A friend is lending me his Lincoln 175 210 volt Mig... He mostly does aluminum stuff which is why he runs 100% argon which I figured I'd use as well. I know a lot of people use 90/10, 85/10, or 75/10 to Argon/CO2 mixes for welding mild steel. I will be welding mild steel only, no aluminum.

Projects are rockers, welded direct to the Cruiser's body, probably 1/16" thick to the sheet metal, maybe a little heavier (the truck will see mild wheeling, nothing hardcore). But the big, strong welds I need are going to be my motor mounts for the Cummins. Will the 100% argon be OK? It should be fine, right?, in fact I should have even less spatter, right? Or should I fork down for a mixed bottle. I also have a bottle of 100% CO2 filled for the kegorator, but I'm not sure if the regulator will work with it. But I've heard of people using them...

Thoughts?

I would say, go ahead and do it... for those kinds of projects, since it's not a rollcage or safety equipment. Keep in mind, it will not weld nearly as well as a 75/25 mix. Of all the mixtures for use with the MIG, the 75/25 is best.

Repost ! :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181200&

Go to OS link, not a great way to do it and it's friggin spendy to boot. You should be able to rent a bottle for cheap if you can't afford to buy one, it will pay for itself with the money you save between buying 75/25 and argon.

Yeah unfortunately right now I don't have a lot of extra $$ so I would prefer to use what I have.. I'm surprized to see that it won't work very well. So I guess my choice is to probably go ahead and use the 100% C02, I really don't care much about spatter except for maybe the body parts and I suppose I can clean those up later. I'll look into maybe renting a bottle that would be cool but I am literally down to the bare bones unfortunately. But I do need good penetration, expecially for the motor mounts as I mentioned before....

Anyone have experience renting gas, we have big suppliers like Air Gas and Prax Air locally then some smaller ones... Thoughts on it? I'll check back tomorrow or later tonight :)

Thx -

This is from Lincoln Electric's site:


Q: Does shielding gas affect the quality of the finished weld?

A: For most mild steel applications, CO2 will provide adequate shielding, but when you must have a flatter bead profile, less spatter or better wetting action, you may want to consider adding 75 to 90% argon to your CO2 shielding gas mix.

Why? Argon is essentially inert to the molten weld metal and therefore will not react with the molten weld metal. When CO2 is mixed with Argon, the reactivity of the gas is reduced and the arc becomes more stable. But, Argon is more expensive. In production welding, selecting the perfect shielding gas can be a science of its own. Attributes such as material thickness, welding position, electrode diameter, surface condition, welding procedures and others can affect results.

Common gas mixes for the home hobbyist and small fabricator would be:

100% CO2 -Lowest price, generally greatest penetration, and higher levels of spatter. Limited to short circuit and globular transfer.

75% Argon - 25% CO2 -Higher price, most commonly used by home hobbyist and light fabricator, lower levels of spatter and flatter weld bead than 100% CO2. Limited to short circuit and globular transfer.

85% Argon - 15% CO2-Higher price, most commonly used by fabricators, with a good combination of lower spatter levels and excellent penetration for heavier plate applications and with steels that have more mill scale. Can be used in short circuit, globular, pulse and spray transfer.

90% Argon - 10% CO2- Higher price, most commonly used by fabricators, with a good combination of lower spatter levels and good penetration for a wide variety of steel plate applications. Can be used in short circuit, globular, pulse and spray transfer.

TRY C-25 SHIELDING GAS (75% Argon, 25% CO2 )



Which is why I figured 100% argon would penetrate OK. But I guess I'll use the 100% C02.

Simple solution - take the argon cylinder in, welding shop gives you full cylinder of C25 and charges you the difference between the partly filled argon cylinder and the full C25. After you are done take back partly full C25 and exchange for full argon and pay difference again. Return welder and full argon cylinder to friend. If yopu have not welded much pure argon and hardwire will be a real steep learning curve. Another option is the redneck way - get another flowmeter for your co2 tank, hook both the co2 and argon with check valves into a common hose. Set argon to 15CFH, co2 at 5 CFH so you have a redneck c25 mix. Generally the higher the argon content of your sheilding gas in this application results in higher yield, tensile, CVN and elongation values.

from my limited experience the 100% co2 welds a little hotter I seem to get better pentration, Iuse it becasue most of my welding is done outside, it splatters more si the only objection, but for 15.00 fill of liquid co2 that will weld for months, vs argon mix taht is gas and barely lasts a weekend for 35.00 I will take the staight co2

As well your friends flowmeter may work with co2 - all you would have to do is change the CGA tank fitting to work with your co2 cylinder, assuming it is a non syphon tank.

while we're at it, what kind of flow are you guys using? I typically go about 20cfm and it seems to get it done.

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
from my limited experience the 100% co2 welds a little hotter I seem to get better pentration, Iuse it becasue most of my welding is done outside, it splatters more si the only objection, but for 15.00 fill of liquid co2 that will weld for months, vs argon mix taht is gas and barely lasts a weekend for 35.00 I will take the staight co2

Well duh!!

