2:

Dont think theres a way i could stop you even if I did mind :)

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
Dont think theres a way i could stop you even if I did mind :)

Dallas

well with the rate things are goin over at bronco alley, it might be a year till I get my rig done :(. I might find somethin new by then :D

Looks really nice.

Those things on the fire wall are for the carb controls. One is a pressure sensor for altitude compensation. Forget what the other is.

Break out the pressure washer and get that fire wall nice and clean while you have easy access! Also a god idea to look at running fuel and brake lines while you have easy access.

-Wayne

what's the target weight and tire size? Think you'll be breaking the toyota axles? Looking good:beer:

This thing is gonna be gettin a bunch of cleanin while its apart. The underside of the tranny tunnel is aaaaalllll nasty. I got robby findin that service manual for ya wayne, just tell me when you wanna come down :D BTW you still got that engine hoist?:)

Its gonna be runnin on 35s, but we dont really have a target weight. Its just a trail rig so weight isn't really a top concern. It should be fairly light, but we're not goin to any great lengths to cut down. The toy axles should hold up fine, especially once we get some longs or profields in there.

Dallas

That is looking great. I think it looks a lot better with the targa bar on there.

Looks really good!! I like the way the cage turned out too! Are you going to tube the front at all?

Are you planning on goin with seats in the back?

At this point we're not sure what is going to happen with the front. we'd really like to keep the stock sheetmetal, but depending on how the motor fits we may end up tubing the front out a bit too. The plan is to have one center mounted rear bucket seat that can be easily removed. The owner has a 12 year old nephew that will probably come wheelin with him and he wants to have room to bring another kid in case his nephew wants to bring a friend.

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
This thing is gonna be gettin a bunch of cleanin while its apart. The underside of the tranny tunnel is aaaaalllll nasty. I got robby findin that service manual for ya wayne, just tell me when you wanna come down :D BTW you still got that engine hoist?:)

Its gonna be runnin on 35s, but we dont really have a target weight. Its just a trail rig so weight isn't really a top concern. It should be fairly light, but we're not goin to any great lengths to cut down. The toy axles should hold up fine, especially once we get some longs or profields in there.

Dallas

Ohh Robby, I have a little cleaning job for you again.... :flipoff2:

Let me know when you are ready for a visit. I hear rumor your mom is coming up for some fine South American food this week..? If you have the manual available, have her bring it up so I can study it.

Yes, the hoist is available. It is pulled apart right now in Anaheim. I put a new cylinder on it a while back, but it lived outdoors for a while, so the cylinder has some rust, but I'm told it still works fine. Come and get it.

Gotta run..

-Wayne

Last night I had dinner with Wayne (rotozuk) and he was kind enough to let me borrow his hoist, so tonight I put it to use. I picked up the toy motor to see approximately how the motro would fit. Check it out.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki072.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki073.jpg

Looks like the intake will just barely clear the master cylinder, but it will fit quite nicely. Still unsure whether the stock sheetmetal will go back on or not, but we'll find out.

Dallas

what size tubing are you using?

awesome job by the way.:cool:

Most of it is 1-1/2" though the base of the frame is 1-3/4 and there is some 1-1/4" in there too.

Dallas

anything in the past 11 days dallas?

He called me to let me know he has a Toyota wiring manual on order. Guess I might have to drag my lazy bones down there now.. :(

-Wayne

Originally posted by rotozuk
He called me to let me know he has a Toyota wiring manual on order. Guess I might have to drag my lazy bones down there now.. :(

-Wayne


Wayne, ask Dallas if his manual covers the 97 3rz. If it does Ill have to try working out a deal with him.:D

Lookin' good Dallas!!

Hurry up and finish that Zuki Project so we can do something with my old Bronco.

I got a new truck so I am ready to do something extreme with the Ford.

Did I mention that I am ready to spend some $$$ on it too?

Steve G

Holly crap.. Steve G. is going to have a built rig?

What plans you have for the Bronco? I'm sure you have a rough idea.


Randy, I'll wait for Dallas to reply to that question. I have no idea. I'm hoping you guys have the same basic set up. Sure will make things easier. In an ideal world I'll be able to thin both harnesses at the sametime.

-Wayne

When I asked for the manual I just told him I needed the wiring diagrams for a 01 taco and he said he'd order it, so i'm assuming it will have the diagrams for all the motor/tranny combos.

