Need tranny selection opinions [Archive]

Blair

12-20-2001, 08:55 PM

Hey guys i am in need of some opinions. In the spring I will be buying a tool trailer for my work. I will be towing most every work day and I know that my th200-4r is not gonna hold up. However my truck also is used to play in the mud, run in the desert, climb hills, bash snow etc. Kind of a general purpose truck. So I need to know what you would select in terms of transmission to replace the one I have now. I need a transmission that will survive abuse and also will not suck a ton of gas. I donn't really need overdrive because I run 37's with 4.10 gears. It seems like what I want is a good manual tranny, however my engine is a cadillac 472 which has no provision for a pilot bearing in the crank. So if I wanna run a manual I gotta tear down the engine:( So should I just biuld a th400 for it and be done? I know that it will handle the power and towing, but what about the mileage issue? Or should I tear the engine out and run a manual? I have an sm420 I could run or I know where I could get a clark 5 speed with the 8.05:1 first gear, which I might be able to adapt to a BOP bellhousing I don't know for sure. I run a divorced 205 so anything will fit if it is no longer than a short tailshaft th 400. Anyway sorry this is so long I just need some unbiased opinions to help me out. Later

jefe

12-21-2001, 11:51 AM

Blair,
You won't get any unbiased opinions out of me, just opinions.
Just go with the TH400 with a big cooler. It will take unbelievable abuse. Since you don't need O.D., it's the choice and you have close enough pig gears to turn it, especially with the torque of the Caddy engine. This is your cheapest and most trouble free option. If you need more start up grunt, go with a rebuild and a 3:1 first gear.
AFA the Clark, I have a Clark 280VO in my trans pile.
280VO (H) 5.98/3.50/1.86/1.00/0.80/5.04R. This thing is BIG, and no, it will not adapt behind a BOP B.H.
It has a whopping 15/16"pilot stub, a 1-1/3", 10 spline shaft, with a 7" stickout. The bearing retainer is 5.10" in diameter. It's from a '79 Ford F600 dump, 4x4 ( still has the divorced NP205 shifter attached). It weighs at least 235 lbs. Yes, there were lots of variations in applications on the Clarks (all the big MFGRS used them). The other thing is the Clarks shift, well , like a truck transmission: slow and notchy. The NV5600, on the otherhand, shifts like a dream in my Cummins.
Over the life of the truck you won't used more gas than you will burn $ in adapting anything to the Caddy besides the TH400. If you want brute power and good mileage get a Cummins like I did. [pulling a trailer with my Jeep on it and all my stuff, about 14,000 lbs, it still gets about 16mpg going 75] However I pd. over $30K for it new last year. That could by a lot of adapters.
I had a '79 Caddy Diesel once that I put a locking torque converter on behind the TH350. It was manually operated with a switch. Kind of like techno-overdrive. That was kind of cool, as the rpms ran lower when it locked (if not with more vibration). It got great mileage.
If your rig is going to be a work/daily drive, I would stay away from the SM420 or SM465. They are cluncky to shift and a chore in traffic. Great for rock crawling though. I have both of these in my garage too along with a T18a, and T98.
Before I actually bought one, I was enamored of the 300V Clark. But for my CJ8 it's too big and too heavy.

