Need some advice on what to use after the stroker is built.

I had my 2000 4.0L stroked out to 4.6/260 HP, 9.0:1 compression with a Comp cam, lifter, and pushrods. The '00 engine is also being changed over to a distributer (because I have all the 99 wiring and accessories like intake manifold, fuel rail, distributer, alternator, mounting brackets, etc) and it will be going into a CJ/YJ.

1. Cooling: I read that the 4.6 runs hot. I was planning on running the stock fan, water pump, and a Mopar 180 degree thermostat. There is no high flow water pump available for the '00 until next year :(.

Will I need to upgrade to a 2 core alum radiator? Don't want to spend $$ on alum rad's, but I don't even have any radiator to begin with. Are there other factory radiators (3 cores) that I can drop in it's place or am I better off investing the $ into alum. I read the whole debate about Be Cool and the Howe's Griffins. Any other gool lil' guy Alum rad shops around?

2. Fuel: Will I need to upgrade my YJ in-tank fuel pump? Run higher grade gas? 91 or 92? Can I run stock Mopar injectors?

3. Exhaust: Have headers for it...should I run a high flow cat as well? I plan on running the Spintech muffler (tiny mufflers you can tuck up anywhere with great sound).

4. Intake: Do you have to run throttle body spacer/bored out throttle body and an open air intake? I read that post Pirates had on Strokers and they did Dyno tests before and after installing the tb/tbb spacer and they made no difference on the stroker engine.

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated!!!!!

Thanks!
:beer:

1. Cooling. With your 9.0:1 Compression and a .030 over, you shouldn't have that much of a problem BUT I would get an alumninum radiator and an electric fan. You will probably have some clearance issues if you try to use the stock mechanical fan. Even with the aluminum radiator, might find that you will need to cutout some of the radiator support to provide more clearance.

2. Fuel, You can go several ways here but for trail reliability I would use an in-tank pump. This can be grafted onto the pickup from a stock cj sending unit. You will also need a fuel regulator for FI systems. This will be mounted at/near the firewall. As for the injectors, the stock ones won't work. You will need the 24# ford injectors.

3. Exhaust: you will have two O2 sensors one pre and one post cat. I don't have a cat so I can't be too helpful. Only to say the high flow has worked well for others.

4. Intake. Forget the Spacer. You might want to bore your TB out yourself or you can break weak and just buy one.

Good luck.

Who built your engine? Kit? Which pistons were used to get the 9.0:1?

I want your old 2000 stuff!!!!!!

Originally posted by ScottDeLano
1. Cooling. With your 9.0:1 Compression and a .030 over, you shouldn't have that much of a problem BUT I would get an alumninum radiator and an electric fan. You will probably have some clearance issues if you try to use the stock mechanical fan. Even with the aluminum radiator, might find that you will need to cutout some of the radiator support to provide more clearance.



Why would he magically have less clearance with the same engine block in his vehicle than he had previously? I would however run a aluminum radiator, if you do not even have one atm. They really do not cost all that much compared to a decent 3 row brass and copper radiator, but they provide better cooling.

You've invested some money on your engine why stop short at the one of the vital parts that keeps the powerplant running? Go with the aluminum, it'll run cooler protecting your mill.

here is a couple info sites

http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html

http://www.accuratepower.com/Jeep/FAQ.html

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/stroker40/

this is a decent way to open up the throttle body

http://www.jeepin.com/features/throttlebody/index.asp

Check out this shop http://www.alumrad.com/
They sell Howe aluminum radiators. I got a quote from them for a 19x26" radiator with brackets that was half the price of a be-cool. That was over a year ago, but I doubt they've changed their prices very much.

I run a 3 row GDI in my stroker and if anything, the radiator cools too well. You can pick one up at www.radiators.com. I paid around $120 shipped for mine.

Great info/advice! Thanks a ton! I forgot about the double O2 sensors, one more thing to add to the list.

I'll be using a stock YJ in-tank pump, so I will be good to go with that. What is the difference btwn the two injectors (mopar and 24# Ford's). If I use the Ford's, how will it run compared to the mopars?

Golen said I could use the stock injectors. Again, I've read some strokers do fine with stock and others have to be change over. I'll be running a 99 OBDII computer and was going to use the stock '99 fuel rail/injectors.

The engine was built by Golen Engine Service of Boston. The pistons are Speed Pro HyperEutectic.

Thanks for the referral on the alum rad's. Gonna check them out.