Steve, I actually need to talk to you as well. Gimmie a call or shoot me an email and we can work everything out.

Dallas

Lookin good Dallas. This is the first time I've had to check it out.

Glad the engine made it to you OK.

Later,
Vince

Thanks again Vince.

Dallas

Alright heres a few new pics for you guys. I got started o*n the rear suspension a couple days ago. Got the lowers pretty much where I want em, and started o*n the uppers last night. I think I'm gonna lower the upper frame mount a little, but gotta do a little more thinkin o*n it before makin anything permanent. Any suggestions are welcome.

Lower frame mount
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki074.jpg

lower axle mounts
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki075.jpg

Side shot of the rear suspension
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki076.jpg

above shot of same, still missing o*ne of the uppers
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki077.jpg

and just for fun I rolled a couple of my 37s over just to see how it would look.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki078.jpg


Dallas

Wow, 24 hours and no suspension criticisms?

Dallas

Originally posted by StinkBug
Wow, 24 hours and no suspension criticisms?

Dallas

no :flipoff2:

edit: rig looks real good with the 37's sittin next to it. can't wait to see it done. wish my rig would get done soon :(

Originally posted by StinkBug
Wow, 24 hours and no suspension criticisms?

Dallas

I'll only tell you what you did wrong when your done:flipoff2:





















J/k:D

Originally posted by RedNeckRea


no :flipoff2:

edit: rig looks real good with the 37's sittin next to it. can't wait to see it done. wish my rig would get done soon :(

You might want to start it one of these days. I understand that helps get them done sooner. :flipoff2:

-Wayne

Originally posted by rotozuk


You might want to start it one of these days. I understand that helps get them done sooner. :flipoff2:

-Wayne

unfortunately school, work, and a lack of ability hinder the starting process :(

Finally got a bit more progress to show ya. These are from a couple days ago. Got the rear links all mocked up and all the brackets in place. The upper axle mounts still need some reinforcement and cleaning up, but the geometry is pretty much set now.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki086.jpg

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki087.jpg

More to come in the next post ;)

Dallas

Wayne, AKA RotoZuk, came down to the shop yesterday and we managed to pull off a mad marathon of tracing and chopping wires. This harness ended up being a bit more time consuming than we thought. Worked from about 11am-3am yesterday, including a trip to the junk yard for some goodies, and from about noon to 8 today.

I cant thank Wayne enough for helpin me out with this, theres no wayway i coulda done it myself.


Heres a shot of Wayne at around with our mess of wires stretched out on the "work bench"
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki079.jpg

I believe this shot was taken at about 2am. The connector I'm messin with ended up takin us like 45 min to figure out. I think we were gettin a little tired, cause all we had to do was move 2 wires over one place and it was gettin us all screwed up. Scary part is if we did it wrong the motor wont start :eek:
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki080.jpg

Heres Robby (the owner of Bugzuki) cleanin some of the crap off the firewall and unwrapping the zuk harness for us. He gets to do all the fun nasty stuff :p
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki081.jpg

Interior shot of the zuk harness. Most of this is coming out as we decided to use all the body control circuits from the toyota harness and just tap them into the stock ignition switch, wiper switch, and turn signal stalk.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki082.jpg

Heres where we're at now, the toy harness is pretty much thinned out and ready to go in, but there will be more work to be done so its just held together by a little tape for now.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki083.jpg

and finally the pile of crap we removed
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki084.jpg

Dallas

Oh, I almost forgot the pic of Wayne testing out my bike.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki085.jpg

:flipoff2:

Dallas

Dallas,

I think you need to get the camera check out. All the pictures with people turn out looking like crack heads. :flipoff2:


For those that give a heck, I'll share my thoughts on the Toyota wire harness. I have worked on a few different harness jobs now. Mazda, Mitsubishi and Suzuki.