Here are the miriad versions and ratios for the H.D. Clark 5 speeds over the years, none of which quite gets down to 8:1 in low gear:
200V (M) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/6.11R Clark '41-56
200VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.00/0.80/4.87R Clark '41-56
202V (M) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/6.11R Clark '41-56
204V (M) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/7.51R Clark '41-56
204VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '41-56
205V (M) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.51R Clark '41-56
205VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '41-56
207VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.86/6.00R Clark '41-56
250V (M) 7.08/4.08/2.37/1.47/1.00/7.02R Clark '56-67
251VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '56-67
259V (M) 6.06/3.50/2.03/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '56-67
264V (H) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/7.51R Clark '53-68
264VO (H) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '53-68
265V (H) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.51R Clark '53-68
267V (H) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '53-68
269V (H) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '53-68
2621V (H) 7.58/4.10/2.13/1.17/1.00/7.20R Clark '53-68
2622V (H) 7.08/4.08/2.10/1.17/1.00/6.73R Clark '53-68
2651V (H) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.20R Clark '53-68
2653V (H) 7.08/4.08/2.23/1.46/1.00/6.73R Clark '53-68
280V (H) 7.48/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/6.30R Clark '68-85 up
280VO (H) 5.98/3.50/1.86/1.00/0.80/5.04R Clark '68-85 up
282V (H) 6.99/4.09/2.17/1.17/1.00/5.89R Clark '68-85 up
285V (H) 6.99/4.09/2.24/1.46/1.00/5.89R Clark '68-85 up
285VHD (H) 7.26/4.10/2.24/1.26/1.00/6.00R Clark '68-85 up
282VHD (H) 7.26/4.10/2.18/1.37/1.00/6.00R Clark '68-85 up
280VOHD(H)6.17/3.48/1.85/1.00/0.79/5.10R Clark '68-85 up
300V (H) 7.87/4.41/2.63/1.48/1.00/7.87R Clark '60-68 also 310V
300VO (H) 6.27/3.51/1.89/1.00/0.80/6.27R Clark '60-68
301V (H) 7.01/4.35/2.66/1.63/1.00/7.01R Clark '60-68 also 311V
305V (H) 7.01/3.93/2.34/1.32/1.00/7.01R Clark '60-68 also 315V
307V (H) 6.27/3.51/1.89/1.18/1.00/6.27R Clark '60-68
308V (H) 7.01/3.92/2.11/1.18/1.00/7.01R Clark '68-75 also 318V
320V (H) 7.87/4.46/2.51/1.48/1.00/6.42R Clark '68-75 also 380V
380VO (H) 6.27/3.55/1.89/1.00/0.80/5.11R Clark '68-75
325V (H) 7.01/3.97/2.34/1.42/1.00/5.71R Clark '68-75 also 385V
327V (H) 6.27/3.55/1.89/1.18/1.00/5.11R Clark '68-75 also 387V
328V (H) 7.01/3.97/2.11/1.18/1.00/5.71R Clark '68-75 also 388V
390V (H) 7.52/4.35/2.54/1.52/1.00/6.27R Clark 76-85 also CL551
397V (H) 6.82/3.68/1.99/1.17/1.00/5.30R Clark 76-85 also CL557
400V (H) 7.83/4.52/2.54/1.47/1.00/7.63R Clark '60-75
400VO (H) 6.17/3.56/1.90/1.00/0.80/6.02R Clark '60-75
401V (H) 7.07/4.33/2.68/1.64/1.00/6.90R Clark '60-75
403V (H) 7.83/4.52/2.68/1.58/1.00/7.63R Clark '60-75
405V (H) 6.17/3.56/2.11/1.43/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75
406V (H) 6.61/3.56/1.90/1.32/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75
408V (H) 6.17/3.56/1.90/1.16/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75
and the 5 speed New Process younger sisters:
NP540D (M) 6.06/3.31/1.84/1.16/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540D1(M) 6.06/3.31/1.59/1.13/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540D2(M) 6.06/3.31/1.96/1.21/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540O (M) 6.06/3.31/1.84/1.00/0.82/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540L (M) 7.41/4.05/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540L1 (M) 7.41/4.05/1.94/1.39/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP540L2 (M) 7.41/4.05/2.26/1.42/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78
NP541D (M) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.17/1.00/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69
NP541DL(M) 7.24/4.33/2.61/1.59/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69
NP541GL(M) 7.24/3.88/2.19/1.37/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69
NP541O (M) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.00/0.85/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69
NP542D (H) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.17/1.00/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82
NP542DL(H) 7.24/4.33/2.61/1.59/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82
NP542GL(H) 7.24/3.88/2.19/1.37/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82
NP542O (H) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.00/0.85/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82
NP542D (H) 6.29/3.38/2.19/1.76/1.00/6.27R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+
NP542FL(H) 7.33/4.38/2.09/1.58/1.00/7.31R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+
NP542GL(H) 7.33/3.96/2.19/1.76/1.00/7.31R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+
NP7550 (H) 6.03/3.31/1.86/1.18/1.00/6.03R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1974-79
NP7590 (H) 7.37/4.05/2.43/1.50/1.00/7.37R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1974-79

I have a lot more trans info on my website, if you like.
http://homepage.mac.com/jefe/
regards, as always, jefe


