http://www.dandcextreme.com/p32.jpg http://www.dandcextreme.com/p31.jpg

So considering that this is 30% of available flex, we just might have too much flex.:eek:

Nice!!

Looking good

Looks good......and kind of large.



What is the lift and the axles you are using???


Lets see some more pics........

Originally posted by Dingo
Looks good......and kind of large.

What is the lift and the axles you are using???


:eek: LARGE AND IN CHARGE BABY!:eek:

Dynatrac Dana60's front and rear (2" over stock width, reverse cut front), 4.56, ARBs give it a 140:1 crawl. 37x12.50x15 SuperSwamper TSL/SSR's on 15x10 Champion BeadLocks. Right now it has about 12" of lift with 16x2 Sway-a-way Coil-over-shocks. But we can make it up to 16-17" of lift with some pre-load. In the pictures, the back end has no weight (still need to install the rear bumper/skids, cell, tools, rear seat, and stuff) ~ the extra weight will settle the rear end down about 2-3 inches.

Pictures, ya...I can arrange that:
http://www.dandcextreme.com/p33.jpg http://www.dandcextreme.com/p34.jpg http://www.dandcextreme.com/p35.jpg

Looks like its ready to "Get It On!" I just wish I had the same setup. What R the coils rated at?

DAMN......that thing is GGGGGNARLY!!!!!!

Is it top heavy at all being that tall? Looks killer..........


I like the looks of your cage too......

Originally posted by Snoopy


So considering that this is 30% of available flex, we just might have too much flex.:eek:


??? how do you come up with the "30%" determination??


If thats only 30%, then if it flexed mych more, it would appear to me to become VERY unstable.... and unsafe.


Most of the rigs that I see flex to hell stuff ALLOT more, to keep the COG down.....


just curious on the 30%....................

Rear seat?? What put a tractor seat on top of the coil bracket?

Have any pics of the frt link set up?

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



??? how do you come up with the "30%" determination??


If thats only 30%, then if it flexed mych more, it would appear to me to become VERY unstable.... and unsafe.


I wonder if Scoutillac is only using 30% of his available flex?

If it flexed any more he'd have to use flexible links for his 4-link.. darn near turns the axle straight up n' down as it is!

When are you taking it to INDY? There a line there That I took that will put that up on its side! All offcamber. I took it and bicycled and ALMOST put it over. That is at least a foot higher then mine and not as wide.

Originally posted by Shadow man
When are you taking it to INDY? There a line there That I took that will put that up on its side! All offcamber. I took it and bicycled and ALMOST put it over. That is at least a foot higher then mine and not as wide.

I guess to be fair we should find out what the rig is built to do.. much like the yeller OffRoad rig. :)

What's the rig for, Snoopy? Someone must want to really play hard if they're bankrolling Dynarape axles and Sway-a-ways!

Looks like a rockcrawler to me:flipoff2: I built mine for Mud AND Rocks. Thats why I have a built up engine. But then again at Indy when I went down the waterfall I did it so fast people were running from me:D I got tired of waiting on people to get strapped so they wouldn't rollover and flew down it.:p

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
??? how do you come up with the "30%" determination??


Pulled from Arse possibly, uh I mean calculated with a slide ruler :D

Snoop when can we see the write up on the site?

So I am having a discussion with my buddy Matt (Rockslut) last night about that Gay Scout in Four Wheeler ?...The yellow one. He has always clowned me for having a Scout (jealous I think!) and it seems like there are a lot of people who clown Scouts. With the crap like that Yellow one in the Mags, it's no wonder. Why the hell can't they find Scouts like Snoop's SII? This would certainly help the creditability of Scouts and other Internationals.

Snoop---Nice looking Scout :beer: :beer:

Other than that ...:beer: :beer: for a sweet looking scout, nice flexin' action too.

How tall is it to the top?

Sorry its taken so long to answer your Qs, but I'll attempt to in one sitting.

Springs rates - Front: 150/300 Rear: 125/400. Normally you wouldn't want such a spred, but we have our reasons for these choices and I can't explain it quite yet.

Center of Gravity & vehicle hieght. The VERY top of the cage is sitting just UNDER 7 feet high. All said and done we'll be setting the ride height between 6.5-7 feet. Basically the tailgate (when open) is 43" off the ground and the floor boards are roughly 32". Again, we will be lowering it about 2-4" off that. Go ahead and measure your own Scouts. Where is your floor boards? I highly doubt that you are any lower than P3 is (FYI: P3 is the name of the blue Scout II in these pictures).

30% of its possible flex. Lets just say that during testing we get about 50" out of the rear axle alone. I know some will say thats crap or impossible, but oh well. How did I figure that "30%" measurement? I took a look at the total shock travel and what it was in the pictures. It is completely possible we will be utilizing limiting straps to keep the flex in a reasonable level. Right now P3 has what I call "Stupid Flex" completely useless, insane amounts of wheel travel ~ the kind you only see on an RTI ramp. Our limiting straps and air bumps will keep the flex usefull as well as jaw-dropping.