I was curious to see how Toyota might differ from other makes as I know Toyota tends to like doing things there own way. Also, being the first OBD2 set up, I was wondering how tough this would be. Well it turns out that the OBD2 stuff is not a big deal. Infact I'd say this is easier then my OBD1 Mitsubishi layout. But the harness itself took a lot more time as Toyota does not splice wires except a few ground connections. All wires that would have been spliced are instead lead to a "junction connector" where it plugs into a complex jumper set. This means that most every wire you chase goes to one of these junction blocks. This adds a lot of time to the process, and a fair amount of bulk. Our guess is to avoid warranty repairs to the wire harness from splices that have gone wrong, or it allows Toyota to add more features to the existing harness as the vehicle developes over the years?? (or perhaps different markets and models)

We still have some connections we can remove from this harness, but we will get the engine running first. Unlike the Mitsubishi in my Samurai that uses one ECU to do everything, the Toyota uses a series of ECUs to things like SRS, ABS, transmission, t-case and rear diff lock. they are all interconnected.

Another issue we have is that the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) is not like all of the other vehicles I have worked on. (Suzuki et all used a reed switch that was located in the speed-o cluster and driven by the speed-o cable.) Well, this Toyota does not use a speed-o cable at all. It is all electronic. It appears that the transmission had an electronic VSS. We will have to get some information on this. The instrument cluster may well be required for the ECU to get the correct VSS signal it needs. I'm not 100% clear as the Toyota manual does not explain the circuits.

The other reason the harness looks so full is that we are keeping all of the body items you would usually kill off. We made this diecision as we had no plans to keep the stock Samurai cluster or dash. Thus no need to keep the Samurai harness,and crappy fuse block etc. This will make installation into the vehicle much easier as we will not have to join 2 harnesses like I did in mine. Thus we only need to pick up some switches for the lighting, horn, heater, fuel tank, key etc. We have already labeled these items in the Samurai.

Oh yeah, don't eat at the Denny's near Dallas' house. Lets just say it didn't stay with me for long. (Do GO to Tom's though!)

-Wayne

p.s. What is red, white, black and gray and goes about 30 mph and has no brakes?

did you die???????????
where're the pics man?!?!?!!?
updates??
have you just been spending a lot of time on stink bug???

Nahh, he went to Moab and fixed my junk. :D

-Wayne

Originally posted by RngrDv
I was expecting something more along the lines of this

http://mobilmultimedia.com/bugzuki/

bad link, is there a new/good one

updates or are you still working on roto's junk?

actually haven't touched rotos POS, thats his job :D

As for Bugzuki, there hasn't been any visual progress, but a lot of parts are startin to come in and there should be some big changes soon. I've been out of town a lot lately so not much time in the shop, but next week should be good if I can get my own rig out of the way.

Last week we got:
Seats
Harnesses
2nd t-case
dual case adapter
bellhousing
fox air shox
wheels
and a bunch more little shit, and ideas for the rest.

Dallas

Dallas has plenty of work on his plate... He doesn't need to worry about my junk. Is there a nice oil slick under it yet?

I was over at Petro yesterday and I pestered him about getting some shop time for the adapter. Said this weekend looks good. :D I might have to pester him a bit this week to keep that plan active.

Once that is well on its way, I hope to have a good idea on what I am doing to the Roto.

-Wayne

Well heres a bling pic to keep you guys entertained a little. Heres all the stuff thats arrived recently, hopefully there will be some good pics of engine mounts coming together tomorrow. Wish I could start gettin the whole drivetrain mounted, but unfortunately the dual case adapter didn't arrive as expected. Oh well, it'll show up soon and it'll get done.


http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/zuki088.jpg

Dallas

the rig is looking really good!... also, i hafta ask about the bike... where did you get it?... website?

Dallas,



Another issue we have is that the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) is not like all of the other vehicles I have worked on. (Suzuki et all used a reed switch that was located in the speed-o cluster and driven by the speed-o cable.) Well, this Toyota does not use a speed-o cable at all. It is all electronic. It appears that the transmission had an electronic VSS. We will have to get some information on this. The instrument cluster may well be required for the ECU to get the correct VSS signal it needs. I'm not 100% clear as the Toyota manual does not explain the circuits.




I think that these VSS's are little generators. They just produce a 0-5v signal that increases with output shaft rpm. Some of the applications that use these, can have the speedo/tire size/gearing calibrated in the software (chip). You can hook one up to a drill motor and use a VOM to see the voltage rise. MIKE

also, i hafta ask about the bike... where did you get it?... website?

WWW.STINKYFAB.COM

I build em

Dallas

them things are pimp!

Just got home from the shop, spent most of the weekend workin hard on the rig with the help of Rotozuk. I'll have some good pics for you guys tomorrow. Too tired right now.

