I figured I would write this up after seeing Kahn and Ryan's kick ass SUA Cruisers on the board with their big ass meats!

Well as you may know, I tried to stay Spring Under Axle (SUA). I went out and bought custom Alcan springs and cut the sheet out of the sheet metal.

I did it too.....I fit 38.5's awesome! It wheeled like a monster truck and I really loved it. No complaints.

Along with this method were some downsides:
1) Highly arched springs must encounter a lot of friction to flatten out and flex
2) I had to use HUGE shackles for maximum articulation and they dragged on EVERYTHING
3) The "good" ride I had was really horrible (hindsite)
4) My caster angle was Hell and Gone and the Cruiser was having a hard time staying in the center of the road.
5) My overall wheelbase was 92" long
6) My overall width was 72". Going high without going real wide was spooky <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

Well, I was mulling over my new axles one day and I reallized one of the main reasons I had not gone Spring Over Axle (SOA for the newbies <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> )was that I could not cut and turn my knuckles at home and ALL SOA's that I had ridden in to date were tippy and bouncy as hell.

A properly designed SOA is none of the above.
1) I made the axles 62" with 14.50 tires...it is stable as HELL!!
2) I used stock springs, reversed and moved the whole spring pack forward 3 inches in the front + 55 springs in the rear = 100" wheelbase <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">
3) The SOA with flat springs is 3 inches shorter than the "monster spring under" with no clearance problems (big bumpstops)
4) I have a frame mounted shackle reversal which improves handling and approach angle.
5) Correct Caster is an amazing thing..rides better on the street now than it EVER has (even stock)
6) I crank my Rancho 9000's to the max in the rear and the bouncing associated with a SOA when fully getting it is almost completely non-existent

Disclaimer: If I was running stock axles and 12.50 tires, I would not be happy with the SOA. Too tippy! <IMG SRC="smilies/jeep1.gif" border="0">

You spring it over, you make a very good traction bar...don't screw around this is a MUST!

I just thought I would share for those of you that a poised to jump!

My traction bar:
<IMG width=500 height=353 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/P1010072.JPG">
<IMG width=500 height=336 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/CA456FGH.JPG">

well i am spring over supporter myself. my fj 62 front has not been turned. it was a straight swap from bottom to top. no added caster or knuckle turning. but on a 60 or 62 two i got away with it. it rides much better than my stock sixty. i did have two put a longer shackel on the rear to point the pinion up because i put the rear pads even, in hindsite i should have tilted them up about 5 deg. the rear drive shaft needed to be extended about 1 1/2 ins. but the front drive shaft is fine. total cost to me was zero. try to do that with any other lift. but i have access to a great fab shop at my disposal. i still have to rework my shocks and move my rear shackle mount forward to lower the rig, its a little taller than i like. but it is a climbing bitch and rides down fire roads at 30 mph plus nice and smooth. and it need a traction bar, i would bet that all soa need a traction bar. i have s springs on samurai's with 60 hp so i think any soa needs one. my 2 cents mike
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-569751-playinginmoab.jpg
yea its not a action pic. but total cost in the rig as you see it 1770 bucks.

[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: gunracer1 ]

Hey Nolen where did you get your traction bar ??

Rob

You have seen the light <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Jettech:
<STRONG>Hey Nolen where did you get your traction bar ??

Rob</STRONG>

Sunray built it. It is like a Sam's off road on steroids! <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

i love my soa!
flat springs equals nice ride and good flex!
the only drawback i found was the amount of body roll. gets a little scarry sometimes when you're trying to hang a corner faster than you should be.
i think they're worth it.
another problem i've found with major lift (4 inches plus) on a sua setup is that the springs are way stiff, causing especially the front of the frame to crack, frame rivots loosen and you have to do some major beefing up to keep the thing from ripping itself in two.
SOA BABY!!!!!
and, oh yes, AUTOS RULE!!!!
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

The SOA (and SR) that Gary did is amazing, I love it. Best mod I've done to my truck.

Morgan

I'm not concerned about road ride. and I only have 2.5 inch springs so I flex fine. the only thing that has stopped me from soa is I love how low my truck is. but in doing the 203 I had to move my case so low im dragging it everywhere so soa sounds like the easiest way to get some more drivelinge length and get that sucker badk up there. so as soon as I move into my new house I think I'm turning to the darkside. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

AMEN on everything thats been said..i have a spring over w/ stock axle and 12.5's on wheels w/ 3 5/8" backspacing=very tippy...im thinking of getting some wheels w/ 2" backspacing to help that..otherwise it's great..still need to make a traction bar...i know im forgetting something..oh yeah, like orangefj45wagon said, "AUTOS RULE!"

ohh ya I forgot something

AUTO'S SUCK <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by KAHN:
<STRONG>I'm not concerned about road ride. and I only have 2.5 inch springs so I flex fine. the only thing that has stopped me from soa is I love how low my truck is. but in doing the 203 I had to move my case so low im dragging it everywhere so soa sounds like the easiest way to get some more drivelinge length and get that sucker badk up there. so as soon as I move into my new house I think I'm turning to the darkside. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Hey Kahn, put a measuring stick to the top of your windshield to the ground....mine is only 80" tall and it is 79" wide.

SUPER stable....

I'm 77 tall and 73 wide.

I wheeled jettechs truck and hes got to be at least 7 inches taller than my truck with 64 inch axles and it felt almost as stable as mine. I had no fear taking the hardest lines I could find.

http://www.colorado4x4.org/uploads/Oct14$14.jpg


http://www.colorado4x4.org/uploads/Oct14$13.jpg

to bad I cant afford cosum dual 60's <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-28-2001: Message edited by: KAHN ]

put a measuring stick to the top of your windshield to the ground....mine is only 80" tall and it is 79" wide

I'm 82" High 81" Wide <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Almost Square <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I'm going to take a couple leaves out when I get my Wrap bar.

Rob

wow that was a pretty good guess I was only 2 inches off.

have you decided what your doin for a wrap bar yet rob??

Yeah i'm going to Den-Col and get some tube <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Those bolt on ones are like 350.00

So Nolan,
What axles are you using? Not even sure how wide stock axles are. I'm looking to SOA my FJ-55 pig early next year. <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Screwzer:
<STRONG>So Nolan,
What axles are you using? Not even sure how wide stock axles are. I'm looking to SOA my FJ-55 pig early next year. <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Stock 55 axles are 55" in the rear and 57" in the front.

I went to 62" custom axles.

Very stable.

I also used to think that SUA was pretty much the way to go. I'd seen alot of SOAs and they were way too tall (still had the stock running gear).
I used to run 36" TSLs with a 2.5" SUA and a 2" body lift. It flexed really good and worked fine for most things. The ground clearance could have been better though.

I have done a SOA now but I used blazer springs so my lift = 4". I have a 2 inch body lift in addition to the SOA. My 35s don't rub and 36s will be just the right size for now.

If I go taller (use cruiser springs) I'll be going wider.

BTW I do have more flex now than before but not a whole lot more.

my 2cents <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

Oh yah, a traction bar was needed even when I was SUA. I've got one now that looks just like yours. I used schedule 80 1.25" pipe to make mine.

SOA is the sh1t! and ill be gettin IT after christmas! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">