What is P3 for. He wants it as a personal chair lift to go SnowBoarding (yes the cage will have mounts for the board) and wants to win Top Truck Challange (entry is already sent). Other than that it'll spend some time on city streets, with his best freind in the passenger seat and his dog in the rear seat. It'll also spend time on most of our Colorado trails. Honestly, his biggest concern now is how his dog will get in.

AS far as total $$ spent. We can all say that he's got too much money in P3, but when it comes down to it ~ I think we all would have to admit that if we had the resources to do it, we'd have it. I'm not ashamed, I'd do it if I had the $$. Come on ~ wouldn't you? Total up your parts and work into your own Scouts. How much realistically do you have in your own rigs?

Last time i measure mine it sat 7'7" at top and 3' to the floor.

Well mine is 6`10' and 30 inches to floorboards. My engine sits lower and back further then an all I-H rig too. And as you know bigger tires!:flipoff2: Stability isnt an issue with mine.
I hope to hell to see him out on the trails. It would be nice to see some more Scouts out there showing how its done. Is he going to have it at the heep safari in March? As always I'll be there for the whole 9 days.

I don't have a stability problem.

Sorry, if i had that type of cash i would make a down payment on a house or land but not dump it all into my truck (maybe dump some of it but not all). And Damian that truck is still way higher than my Terra, to the bottom of my rockers is 28.5 inches.

If I had that kind of money I build me a shop.

Man. A bunch of Grinches around here. Are we all bitching because... We don't have the money?

If I owned a shop, and some dude wanted to spend a bunch of cash... you know where I'm going.

The design... Better than most, worse than some. Snoopy will be applying some of your ideas in the future I'm sure. That's why we're all here... Sharing ideas and trying not to get the good ol smackdown from Old Scout and Jdjanda :flipoff2:

Hey Josh, I have the money:flipoff2: I have the ability and the shop, and tools to which I built my own. The Money I saved by doing it myself I bought a C-5 Vette that I autox with too.

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER
And Damian that truck is still way higher than my Terra, to the bottom of my rockers is 28.5 inches.

I was talking about to the TOP of the rockers (where your feet rest on the floor). Taking apples and apples (i.e. if I take measurements at the bottom of the rockers) we are at 27.5" and we're at least 2" wider than you are.:p

Originally posted by Shadow man
Hey Josh, I have the money:flipoff2: I have the ability and the shop, and tools to which I built my own. The Money I saved by doing it myself I bought a C-5 Vette that I autox with too.

But the owner isn't a certified machinist with a lifetime of machining tools built up. He's 24 years old and used to full-size chevy's

Originally posted by Shadow man
Is he going to have it at the heep safari in March? As always I'll be there for the whole 9 days.

Are you talking about the Easter Heep Safari in Moab? I thought that is in April. But yes, he's planning on it.

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER
....but not dump it all into my truck (maybe dump some of it but not all).

So Chris, if you were to do the amount of work that you have in Terra-izer for a customer, how much would you charge for it. I'd say that you do have that amount of $$ into it, you just have it in different things.

Its all preference.

Well Snoop dog:D I very glad to see that you or someone else converted him over to the BEST off-road rigs ever! Yea, The Safari looks like it will be the last week of March. Easter is March 31st.

:flipoff2: There you go JoshC I am not bitchin thats wat I do with that kind of $$.

Originally posted by Shadow man
Hey Josh, I have the money:flipoff2: I have the ability and the shop, and tools to which I built my own. The Money I saved by doing it myself I bought a C-5 Vette that I autox with too.

Okay, so maybe i'm just jealous. I can't even afford to get a red star by my name, let alone a shop. Hell, I work for Snap-on and even with my discount can't afford the tools. :D

Originally posted by Abba
:flipoff2: There you go JoshC I am not bitchin thats wat I do with that kind of $$.

Abba... Uhm... Oh shit. I don't remember what I was going say. too much vodka tonight. :D

Funny how vodka can lead you down a path like, "where did this guy get the name Abba from?" when you were originally thinking something else.

Cheers!

Thats one mint shape Scout no rust:eek:

Originally posted by Abba
I don't have a stability problem.

Naw really, hell you got small rocks orbiting those meats of yours.

Damian, the only palce i have that type of money is buying land, tools, School and maybe be the 26 other scouts i have had (nope not there because they have payed for the selves usally with the first part i sell off of them) I have $4500.oo in my the Terra-izer and when done (other axles, tires and paint i might have $7000.00, and i built another Terra, sum what like mine for another guy and charged him $4000.00 (labor)and he supplied the parts, so i think he has $12,000 in it. And Damain he might be 2 inches wider than me now, but thats why i am going 3/4 ton full width, to be more stable with my hiegth. You can't use his age as a defense, i'am only 22, and have learned buy trial and error. If he breaks on the trail he won't even know how to fix it, unlike most of the guys on this board who build there trucks and can fix them. He Shadowman, i will be at the Easter Jeep Safari this year just like last year. See ya there.

I did not know you had to use your real name.

Why not use your real name. Its just wierd calling him Snoopy when i know him. By the way Snoopy (Damian), Project 3 looks great, keep up the good work. So whats left to do, before its out of the shop and on the road.

Originally posted by Abba
I did not know you had to use your real name.