You have less clearance for the fan now because the crank sticks out about a 1/4" further than the stock 4.0L crank.

Originally posted by RSQJEEP
Great info/advice! Thanks a ton! I forgot about the double O2 sensors, one more thing to add to the list.

I'll be using a stock YJ in-tank pump, so I will be good to go with that. What is the difference btwn the two injectors (mopar and 24# Ford's). If I use the Ford's, how will it run compared to the mopars?

Golen said I could use the stock injectors. Again, I've read some strokers do fine with stock and others have to be change over. I'll be running a 99 OBDII computer and was going to use the stock '99 fuel rail/injectors.

The engine was built by Golen Engine Service of Boston. The pistons are Speed Pro HyperEutectic.

Thanks for the referral on the alum rad's. Gonna check them out.

You have less clearance for the fan now because the camshaft sticks out about a 1/4" further than the stock 4.0L cam.

Id throw a GDI in and then go from there, but the next thing would be an electric fan.

With that much HP, id go with 28-30 lb injectors, 00 xjs have like 23.3 lbperhr injectors, so you would actually probably be losing fuel.

Also, I consider it a minimum to get an a/f ratio whenever the af ratio is messed with beyond an intake and TB, so id pop one in there and see how its running, and go from there.

Aluminum rads are nice, but not cheap, and im cheap :D

Good info on the cam though, never knew that!

Ok First off the crank is longer not the cam the snout should be cut down on the crank so your belts run in alignment. Second 24# injectors are plenty for a 4.6L stroker 30# injectors are too rich and will wash the oil off the cylinder walls causing premature failure. Your fuel pump for a YJ will not work a 00 engine has an extra return line that you dont and you have to deal with it, the only pump I found is one from HESCO. 3 core radiator and a 180 thermostat should be good for your application and then go with a high flow pump when they come out if you still have cooling problems.

Originally posted by Tigger672
Ok First off the crank is longer not the cam the snout should be cut down on the crank so your belts run in alignment. Second 24# injectors are plenty for a 4.6L stroker 30# injectors are too rich and will wash the oil off the cylinder walls causing premature failure. Your fuel pump for a YJ will not work a 00 engine has an extra return line that you dont and you have to deal with it, the only pump I found is one from HESCO. 3 core radiator and a 180 thermostat should be good for your application and then go with a high flow pump when they come out if you still have cooling problems.

You are right...all this stuff floating around in my head and I typed the wrong word..meant crank...

Golen made me a spacer to use so the belts will still run in alignment.

Is the Hesco pump an in-tank pump or will I have to run an external?

Thanks for the help

The HESCO pump is external, and is $325 but it has all you will need for the OBDII system.

Also I kept the coil packs when I put a 00 TJ engine in my 90YJ. I had to get it wired in though, that much electrical is beyond me LOL.

Originally posted by jeepboyben


Why would he magically have less clearance with the same engine block in his vehicle than he had previously? I would however run a aluminum radiator, if you do not even have one atm. They really do not cost all that much compared to a decent 3 row brass and copper radiator, but they provide better cooling.

Do the swap and you will see what I mean.:flipoff2:



Regarding the pistons, ask the guys who built this, " How much were the pistons dished to get the CR?" The sealed power pistons do not have enough meat in the piston to dish them out to a 9.0:1 CR. I have personally verified this and confirmed this with sealed power design engineers.

As for the injectors, get the Ford 24#ers or accel 28#ers. Are yours the pencil style injector or the regular "fat" kind? Remember your running a 49psi fuel rail. You'll be flowing more with the same injectors as the 91-95 rails (which run a 39 psi).

Here are a list of stock injector sizes used in stock 4.0L (thanks, dino!)

'87-'90 #53003956 18.6lb/hr @ 39psi
'91-'93 #33007127 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
'94-'95 #53030343 21.0lb/hr @ 39psi
'96-'98 #53030778 23.2lb/hr @ 49psi
'99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi

The Ford 24# injectors are rated at 43.X psi so at 49 psi the flow rate will be higher than 24#'s.


As for the fuel pump, I suggest an intank fuel pump because the intank pump is less prone to vapor lock, exposure to elements, heat, and the like. But suit yourself. DON'T BUY THE HESCO UNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want to get an external pump, get a regular ol fuel pump for FI (MASTER #E2000). Any autoparts store should have this in stock. (nice when you're way from home.)

The main reason why I do not recommend the hesco pump is because if you put the fuel regulator at the firewall, you can monitor the psi and adjust the pressure to fine-tune your stroker A-F mixture. This will be nice to have.