C02 burns hotter thus produces better penetration... but you deal wtih slightly more spatter too...

Oh, and how much welding are you doing for mix to only last a weekend? Or do you have a tiny winy tank?

Originally posted by gipper
while we're at it, what kind of flow are you guys using? I typically go about 20cfm and it seems to get it done.


20-25 depending on location..

In the garage you can get away with 20 probably but towards the driveway/outside 25 is good with the wind...

I pretty much keep it on 25 all the time.

90% of my welding is done in the driveway or right before the driveway (in garage) so I have to deal with wind.

OK I just went to pick up the welder and I'm pleased. I brought my bottle of CO2 with me (the kegorator canister) just in case and it does not look like it will fit the regulator. But luckily enough he has about 1/2 a tank of 100% C02 also that he didn't mention (not as good as 75/25 but OK IMO).

Funny too because another friend of mine has a fancy schmany brushed aluminum version of my kegorator bottle that cost an arm and a leg while mine was basically free. He uses it for his welder and light powertool usage (I plan to do the same thing for airing up and light on-trail usage also). So I figured mine would work too, though I'm not sure if it's a non-syphon tank either (??).

Anyways, the tank seems to look identical to the mixed gas tanks(??). What I'll probably do is do the motor mounts and weld everything into place with the C02 mix other than the pretty welds I need to make. At that point I'll evaluate the splatter situation. If it's bad then I'll leave everything in place except for where the pretty welds need to be. It's going to Jeremiah Proffitt's (http://www.proffittscruisers.com) for the paint job and those guys are amazing welders and fabricators (you all should check out his site when you get a chance, especially under the rockcrawlers section, I'm also biased I built the site :D ). So they can do the pretty welds. I've been saving up my pennies which had (still has?) plans for a Miller 175 that I hope to acquire soon. But unfortunately lost my other job about two months ago. So there went the remaining cruiser fund, I would have been long finished by now I think otherwise...

Thanks guys, appreciated...

Also it's a Lincoln 170 not a 175 so I guess it's a slightly old model, but it's still a 210. It has .030 higher quality wire in it which I think should do well. He was out of .030 tips but says he prefers .035 tips because they seem to get clogged less easily. If anyone has advice on this I'm all ears on this too.

I'm not sure of your experience with welding, so I will throw this one in. You also have the option of a flux core wire. Not as pretty as the shield gas, but it will get the job done. This may not apply for you, but I thought I would throw it in as a low buck option for a quick job. Most people don't like the spatter of this wire. I am pretty new to welding, and even I don't like it. I use a Miller 175 with 75/25 argon/co2.

Originally posted by dieselcruiserhead
He was out of .030 tips but says he prefers .035 tips because they seem to get clogged less easily. If anyone has advice on this I'm all ears on this too.

That's been my experience as well

Originally posted by D60


That's been my experience as well

If your not holding it too close, and not splattering too much the tips last a long time!!

I like .035 solid and a 0.35 tip and C25 gas(74argon/25co2)

The 125cuft cylinder was a good choice, saves alot $$ over time on fill ups.

I know personally I've never gone through one but I've never welded with anything other than 75/25. I guess with C02 it's an issue...

Here's an update, I did most of my welding except the purty stuff so far, using 100% CO2, it does penetrate well and the welds are not super flat, but it works well. It also does spatter, almost like popcorn. So, if you need a pretty weld, then it's probably not for you. But it works. I also used my grinder as well ;)

5x5" angle iron / motor mounts...

http://www.collegeinternetsolutions.com/cisautoweb/fj55/pics_dec703/co2spatter2.jpg

wow, is that flux core or what???
this is a bead i put down with .030 and 100%CO2...
http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/longarms.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1325

the amount of slag you got is not right.......:confused:

It's not flux core as far as I know, it is what you have .30 and 100% co2 also. A lot of the spatter depended on what angle the metal was at. That is the worst of the lots and lots of welding I did with it all of last week. I even have some welds that looks as nice as yours believe it or not :) But it did spatter quite a bit, it was almost like popcorn though.

you sure the polarity is correct?
and is the wire really bad quality? i have tried the cheaper stuff and while it's not that bad, i'd rather stick with the lincoln stuff...
were you between 20-25 cfh?

that is still a really abnormal amount of splatter, i have also only ever seen that kind of slag with flux core, as you can see in my pic there is none of that really white powdery stuff....

even if there were a few that looked ok, i'd double check everything as that does not seem ideal to say the least...

these are flux core welds and they look to be more like what you have....

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/mybumperandtirecarrier.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=658

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/mybumperandtirecarrier.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=661

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/mybumperandtirecarrier.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=666

note that none of the 4 pics in the links i posted have had any grinding or scraping done, so you get an idea of what a huge diff there is between flux and solid in terms of the amount of splatter and slag....