Of course not. I just started thinking about the name Abba. Then I started thinking about the band Abba. Then I forgot what ever it was I was going to say. :beer:

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER
I have $4500.oo in my the Terra-izer and when done (other axles, tires and paint i might have $7000.00,

....he might be 2 inches wider than me now, but thats why i am going 3/4 ton full width, to be more stable with my hiegth.

That $4500 is in used/new parts! If you did the work at a shop rate, that would be one darn expensive Scout!

Full-width eh? Well ~ always gotta one-up me don't ya!:D ;)
Next year I'll go "duba-wyde" just like my mobeel home! Then we'll see whos more stable :rasta:

Originally posted by Snoopy


That $4500 is in used/new parts! If you did the work at a shop rate, that would be one darn expensive Scout!

Full-width eh? Well ~ always gotta one-up me don't ya!:D ;)
Next year I'll go "duba-wyde" just like my mobeel home! Then we'll see whos more stable :rasta:

So, what you're really trying to say is.. you have high shop rates?? :confused:

:flipoff2:

$4500.00 is in New parts or rebuilt parts (rebuilt by me). Don't fix something thats not broke works for me. And i have been planning on full width for well over a year, it's kind of hard to run those 38 TSL SX's on hummer wheels that i have had for 2 years now on stock width 5 lug scout 2 axles. Oh and i'am steping up in axle strength not just getting wider. It would all ready be done if i would stop selling my new axles to others for there scouts. So when will Project 3 be on the road, The truck does look good, i will have to check it out this weds, the last time i seen it i don't think the Coilovers on the front where on.

Originally posted by Snoopy
http://www.dandcextreme.com/p35.jpg
__________________
Lift Little, Trim lots

Hope you do alot of trimming, otherwise your signature is way off :rolleyes:
Very nice looking rig though!

Originally posted by tsm1mt
...have high shop rates?? :confused:


No, I just know that Terra-izer has more time and detail work invested in his front clip than you do in all of 'lil devil' ~ I'm just saying that if he were to charge a regular rate for doing all that work he'd have a lot more $$ in it.

Originally posted by Patrik


Hope you do alot of trimming, otherwise your signature is way off :rolleyes:
Very nice looking rig though!


Uhh...You haven't seen "HIS" Scout:eek: :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by Patrik


Hope you do alot of trimming, otherwise your signature is way off :rolleyes:
Very nice looking rig though!

No shat... DAMN that thing is TALL. If he wants to win TTC he's going to need to go to better tires than SSR's and he'll definetly need bigger than 37's. That thing is a heap of shit with a pair of pretty nice axles tied on with some nicer shocks.

As for TTC a final note... for all you scout fawkers...who would vote a fawking scout into TTC anyway...better buy your friends alot of ballots.
:D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by TexasTeadrinker


As for TTC a final note... for all you scout fawkers...who would vote a fawking scout into TTC anyway...better buy your friends alot of ballots.
:D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Yeah, almost as unlikely as a fawkin' Scout-knock-off Early Bronco making it into TTC!

How's it feel knowing you're driving around in a cheap F*rd clone of the Scout?

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by TexasTeadrinker



As for TTC a final note... for all you scout fawkers...who would vote a fawking scout into TTC anyway...better buy your friends alot of ballots.
:D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


And another thing dumbass..there has been at least one Scout (that I remember) in the TTC before already...
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Scout Dude



And another thing dumbass..there has been at least one Scout (that I remember) in the TTC before already...
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I remember that cherry red hunk of shit... That's why i said y'all need to buy your friends a bunch of ballots... he obviously did :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: Did he win? :smokin: I may drive a scout knock off... but by God I don't measure my lift in feet... a good 3" is enough to clear almost any sized tire you want... with a little trimming... you scout boys know that. Keep pushin' all that gay sheetmetal around... Scout drivers sure are a rare breed READ: :rainbow: :rainbow:

On a lighter note
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Fawkin' Blow Me:D :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Yeah, almost as unlikely as a fawkin' Scout-knock-off Early Bronco making it into TTC!

How's it feel knowing you're driving around in a cheap F*rd clone of the Scout?

:flipoff2:

There's one there almost every year... I guess the cheap F*rd shit isn't too busy hauling retarded kids around with its short bus motor to make a little friendly competition. :D :D :D

Hey Texas Teadrinker, Dans 800 would walk all over your Ford, and there was one in TTC before Dans Red one in a blue 61 owned by Anything Scout. And it sure is funny your ripping on scouts when you have a copy that says ford with weaker parts. And yes IH motors arn't the fastest but try to get a ford to last over 200,00 miles, not going to happen, IH's are reliable. Hey guys lets all join the band wagon and buy a early bronco or a Jeep, build something original.

Originally posted by TexasTeadrinker


There's one there almost every year... I guess the cheap F*rd shit isn't too busy hauling retarded kids around with its short bus motor to make a little friendly competition. :D :D :D

Yep, yer right. While the F*rd is sitting in someone else's shop getting worked on, the IHs are out there WORKING.

And when it comes time for TTC.. most Scouts are still busy workin' - gettin' us to work, or playin' on the trail, not getting waxed up for the show n' shine. :D Who has time for TTC?

and.. they used the 304 in a lot more than the short-bus!

