After a search and 2 hours of reading I'm still lost.

The Barnstormer(78 SII , propane345, AT ,3 core rad, RS thermo) overheated in the hot Texas sun this summer at crawl speeds. So I've been reading up on taurus fans. What I figgered out was they wont fit. I have 4" between rad. and pump. Fan is 5.25". I saw one install that looked like the fan was offset to clear pump.


So what the hell am I supposed to do? Louver the hood? Put small fans on the fenders?:rolleyes: Put a fan clutch on it? Yank inner fenders?

I've got one on my rig and I've only got 3" of clearance between my radiator and pump. If you notch the shroud it should work, But you wont know if you don't try.

Aren't clutch fans supposed to run cooler than solid fans? Louvers also don't sound like a bad idea, or you could do what Doug Shailor did, which was to put a fake hood scoop off of some early muscle car on the hood. Thing is, he put it backwards and cut a big hole in the hood so that it acts like one big louver. Also, have you thought about moving the radiator forward?

I use fans off of something Mopar, not sure what just got lucky at a swap meet. They are dual fans, and straddle the water pump pulley and the mounting tabs fit against the tabs for the radiator. I don't ever get hot, but i have a 4 core US radiator too. Go to my website and check out the part number, if you figure out what they are off of let me know, I have been curious...

Mopar fans (http://www.offroadrepublic.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album06&page=2)

try the link again later, that site is experiencing some difficulty
here are the part #'s
4767180AC
83403 and
0709

Not sure about the Taurus fan but the lincoln fan kicks butt. Of course my rig is not driavable yet but the fan moves lots of air. I have a radiator out of a 1978 Bronco. and the fan from a 1990 lincoln. It should rock well. Currently trying to work out wiring issues. the low speed has a draw of around 11 amps with a start up peak of around 30 amps. the high speed runs about 33 amps and peaks around 80 amps at start up. I am using the factory relays. Just need to figure out what drives what. It won't take long after I get a rounf to the wiring.

I would think about lifting the back of the hood to stay open a little so the heat can excape there.

Ritch

I thought about propping the hood ala Veedub style. Only I'm worried about the 1/2 acre hood flopping around. Maybe muscle car hood pins w/ 2 holes drilled. One height opened, one height closed.

I know part of the problem is a flat black hood. I couldn't stand having a multi colored truck. I may paint it flat white.

Yeah, Ben I looked into moving the rad. forward, but would only gain 3/8" unless i hack the header panel.

I thinking of finding some Land Cruiser fenders and grafting the louvers onto the hood.

IMO louvers won't do much, just get a good radiator, and a strong set of electric fans. You can set them on a thermostatic switch (a low temp aftermarket one from a camaro will work) and you wouldn't even have to think about them. If you are crawling along on the trail, or stuck in traffic louvers aren't going to do anything anyways. I wish I knew what the heck those fans came off I am running, it was like they were made for a scout.

Sorry to go crazy on this fan deal, but I did some ebay "research" and found the fans I run are out of a dodge intrepid. Here is a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33602&item=2439727716

The fans sit on either side of the water pump pulley, so the distance isn't as big of a deal. I took some measurements on mine mouted to the 4 core, it is ~1.5" from the bolts holding on the water pump pulley, and the fan on the driver's side is 1/2" from the power steering pulley at the closest point. I added pics of them in the truck here (http://www.offroadrepublic.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album06&page=2)

Originally posted by TATER
I thought about propping the hood ala Veedub style. Only I'm worried about the 1/2 acre hood flopping around. Maybe muscle car hood pins w/ 2 holes drilled. One height opened, one height closed.


Just adjust the hood bumpers at the cowl, and then adjust the hood latch to match.

It's a piece of cake, and it doesn't flop around.

You can "trim" the radiator side of the Taurus fans to gain an additional 1"-1.5" of clearance!! That combined with offsetting it from the water pump pulley should give you plenty of clearance.

Build a shroud around that and you'll have no problems on the trail.

My buddy went from overheating to running about 140 Degrees on the trail. He actually had to open a hold in his shroud to let the temp come up to "optimal" temp!