Dallas

I think that these VSS's are little generators. They just produce a 0-5v signal that increases with output shaft rpm. Some of the applications that use these, can have the speedo/tire size/gearing calibrated in the software (chip). You can hook one up to a drill motor and use a VOM to see the voltage rise. MIKE

Mike, do you know an easy way to put one of these little generator dealies on an older gear driven t-case that has the standard speedo cable hook up on it?

Dallas

Mike,

Thanks for the info.. If that is the case I bet we can fab up a little cable that could connect to one of these. Or better yet Dallas can visit the local speed-o shop and see what magic things they have.

We got some good work done and will post pictures later. Need to get some things done here at the office first. That motor fits in there pretty darned nice. Tranny tunnel has been modified to let the Toyota trans and t-case to fit in. No cutting required. Wire harness is done...?

-Wayne

Just got home from the shop, spent most of the weekend workin hard on the rig with the help of Rotozuk. I'll have some good pics for you guys tomorrow. Too tired right now.

Dallas


tapping foot eagerly (since my truck aint gettin done I gotta drool over someone elses :flipoff2:

Well you can quit tappin, I got a few pics for ya, and this time they're big ones :D

The drivetrain, minus a crawler box
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0404.JPG

Wayne messin with our surprise steering box.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0405.JPG

fits like a glove
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0412.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0414.JPG

Shifter locations
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0408.JPG

Enjoy

Dallas

Got some more for you guys today. I been workin my ass off lately and tonight is the first night i've gotten home before 12:30. Got the drivetrain put together this week and in the frame. Finished off the motor mounts today and got the motor bolted in, just gotta build the tranny mounts now.

Heres the stuff that showed up on wednesday.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0442.JPG

and heres the drivetrain all bolted together. Can you say fawkin LONG!
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0449.JPG

another pic to show some scale with my helper Josh in the background.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0452.JPG

The new motor mounts
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0454.JPG

Here is is, all bolted in.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0459.JPG

both sides of the mounts
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0460.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0465.JPG

fits under the hood just fine, and the stock throttle cable works perfect.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0466.JPG

Dallas

I like how the motor mounts turned out.

I'm still in the office! Ack. See you in the morning.

-Wayne

Arent you worried about those mounts buzzzing too hard? I had one side as a bushing on my 16v and it vibrated like cray, it turned the steering wheel into a massager. It got really old really fast and I went with a different style.

Arent you worried about those mounts buzzzing too hard? I had one side as a bushing on my 16v and it vibrated like cray, it turned the steering wheel into a massager. It got really old really fast and I went with a different style.

Are you talking about the poly bushings? I have poly bushings on the motor mounts and tranny mount on my jeep, and vibrations aren't bad at all, well, they weren't until we made tube fenders that tied the body to the frame.

I like poly mounts though. :smokin:

Actually that was something we considered, I will be sourcing some rubber bushings to replace the poly ones. Not really too worried, these motors run a lot smoother than a 16v and it only has a few miles on it.

Dallas

Spank-the frequency of a jeep motor and a zuk motor isn't the same. I have V8s with solid mounts that were less obnoxious than a zuk with poly mounts.

Stinky- ;)

I just about beat him over the head with a wrench to not go the polly mounts, but this motor is almost brand new, I think it has ballance shafts, and he will be dropping in rubber when they arrive. Worse comes to worse we can always change them if they proove horrible.

I have heard horror stories of 4 bangers on polly mounts. To the point they makes your hands go numb, etc.

I actually think they will be ok.

We made a little more progress on the Zuk, but not much. The front axle is built up to the spindles. (Waiting for a few lugs) and the Isuzu steering box has been located and frame doubler made. Just needs some sleeve material to finish the install.

A rear sump oil pan will be required to clear the drag link and tie rod. Either that or the front axle would have to be moved another 5+ inches forward from the engine.

-Wayne

So what's next? Do I need to drive down and lend a hand? Can you put a SOA YJ suspension on my zuk while I'm down? Oh..and do it for free? :p

Well, My only question is, how well is it gonna drive when the rear driveshaft is only gonna be 3" long :flipoff2:
Scott

Plenty of room for a rear drive shaft... Keep in mind how far back that rear axle is.