Oh yeah.. :flipoff2: Fawkin' newbie! :flipoff2:

I think I would like to go wheenin with you. Think your BROKE DICK pos can keep up with my little old stock scout?

Midland, hmmm, the Armpit of Texas, I wouldn't expect anything different from a braided belt, pearl snap wearing ruffneck wannabe who lives in an area that should have been ceded to Eastern New Mexico in the first place.

You just stick to your old permian basin, and sand flats, and shut the fawk up!:flipoff2:

Just remember, I can out fawk ya, out fight ya, out drink ya, and out drive ya................................................ ..............If you don't believe me, load up a couple of them Odessa whores, tape up your knuckles, buy 4 cases of beer, and load up your junk,......you can e-mail me for my address:D

Originally posted by Hayraker
Midland, hmmm, the Armpit of Texas, I wouldn't expect anything different from a braided belt, pearl snap wearing ruffneck wannabe who lives in an area that should have been ceded to Eastern New Mexico in the first place.

You just stick to your old permian basin, and sand flats, and shut the fawk up!:flipoff2:

Just remember, I can out fawk ya, out fight ya, out drink ya, and out drive ya................................................ ..............If you don't believe me, load up a couple of them Odessa whores, tape up your knuckles, buy 4 cases of beer, and load up your junk,......you can e-mail me for my address:D

GAWD DAMN this is god ol' army Bull... Does it make you happier to hear I'm an Aggie too? :D :D Gawd damn Scoutaholics. Braided Belt nah... Roughneck Wannabe... yeah...I was actually a roustabout and then pumper... Pearl Snaps HELL YEAH... Odessa Whores DOUBLE HELL YEAH... taping knuckles is for pussies...but the beer is still on me. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: I've seen a few rocks... it isn't all about Monahans... as for Scouts having stronger parts I'm sure some Scouts do have stronger parts... aftermarket... just like alot my shit is... My brokedown EB is hardly a show and shine candidate, and I don't think ANYBODY's rig would run over it... but I'm not arguing it isn't bulletproof yet...Fawk i still have a D44 front and D20 tcase. Time and money solve most rig problems... but time and money only massages the monstrosity of IH sheetmetal. I can't belive you fawkers equate EB's to Heeps... fawkin' Ignorant :D :D We all drive Non-heeps... IH's all have too much metal for my taste...Hell I want to narrow my EB.

[

Oh yeah.. :flipoff2: Fawkin' newbie! :flipoff2: [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm not really a Newbie...been here for almost 4 years...just got my posts reset along with my nick when the new BB came around... I just thought it'd be fun to jack with a bunch of Binder boys today. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Bring the beer and I'll run with you & that broko, just make sure you shake off all of that west Texas dust before you get over here in God's country,

And don't worry about me having too much sheet metal, what ever partsI couldn't modify with a 5lb sledge, bodark tree(bois'darc), sawzall, or a torch doesn't seem to get in my way, and I am still taking shit off for the hell of it so when I get the new axles swapped in(sitting in the yard for the time being) and the 44"casings on it, I still won't need any lift.:beer:

I haven't been to your part of the world in about 8 or 9 years, can't say that I have missed it tho, my condolences.

Ronny

Originally posted by Hayraker
Bring the beer and I'll run with you & that broko, just make sure you shake off all of that west Texas dust before you get over here in God's country,

And don't worry about me having too much sheet metal, what ever partsI couldn't modify with a 5lb sledge, bodark tree(bois'darc), sawzall, or a torch doesn't seem to get in my way, and I am still taking shit off for the hell of it so when I get the new axles swapped in(sitting in the yard for the time being) and the 44"casings on it, I still won't need any lift.:beer:

I haven't been to your part of the world in about 8 or 9 years, can't say that I have missed it tho, my condolences.

Ronny

I love them Bois D'arc trees...where are you from? I'm certainly no native son of West Texas. Too flat here. We'll see how well that school bus motor will run... what are you doing in March? I'll be running out to Moab... it's a yearly tradition...

Originally posted by TexasTeadrinker


I love them Bois D'arc trees...where are you from? I'm certainly no native son of West Texas. Too flat here. We'll see how well that school bus motor will run... what are you doing in March? I'll be running out to Moab... it's a yearly tradition...

Northeast Tx, Red River County,
Moab: It's kind of hard for me to get that far away from the house, too many things to tend to, I have to keep my trips around 2 maybe 3 days.

You ought to try out Clayton Ok some time.

if you and jesse can get that new dodge of his together we can hit clayton in january or febuary. so get boys lets rock

It will probably have to be Feb because he's got ducks on the brain right now, I think it would be easier to put an engine in the zuk, but he has his heart set on the D-50, sick fucker:flipoff2:

ain't that right Jess

Originally posted by Hayraker


Northeast Tx, Red River County,
Moab: It's kind of hard for me to get that far away from the house, too many things to tend to, I have to keep my trips around 2 maybe 3 days.

You ought to try out Clayton Ok some time.

Would that happen to be by Honey Grove? I used to live there. Used to go deer hunting up by Telephone.