Pirate4x4.Com > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion > Need tranny selection opinions PDA : Need tranny selection opinions Blair 12-20-2001, 08:55 PM Hey guys i am in need of some opinions. In the spring I will be buying a tool trailer for my work. I will be towing most every work day and I know that my th200-4r is not gonna hold up. However my truck also is used to play in the mud, run in the desert, climb hills, bash snow etc. Kind of a general purpose truck. So I need to know what you would select in terms of transmission to replace the one I have now. I need a transmission that will survive abuse and also will not suck a ton of gas. I donn't really need overdrive because I run 37's with 4.10 gears. It seems like what I want is a good manual tranny, however my engine is a cadillac 472 which has no provision for a pilot bearing in the crank. So if I wanna run a manual I gotta tear down the engine:( So should I just biuld a th400 for it and be done? I know that it will handle the power and towing, but what about the mileage issue? Or should I tear the engine out and run a manual? I have an sm420 I could run or I know where I could get a clark 5 speed with the 8.05:1 first gear, which I might be able to adapt to a BOP bellhousing I don't know for sure. I run a divorced 205 so anything will fit if it is no longer than a short tailshaft th 400. Anyway sorry this is so long I just need some unbiased opinions to help me out. Later jefe 12-21-2001, 11:51 AM Blair, You won't get any unbiased opinions out of me, just opinions. Just go with the TH400 with a big cooler. It will take unbelievable abuse. Since you don't need O.D., it's the choice and you have close enough pig gears to turn it, especially with the torque of the Caddy engine. This is your cheapest and most trouble free option. If you need more start up grunt, go with a rebuild and a 3:1 first gear. AFA the Clark, I have a Clark 280VO in my trans pile. 280VO (H) 5.98/3.50/1.86/1.00/0.80/5.04R. This thing is BIG, and no, it will not adapt behind a BOP B.H. It has a whopping 15/16"pilot stub, a 1-1/3", 10 spline shaft, with a 7" stickout. The bearing retainer is 5.10" in diameter. It's from a '79 Ford F600 dump, 4x4 ( still has the divorced NP205 shifter attached). It weighs at least 235 lbs. Yes, there were lots of variations in applications on the Clarks (all the big MFGRS used them). The other thing is the Clarks shift, well , like a truck transmission: slow and notchy. The NV5600, on the otherhand, shifts like a dream in my Cummins. Over the life of the truck you won't used more gas than you will burn $ in adapting anything to the Caddy besides the TH400. If you want brute power and good mileage get a Cummins like I did. [pulling a trailer with my Jeep on it and all my stuff, about 14,000 lbs, it still gets about 16mpg going 75] However I pd. over $30K for it new last year. That could by a lot of adapters. I had a '79 Caddy Diesel once that I put a locking torque converter on behind the TH350. It was manually operated with a switch. Kind of like techno-overdrive. That was kind of cool, as the rpms ran lower when it locked (if not with more vibration). It got great mileage. If your rig is going to be a work/daily drive, I would stay away from the SM420 or SM465. They are cluncky to shift and a chore in traffic. Great for rock crawling though. I have both of these in my garage too along with a T18a, and T98. Before I actually bought one, I was enamored of the 300V Clark. But for my CJ8 it's too big and too heavy. Here are the miriad versions and ratios for the H.D. Clark 5 speeds over the years, none of which quite gets down to 8:1 in low gear: 200V (M) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/6.11R Clark '41-56 200VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.00/0.80/4.87R Clark '41-56 202V (M) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/6.11R Clark '41-56 204V (M) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/7.51R Clark '41-56 204VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '41-56 205V (M) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.51R Clark '41-56 205VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '41-56 207VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.86/6.00R Clark '41-56 250V (M) 7.08/4.08/2.37/1.47/1.00/7.02R Clark '56-67 251VO (M) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '56-67 259V (M) 6.06/3.50/2.03/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '56-67 264V (H) 7.58/4.38/3.05/1.72/1.00/7.51R Clark '53-68 264VO (H) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R Clark '53-68 265V (H) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.51R Clark '53-68 267V (H) 6.06/3.50/1.80/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '53-68 269V (H) 6.06/3.50/1.91/1.18/1.00/6.00R Clark '53-68 2621V (H) 7.58/4.10/2.13/1.17/1.00/7.20R