Spank.. Bring your junk down and I will throw some YJs at it.. As long as you bring the YJs, and don't make me clean up the mess from the YJs hitting your rig. :)

Have to talk to Dallas, but doing the SPOA is pretty easy. The YJ install takes a bit longer unless you use the TT kit. Then it should be about a days work if you are good, and maybe a little lucky. Just make sure you have a steering solution figured out so you can drive it home. I don't think Dallas wants any more Zuks added to his collection.

-Wayne

you gonna go with a rear sump oil pan from a 2.7 T-100? the pan and the dipsitick tube is a strait swap, no need some sort of splash gard or something at the alt. ive learned from wheelin my tacoma that its EASY to fry one in mud and water, ive fried two, a buddy of mine fried 9 in two or three years! lookin good man, im so jealous!! :flipoff2:

Plenty of room for a rear drive shaft... Keep in mind how far back that rear axle is.

Spank.. Bring your junk down and I will throw some YJs at it.. As long as you bring the YJs, and don't make me clean up the mess from the YJs hitting your rig. :)

Have to talk to Dallas, but doing the SPOA is pretty easy. The YJ install takes a bit longer unless you use the TT kit. Then it should be about a days work if you are good, and maybe a little lucky. Just make sure you have a steering solution figured out so you can drive it home. I don't think Dallas wants any more Zuks added to his collection.

-Wayne

hehehehehe. :D I have the YJ springs. But I might wait and see if I can get a formula zuk tube chassis first. Oh, and a SOA requires new tires, and I can barely afford gas to get to Escondildo. Maybe I'll just cruise down and we can fix my taillight wiring. Cuz I know you guys LOVE electrical demons :flipoff2: I'm going to AZ this weekend, so maybe Memorial Day or something.

Well if you cant afford gas to get to Escondildo you're gonna have a hard time getting to VISTA since thats where the shop is. fawker :flipoff2:

Oh and scott, we've still got about 30" left for a driveshaft.

Dallas

Well lots of fun stuff goin on this weekend. Another big thanks goes out to Rotozuk for drivin down and helpin me out once again. We got a lot of little things done this weekend, but all of them very important. Heres the pics from this weekend:

Wayne workin on the rear diff guard and bracketry.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0624.JPG

This is where we seemed to have lost our way. We had this awesome idea for some cool ass shit that would blend the function of the axle bracing and guards with some funky art. The idea was to have some kinda evil tail comin down the back of the diff, but once it was done we both kinda wondered what we were thinkin. I still kinda like it though.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0626.JPG

Got the links built and welded and once our little arts and crafts project was done we got the housing back under the truck.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0634.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0639.JPG

Dallas

While Wayne was busy cutting up brackets all day I was working on the seat mounts. We're using these APC racerboy type seats with all sorts of side bolstering. Really nice seats, and cheap, but they are kind of a tight fit. The upper shoulder bolsters still rub the targa a little, but they should be fine.

Heres the mounts all tied to the cage.
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0646.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0645.JPG

We also got the clutch master cylinder mounted to the firewall and hooked up to the pedal. It was actually pretty easy. We figured out the location by lookin at waynes rig and copyin it, and figured out a new easy way to attach the pedal. check it out.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0628.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0630.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0631.JPG

Dallas

And now for today. We started some of the shock mounts yesterday, but didn't really get much past the planning stage. Today I finished off the mounting points and got the rear fox air shox on. I haven't had a chance to mess around with the oil volume or nitrogen pressure at all so they are just at whatever setting they shipped at.

Full droop
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0650.JPG

Playing with flex a little
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0653.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0654.JPG

Sitting level. Since these are just at whatever pressure they shipped at they are sitting a bit higher than the planned ride height. When its done the shock should be compressed to about where the little rubber O-ring is in this pic.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0656.JPG

And a couple pics of the mounting and overall suspension.

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0657.JPG

Holy jungle gym batman!
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0652.JPG

Dallas

am i the only one seeing red x's?

am i the only one seeing red x's?

yes. :flipoff2:

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0656.JPG

I'm still a newb dallas, so you gotta splain to me somethin. it was my understanding that shocks mounted at angles like the one pictured gave a less than desireable ride, yet this thing is supposed to be street driven :confused: please edjumacate me :D

thats weird. they work now.


looks good!!!!

I'm still a newb dallas, so you gotta splain to me somethin. it was my understanding that shocks mounted at angles like the one pictured gave a less than desireable ride, yet this thing is supposed to be street driven :confused: please edjumacate me :D


This is an area that Dallas and I discussed at length. Seems this is what Pig recommends for the Fox shox due to way the spring rate increases. We shall see how it works. We can always change the setup later if we don't like it.