Originally posted by Shadow man


Would that happen to be by Honey Grove? I used to live there. Used to go deer hunting up by Telephone.

Yeah, that's the general area, I'm about 45 miles from Honey Grove.

Should we rename this post to:

Looking for a date in Texas

Just wondering that's all

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER
If he breaks on the trail he won't even know how to fix it, unlike most of the guys on this board who build there trucks and can fix them. He Shadowman, i will be at the Easter Jeep Safari this year just like last year. See ya there.


Just curious, how come if you didn't build it, you must not be able to fix it on or off the trail?? I gotta tell you, I didn't build my 4Runner, but I can and have fixed many things on it, on and off the trail. I am completely confident that I can fix and problem that should arise. I'm not trying to start an argument, but isn't it a bit naive that people who pay to have their trucks built can't fix them??

Originally posted by jdjanda
Should we rename this post to:

Looking for a date in Texas

Just wondering that's all

bwahahahahah:rasta:

Originally posted by J Kimmel



Just curious, how come if you didn't build it, you must not be able to fix it on or off the trail?? I gotta tell you, I didn't build my 4Runner, but I can and have fixed many things on it, on and off the trail. I am completely confident that I can fix and problem that should arise. I'm not trying to start an argument, but isn't it a bit naive that people who pay to have their trucks built can't fix them??

So do you carry the tools to take the IFS apart on the trail?

Originally posted by J Kimmel



Just curious, how come if you didn't build it, you must not be able to fix it on or off the trail?? I gotta tell you, I didn't build my 4Runner, but I can and have fixed many things on it, on and off the trail. I am completely confident that I can fix and problem that should arise. I'm not trying to start an argument, but isn't it a bit naive that people who pay to have their trucks built can't fix them??

Because the majority of people who pay to have their rigs built for 'em have to pay because they're mechanically inept.

Then when something breaks they're useless.

There are some folks that have BTDT and wanted a new rig without the hassles of building it and pay to have someone build it for 'em.

Not because they couldn't do it, but because they chose not to spend the time.

That's different.

Plus, mostly, we're all just jealous we don't have the coin to just pay someone to build our rigs for us. :flipoff2:

...but what would I do with all that spare time then?

Looks good.

Originally posted by tsm1mt

Because the majority of people who pay to have their rigs built for 'em have to pay because they're mechanically inept.


Is this "mechanically inept" person kinda like when a *person on this board* has Comer build them a 304 because they can't seem to stop blowing up their own work (over and over and over and over)?

Give me a break. A *majority* is a real lame thing to say.:rolleyes: I built a cage for a guy who is a structural engineer. He provided the data, I built it to provided spec. Perhaps there are some people that do understand, can understand, can fix, can do any/all of the work (and every other version thereof) but lack time, tools, or experience they deem needed to do a top-notch job.

Kinda like a guy who races his Scout and opts to put a chevy front axle into it so he doesn't need to turn the knuckles ~ something that he *may not be* confident in doing himself. Is turning knuckles a hard thing? Not at all ~ but many people realize that they don't have the skills (or tools or are afraid of doing it wrong and paying a dear price). So they come to a person who does.

There is nothing wrong with having a shop (or someone who knows what they are doing) do the work for you. I've seen a *few* home-built rigs ~ many/most of them work, and many of them can work much better if the person knew some of the little things that maximize the output of a particular suspension system. Then, on the other hand, *some* of them have welds that make me shutter and I wonder how they could be holding together.

When I was new at this I had a mechanic I knew help me with Lil Mule ~ and we built it at the shop he was working at. At the time I was in the infant stages of building hard-core 4x4s - I knew I didn't have the experience or tools I deemed nessasary (like a 250 amp welder) of building the rig with solid welds and such. But I knew how it worked, why it worked, and have since CAD designed a 4-link system that works 1000% better than the work we did on Lil Mule. So I'm must have been a "mechanically inept" person because I was able to make a judgment call?!?!?

Ya ~ thats the ticket.:rolleyes:

Woo-hoo, let's start the New Year off in style.. :D

Originally posted by Snoopy

Is this "mechanically inept" person kinda like when a *person on this board* has Comer build them a 304 because they can't seem to stop blowing up their own work (over and over and over and over)?


That's not really where I was going with this, but yeah, that would apply.

Of course, I didn't blow up any of my own work. I blew up two junkyard engines. I bought 'em, installed 'em, and ran 'em until they wouldn't run any more (the last motor drove onto the trailer with no rod or main bearings left.. or oil)

I had already built the 345 in my trail rig and it's holding up quite well, thank you.

Comer already had my 304 core from when I blew up the engine in Denver. It would've been a pain to ship it home to rebuild anyhow..

Race-porting of heads is a skill learned through lots of practice, which I lack.

I ported my 345 heads myself and I'm happy with 'em.

I did farm out the block milling, boring, hot-tanking, and valve grinding. I'm not interested in investing in the equipment to do it. I do have access to a valve grinding setup, but I took the easy route and had a machinist do it.

Sometimes that's the only way it'll ever get done, since I don't always have the time.