Clark '53-68 2622V (H) 7.08/4.08/2.10/1.17/1.00/6.73R Clark '53-68 2651V (H) 7.58/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.20R Clark '53-68 2653V (H) 7.08/4.08/2.23/1.46/1.00/6.73R Clark '53-68 280V (H) 7.48/4.38/2.40/1.48/1.00/6.30R Clark '68-85 up 280VO (H) 5.98/3.50/1.86/1.00/0.80/5.04R Clark '68-85 up 282V (H) 6.99/4.09/2.17/1.17/1.00/5.89R Clark '68-85 up 285V (H) 6.99/4.09/2.24/1.46/1.00/5.89R Clark '68-85 up 285VHD (H) 7.26/4.10/2.24/1.26/1.00/6.00R Clark '68-85 up 282VHD (H) 7.26/4.10/2.18/1.37/1.00/6.00R Clark '68-85 up 280VOHD(H)6.17/3.48/1.85/1.00/0.79/5.10R Clark '68-85 up 300V (H) 7.87/4.41/2.63/1.48/1.00/7.87R Clark '60-68 also 310V 300VO (H) 6.27/3.51/1.89/1.00/0.80/6.27R Clark '60-68 301V (H) 7.01/4.35/2.66/1.63/1.00/7.01R Clark '60-68 also 311V 305V (H) 7.01/3.93/2.34/1.32/1.00/7.01R Clark '60-68 also 315V 307V (H) 6.27/3.51/1.89/1.18/1.00/6.27R Clark '60-68 308V (H) 7.01/3.92/2.11/1.18/1.00/7.01R Clark '68-75 also 318V 320V (H) 7.87/4.46/2.51/1.48/1.00/6.42R Clark '68-75 also 380V 380VO (H) 6.27/3.55/1.89/1.00/0.80/5.11R Clark '68-75 325V (H) 7.01/3.97/2.34/1.42/1.00/5.71R Clark '68-75 also 385V 327V (H) 6.27/3.55/1.89/1.18/1.00/5.11R Clark '68-75 also 387V 328V (H) 7.01/3.97/2.11/1.18/1.00/5.71R Clark '68-75 also 388V 390V (H) 7.52/4.35/2.54/1.52/1.00/6.27R Clark 76-85 also CL551 397V (H) 6.82/3.68/1.99/1.17/1.00/5.30R Clark 76-85 also CL557 400V (H) 7.83/4.52/2.54/1.47/1.00/7.63R Clark '60-75 400VO (H) 6.17/3.56/1.90/1.00/0.80/6.02R Clark '60-75 401V (H) 7.07/4.33/2.68/1.64/1.00/6.90R Clark '60-75 403V (H) 7.83/4.52/2.68/1.58/1.00/7.63R Clark '60-75 405V (H) 6.17/3.56/2.11/1.43/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75 406V (H) 6.61/3.56/1.90/1.32/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75 408V (H) 6.17/3.56/1.90/1.16/1.00/6.02R Clark '60-75 and the 5 speed New Process younger sisters: NP540D (M) 6.06/3.31/1.84/1.16/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540D1(M) 6.06/3.31/1.59/1.13/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540D2(M) 6.06/3.31/1.96/1.21/1.00/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540O (M) 6.06/3.31/1.84/1.00/0.82/6.42R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540L (M) 7.41/4.05/2.40/1.48/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540L1 (M) 7.41/4.05/1.94/1.39/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP540L2 (M) 7.41/4.05/2.26/1.42/1.00/7.85R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1956-78 NP541D (M) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.17/1.00/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69 NP541DL(M) 7.24/4.33/2.61/1.59/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69 NP541GL(M) 7.24/3.88/2.19/1.37/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69 NP541O (M) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.00/0.85/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1957-69 NP542D (H) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.17/1.00/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82 NP542DL(H) 7.24/4.33/2.61/1.59/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82 NP542GL(H) 7.24/3.88/2.19/1.37/1.00/7.22R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82 NP542O (H) 6.15/3.30/1.86/1.00/0.85/6.13R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1970-82 NP542D (H) 6.29/3.38/2.19/1.76/1.00/6.27R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+ NP542FL(H) 7.33/4.38/2.09/1.58/1.00/7.31R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+ NP542GL(H) 7.33/3.96/2.19/1.76/1.00/7.31R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1982-85+ NP7550 (H) 6.03/3.31/1.86/1.18/1.00/6.03R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1974-79 NP7590 (H) 7.37/4.05/2.43/1.50/1.00/7.37R Ford, GM, Chrysler, 1974-79 I have a lot more trans info on my website, if you like. http://homepage.mac.com/jefe/ regards, as always, jefe Blair 12-21-2001, 05:25 PM Hey man thanks for the advice! It seems the easiest way to go. Back in the day when my truck was a 283 powered 2wd it had an sm420 and since I live in the sticks and don't have traffic it was fine. I have driven lots of old trucks with Clarks and they aren't that bad if you just shift slowly. Anyway I coulda sworn that I had an article that showed a short list of Clark trannies and ratios and I thought that the CL55 model had 8.05 to 1 gears. Anyway a guy told me he thinks he has one. But it lokks like it would be a lot of work to get it to fit. What kind of mileage drop do you think I will get with a nonlockup th400 vs a stick? My th200-4r is a manula lockup just like you described and 3rd locked is all I ever run exept on the freeway at like 80 mph it does shift to 4th. But I do get about 12 mpg's empty with the lockup. Also if I do go the 400 route where can I get the lower gearsets for it? Thanks again! Later