Our target for these 12 inch shocks was to have 3-1/2" - 4" of shaft exposed (up travel) when at ride height. This should put us in the "ramp up" of the spring rate curve, thus giving a little better body roll control, and lots of droop. There will also be a centered limit strap that will always hold a preload to the shox.

-Wayne

I'm still a newb dallas, so you gotta splain to me somethin. it was my understanding that shocks mounted at angles like the one pictured gave a less than desireable ride, yet this thing is supposed to be street driven :confused: please edjumacate me :D


Well if they were just shocks I might say yes you're correct, but they're not. Fox Air Shox ramp WAY up in spring rate at the end of the stroke, like in the last 2-2.5" which is only a little compressed from where the ride height will be. Nice part about these things is you can adjust ride height and spring rate just by adding or subtracting oil and nitrogen. Like Wayne said, If we dont like how it works we designed the mounts to be VERY easy to change.

On a little tangent here, I know everyone says running shocks at angles reduces their effectiveness, but I have my rears at almost this much angle and they ride great. Guess it depends on the rig and the drivers preference.

Dallas

That thing is gunna ride like ass!
:shaking:

Come on Erick.. You know I hold your opinion in high regard, but we do need to work on your tact a little. Please expand, what changes would you recommend so that others (like me) can learn.

-Wayne

p.s. I was over at Rusty's last night and got the full tour of his project. Holly cow that is going to have some close fits!

p.p.s. I riding like ass a good thing or a bad thing?

That thing is gunna ride like ass!
:shaking:
this is why I posted my question, was hoping someone would be able to explain. so please...explain WHY it will ride like ass.

That thing is gunna ride like ass!
:shaking:


Would you like to enlighten me? Talking shit doesn't help anyone :flipoff2: Seriously though, i know you've been running these things for a while and would love to get some insight on whats workin for you.

Dallas

p.p.s. Is riding like ass a good thing or a bad thing?[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha You crack me up, but I suppose in today's world it's a pretty valid question.

Anyway, I guess I'd like to know a few numbers off your suspension design so we got a better idea of what's going on. Camera angles can make stuff look really bad when in reality it's fine. So tell me what the uppers and lowers are as far as distance from center of mounting plane at axle to center of mounting plane at chassi, cause in the pics they look hella short and the arch of total axle travel is insane! When the axle is at full droop it seems the pinion is not going to be pointing anywhere close to the t-case. With the upper links being that much shorter than the lowers the pinion has to be pointing down when the axle starts to drop out? How much are you planning on preloading the suspension? Just running 3-4 inches of shaft doesn't mean you're in the curve for when incremental spring rates start to increase significantly. That is dependent on oil and nitrogen levels. It seems to me that if you don't run a limiting strap on the axle then the entire rear end is gunna climp under the vehicle and roll you right over backwards. If you ran a tight limiting strap or with possibly a little bit of slack it would fix it to some extent, but not on flex. Also with the lowers it looks like from the camera angle that they go out from the axle? Course even if they are parallel you are gunna have some wicked rear flex steer upon articulation. If you can it's always good to triangulate the lowers as much as possible to overcome this. It also looks like the rear axle is crooked in relation to the vehicle? That's gunna give it a doglegged effect, but you'd be able to crab walk, in one direction anyway! haaha Running the shocks like that could possibly work but you'd have to run a lot of oil in them with little nitrogen. They ship those shocks with anywhere from 100-200 psi from Fox, depending on who you get them from. It seems to me you're relying more on oil than nitrogen for your dampening? Anyway, I'm not saying it WON'T work, but it's far from ideal for the optimal smooth ride. If all you're gunna do is mall cruise then you might be able to get those shocks dialed in enough to make it liveable but for what I do I just don't think they would cut it.
I run a limiting strap on my rear end for desert prerunning because there is no weight in the back and the rear end hikes up when going through the whoops but for rockcrawling the limiting strap isn't needed. I also run 7 inches of shaft showing in the rear for uptravel reasons when prerunning. I rode in a friends high dollar car with shocks mounted at the angle you are and his road like ass too. He had it dialed for flexing in the rocks, but for prerunning it just bottomed out on everything. With the shock travel he had it seemed stiff from the start but not stiff enough to keep it from bottom out. Having the gradual shift in dampening forces is ideal to me and lends to a softer ride. Anyway, that's just my 0.2. Slap that car together and bring it out to the hammers for some real world testing! That's really the only way to judge whether something works or not anyhoo. Well I didn't mean to come off as an ass, just calling it as I see it from the pics. When it comes to rockcrawling, tact isn't my best feature, something I should work on I suppose! hahahaha

Eric,

I imagine the first or second run will be the Hammers.