It could be cheaper stuff for all I know, it is not my welder unfortunately. I'll check tomorrow for all I know it could be fluxed core but that would be counter productive IMO with shielding gas. I did forget to turn on the gas one morning though and about 1/2" into a bead I noticed an instant difference even under the helmet. It did actually seem to penetrate decently as well and no dried or brittle welds like some other stuff I've tried without the gas. I also tested the welds with my grinder, it seemed to do a pretty decent job despite the spatter, and the welds seem to be very strong...

You're right, I do notice the difference. Tomorrow when I'm back down at the shop I'll make sure to scribble down what kind of wire it is. Maybe I am using flux core for all I know. I'm noticing some white on quite a few things I welded up...

http://www.collegeinternetsolutions.com/cisautoweb/fj55/pics_dec703/motormount3.jpg

is the wire gold or grey in appearance?
i would put money on it being flux core....grey in color....

It also behaved like .30 on 100% CO2 according to the chart, I welded up a good variety of things from thin to thick, and following the chart it behaved accordingly. I'm planning on getting a Millermatic 175 shortly with Argon/C02 and am eager to see the difference...

Originally posted by Sharp
is the wire gold or grey in appearance?
i would put money on it being flux core....grey in color....

Gold in appearance. Can you explain more about the polarity being switched? What if, for example, the positive feeds were switched around. Whoever wired the garage (not a professional) did a funky job. Also, the welder is a Lincoln 170, that was at the end of a 20 ft extension cord. Could this affect it?

no when i made ref to the polarity i ment on the welder, when you use solid wire the polarity is opposite to when it's flux core, this can be changed in same compartment where the wire spool would be, i have gone back and forth on occation with diff wire and forgot to switch polarity and the welds are just gross...and there is lots of splatter
i don't really know what the prob is if the wire looks like solid...
worth a try tho...

Another thing, for some reason I though CO2 was supposed to spatter a lot, which is why I thought it was OK. Those welds you made actually look fairly pretty with no spatter?

splatter alot if compared to C25 mix, but there is no comparison between solid and flux...
here are more of my pics of .030 with 100% CO2...
just to give you an idea, and they are ok, but by no means great welds...

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/customfrontbumperwinchplate.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1277

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/customfrontbumperwinchplate.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1276

http://groups.msn.com/TheMINIHummer/customfrontbumperwinchplate.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1281

again no cleaning or scraping done...


and with ref to splatter, the amount you have was the reason i thought you have a polarity issue... thats too much splatter!

I'll check that as well, I did notice the location where you switch it up. I briefly looked it over to make sure I shouldn't switch it over, and it looked correct though I didn't give it much thought, again, as this is the owner's setup, but I'll double check it. How should it be set up?

Also, would having the polarity reversed affect the strength of the welds?

there should be a diagram in there as to how it should be set depending on the process, check it switch it and see what the result is, if it is incorrect, i'd be worried about the weld strength...

Originally posted by dieselcruiserhead
Also, would having the polarity reversed affect the strength of the welds?

Yes... if backwards your welds won't penetrate...

I've done it.. stuff broke apart when knocked off the welding table!!!! took me a while to figure out the polarity issue

I'f I didn't have 75/25, I'd stick with flux core... I've had excellent results with it and the spatter isn't nearly as bad now that I'm better controlling the wire stickout... Another nice thing is the "anti-spatter" spray. Smells like pam non-stick spray (hell it probably is), but it keeps the spatter from sticking!! :D

I did check the diagram but like I said briefly. It looked ok, another thing is even some of the tacks I had were super strong, start hammering and hammering away and even 2 or 3 tacks would hold it together. Also this is my first welder but I have done some fabrication before and worked at a 4WD shop for three months (not as a mechanic) but worked under the supervision of some pretty good fabricators. I know how to spot a good weld and one that won't hold, also, the guy who owns the welder seems to know his stuff too and he also used the same setup. So, I'm leaning towards the regulator not being adjusted right, which I also hate to say could also be very likely. Honestly I don't think I looked at that either I hate to say :(

well let me know what the prob was, i'm curious, i guess it's possible that you have a lack of CO2 but i have seen welds with the gas off and they are full of porosity and are really brittle....

And I also did some welding w/o the gas and know exactly what you are talking about. The gas made a noticable difference, and as I said the penetration was excellent, I am positive of this. I'm still standing by the too much or too little C02... :)

OK went down and check it out. I'm still a little confused. Wiring? - definetely setup right for Mig, not flux core. C02, a little high (28 cfm), turned it down to 22, still spattered a little bit I did get a decent bead without much spatter. But, regardless it is still spattering...

So I'm out of ideas. Still doing good welds, just spattering... Could it be the .035 tips with .030 wire? Also the wire was genuine Lincoln wire... Again, used with the 170 (a 230, smallest one they made I think)...

When I get the photos off my camera I got some good shots for you all, some of them kinda funnay :)

hmmm:confused:

prob must just be the guy behind the mask :p :flipoff2: