since I can't post here is a hyperlink to it..The foremost axleshaft is the rockwell, the one behind it is a 60 shaft and joint and top is a dana 44 ....the rockwell is beefy...www.sportswritersdaily.com/ujointrockwell.jpg

yes you can post that.
http://www.sportswritersdaily.com/ujointrockwell.jpg

BTW was that your willys in 4 wheel off-road a couple of years ago? my friend has one that looks just like it, same year etc. but its just stock flat head and all.

holy shit!! that things BEEEEEEF :D

makes my d60 have a size complex

ok, what do 5-ton u-joints look like? like the ones they run in monster trucks?

look like mine :D :D :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:

Hmmm, I just dont think those are big enough:eek: When it the CTM version going to come out:D

Originally posted by TrailRunner
yes you can post that.
http://www.sportswritersdaily.com/ujointrockwell.jpg

BTW was that your willys in 4 wheel off-road a couple of years ago? my friend has one that looks just like it, same year etc. but its just stock flat head and all.

Yes if you are talking about a blue willys truck.

Last year I was at a competition when Steve's Sniper broke one of those bad boys. It sounded like a small cannon went off!

Originally posted by JR
Last year I was at a competition when Steve's Sniper broke one of those bad boys. It sounded like a small cannon went off!

I think that this pic raises an interresting question to me that I'm sure no one here is going to like me for asking.

I've heard that Gossamer, 4xVideo's new rig on 44's with Titan axles built by Avalanche, is eating those 2/5 ton u-joints alive. Now, granted . . . the guy has lots of low gearing, lots of HP and torque via a Corvette engine, and probably even a heavy right foot. And maybe the rig even weighs more than the average jeep, although I doubt it since most of his sheet metal is cut out and his front clip is fiber glass. (At least that's what I think those high-clearance front clips are made out of that the AGR rig runs.) The axles are also probably not that heavy being that they are barely Rockwells any more. (Look like Rockwell centers and shafts with d60 outers and tubes.)

Seeing as how others using d60 fronts with 44" tires, and just as much HP and torque, and maybe even more weight in the form of uncut sheet metal and lack of funds for expensive front clips and.or full sizes don't eat up smaller d60 u-joints as fast as Gossamer is reputed to be doing, could this possibly indicate a design flaw on the part of Avalanche? Like maybe they are letting the knuckles turn too far, thus binding the u-joints?

Don't get me wrong, I love Avalanche just as much as everyone else. I would probably sit around all day just looking at my rig and drooling if it was built by them. I'm just wondering if maybe I'm not the first one to think of this.

J. J.

BTW, here's a pic of Gossamer, just in case people don't know what I'm talking about. (Which I doubt.)

http://www.patooyee.alloffroad.com/104-0461_img.jpg

J. J.

Originally posted by brutus
look like mine :D :D :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:

No you have broken one's:flipoff2: :flipoff2:


Adam,

The reason is that the only thing rockwell in a titan is the dropout. From the websight " billet chromoly steering yokes for 1 1/2 ton u-joints 510 series" St they are not using 2.5 ton joints. With the weight, torque, gearing( 6.72:1 in the diff, 4:1 (?) t-case, and the tranny (? 2:1), and 44's I'm sure hes popping them left and right. I'm sure it weighs a little bit more than a normal CJ-8, but i might be wrong. With the 1.75" 40 spline 300M axle shafts I would think they could run a CTM joint.

The Titan has Dana80 front axleshafts, and a broached Detroit diff to accomodate the 40 spline axles. The 1510 series joints are not up to the task, in my opinion. He's running 1480 joints on the driveshafts, and the wheel joints need to be 6.72 times stronger than those. I have considered this at length, and i am going to stick with the regular rockwell shafts. They have a 17-series u-joint, as shown above. If the Gossamer truck is continuously eating wheel joints, not shafts, then reason stands that the Rockwell axle will be stronger overall, even though shaft dia. is smaller by 1/8" That is D80 shafts are 1-3/4", and rockwell shafts are 1-5/8". Other reasons to stick with the regular stuff are cost and availability of the shafts, rockwells are $220 a piece from Boyce equip., I don't know huch much custom avalanche shafts are. And you have to get the detoit modded to work with them. Honestly, i feel that there is no advantage to a Titan housing($10000) over a rockwell axle($2200) other than the brakes being at the wheel. Personally, i prefer pinion brakes now that i have experienced them.