I'll let Dallas fill in the the numbers for the measurements. In the pictures the axle is not at ride height as there is not enough weight in the back of the vehicle to compress the shox in their stock setting. There will be a centered limit strap to preload the shox.

I was suggesting a more normal straight in approach for the shox, but apperantly this is what Pig told him to do. If it sucks, it will be easy to change.

I am surprised to hear that you run 7 inches exposed. Are you still running the 12 and 14 inch lengths? How much would you say you are preloading via strap? Did you end up with sway bars on the Samurai build up? You planning on sway bars on the new chassis? I ask becuase mine is next. I'm still planning on doing a rather simple parallel 3 link with a panhard.

The rear end is preloaded maybe half an inch if much at all now. I still run the 12's in the front and 14's in the rear and am planning on running those on the new buggy as well. I run a sway bar on the front and am considering running on the rear end to see what the differences will be. I could do without a sway bar, but I don't like feeling body roll when trying to go around a rather sharp turn at 50-60 mph out in the desert. I suppose I could get used to it, but with stability you don't have to get used to it. In the rocks swaybar or not it rides fine. Since I imagine you are still gunna have leaf springs in the front, you shouldn't need a sway bar if you get the shocks even half ass dialed in. With the new buggy I will not run sway bars cause the C of G is so low and the roll center is so high that the buggy should slide sideways before any body roll should occur. The center of gravity should be a couple of inches below the roll center if you can imagine. Did Rusty show you the pics of the clown car? I haven't done anything to it in a while cause of school crap but I'll get cranking on it in 2 weeks or so. What did you think of Rusty's car? The tubing might take a minute or two of forethought huh?Hahhahaha

I saw some little pictures on the back of his Camera a few weeks ago. Hard to make out much detail of you rig on a 1 inch screen. He still does not know how to download the images...

Body roll, yeah I have some of that...! I have not decided what I'm going to do about my front suspension. I tend to be leaning in the direction of doing the rear links first, and then trying things out, then doing the front later, but I might just go to town and do both at the same time.. I'm not happy with the front leafs for a number of issues.

Rusty's rig is very interesting at this point. You need to use a lot of imagination to see what it might be. I have never seen anyone go about building a rig like he is doing on this one. For those of you that might be reading this he is building his brackets first. He has his drivetrain layed out and seats mocked in on his building jig. There is no tube of any kind yet.. Just the main bits, and now some brackets. I'm eager to see how his rear suspension will work out. I'm a little concerned about the rear suspension being able to keep a good driveshaft angle through its full motion. The front end of the rig should be damn interesting! I'm not a big fan of the radiator options he is thinking about. With that said I think it should be one hell of a rig. Rusty always amazes me with his creative ideas and amazing detail on builds.

Heck, it should be interesting to see Rusty wheel a rig that actuaaly has some suspension flex. :)

Sorry about the thread hijack.

-Wayne

Thanks for the more detailed response Eric. I'll take the exact dimensions for you today when i head into the shop as I cant remember them anymore offhand. That pic does make the uppers look really short, and in reality they are around 80* of the length of the lowers. The lowers are parallel, and its possible that at the moment the axle might be a little cocked, but its probably just the pic. This isn't the last time the axle is goin in so this time I didn't bother to adjust the links any. This is my first attempt at a link suspension and i'm basically goin off of the many "how to" threads on this board and from lookin at other peoples rigs that seem to work well. I definitely appreciate any suggestions anyone has, especially those that actually have experience with these shocks in a similar vehicle.

