Was wandering what pinion angle you guys are running on your lifted scouts. I know you don't use a stock d44 on your IH because of the severe strain on the ujoint. Do you use chevy,IH or ford D44's and at what pinion angle are they?

Originally posted by Brawler
Was wandering what pinion angle you guys are running on your lifted scouts. I know you don't use a stock d44 on your IH because of the severe strain on the ujoint. Do you use chevy,IH or ford D44's and at what pinion angle are they?

On my trail rig, I run the stock ~0-deg pinion angle on the stock '44s front/rear..

Yes, it eats U-joints and transmission mounts and if I forget to take the zerk fittings out it'll snap the zerks right off the U-joints..

:D

Racer runs a Chevy front with the pinion tipped *down* thanks to the RS..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/1_22_2001/12.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/1_22_2001/11.jpg

OK, I'm a little confused... whats wrong with a stock D44??? they are the same as the GM/IH/Dodge ones (course, many fords are HP).


That said: in the rear, you can run the "equal but opposite" or 0º reletive pinion angle for a good deal of lift, 5-6" or more, no problem, then you may want to think of pointing the pinion ot the t-case yoke and running a CV shaft.

On the front, 4" is about max unless you have moved the t-case/motor. After 4", CV starts looking good as well.

You can run the front pointed at the t-case without a CV, you WILL get vibs, but it in the front, and you *usually* only use it at slow, trail speeds, so you *can* live with it.

Now my next front will be a custom Ford HP D44, the plan is to avoid a CV (more things to go wrong) and get the d-shafts out of the rocks.....

Holy shit balls! It looks like you have some serious breakage issues. For rustoleum, look at the above pic. That's what is wrong. No, chevy/gm does not have the same angle. Wide trac cherokees have a higher pinion angle also.


Originally posted by tsm1mt


On my trail rig, I run the stock ~0-deg pinion angle on the stock '44s front/rear..

Yes, it eats U-joints and transmission mounts and if I forget to take the zerk fittings out it'll snap the zerks right off the U-joints..

:D

Racer runs a Chevy front with the pinion tipped *down* thanks to the RS..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/1_22_2001/12.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/1_22_2001/11.jpg

Point the pinion at the T-case and call it good, piss on the CV:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Brawler
Holy shit balls! It looks like you have some serious breakage issues. For rustoleum, look at the above pic. That's what is wrong. No, chevy/gm does not have the same angle. Wide trac cherokees have a higher pinion angle also.


Note that the front end in the pic IS A CHEVY. 1974 Chevy 1/2T front end which has caster.. when I did the RS, I wanted "no" lift and it tipped the pinion down..

I haven't broken a front U-joint yet... and this rig sees 70+mph in 4-hi... and has 100 yard times of 7s (which is a lot slower than I think it should be doing.. partly because of the 2bbl carb and I'm still working out the right "gearing" - 31s are too small, 35s are too big for 100 yards..)

Tho' I *DO* have some "serious breakage issues".. just not from the pinion angle! :flipoff2:

Mostly it's the loose nut behind the wheel and a heavy right foot..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/8_29_2001/dcp_0002s.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/11_11_2001/closeup_broken.jpg

If Ted Ornas had intended Scouts to fly, he might've made 'em a little lighter..

Reminds me.. I need to call and see how my new trussed Chevy '44 front end is doing.. 2 months to the next race.

Originally posted by Scoutillac
Point the pinion at the T-case and call it good, piss on the CV:flipoff2: I agree, works for me...
http://www.ite.mh.se/~patost/ih/ihpics2/FrontPinion.JPG

Rear stays equal and opposite

Front gets pointed at t-case. Vibration is not a big issue. Mine vibrates between 20 and 25, then smooths out. I am rarely in 4wd at those speeds.

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/Images-Technical/FrontJointAngle.jpg

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/Images-Technical/NegativeArch.jpg

Originally posted by Brawler
Holy shit balls! It looks like you have some serious breakage issues. For rustoleum, look at the above pic. That's what is wrong. No, chevy/gm does not have the same angle. Wide trac cherokees have a higher pinion angle also.




Brawler,

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=191170


Pinion angle has jack shit to do with what vehicle the housing was originally out of. If you don't like the pinion angle of a housing, hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it, or use some shims.

Originally posted by Ben W


Pinion angle has jack shit to do with what vehicle the housing was originally out of. If you don't like the pinion angle of a housing, hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it, or use some shims.

I'll look and see if I have any pics of that SAME GM front end installed in the Scout with the stock shackle setup to show how just a reverse shackle can raise / lower the pinion angle.. just to make Ben's point crystal clear..

As it sits, I should do something about it.. and I am.

The RS "towers" are too short and I'm using the pitman arm/draglink as a bump stop.. so I'll cut off the front mounts and drop 'em down a bit.

Then the spring will be closer to level, making the pinion angle less down pointin'.. AND keeping me from hitting the steering box when I land. :D

Originally posted by Ben W
If you don't like the pinion angle of a housing, hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it, or use some shims. When it comes to the front axle, you will get a even worse caster angle then stock, if you don't cut and turn the knuckles at the same time....

Hey fag boy,lay off the insults. Honest question expecting honest answer. If you have to be a prick in your response...Don't respond. If you point the pinion at the t-case it will dramaticlly change the already shitty caster. Obviously the two go hand in hand. My question was what angle and does it matter?






