everyone of those locking techniques has pros and cons(so i'm told). the welded diff is free, always works but turns like sh_t. the lockrite is cheap, turns better than welded(but i dont understand that cause as you turn it puts a bind on the locker and dosen't let it ratchet for turning) but uses the stock center pin to turn both tires and can ratchet when a front steering joint lets go and snap the axle off in the carrier(seen that one more than once). the arb is the ultimate but it costs alot(for me anyways) and from what i understand dosen't unlock if your already turned or bound up(the main reason for having a selectable locker). am i mislead or are these pros and cons true.:confused:

Sounds about right.

I'll still choose selectible anyday. That way I KNOW WHEN it's engaged and WHEN IT'S NOT.

Don't forget OX, an electric option like using a modifed Toy locker and possibly TracTec's electric locker which is in it's second year of vaporwaredom.

I have an auto locker they work ok but (at least mine is) can be quirky and I don't like the unknown of am I locked or am I not.

If I didn't go selectible, I'd look into the spool. I would however like to drive a spooled front just to see how bad it is. I think with manaul hubs you might have some "give" and still be driveable.

I personally think automatic lockers such as a detroit or lockright are best up front. I have a lockright(:flipoff: powertrax) cuz I got a deal on it. It turns great. Sometimes it won't unlock down hill. No big deal. You never have to worry about em... they just work. I don't even notice mine most the time.

My experience with ARB's up front, is watching people constantly Fawk with em. Ohhhh I can't turn pssst. Ohhh I'm stuck....psst. Hey this coool....pssst, psst,pssst, pssst. I think ARB's are great for the rear if you just lock em in and leave it while your offroad. I plan on getting one when I can finally afford to build my 60. Only reason is to help save on tires.

Welded up front isn't really that bad. If I couldn't afford a locker, I'd weld in a heartbeat. Most the oldtimers around here run welded front and rear. Depending the type of wheelin you do, you probably won't notice it most the time.

That's my .02

Originally posted by Belly Dragger

I have an auto locker they work ok but (at least mine is) can be quirky and I don't like the unknown of am I locked or am I not.


What kind of locker do you have? I've never seen a detroit that didn't work, unless it was broke.

If the couplers on a lockright are wornout, or if it's not properly setup, it may not work right, otherwise they always work.

I'm going to a Powr lock I like em. got one in the rear and love it

Have u thourght about a LSD up front? They would be sweet around town and and on corners even in the mud and as soon as u start wheel spinning it'll bring the other one in.

I have a real tight LSD in the back of my kruzah (so tight it cherps on the road with 35's). And i have a lincon locker in the front. (the rear would b a lincon too but the law here wont alou it.

Steering bets pritty heavy when the hubs r locked and the other down side is when driving along a slope, But then i guess u can just get out and unlock a hub, the lowest front wheel and it would act just like an open diff but in pernient 3 wheel drive.

Well welded there as good as a spool an cheaper but there is no going back or changing gears so it can be considered as rooting a diff.

Originally posted by SwampDonkey_jr
Have u thourght about a LSD up front? They would be sweet around town and and on corners even in the mud and as soon as u start wheel spinning it'll bring the other one in.

I have a real tight LSD in the back of my kruzah (so tight it cherps on the road with 35's). And i have a lincon locker in the front. (the rear would b a lincon too but the law here wont alou it.

Steering bets pritty heavy when the hubs r locked and the other down side is when driving along a slope, But then i guess u can just get out and unlock a hub, the lowest front wheel and it would act just like an open diff but in pernient 3 wheel drive.

Well welded there as good as a spool an cheaper but there is no going back or changing gears so it can be considered as rooting a diff.

What do you mean there is no changing gears? All you do is weld the spider gears together, and some people weld the spiders to the carrier. It does not effect the ring and pinion gears at all. As long as the gears fit the carrier split, you can change the gears as long as you set the gears up. Literally, the only thing you "ruin" is a cheap open carrier and the spider gears. I am curious, why won't the law allow a welded dif where you live? How would they even know? If it is the chirping of the tires, you already have that with your limited slip...

Originally posted by Nobody
What kind of locker do you have? I've never seen a detroit that didn't work, unless it was broke.Powertrax.

When it comes to driving in adverse road conditions, you always need to drive with care.
If you’re too heavy on the pedal your going to break traction in the rear and spin no matter what you have in your differential.
When you LOCK your differential, you increase the touchiness of the throttle to break-loose factor.

The advantage that I have found with a welded diff has a CONSANT FEEL to it.
If you feel yourself starting to kick out, just slow down, and turn into the spin.
A few practice spinouts in a parking lot, and you’ll get a hang of it.