Just my feelings on the issue...

garths rig(at least at the time of the JP article) was using the titan axle.The titan axle uses the rockwell centersection only. From there it is all custom with 40 spline chrome moly shafts with removable billet yokes that use 1510 series u-joints.The 1510(and I believe the 1530 and 1550) all use the same size bearing cap as the standard 1480 60 front u-joint.This would explain why he is "eating" them because the 1510 is no different than a 1480 excpet the cross is longer from cap to cap. The 1510 could actually be weaker in this scenario if you consider the following: which is easier to break in half...a stick that is one inch thick and 3 inches long or one that is 1 inch thick but 6 inches long..As for dana 80 parts.According to the magazine the titan uses F-450 outer pieces(knuckles and unit bearings).the f-450 uses a 60 F not a 80F. Personally, I have never seen or heard of a OEM 80 front.I have seen one in an article on a truck that was recently in FOUR WHEELER .But, it was a custom front 80 centersection and tubes.However, it used 60 knuckles and 60 1480 joints and 60 axleshafts.Not to mention dana 80 rear come either with a 35 spline or 37 spline axleshaft.The rockwell joint is 17 something series and physically dwarfs the 60 joint in every way possible.This would explain why people break rockwell axleshafts before the joint. In the end I would be plenty :mad2: if I paid over 10 grand for an axle that was eating ujoints..

Let me aleve some of these questions. The most important thing is yes Gossimer has broken some rear u-joints. However both of them (wich is a total of 2) broke in the rear steer with the tires fully turned under extreme load. John Cappa's comments spawned from the trip he made with us for the photo shoot where he broke one pushing the jeep for a cool shot for the mags. It was not my suggestion to put rear steer in Gossimer because of the potential of a occassional failer. Garth loves the Jeep and likes the rear steer for its novilty and mobility. The axles do not have Dana 60 tubes, they are 1/2" chromally, the shafts are 40 spline 300m, the yokes are chromally with 1510 joints. Garths Titans had some prototype yokes, wich we were testing different material for the yokes, joints and retainer clip design. In addition different seal designs. We are testing different materials for the joints. But the two joint failer that were experienced by Gossimer were due to retainer clips crushing and spreading, resulting in a misalighnment and failer. Thanks Clifton :jeep:

anyone know the spline count of unit bearing hub assemblies? say dodge d60 vs ford f-450? are these stronger in the shaft because the splines end so close to the joint?

Originally posted by mytzlflick
anyone know the spline count of unit bearing hub assemblies? say dodge d60 vs ford f-450? are these stronger in the shaft because the splines end so close to the joint?
I'm using a f450 unit brg. front, it was 30 spline as far as I can remember. It's 35 spline now, with very stout looking outers.

thats bullshit about the detroit in the rockwells not having to be broached for forty spline. The top loader does have a ring and pinion that has a solid shaft that connects to a helical gear set that drops down. This is where the differential is located. In the carrier that the helical gear is attatched to. Yes it is double reduction but the shaft slides into the detroit just like on any other axle. Think about what you are saying. If the detroit is in the first set of ring and pinion then it would be a spool if both shafts were just connected to the helical gear. either that or there would be another set of spider gears so that first set wouldn't even matter.

look at the beef in the 2.5. That helical is freaking huge.

that pic of the third member looks like a five ton, not a 2.5 ton. I might be wrong but dont the five tons have that perfectly round flange on the pinion. Hey daniel, How much do the 5 tons weigh and are the shafts in them bigger. Considering building a keiser up as a crew cab tow rig and was wanting to use them for that purpose. Let me know if you know. Thanx

I was looking at an older military 6x6 on Sat and it used standard pumpkins not toploading. What I thought was interesting was that it has oil fill lines stampted into the side of the pumpkins were for both directions, it was written right side up and upside down about 2 inchs apart. . This diff was made to be used standard or flipped.

I WAS WRONG, SORRY

:p

I almost gave up on using my Rockwells because of these massive u-joints. They are open-no seals and no grease fittings. I know they are supposed to run in a closed chamber but that didn't keep the joints from rusting the needle bearings to the caps on my shafts. After several months I found a Spicer joint that will fit nicely into the Rockwell shafts and they are double sealed on each cap and they have a grease fitting. I also made a knock out plug to be able to lube these suckers. Now I'm going to use those stupid boots around my 3 year old's neck as a bib. I'll post some pics of my shafts with the new joints in a few weeks.