This is all stuff I've been working on over the last couple weeks. I got a Ford-style Summit aluminum rad (currently at rad shop getting new necks welded on) and the Taurus dual-fan I had wouldn't fit. This is not the popular Taurus fan you all have, it is actually two separate fans. Maybe from a smaller engine or something? Anyway, I bought one of the more popular 3.8 Taurus fans and that should be here tomorrow. Hopefully it will mock up well.
I also got hood pins and drilled two holes so I could prop the hood up. I don't trust that center-nounted cable as far as I can throw it, and you know it would break sometime when the truck was in a foot of mud and I needed scuba gear to figure out some way to get my hood open. My plan is to use some extra valvesprings or something to support the hood, and add shock bushings as spacers when I want to prop the hood open.
I also have the RS t-stat and an oil cooler. After all this I will be seriously, seriously pissed if this thing ever overheats.
Darel

Originally posted by nwmud
Not sure about the Taurus fan but the lincoln fan kicks butt. Of course my rig is not driavable yet but the fan moves lots of air. I have a radiator out of a 1978 Bronco. and the fan from a 1990 lincoln. It should rock well. Currently trying to work out wiring issues. the low speed has a draw of around 11 amps with a start up peak of around 30 amps. the high speed runs about 33 amps and peaks around 80 amps at start up. I am using the factory relays. Just need to figure out what drives what. It won't take long after I get a rounf to the wiring.

I would think about lifting the back of the hood to stay open a little so the heat can excape there.

Ritch

I have grabbed both taurus and lincoln fans. I couldn't find the relay for either of them nearby in the harness. Where did you find the relay mounted? PLEASE post here when you figure out the wiring for it

Can't you just wire in a Radio Shack $3 SPST relay?

I use the big round ones out of camaros and later model GM cars, they can be found at any parts store, and conceal well in your toolbox or pockets:D I don't think you will find fans that fit a scout rad. any better than the intrepid fans.

Originally posted by ChiScouter


I have grabbed both taurus and lincoln fans. I couldn't find the relay for either of them nearby in the harness. Where did you find the relay mounted? PLEASE post here when you figure out the wiring for it

The relay does not look like a relay. It's a controller mounted near the top of the radiator. Has about 25-30 wires coming from it. I borrowed a ASE wiring and vacuum book from a friend for a 1988 lincoln and have been wroking thru it when I can. I have not seen anyone else using the factory module besides me. Everyone says, get the high power relays. That would be real easy, but I spend a lot of time searching for work. No income means you find cheap solutions.

I will include the details when it's running on my web site. I will share here too.

Ritch

why not just drop the mechanical fan and go with the taurus:confused: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/taurus/index.html

Originally posted by Darel
Can't you just wire in a Radio Shack $3 SPST relay?

You need one biggun, or two 30amp relays in parallel.

I run a 50amp breaker with two 30amp Bosch relays in parallel on my Taurus fan.

So far so good.

I don't know what the big deal about space is.. I have room to run my clutch fan, too.. with a 3-row rad.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/album02/dcp_0017.sized.jpg

:D :D

And, as I mentioned in my post on the subject.. the new 3-row, the hood propped open, gutting all of the A/C stuff from in front of the rad, and the Taurus fan on high did NOT cut it for me. Engine still ran too hot.

I may put a Taurus fan on my trail rig. I don't usually run it a WFO for hours at a time, so the cooling system may have time to "catch up" between the full throttle assaults and it won't be so bad.

Originally posted by nwmud


The relay does not look like a relay. It's a controller mounted near the top of the radiator. Has about 25-30 wires coming from it. I borrowed a ASE wiring and vacuum book from a friend for a 1988 lincoln and have been wroking thru it when I can. I have not seen anyone else using the factory module besides me. Everyone says, get the high power relays. That would be real easy, but I spend a lot of time searching for work. No income means you find cheap solutions.

I will include the details when it's running on my web site. I will share here too.

Ritch

There is no way you need 25-30 wires controlling an electric fan(s). I just got GM relays, wired in the remote, and power wire together to 12v constant, sent the output wire to the fans, then put the ground wire on a switch. By breaking the circuit in the ground end, I can either have it go to the thermostatic camaro switch in the intake manifold, to an open/off position, or straight to ground to override the thermo switch. I don't know why you would mess with doing it any other way, it seems too complicated to me. 25-30 wires means a lot more to fawk up later...I wheel in Texas in the summer, and sit through Dallas traffic, I don't even think about overheating issues anymore, this set-up kicks ass.

Originally posted by BMF Scout


There is no way you need 25-30 wires controlling an electric fan(s). I just got GM relays, wired in the remote, and power wire together to 12v constant, sent the output wire to the fans, then put the ground wire on a switch. By breaking the circuit in the ground end, I can either have it go to the thermostatic camaro switch in the intake manifold, to an open/off position, or straight to ground to override the thermo switch. I don't know why you would mess with doing it any other way, it seems too complicated to me. 25-30 wires means a lot more to fawk up later...I wheel in Texas in the summer, and sit through Dallas traffic, I don't even think about overheating issues anymore, this set-up kicks ass.