Another point to ponder.. how many trail-side repairs have you seen to an ENGINE? I don't carry spare engine parts (well, rocker arms!) like a rod or bearings or a piston in my trail toolbox..

OTOH, knowing how to service an axle-U-joint is a very important skill to have.. or a driveshaft U-joint.. or knowing how the suspension is SUPPOSED to be so you can identify when it isn't (ripped spring hanger, trashed heim, torn mount.. whatever)


Give me a break. A *majority* is a real lame thing to say.:rolleyes: I built a cage for a guy who is a structural engineer. He provided the data, I built it to provided spec. Perhaps there are some people that do understand, can understand, can fix, can do any/all of the work (and every other version thereof) but lack time, tools, or experience they deem needed to do a top-notch job.


Umm.. did you READ this?

There are some folks that have BTDT and wanted a new rig without the hassles of building it and pay to have someone build it for 'em.

Not because they couldn't do it, but because they chose not to spend the time.

That's different.


But for every one person that knows his stuff and pays someone else to save him the time / cost of the tools, there is at least a dozen folks that walk into the Jeep dealership, buy a new TJ, then take it to a 4x4 shop (or have the dealership do it) and install a lift and some Thornbirds so they can have a built 4x4.

They don't know the first thing about DRIVING it, let alone building or repairing it. But they do know how to make their payments.

These are the people I'm constantly pulling out of the ditch at the bottom of the ski hill. :D


Kinda like a guy who races his Scout and opts to put a chevy front axle into it so he doesn't need to turn the knuckles ~ something that he *may not be* confident in doing himself. Is turning knuckles a hard thing? Not at all ~ but many people realize that they don't have the skills (or tools or are afraid of doing it wrong and paying a dear price). So they come to a person who does.


I put a Chevy front end in because I couldn't find any Scout front ends! I searched every junkyard in Helena looking for a front '44 from a Scout II and they were all gone.. then I looked for a pickup/T'all front end but couldn't find any complete ones.. and the search continued until I found a Chevy front.

I didn't select it because I didn't have to turn the knuckles - I wasn't going to do that anyhow. I picked it because it was there. Getting caster was just a bonus.

At the time I lacked the tools n' skills to try my hand at turning the front end, too. That's changed.

I also had a buddy do the R&P setup for me. I lacked the tools n' skills.. but I sat there with him and helped and learned.. and then started acquiring the tools I need to do it myself. I haven't bought a press yet.. that's all I'm missin'.

It helped that he also had the carriers I needed, an assortment of shim packs, and the 10-spline yoke I ended up needing.

I just picked up my new front end. Someone else set it up for me again.. but he had the housing in Bozeman (100 miles away) and does R&P setups all the time. He had the new bearings I needed, another carrier.. and I also had him add a truss to the front end. I haven't bought a torch to bend the solid bar with yet, so I had him fab it up. He's also had experience trussing front ends for 4x4 racing for about 10 years.

I didn't get to watch or help this time..

Meanwhile I was busy readying my new shop so I can do more of this stuff at home.




There is nothing wrong with having a shop (or someone who knows what they are doing) do the work for you. I've seen a *few* home-built rigs ~ many/most of them work, and many of them can work much better if the person knew some of the little things that maximize the output of a particular suspension system. Then, on the other hand, *some* of them have welds that make me shutter and I wonder how they could be holding together.



Does "home built" for you include a stock Scout II with a bolt-on Triangle suspension lift? We're not just talking about 1/4-eliptical/ coil-over / transverse leaf buggies.. when I complain about "bought" vs. "built" rigs, I'm including bolt-ons.

There's a huge range from stock to stock w/ bolt-ons to tube-frame one-offs.


When I was new at this I had a mechanic I knew help me with Lil Mule ~ and we built it at the shop he was working at. At the time I was in the infant stages of building hard-core 4x4s - I knew I didn't have the experience or tools I deemed nessasary (like a 250 amp welder) of building the rig with solid welds and such. But I knew how it worked, why it worked, and have since CAD designed a 4-link system that works 1000% better than the work we did on Lil Mule. So I'm must have been a "mechanically inept" person because I was able to make a judgment call?!?!?

Ya ~ thats the ticket.:rolleyes:

And if something on Lil Mule broke while on the trail would you have been able to fix it enough to limp home in a reasonably safe manner? Or would you have had to rely on the expertise of everyone else on the trail with you?

I do my best to ensure I'm not a burden on everyone else I'm wheeling with. If it breaks, I want to be able to fix it or bypass it.

And maybe you WERE mechanically inept at the time.. I sure was at one point (have I even graduated beyond inept yet??).


How did it feel going from a stock Scout with minimal wheelin' experience to the 1/4-eliptical setup? I'd prefer to not make such a huge leap, get some seat time, and make it a bit more gradual progression from wet-puppy to big-dawg.

Similarly, I blew up two stock 304s before Comer built the one I'm running now. My "dogbone" racing has suffered - I was faster with the junkyard mills, and I've broken a lot more stuff since going to the Comer 304.

Why? Inexperienced driver and too much motor!

On the dogbone tracks I spend too much time spinning - even after I went to the 31x15.50 Terra tires.

In the drags I had too much torque and S-ed my soft leaf springs.