Dallas

I rode in a friends high dollar car with shocks mounted at the angle you are and his road like ass too. He had it dialed for flexing in the rocks, but for prerunning it just bottomed out on everything. With the shock travel he had it seemed stiff from the start but not stiff enough to keep it from bottom out.


wouldn't be talking about JR's Broco now would you? I know his shocks are mounted at pretty extreme angles and have heard that his truck doesnt ride all that well.

this article states right from the get-go that it is pretty basic for the most part, (and I can't vouch for where/how the calculations were ultimately arrived at) but nevertheless, this is a good read for a general layman's (like me :D ) overview.


http://www.4x4review.com/feature/shock-genius.asp


Exerpt:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7245/angle_percent.jpghttp://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3707/shock_angle.jpg

Mounting shocks at angles reduces the overall dampening effect of the shock. Reason being; the shock’s mechanisms will travel geometrically, less of a distance than that of the suspension system. Some vehicles (early model Land Cruisers, etc.) have their rear shocks mounted at about a 30-degree inward (inward = leaning toward the differential, not forward or aft-ward) angle, while others have their shocks mounted at a 20 degree angle or so forward and/or aft ward of the rear axle (e.g. Chevy, Jeep CJ’s, etc.). There are several reasons why this might be done. First, available space… regardless, if this is something you are going to do yourself, you’ll need to increase the static pressure of shock to mimic the shocks effectiveness of it being in a perpendicular location. Secondly, you can gain more suspension articulation than would normally be limited by the overall travel of the shock absorber if it were located perpendicular to that of mounting your shocks at an angle, if you don’t have room for a taller shock absorber. The charts here show the overall estimated reduced effectiveness of a raked shock absorber. However, these numbers should only be used as a rule of thumb as other factors such as the arc of the suspension cycle can factor in.

Yep thats pretty much what my understanding of it is, though it may be a little different with these than with normal shocks because they also act as a spring in addition to doing dampening duties.

In theory If i run a bit higher Nitrogen pressure (spring rate) in the shock i should be able to get the same effective spring rate as if the shock was mounted perfectly straight up, but also get the benefit of the extra travel from the angled shocks. We'll see how it works, if it doesn't work well it'll get changed.

Dallas

Spent the last couple days makin up brake and fuel lines. Got all the rear brake lines done and got the fuel lines done and the fuel pump mounted. Should be ready to test fire the engine this weekend.

Brakes first
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0662.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0664.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0668.JPG

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0669.JPG

and the fuel lines and pump in back

http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0666.JPG

And the connections to the motor up front
http://www.stinkyfab.com/images/bugzuki/2/000_0667.JPG

Dallas

:cool2: awesome job

I love scoping out these cool build up threads :grinpimp:

but they make me feel soooo lazy :shaking:

I say keep the shocks at the extreme angle, it's not a zuk unless it rides like ass. :flipoff2: (atleast that's what i tell myself after buying rancho 5000s) Also, it looks like it's comong along real well.

OK, that does it.. You get to do the brake lines on my rig.

-Wayne

All that practice makin new lines for Cobras, hot rods and Packards paid off a little eh?

Dallas

Yeah.. Just don't tell me how much all of those little parts cost and I will be fine. :) This is one of those areas where you get nickle and dimed to death.. OK, $5 and $15'ed to death.

-Wayne

you cant go by what it looks like on jack stands what does it look like with weight on the front axle and the leafs flattened out

Since Dallas is out having a good time, I think I will beat him to the news..

We started up the egine today! Purrs like a kitten.. A huge kitten that needs a muffler attached to its ass! :evil: After charging up the battery so it actually had 12 volts and purging the fuel lines, we cranked her up and she started right up!

Damn we're good. Almost sounded as good as my Mitsubishi swap when she fired up on the first try. :flipoff2:

Dallas reports that even the intermitten wipers and heater fan function. Heck, we even get a reading on the fuel gauge from the Suzuki sender, though it is probably not accurate. Just a couple of fuel leaks on the return line.

More testing once we have more things connected like a radiator. :rolleyes:

-Wayne

Damn you Wayne. Just had to beat me to the punch.

Now I just gotta finish mounting the steering box, connect the return hose, connect the fuel evap line, fix the leaks in the fuel lines, build steering links, find and install T100 oil pan, find and install radiator, Build front clip and shock mounts, get driveshafts, and Paint and assemble the rear axle. Then I'll have to disassemble everything again to paint it. :p

Dallas

P.S. Dinner went great. :)

Damn, and I almost got to witness it. Sorry I missed it. Glad it runs good. Dallas, glad dinner went well ;)

It was nice driving home without a broken spring up my ass. :p Tell Rob thanks again for the seats!