Originally posted by Ben W


Brawler,

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=191170


Pinion angle has jack shit to do with what vehicle the housing was originally out of. If you don't like the pinion angle of a housing, hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it, or use some shims.

Originally posted by Brawler
Hey fag boy,lay off the insults. Honest question expecting honest answer. If you have to be a prick in your response...Don't respond. If you point the pinion at the t-case it will dramaticlly change the already shitty caster. Obviously the two go hand in hand. My question was what angle and does it matter?


I cut and turned my knuckles for caster and shimmed my perches for pinion angle. I used 7 degree shims, but you can see from the picture that I still have a slight jog in my pinion/driveline. I think I would go with 8 degree shims for mine.

However, since every spring is different, won't you need to determine that for your specific rig?

I turned my knuckles 13 degrees, so when I shimmed the pinion up 7 degrees, I ended up with 6 degrees caster. I have been told that from 4-6 degrees caster is about right, and it does not make a whole lot of difference whether it is 4, 5 or 6. So, turning knuckles 13 degrees, then shimming 7 or 8, or whatever you need, should be about right. But, every spring is different, so how much you need is emprical.

Originally posted by Brawler
Hey fag boy,lay off the insults. Honest question expecting honest answer. If you have to be a prick in your response...Don't respond. If you point the pinion at the t-case it will dramaticlly change the already shitty caster. Obviously the two go hand in hand. My question was what angle and does it matter?



unknot your panties. If you asked about caster in the first place you wouldn't have gotten the response you did. I didn't see you mention caster anywhere in your previous posts. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Brawler
Hey fag boy,lay off the insults. Honest question expecting honest answer. If you have to be a prick in your response...Don't respond. If you point the pinion at the t-case it will dramaticlly change the already shitty caster. Obviously the two go hand in hand. My question was what angle and does it matter?:nuke: It seems like you're talking to me since it was I who metioned the caster in my reply to Ben W, allthough you're quoting Ben W... If it wasn't me you were talking to, then you don't have to read no more (I would like some answer though), otherwhise:

I Allready told you that I pointed my inion to the T-case. I just added the reminder about the caster since since Ben W wrote that all that had to be done was to "hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it".

Originally posted by Patrik
:nuke: It seems like you're talking to me since it was I who metioned the caster in my reply to Ben W, allthough you're quoting Ben W... If it wasn't me you were talking to, then you don't have to read no more (I would like some answer though), otherwhise:

I Allready told you that I pointed my inion to the T-case. I just added the reminder about the caster since since Ben W wrote that all that had to be done was to "hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it".

I think he is ticked off at me because he didn't see the humor in the picture I posted. :D

Yes, you are absolutely right, you will have to address the caster issue after setting your spring pads and pinion angle.

Originally posted by Patrik
:nuke: It seems like you're talking to me since it was I who metioned the caster in my reply to Ben W, allthough you're quoting Ben W... If it wasn't me you were talking to, then you don't have to read no more (I would like some answer though), otherwhise:

I Allready told you that I pointed my inion to the T-case. I just added the reminder about the caster since since Ben W wrote that all that had to be done was to "hack the spring pads off and reweld where you want it".

Do you get any vibration in 4wd? Some people do, some don't. I do, through a narrow speed band, then it goes away.

Just curious.

Originally posted by Ben W
I think he is ticked off at me because he didn't see the humor in the picture I posted. :D

Yes, you are absolutely right, you will have to address the caster issue after setting your spring pads and pinion angle. Thanks for the support ;)

Originally posted by Hooper
Do you get any vibration in 4wd? Some people do, some don't. I do, through a narrow speed band, then it goes away.

Just curious. Yes I do, but it ain't that bad. What is worse is that I have gotten some whining noise in 4WD lately. Don't even know if it's the t-case or the axle yet, I'll try to find out though...

PS. Now it's strating to get late, Hooper ;) D.S.

Originally posted by Patrik
Yes I do, but it ain't that bad. What is worse is that I have gotten some whining noise in 4WD lately. Don't even know if it's the t-case or the axle yet, I'll try to find out though...

PS. Now it's strating to get late, Hooper ;) D.S.


Yeah it is. Past someone's bedtime!! :)

Any chance that vibration (felt or unfelt) from the unequal and unopposite (not a word I know, but it works) has caused premature failure of t-case output shaft bearings? Have you tried wiggling your t-case output to see if there is any slack in there?

Originally posted by Hooper
Any chance that vibration (felt or unfelt) from the unequal and unopposite (not a word I know, but it works) has caused premature failure of t-case output shaft bearings? Have you tried wiggling your t-case output to see if there is any slack in there? It hasn't seen that much high speed 4WD, mostly trails, but I guess that a bearing can brake anyhow. I'll try the wiggling next time I'm under there...

Originally posted by Hooper



Yeah it is. Past someone's bedtime!! :)

Any chance that vibration (felt or unfelt) from the unequal and unopposite (not a word I know, but it works) has caused premature failure of t-case output shaft bearings? Have you tried wiggling your t-case output to see if there is any slack in there?

I bet it has! Same reason why, just before RMIHR 2 years ago, I replaced my slightly dented driveshaft. *I* didn't feel any vibrations, but it was visible dented (darn rock), and I figured with my luck somewhere right between nowhere and really nowhere a bearing would get tired of the vibrations.

Either the pinion or t'case.. neither of which I wanted to deal with far far from home.. while doing highway speeds. :D