With an auto-engaging locker this feel can change on you in a second, and be the one thing that gets you spinning 360s down you favorite highway…

With a selectable locker you can insure that is it either 100% on or 100% off. These are great but are not cheep.

Your only option is open (free), welded (almost free), selectable locker ($$$)
Because there is such a big difference between the price for welded vs selectable, you find a lot of people going with a welded diff.

You have to ascertain if the price of the selectable locker is worth the extra traction you get on road in these conditions???

Unless you have a newer truck that you are going to keep for a while, and money is not so much of an issue, the selectable locker might be a viable option.
If you have a 16 year old Toyota that like to ride hard, it may not

SHOULD HAVE PROBABLY TOLD YOU THAT I'M ALREADY WELDED UP IN THE REAR, OPEN IN FRONT AND ALL I DO IS ROCKS. I'M GOING TO MODIFY MY PS PUMP THIS WEEK END SO I CAN GO HYDRALIC ASSIST, SO I DONT THINK TURNING IT WILL BE AN ISSUE.:D

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
SHOULD HAVE PROBABLY TOLD YOU THAT I'M ALREADY WELDED UP IN THE REAR, OPEN IN FRONT AND ALL I DO IS ROCKS. I'M GOING TO MODIFY MY PS PUMP THIS WEEK END SO I CAN GO HYDRALIC ASSIST, SO I DONT THINK TURNING IT WILL BE AN ISSUE.:D

For what it's worth, the "turning issue" is not just with fighting the wheel. It's the inside wheel being forced to turn at the same rate as the outer wheel. That causes it to "push through" and results in significant under-steer. With a front spool (or auto-locker) and the wheels turned all the way to lock, your turning radius will be larger than it would be with an open or LS front. With the front locker/spool it is sometimes necessary to unlock a hub to make a turn. With an auto-locker and a dual-stick case, you can disengage the front (which lets the auto-locker disengage) to make some turns. I have a DL in the front an I plan on dual-sticking my 205 for that very reason.

therefore having to back up and TURN the wheels back the other way then TURN the wheel again to make my turn. i'm not going limited slip or open so i will have a shitty turning radius anyway and cant afford an ARB. if theres no difference off road on rocks then i'm going to weld it! why spend the money for nothing?

So bad dog, what you are saying is that if you have an automatic locker then you can disengage the Tcase and the locker will disengage but if you have welded or spool then shifting your tcase doesn't effect it? Is this right?
joe

If you have both hubs locked in and disengage the front axle, it still will turn kinda hard. I usually run with 1 hub locked in and the front axle disengaged. Then it steers like it was open. If I need more traction, I engage the front axle and then it still steers pretty much like it did open. If I need more than 3 wheel drive I lock in the other hub. It does not steer as well then, but it will definitely go...I used to do this with my Dana30 and BFG 35 and I still do it with my 60 and 38's

Originally posted by joep
So bad dog, what you are saying is that if you have an automatic locker then you can disengage the Tcase and the locker will disengage but if you have welded or spool then shifting your tcase doesn't effect it? Is this right?
joe

Yes. The outside wheel can over-run the inside with an auto locker. If the tcase is not engaged on the front, then the inside wheel is free to turn as slow as it needs to, and the outside can over-run as it needs to. This is true as long as the auto-locker is functioning properly, sometimes (wear, poor maintenance) they don't want to disengage and they act like a spool. The only issue then is that being locked in the rear (and under power) has a similar, although less pronounced, effect. That is, the inside tire on the back will be turning at the same rate as the outside giving it a tendency to want to push you straight. Even with the front hubs unlocked, on certain types of terrain (especially turning while going up hill), hitting the gas with a rear locker and the front wheels turned results in motion straight ahead.

I intend to run an ARB up front in my Dana 60, and drive flanges instead of lockouts.... Off road only - so no worries about road perfirmance.


Anyone wanting a welded 35 spline Dana 60 carrier for 4.88 (and other low ratio) gears? :D

all this locking and unlocking? the trails i run have obstacles that aren't that far apart to where i'm getting out and locking/unlocking all the time, and shouldn't you be used to driving while turned in 4 wheel drive just in case you, heaven forbid, cant disconect the front and need it for the obstacle your going over?:p

That's why I want the twin-stick. Just engage as needed without getting out. Sometimes traction might make it necessary to do a three wheel turn (unlock the inside front) but most of the time, just engage the front, point, and go. Just like there is a potential for "not being able to get out and (un)lock", there are potential places where you can't make a 3-5 point turn. You give a little, take a little, and figure out what you can (or want to) deal with.

ARB is nice but, I don't want to spend the money or deal with the additional failure points. Now, if OX were out (and proven) for less than the ARB (as they claim) then I would be all OVER that!

I am considering dropping my welded carrier in the front now on my cruiser. Welded front and rear. I will let you know what I think next week. It's gonna suck to turn but with it welded front and rear...who the hell needs to turn?? GO OVER IT!! haha

It's best to save your $$$ and buy an ARB or OX...:D

It's best to save your $$$ and buy an ARB or OX...
Whats the point if its just gonna be a trail rig,either weld it or throw a spool in it

Originally posted by Jimyrigdfj

Whats the point if its just gonna be a trail rig,either weld it or throw a spool in it

The "point" for a trail rig is the increased ability to turn, and less wear on the front shafts.

Originally posted by GloNDark
I am considering dropping my welded carrier in the front now on my cruiser. Welded front and rear. I will let you know what I think next week. It's gonna suck to turn but with it welded front and rear...who the hell needs to turn?? GO OVER IT!! haha I want a turn driving your Cruizah after you do this!

I have been told that on slippery sidehills it is best not to be locked to keep the forward motion much higher ratio than the sliding sideways motion. If anyone can confirm this, this would be the only situation where spools could get you in trouble.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I have been told that on slippery sidehills it is best not to be locked to keep the forward motion much higher ratio than the sliding sideways motion. If anyone can confirm this, this would be the only situation where spools could get you in trouble.

This is a fact. Spools and Detroits can both get you into trouble in these situations where an open (or unlocked ARB) would be able to get through. Most noticeable (IMO) in snow/ice, also seen on muddy trails. Last seen here on loose pumice; a buddy with detroits front and rear in his Cherokee slid slideways on a loose pumice hill, dropped the RR into a deep hole and rolled backwards/sideways. Smashed the top down good; no one hurt. Fullsize with unlocked ARBs made it.

Welded/Spool vs Auto Locker vs Selectable Locker

A lot of people will quickly recommend, “weld it!!” “detroit!!” “ARB!!” with out understanding the specifics of the particular application.

The bottom line here is WHAT IS APPROPRIATE!!!

All of these have their place, and that is why every one of these are heavily used and all types of rigs, by all types people, for all types of wheel’n.

Are you going to weld the front and rear of a 2002 XYZ that is used 95% on road?
Are you going to spend $2000 to select lock your beater truck you paid $500 for?

In many cases you can weld a carrier just to get you by till you purchase the locker that will replace it.

Lockers can get you in trouble on a side hill. You have to learn to drive with them. Nice thing about a front locker is it gives you the ability to pull yourself straight again with a little get it peddle.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I want a turn driving your Cruizah after you do this!

You got it man!! Should be scary!! hahaha Hell I think it goes every where now...it's gonna be on after that mod let me tell you. Good thing I have about 30 spare birfields!! hahaha

Oh yeah, did I mention I will be running my redneck ram by then too?? WHOO HOO!!!!

fully locked works better in snow and slippery conditions because it reduces the chance of spinning a tire.
you have to break traction on all 4 tires before any can spin.
tire condition is more likely to cause difficulty.
no way an open dif truck can follow a locked up truck when the going gets rough, side hill or flat ground.
on ice or ??? a locked truck has to place any tire on a tractive surface and can move, an open dif will leave you spinning

Originally posted by Madmarx


I am curious, why won't the law allow a welded dif where you live? How would they even know? If it is the chirping of the tires, you already have that with your limited slip...


The law says no coz they can b unpridictable. I recon its a stupid law but it probably does save alot of lives on the street. I had a friend with a locked rear in his car and that thing was wild, He was an awesome driver but it would still catch him out at times coz it would just let go without any warning.

And yes someone could say that there locked rear is a tight LSD and that is my plan for my next cruiser when i lock the rear. The worst a warrent station can do is refuse me a warrent and I'll just go somewere esle, someone with a broader mind,

ARB and never look back I am firm beliver in ARB they are great you will relize just how much you really dont need it!!!!

Adam,

i think i may stay open. that is til i save up enough for that 60 you got..........:flipoff2:

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
i think i may stay open. that is til i save up enough for that 60 you got..........:flipoff2:

ALL MINE !!!!!!:evil: :evil: I AM GONNA HAVE 60' S IN EVERYTHING I DRIVE!!!

(( talking too myself))
( get ahold of your self Adam you are lossing it !!)


ok im Better!!!:rasta:

Adam,

Originally posted by Adam Ant
ARB and never look back I am firm beliver in ARB they are great you will relize just how much you really dont need it!!!!

Adam,

I find that to be true too.... I only use it very rarely....

I find that to be true too.... I only use it very rarely....
Same with me. :flipoff2: