I was wondering if someone can tell me the inside bearing measurement on a small bearing spindle. I did search and found the numbers: 1.780 for the inner and 1.625 for the outer, But it did not specify if it was the big or small spindle. I think off the top of my head those sound right, but just wanna be sure. Thanks

Maybe i should post this in the Chevy section. I know somebody knows this.

Glen-
I just rebiult my axles and the front is a waggy 44 with chevy outers. as far as I know there is only one size spindle for these. I don't know how true this is, but I have heard you can put d30 spindles on there as well. It doesnt sound right to me but maybe that is what you have. I dont know how this helps. Try Burt Williams & Son they have books and books for that kinda stuff. All you need to know is what year and vehicle it came out of.
Josh-

Originally posted by Glen Vaughn
Maybe i should post this in the Chevy section. I know somebody knows this. Some one here will have them.

Heck, I have them just not the time to look it up.

The Waggys and the Chevy small spindles are the same. The Chevy HD44 has the large spindle. I'll measure mine tomorrow and post up.

Yeah, I have the large bearing spindles and I plan to put them on the lathe and turn them down to small spindle size. Just need someone to verify my numbers. thanks

The small bearing (outboard) diameter is 1.620".
The large bearing (inboard) diameter is 1.997".
The seal diameter is 2.5000".
I'm measuring with mics, not verneirs so these number are accurite.
The spindle length from from mounting face to end of threads looks to be 6" long. The reason I mention this is I thought the HD spindles were longer and have more sepperation between the hub bearings.

I think that is the measurements for the large bearing ones. I could be wrong, but that sounds a little large. Where did I get my numbers, and what are they? Not calling BS, just wondering because the numbers I have are smaller than yours, if anything you should have came up with smaller figures.

You may be right, a while back I went through a Dana catalog and was checking some part numbers for comparison. The waggy 44 I have had the same number as a small bearing Chevy D44 but I was just looking at the tech pics and they look smaller. These are both small bearing.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Hybrid_Axle/Axle26small.jpg
I'm almost possitive the same outter race can be used with a different bearing so you can still use the untouched spindle.

The outer bearing is the same on all 44's. It is the inner bearing that is different. I think it was 74-77 Chevys that had the small bearing spindles. I have also heard that as a rule of thumb that if it had flat top spindles it had the small spindles. Well I guess the debate continues and I still need those measurements. Or I guess that i could just take my spindles and the Ford bearing to my machinist and have him turn it down.

Originally posted by Glen Vaughn
The outer bearing is the same on all 44's. It is the inner bearing that is different. I think it was 74-77 Chevys that had the small bearing spindles. I have also heard that as a rule of thumb that if it had flat top spindles it had the small spindles. Well I guess the debate continues and I still need those measurements. Or I guess that i could just take my spindles and the Ford bearing to my machinist and have him turn it down.
Too be technically acurate, Outer bearings are not the same on "all 44's"
Also the rule of thumb doesn't apply to early flatops or 3/4 tons with flatops.
For a accurate listing on the small bearing spindles see my Dana 44 article.

I have a pair of bigbearing spindles that are at the machinist's right now. I sent a small bearing spindle along as a pattern for him. I took some measurements for the instructions and they pretty much match what you quoted earlier...1.778 for the inner bearing surface. It looked like it needed to be turned down for about 2.2" along the length of the spindle. Seal and outer suface was same on both types of spindles.
Have you given any thought as to whether or not removing the hardened surface will affect it? I am not worried about it in my case because it's finally not my daily driver anymore and the front end gets inspected after every run, so it will be easy to keep the bearings greased. I think the hardened surface would help it resist galling if a bearing spun, not there for any kind of structural strength/integrity? Right? Anybody?

Originally posted by JeepinDoug
I'm almost possitive the same outter race can be used with a different bearing so you can still use the untouched spindle.

What I mean by this is the inboard bearing has a bearing and race combo. I've heard you can substitute the inner bearing with a different size to to keep the spindle hub combo you have without modifiing the spindle.
I will deffinately checking my options now since my spindles have the large inner bearing boss.
FYI, the bearings you need for the smallies are set 37 and set 45, if you get them you can measure the ID.

Did not think about the hardness factor. I will ask my machinist and see what he thinks. He said we could put it on the crankshaft grinder to do a really nide job and polish it back up. So I guess that the 1.780 is right. Anybody else know about the hardness of the spindles and what is the metallurgic effects of grinding them down. Mine will be used as a DD.

Mr. N, nice work on your articles. I was reading through the High steer article and came across this.
FSJ spindle on the left and early Chevy on the right.
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/images/Dana44flatops/Spindle_paint.jpg
Yep the one on the left is the one I have.

Mr. N says in his article they can be machined, he doesn't however mention anything about hardness. Being a machinist for 20 years now I'm gonna take a wild guess at saying they are not heat treated. The reason I say this is because I took the dullest file in my toolbox and filed a corner right off the spindle, cut it like butter. A case-hardened or heat treated spindle would have made the file easily skate over it.

You stated earlier that yours measured 1.997, correct. I thought that we had established that the small bearing spindles measured 1.780. The pic on the right is a small bearing spindle so how can you have that one if yours measure 1.997. Make up your mind man. Are you measuring on the right part of the spindle.

My bad man. I need to go to bed. You did state that you had the one on the left. Well Ok I guess we have this coming to a close. I will see what my machinist thinks about the hardness. Disregard the last post!!

Originally posted by Glen Vaughn
My bad man. I need to go to bed. You did state that you had the one on the left. Well Ok I guess we have this coming to a close. I will see what my machinist thinks about the hardness. Disregard the last post!!

I did write "on the right" earlier and corrected myself. It's my bedtime too.

Originally posted by JeepinDoug
Being a machinist for 20 years now I'm gonna take a wild guess at saying they are not heat treated. The reason I say this is because I took the dullest file in my toolbox and filed a corner right off the spindle, cut it like butter. A case-hardened or heat treated spindle would have made the file easily skate over it.

Had been wondering about this for a couple weeks, never thought to try and file it...:emb2: so thanks!

I’m in the middle of dealing with the same problem. I decided to just buy some small bearing spindles after my research, but haven’t received them yet. This is what I know up to this point.

http://members.uia.net/dcouzens/11spindle_pix.jpg

Smaller bearing, outboard (Set 45 for both spindles) rides on area A-B.
Larger bearing, inboard (Set 37 for small bearing spindle) rides on area C-D.
Seal rides on area D-E.
Diameters A-B and D-E are the same for both small and large bear spindles.
Diameters B thru D are larger for the larger bearing spindles.

Seat D on the large bearing spindle is further out from the spindle mounting flange. This means you would also have to turn it back to the same location as the small bearing spindle. The large bearing spindle bearings are closer together than the small spindle.

Timken Bearing Set 45: ID 1.6250 – OD 2.8910 (Both spindles outboard)
Timken Bearing Set 37: ID 1.7812 – OD 3.0625 (Small bearing spindle inboard)
Timken Bearing 368A/362A: ID 2.000 – OD 3.5000 (Large bearing spindle inboard)
Timken bearing page: http://www.timken.com/timken_ols/bearings/

One other note, if you have the lager spindles you probably have the backing plates that came with them. If you plan on using F150 hubs and rotors the backing plates wont work because they hold the caliper to far out for a larger diameter rotor than the F150.

Hope this helps

Looks like it would be a helluva lot easier to just but the damn small spindles than have to know how much and how many places to turn them down.

Yup!

Whatever quitters...:flipoff2:
I'll let you know how my free shet turns out...:D

Yeah, turn them babies down and post some pics, then I will make some free shat too!!

Pay to have them turn down and worry about their strength, a wheel breaking off (DD or not) and dieing, or pay for small bearing spindles and know they’re as strong as they can be? It’s always up to you.

My view is 'Why reinvent the wheel if you’re not improving on it when there’s so many other things to invent.' Good luck to everyone.

How is it going to be weaker than a stock small bearing spindle? The inside ID is the same on each, there will be the same amount of material left. You should know this, with all of your measurements. Refer to Doug's post above for any questions regarding the heat treat issue.

I think you're scared...:flipoff2:...you havin' somebody install those spindles for ya too?:D

I think he is referring to messing around with the metallurgic properties and making it weak. I am gonna turn mine down if I can't get the guy at the junk yard that does not know what he has to ass off a set for like $10 bucks.

Originally posted by Glen Vaughn
I think he is referring to messing around with the metallurgic properties and making it weak.

What metallurgical properties are you talking about?? Doug already established that the spindles were not even case hardened by the file scratch test, so they are not through hardened either. You can't change properties that don't exist in the first place.

If you don't know what you're doing it would be possible to weaken them. You need to copy the small spindles somewhat closely. Large radii and corner breaks will keep them strong. Sharp inside corners will make fracture points.
Also if the machinst turns them on an engine lathe he'll need to make thin cuts with oil or else he could cook the steel.
I'm pretty sure the spindle is not cold rolled steel, it's probably a sort of tool steel, dense and good molecular structure which could be sensitive to too much heat.
If I decide to turn mine I'll be turning them in a large CNC lathe with water soluable coolant. I'll use an ID mandrel for holding and indicate the outside bearing journal in within .0005" TIR. The only number I don't know right now is the depth from the end of the spindle to the shoulder for the inboard bearing, it should fall between 4-5". If anybody has a depth mic and a small spindle?