Good luck, Check that CR again!

Scott

KB Sivolite pistons can be dished to 33cc so maybe the builder used those. I know last stroker I built had the KB pistons.

Using a Pre OBDII engine I could have used a standard fuel pump like mentioned but to keep it all legal the only pump I found for a 00 engine into a YJ was the HESCO unit with out a lot of problem adding it, I didn't want to drop the tank.

Originally posted by Tigger672
Your fuel pump for a YJ will not work a 00 engine has an extra return line that you dont and you have to deal with it, the only pump I found is one from HESCO.

Does it have 2 return lines?....and if so, why?

word of advice. there is no such thing as a hi flow cat. its a gimic. all it is is a gutted cat. so take your stock one and rip out all the internals and youll have a hi flow... FYI

Originally posted by rebel xj
word of advice. there is no such thing as a hi flow cat. its a gimic. all it is is a gutted cat. so take your stock one and rip out all the internals and youll have a hi flow... FYI all modern cats are honeycomb style. The old ones were pellet filled and very restrictive. So honeycomb cats were "high flow". Now that they are all honeycomb, they are all "high flow".

Originally posted by rebel xj
word of advice. there is no such thing as a hi flow cat. its a gimic. all it is is a gutted cat. so take your stock one and rip out all the internals and youll have a hi flow... FYI

Huh?

Um, high flow Cat's have smoother (usually larger) insides, and are available in a larger diameter tubing size.
They also use a nice flowing honeycomb 'brick' inside.
They flow alot better than stock (especially the pellet type stockers).

word of advice. there is no such thing as a hi flow cat. its a gimic. all it is is a gutted cat. so take your stock one and rip out all the internals and youll have a hi flow... FYI

Gutting your cat on a OBDII vehicle will set a code, that's what the O2 sensors on the backside of the cat are for. You can find O2 sims if you wish to go that route. Yes there is such a thing as a "high flow cat" Some cats (usually more expensive) will flow much better than stock ones.

Originally posted by Tigger672
KB Sivolite pistons can be dished to 33cc so maybe the builder used those. I know last stroker I built had the KB pistons.

Using a Pre OBDII engine I could have used a standard fuel pump like mentioned but to keep it all legal the only pump I found for a 00 engine into a YJ was the HESCO unit with out a lot of problem adding it, I didn't want to drop the tank.

The Silvolite piston has been about the only piston that can safely be dished to achieve a respectable CR for the 4.0L stroker.

I have not seen the hesco fuel pump. But I agree that the OBDII PCM will be looking for inputs from the fuel sending unit. What does the hesco unit do to "keep it legal" does it incorporate a fuel regulator and is it adjustable? The OBDII is want to see a variation in the fuel level or you get a code. When doing a swap (like into a CJ) this can become a tricky code to overcome. DId Hesco circumvent this code somehow?

I don't see why you should have cooling problems with that setup.

I have dished my Silvolites to 33cc (for pics go to: http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/temp/pistons/custompiston.htm), and ran the thing hard (towing & wheeling) and used it as a daily whenever necessary. Never had a problem with overheating (3 row radiator). Never had a problem at all with my 4.7L stroker ('89 XJ on 35s).

AR.

Great info! Thanks sooooo much!

Calling now for the CR.

Running the Pencil-type injectors that are: '99-'01 #04854181 22.5lb/hr @ 49psi

If I don't runt he HESCO fuel pump, what in-tank unit should I use? For the reasons you stated, I don't want to run external if I don't have to... I have no tank/fuel pump right now, so I can go to TJ/YJ/or CJ fuel pumps/tanks. Whatever works best with this engine set-up.....

Want to dump the cats. Can I bypass the code? Or should I just run with stock crap since almost all cats are the same in performance?

Thanks again for the recommendations and thanks to dino for the specs.

Originally posted by ScottDeLano

Regarding the pistons, ask the guys who built this, " How much were the pistons dished to get the CR?" The sealed power pistons do not have enough meat in the piston to dish them out to a 9.0:1 CR. I have personally verified this and confirmed this with sealed power design engineers.
Check that CR again!
Scott

Not sure who can modify a Chrysler PCM but most that modify anything in a OBDII PCM will probably charge $300+

I'm more familiar with GM units. Not all cats flow the same, if you wish to delete your cats get a O2 sim from somewhere like Jegs or Summit, it will replace the O2 sensor behind the cat so the computer will never know if the cat is there or not. The price you pay for OBDII crap.

If you dish the pistons, does it allow you to deck the block and regain proper quench while keeping the CR under 10/1?
my stroker is a 97 with stock pistons. It has been running pretty good for about 11000 miles (many hard offroad). I do have spark knock though, and I'm thinking of swapping in some dished pistons.. thats why I'm wondering if the knock is more from the quench or the C/R. I have to run premium as it is...

You said this is going in a CJ/YJ? If you mean a CJ front clip, couldn't you just use a stock style CJ V-8 Rad? I restored a ladies Jeep with an AMC 360 in it on the stock V-8 Rad. Never had overheating problems ;)

Here's one more option for you. I just bought a 3 core radiator from these guys for my TJ for $180. Nice work, and it bolted in.

1 800 248-8720

Originally posted by elusiv
If you dish the pistons, does it allow you to deck the block and regain proper quench while keeping the CR under 10/1?
my stroker is a 97 with stock pistons. It has been running pretty good for about 11000 miles (many hard offroad). I do have spark knock though, and I'm thinking of swapping in some dished pistons.. thats why I'm wondering if the knock is more from the quench or the C/R. I have to run premium as it is...

Exactly. Deck the block (0.015) and dish the pistons (20-23 cc), you'll be in good shape then. Get you ~9.2:1. That'll do it. no more knock.

I wonder if I could use a stock V-8 radiator??? I have nothing now except for the frame and engine...I'm kinda using parts from everything I have at the house and it is mostly CJ and YJ stuff with a few TJ pieces..

Spoke to the builder last night and he said they get the 9.0:1 compression from a few factors, not just dishing the pistons. Decking the block, the combustion chamber size, dish the piston, and adjusting with the head gasket thickness all will give you the desired static compression ratio. He said he would have to go measure the pistons to see exactly what they are dished to....

I hope that I don't get the knock that elusiv was talking about.

Anymore ideas on the fuel pump situation?

Thanks for the # to Radiator Hotline, 4x4 Pete!

Originally posted by RSQJEEP
I wonder if I could use a stock V-8 radiator??? I have nothing now except for the frame and engine...I'm kinda using parts from everything I have at the house and it is mostly CJ and YJ stuff with a few TJ pieces..

Spoke to the builder last night and he said they get the 9.0:1 compression from a few factors, not just dishing the pistons. Decking the block, the combustion chamber size, dish the piston, and adjusting with the head gasket thickness all will give you the desired static compression ratio. He said he would have to go measure the pistons to see exactly what they are dished to....

I hope that I don't get the knock that elusiv was talking about.

Anymore ideas on the fuel pump situation?

Thanks for the # to Radiator Hotline, 4x4 Pete!

To have the engine quench compliant, the ONLY way to decrease the CR is by dishing the pistons. Based on my calculations you should have the pistons dished to at least 24cc. You need to have your quench between .035 and .070. To run 87 octane and not have the knock that elusiv is talking about.

As for the radiator, you could use a v-8 replacement but you really should find an aluminum. It's more efficent. I bought a generic size from summit and made my own brackets. I've since found that some of the links posted here are a little cheaper so I'd say shop around.

Yeah, on the fuel pump, if you want a intank pump, you could use a replacement pump for a gm TBI system or even like the ones used in the mid-80's corvette ($75-100). Search for a couple of webpages that shows how to graft the pump to a stock CJ pickup.

Look at CJOffroad.com (http://www.cjoffroad.com) forums for info on 4.0L swaps into CJ's. Wealth of info there.

BTW, get the # of the cam they are using.

Originally posted by ScottDeLano
BTW, get the # of the cam they are using.

Here is the cam info off the spec sheet:

Comp Cams
Operation RAnge: 1400-5700 RPM
IDle Quality: Fair
Duration:
Intake- 218 degrees @ .050"
Exhaust- 226 degrees @ .050"
Lift:
Intake- 0.493"
Exhaust- 0.512"
Lobe Seperation: 111 degrees

Still waiting on the piston dish....

I AM NOT A CAM GUY!!!!!!!!!!!

But I THINK that the lift is going to be too much for stock springs. If you didn't get performance springs you might want to check on that. The crane #XXX901 is what I'm running. This has been a good cam for me. It looks like your duration is a little longer than mine and you may get lower cylinder pressures which are not bad for a stroker.

But then again, I'm not a cam guy. TOM HOUSTON, I think knows this cam stuff for strokers and hopefully will correct me on this.