What is the best way to tell them apart?

A friend of mine has two sets of heads, he thinks one set is 304 and one is 345. He's building a 345, so we need to know which is which.


I just weighed one of his heads, including valves and springs it is 67 lbs. For fun, we weighed a 1970 Ford 460 head with valves and springs it is 64 lbs :laughing:

Flip the heads on there sides(intake side down), the 345 heads will have 345 cast into them below the exhaust posts on the bottom edge of the head, not sure on the 304's. Hope this helps

the 345 heads will have 345 cast into them below the exhaust posts on the bottom edge of the head, not sure on the 304's.

the 304 has 304 cast into it below the pedestal mounts towards the exhaust ports, leastwise thats what both pair of heads I have are like.

D.

Not all of the heads have the '304' or the '345' cast on the head. The best way to really identify the head is to get the complete casting number and look it up on the BB FAQ listing of head casting numbers...

HTH

ROS

Originally posted by RustyOldScout
BB FAQ listing of head casting numbers...


Never seen such a listing....

Originally posted by RustyOldScout
Not all of the heads have the '304' or the '345' cast on the head. The best way to really identify the head is to get the complete casting number and look it up on the BB FAQ listing of head casting numbers...

HTH

ROS

Fawk we already had a crusty OldScout, now a rusty one as well:flipoff2:














.

I'm not an IH guy, so I don't think like you guys :flipoff2:

I found the following which all look the same, but none of these have the casting numbers... WTF :confused: :confused:

http://www.binderbulletin.org/bbfaq.htm

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index

http://www.binderbulletin.org/faq/index.htm

I must apologize, the BB didn't have the list of casting numbers, but I would like you to post the casting numbers you need to identify, and I'll call one of the guys that has some of the old IH parts counter books that could identify them for you.

ROS

Here are the casting numbers from one head (the one with closed chambers):

On top ( rocker pedestal area):
089 3 432 089 c1


Under the exhaust ports:
5 23 w 9 432 089 c1


Thanks!

If it's a 304 vs 345 comparison, slap the heads down exhaust-port to the table and eyeball the intake port.

Square-shaped? 304
Rectangle? 345

Use the BB FAQ to get your valve sizes.

You can then tell a 266 from a 304 head by the valve size.

Similarly, a 345 head (which uses the same valves as a 304) vs. a 392 (which uses larger valves, and the exhaust valve has a .414" stem)

That won't tell you if it's a closed or open chamber head, of course.

The 432089-c1 head shows up as; 4-196E, V-392E W/O Imo cooling, W/ Air inj. 78 cc combustion chamber.

ROS

Originally posted by RustyOldScout
The 432089-c1 head shows up as; 4-196E, V-392E W/O Imo cooling, W/ Air inj. 78 cc combustion chamber.

ROS

I.E. late-early model 392 head. (before the switch to "Improved Cooling" on the 392's.

Don't trash them if they aren't what he is looking for. If they arn't cracked, I see many people looking/needing them on the BB.



If he DOES need 345 heads... I got a couple sets.... $50 ea, but shipping may bust the deal.

Thanks for the info guys!

I'm sure he will be happy to hear they are 392 heads and not 304... he has a few 392 engines and will have a use for them... He won't trash them.

I'm pretty sure he has another 345 that he can use the heads from, but I'll tell him about your offer. He has decided to rebuild a 392 short block instead of the 345... might as well, the parts / machine work cost is nearly the same.

Valve size and the closed chamber on those heads make us think that they are 345 heads, not 392. We cc'd them tonight, and you were right about the chamber size, we came up with 80cc +/-. Also, they do have the Air injection.


I have two more casting numbers if you guys don't mind looking them up for us.


434513-C1
This should be an improved cooling 392 about 1974 model year.
This head has open chambers (about 90cc) and the larger ~2.19" / ~1.74" valves.

and

216365-R3
This should be an old cooling 392, we have no idea what year.
This head has open chambers (90cc +) and the larger ~2.19" / ~1.74"

Has anyone ever tried using old cooling heads on an "Improved" cooling block?

Where were the water leaks? Internal? External?


We did some comparing, and it looks like the old heads would work on an improved block with a little welding on each end of the heads. Have any of you guys looked into making this work?

It looks like the problem aera is at the back of the left/driver's head and the front of the right/passenger's head. The old heads have a relief in the casting at a point where there is a water port on the new block/heads. It looks like a small weld on the heads and re-surfacing would cure this minor problem.

were in WA are you CW??


You guys have a "CCing" set-up.... hmmmm


might just want to bring down a couple sets of the 345 "closed chamber" head and compare them to the "open chamber" heads..



I've had some people tell me they make a bigg differance (large combustion chamber differance) and another guy tell me he has compared them and found little/no differance... but I don't belive him...


Your not the guy on the SNORT board with the PU for sale in Maple Valley are you???


:D

I am in Port Orchard (which is west of Tacoma). I'm not the guy with the Pick Up...

I actually don't own any IH stuff, I'm a Ford/Toyota guy mostly. My friend is an international nut, he has about 1/2 dozen scouts, a few trucks, a Travelall, and several extra parts.


My CCing setup is actually nothing more than a piece of plexi-glass with two holes drilled in it. I put a small bead of vaseline or grease around the edge of the combustion chamber and slap the plexi-glass down on it. I use two 60cc syringes to squirt in fluid until the chamber is full. I can figure out how big the chamber is by subtracting the amount of fluid left in the second syringe from the total of both syringes, which is 120cc. So for the 345 head, there was about 40cc left in the second syringe:

120 - 40 = 80cc

I can do ports too, I just use a smaller piece of plexi glass. On these IH heads, one of the rocker pedestal bolts goes into the intake port, so we will ned to stick a bolt in there to plug the hole while CCing the port.

By the way, windshield washer fluid, windex, or other window cleaner works the best, it has lower surface tension than water, so it doesn't trap air bubbles as easily.

Anyway, send me an e-mail if you want to bring some heads by.

Hmmm I think i know who you are CW.
We should wheel soon. Went out to Tahuya and did that new 5 mile trail loop. My friends Unimog rocked it all.

Hey just a holy shit moment i just finally got a set of 345 heads back from Magnafluxing them and that was after 9-10 sets, so what rusty is saying is true. Keep them if they are not cracked.

Later
Fleckster

Fleckster,
Yeah, I think you know me. I'm friends with Pat, and Matt. I've been to your shop a few times with them. My name is Chris.

Matt told me you had taken several heads to the junk yard recently due to cracks... what a pain in the ass!

We are trying to figure out which IH engine/heads combo to build for his Scout.

Pat and some others are trying to get some people together for a run in the next few weeks. My shit is broken, so I'm not sure if I will be ready or not, but we will give you a call.