In the obstacle races I still haven't quite adjusted to the throttle response.. as a result, I got going wayy too fast in August and instead of making the final two jumps two jumps, I went too fast to land in the middle, but slowed down too much to clear the second jump. BAM. Taco'd front axle, pogo'd transfercase, busted tailhousing... but my welds on the reverse shackle held up just fine.

Now I know that if I would've just stayed in it, I would've cleared. :D
It's all about learnin'.. and that's at least half the fun.

Starting with a stock Scout and working my way up has made me a better driver. I can now take my stock Travelall places I wouldn't have tried to take my bolt-on lifted n' locked Scout II not that long ago. The T'all is wider, longer, and lower.. and open. But that hasn't stopped me from having a good time.

It'a always best to walk before running. :D

Snoopy, seems to me for forgot to read the next part.

Originally posted by tsm1mt



There are some folks that have BTDT and wanted a new rig without the hassles of building it and pay to have someone build it for 'em.

Not because they couldn't do it, but because they chose not to spend the time.

That's different.


taking things out of context, isn't we.

Anyhow. There are things that CANNOT be quantified or qualified, even in building a 4x4, hell, ESPECIALLY in building a 4x4. Do I see a problem in having a RACE motor built for you?? Nope. In that case, you need/want the best, so you take it to a fella that makes his living doing that. Do I see a problem in having a radical suspension built for you?? Nope. If you need/want the best, take it to a fella that knows what he's doing.
What I DO have a problem with is poeple w/ more $$$ then brains walking into a shop and saying "Gimme" Not only goes it piss this po' boy off that some poeple have all the dough, I've seen accidents, injuries and near-deaths because someone walked in and said "gimme" and drove out in a rig that they CANNOT operate safely. For example, a kid I knew bought a 82 chevy shortbox, 8 inches of lift, 36's, 4.56's, Outlaw 350. Real nice, well built rig. Two days later, I had to yank him out of the cab after he rolled it 3 times IN TOWN. He said "gimme" someone gave him, and he and his passenger spent 2 weeks in ICU. THAT is my problem w/ bought rigs. 90% of poeple who have the whole rig built for them have NO idea how to fix them, let alone drive them safely. There is nothing wrong w/ having a shop build something for you *PROVIDED THEY (AND YOU) KNOW WHAT THE FAWK THEY(YOU) ARE DOING*. If not, its a recipe for disaster. Personally, I feel much safer wheelin with a person who says "I built it myself" than with someone who says "I bought it myself from __________" There are exeptions each way, but by large, the homebuilder knows what he can and cannot do. The cubic dollar guy has no clue WTF is going on, and is a general menace.

Damn. me typum slow today. :(

Originally posted by lilgreenscout
Damn. me typum slow today. :(

LOL. I only PreViewed my post three or four times.. :D


Personally, I feel much safer wheelin with a person who says "I built it myself" than with someone who says "I bought it myself from __________" There are exeptions each way, but by large, the homebuilder knows what he can and cannot do. The cubic dollar guy has no clue WTF is going on, and is a general menace.

Another vote for "I built it".. I've found that since I've done more and more of my own repairs and upgrades, I think twice about doing stupid things (that doesn't mean I won't do them, just that I think about it more than once)..

I never bothered to fill my oil filters before installing them. What did I care?

Then I went through the trouble of rebuilding a 345. NOW I fill the oil filters. :D

By breaking and fixing and breaking and fixing I've learned more about the weak links in my rig. I know what it will do, and what it doesn't like to do.

Side-stepping the clutch at 3000rpm is something it doesn't like me to do. I know the result. Broken transfer case, broken driveshaft.

I also learned what happens when you slam the front end into an embankment at speed with a front-shackle suspension. Bend/crack/broke. :D

Just like someone I know learned that you really shouldn't put an SV345/T19/D20 in the back of a Ford Ranger. :D lol

Originally posted by tsm1mt
[/B]
Just like someone I know learned that you really shouldn't put an SV345/T19/D20 in the back of a Ford Ranger. :D lol [/B]

Yes, Exactly like that someone, who is older and MUCH wiser from that experiance. (After all, he bought a Scout):flipoff2:

hey,

I've had a 392 and a 345 in the back of an S-10.....

little light in the front.. but I wasn't *quite* hitting the bump stops....

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
hey,

I've had a 392 and a 345 in the back of an S-10.....

little light in the front.. but I wasn't *quite* hitting the bump stops....

345/T19/D20 just fit, front to back, in the bed..

But did you try to drive 600 miles home to South Dakota through Montana?? :D

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/david/5_14_2001/shot7.jpeg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/david/5_14_2001/shot8.jpeg

Originally posted by jdjanda


So do you carry the tools to take the IFS apart on the trail?

No, because I don't have IFS. My Runner has an 85 front end swapped in. I do however carry front and rear spare axles, birfs, etc, and fixed them all on the trail. I just think its a bit of an over-generalization to say that people who pay to have them done don't know anything about it. A friend of mine had his scout sprung over and several other things done like getting the front cut and turned, etc. He paid a shop to do it, however we've fixed it many times on the trail.

Originally posted by lilgreenscout
Snoopy, seems to me for forgot to read the next part.