Hey newbie dipstick with all of 5 posts here. You will find a lot more acceptance if you think and ponder your posts before telling us how smart you are. He is researching a way to control the fan using the factory relay designed for the high amp startup loads that this fan draws. His time spent will be a asset to everyone who pulls a ford fan from a boneyard. Why do you think he will hook up all the wires to control the unit? If your system works for you thats great. Now STFU













.

Originally posted by Darel
This is all stuff I've been working on over the last couple weeks. I got a Ford-style Summit aluminum rad (currently at rad shop getting new necks welded on)


What's the allure of the aluminum radiator, anyhow? Are they supposed to be superior in some fashion? Cheaper?


I also got hood pins and drilled two holes so I could prop the hood up. I get my hood open. My plan is to use some extra valvesprings or something to support the hood, and add shock
Darel

I don't have any pictures, but Blair (H. in Boz) jokingly suggested I use some valvesprings on my hood pins on my racer... since I was elbows deep on the 392, I just happened to have a few old 392 valve springs lying around.

They work great, though sometimes I have to stand on the hood to push it down enough to get the pin in... but I added the valve springs in the hope of getting rid of some of the ghetto bangs and rattles.

I'm sure I have some more springs I haven't thrown out.. you can bead-blast 'em for some more :bling: if you want. :D

Originally posted by ChiScouter


Hey newbie dipstick with all of 5 posts here. You will find a lot more acceptance if you think and ponder your posts before telling us how smart you are. He is researching a way to control the fan using the factory relay designed for the high amp startup loads that this fan draws. His time spent will be a asset to everyone who pulls a ford fan from a boneyard. Why do you think he will hook up all the wires to control the unit? If your system works for you thats great. Now STFU
.

Thanks for the advice, since I just started posting here I must not know what I am talking about. I was simply trying to say that the intrepid fans fit very well, are simple to use, and move a shitload of air. If you would rather louver your hoods, or run a system that is more complicated, carry on, sorry for the annoyance. Now I have 6 posts, woo-hoo, I'm on my way to being an expert!!!

Supposedly the AL has better heat-transfer properties than brass/copper. I dunno. It was cheap, even after all the custom work it will probably wind up cheaper than an Autozone recore, so I figured I'd give it a shot. It sure as hell ain't for the weight savings. :)

I think I have a few springs lying around too...I'll let you know if I need any.

Thanks!
D

I am glad to hear your set up works for you. I wanted to make my own set up using the factory stuff. There is not a lot anyone can teach me about the way relays work. I have been in the electronic and mechanical industries for about 35 years now. I have no intention of using all the wires in the harness as many of them run equipment I don't care about or need.

I have learned many things along the way that differ from the info I had read before. For instance when using the 2 speed fan you can ran the low speed, the high speed or both. But running both will slow down the fan.

In my design I will have the capability to have the fan off when warming up the rig (in winter). I will be able to over-ride the low speed when the thermostat want the high speed to kick in and I can still turn everything off for water crossings.

I have spent a lot of time looking for the details I am playing with - now all I need is the time to get away from the other projects and job search and work on the truck. I have all the wires determined as to exactly what they do now except for 4 wires. They will play the most important part in my puzzle.

More later...

Originally posted by TATER
After a search and 2 hours of reading I'm still lost.

So what the [fish] am I supposed to do? Louver the hood? Put small fans on the fenders?:rolleyes: Put a fan clutch on it? Yank inner fenders?

My three suggestions will be (1) Louver the hood. At .$75 a louver, it'll get rid of so much heat it'll make your head spin.

(2) Ford contour V6 fans. 2-speed, pullers ~ holy moving air batman. They are also compact, I believe they are more compact than the Tarus fans...but not sure.

(3) 2 or 3 row Aluminum Radiator ~ they work as well as a 5-row standard radiator.

If these don't work, your screwed.

Why don't we start with the basics before punching holes in the hood. :flipoff2:

First off, exactly what do you have for a fan shroud and are you running an aux AT cooler?

The Barnstormer has a flex fan w/ spacer and stock shroud and stock trans cooler. I have toyed w/ the idea of an aftermarket trans cooler but as we all know one mod. leads to about 5 more mods. I'm trying to keep it simple.

Depending on the flex fan that may be your problem. Many of them do not flow anything near the volume of a HD stock fan.

Also if there is too large of a gap between the fan and shroud or the spacing is wrong your flow through the radiator will be reduced considerably.

If your engine is overheating it's likely your tranny is to. But don't worry you can get it rebuilt for only $500. :flipoff2: Myself, I would add an aux AT cooler to reduce the load on the radiator and to extend the tranny life. But that's just me.