...taking things out of context, isn't we.

Perhaps I did jump a little quickly. But I thought it was a pretty ignorant thing to say. The second trail ride with Lil Mule I blew a drive shaft apart, there I was with my cousin, wife, 1.5 year old son, in the heat of the summer day without a top. I got my tools and fixed it. 15 minutes later we were nearing camp. I then drove it home (2 hrs) and fixed it properly.

Did I build it? Not really. Did it break, yes. could I fix it? In 10 minutes or less.

Originally posted by J Kimmel
A friend of mine had his scout sprung over and several other things done like getting the front cut and turned, etc. He paid a shop to do it, however we've fixed it many times on the trail.

?? You have fixed the soa many times on the trail? Why? What part of the soa system broke? And, short of rewelding it, how do you fix a broken SOA on the trail?

Or, do you mean other things broke on the rig he had a shop do a SOA on for him?

Things I won't do for myself right now.

Weld anything important
Set up Ring and Pinion
Grinding and boring of engine parts
Fabricate driveshafts
Anything that involves a large press (rear axle bearings, etc)

I think most other things I can do, and I would rather do myself. But, if I had lots of money, and was confident that I already knew how to do something, I would pay someone else to do it.

For example, changing tires from one wheel to another. I can do this. But why would I want to. I'd rather pay Discount to do it. Stuff like that.

If I had enough money, I might pay someone else to do a LOT of stuff to my rig. But, I don't think I will ever be that rich. And I will always be envious of folks who are.

For the build it or get it built argument.

My BinLaw had a Jeep built. Fanciest terra flex suspension he could buy. All the tricks, winch, OBA, etc. He has been wheeling twice. Can't say for sure why. He claims he is busy.

Me, I have a lot of sweat and blood in mine. All that work and sweat pushes me to drive mine. Plus, I am proud of it, since I did it myself, and I like to show off what I have done, even though it is a far cry from what most of you can do. I am proud of my minor accomplishments in a way I would not be if I had someone else do the work. Pay someone else, and be proud of how rich you are and how well your rig is set up. Do it yourself and be proud that you are so poor, you have to do it all yourself, regardless of how good the end product is :D

Originally posted by Hooper


?? You have fixed the soa many times on the trail? Why? What part of the soa system broke? And, short of rewelding it, how do you fix a broken SOA on the trail?

Or, do you mean other things broke on the rig he had a shop do a SOA on for him?

Things I won't do for myself right now.

Weld anything important
Set up Ring and Pinion
Grinding and boring of engine parts
Fabricate driveshafts
Anything that involves a large press (rear axle bearings, etc)

I think most other things I can do, and I would rather do myself. But, if I had lots of money, and was confident that I already knew how to do something, I would pay someone else to do it.

For example, changing tires from one wheel to another. I can do this. But why would I want to. I'd rather pay Discount to do it. Stuff like that.

If I had enough money, I might pay someone else to do a LOT of stuff to my rig. But, I don't think I will ever be that rich. And I will always be envious of folks who are.

For the build it or get it built argument.

My BinLaw had a Jeep built. Fanciest terra flex suspension he could buy. All the tricks, winch, OBA, etc. He has been wheeling twice. Can't say for sure why. He claims he is busy.

Me, I have a lot of sweat and blood in mine. All that work and sweat pushes me to drive mine. Plus, I am proud of it, since I did it myself, and I like to show off what I have done, even though it is a far cry from what most of you can do. I am proud of my minor accomplishments in a way I would not be if I had someone else do the work. Pay someone else, and be proud of how rich you are and how well your rig is set up. Do it yourself and be proud that you are so poor, you have to do it all yourself, regardless of how good the end product is :D


No, nothing with the suspension has broken, I simply stated that he's had a shop do this for him, among other things. Things we've fixed have included drive shafts, u-joints, tie rod pretzled, and broken another time... Just pointing out that some people who have a rig built for them can in fact fix it.

My Gawd...when is this post going to die?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Scout Dude
My Gawd...when is this post going to die?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
I don't know!~

Originally posted by Scout Dude
My Gawd...when is this post going to die?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Stop replying to the dam post and maybe it will!!

Ya, lets all stop replying!;)

Originally posted by J Kimmel



No, nothing with the suspension has broken, I simply stated that he's had a shop do this for him, among other things. Things we've fixed have included drive shafts, u-joints, tie rod pretzled, and broken another time... Just pointing out that some people who have a rig built for them can in fact fix it.

Makes sense. And I agree. Some folks who pay to have their rig built know how to fix them if they break.

Hooper! We are trying to let this post die and you are not helping any by replying!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Scout Dude
Hooper! We are trying to let this post die and you are not helping any by replying!:flipoff2:

Ooops. Sorry. My bad.

then why doesn't Damian just delete it... boom, no more thread.. I think we are done with it anyway.





























o-ya, and :flipoff2:

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
then why doesn't Damian just delete it... boom, no more thread.. I think we are done with it anyway.

o-ya, and :flipoff2:

Especially when his mom's J**p now has those 37s on it, and the drivetrain is up for sale..

Sounds like the owner of the rig is done with this thread, too. :D