ok, i acquired some long arms for my wifes zj. picture TJ front RE long arms where the caster link (i'll call it) / upper arm ties into the lower arm. Question being how do you think this will act on the rear (same config). in other words no more four link at the frame in the rear.? hope that makes enough sense , thanks - rig is mainly driven on road (98%)

it will ride ok but act like poop under accelaration and braking...

im doing a zj la right now in the shop...sticking with the 4 link

don't wish for poop acts. any sugestions ? rs9000 turned up / larger sway bar ????

search and read on the most recent threads about suspension. i had to read it at least three times till i understood wtf was going on....but now im like why didnt i understand that before. read up it will be worth the time.

You want to run a radius arm setup in the rear? If you dp you will loose all your anti squat.

Chad

I have seen 3 ZJs personally and driven one that runs radius arms in the rear. All seem to work fine and its a pretty easy thing to set-up compared to a 3 or 4-link. I wouldn't hesitate to run radius arms in the rear.

sweet i think i'll give it a whirl. worst case i guess i would have to add two mounting points to my x-member and lengthen the top arms.
:) :)

Give Mike at Bent and Twisted a call if you're not sure about your set up. He built my arms and cross-member on my 98 (4 link front and rear). With 9 inches of lift, full-widths (built by WFO), and 36's my ZJ handles better than stock on the road and has more flex than you'd believe.
Mike was able to answer all my questions when I was deciding on different suspention set ups. Give him a call.

Give Mike at Bent and Twisted a call if you're not sure about your set up. He built my arms and cross-member on my 98 (4 link front and rear). With 9 inches of lift, full-widths (built by WFO), and 36's my ZJ handles better than stock on the road and has more flex than you'd believe.
Mike was able to answer all my questions when I was deciding on different suspention set ups. Give him a call.

Sorry about the double post. Too many Sierra Nevada's tonight.

Originally posted by chadjans
You want to run a radius arm setup in the rear? If you dp you will loose all your anti squat.

Chad
I love people who don't know WTF they're talking about. It makes things fun. :D

Originally posted by TNToy

I love people who don't know WTF they're talking about. It makes things fun. :D

Well then explain to me in numbers how the squat is contolled with a short upper in the rear. :flipoff2:

And are you wanting to still retain the panhard bar? If yes, why? All that work to keep a panhard bar. A waste. IMO Four link it with four long arms and be done with it.

Chad

Originally posted by chadjans


Well then explain to me in numbers how the squat is contolled with a short upper in the rear. :flipoff2:

And are you wanting to still retain the panhard bar? If yes, why? All that work to keep a panhard bar. A waste. IMO Four link it with four long arms and be done with it.

Chad


radius arm setup...short arm is attached to long arm.

I know what a radius arm is. Explain to me how it would control squat when used in a rear application.

Chad

whadda you got tntoy? i'm all about doin it right , just trying to get it all together on paper so to speak before i tgoes on jackstands. the longer it's apart the longer she drives my truck.:D i do prefer the gettin rid of the trac bar for sure.

anyone else:question: :question: :question:

I run a single radius arm in the rear of my ZJ, with just a lower on the other side, and still have a trackbar. The flex it has is totally unbinding...nothing back there can really bind even if it wanted to, and i still have anti-squat.

I can see why Chad doesn't think there would be anti-squat, but it's actually the movement in the rubber bushings on the upper arm mount that i have that allow for the AS.

The worst characteristic of this setup...bad torque-steer on the road when the upper arm bushings start wearing out. I'm thinking I might make another upper arm for the driver side, and just disco it when i go wheeling so it doesn't bind.

-Ron-

you already have the ultimate 4link geometry on your truggy:flipoff2: :D

just an observation but:

if this thing is 98% on road why change it?
I mean I assume you have a lift already..why change it?
is it for looks or to improve somthing..

what I would do:

extend all the arms - keep it four link with trac bar
make a nice dropped trac bar mount for the rear (make it strong) so trac bar stays flatter..

be done with it.

Originally posted by Booger Weldz
you already have the ultimate 4link geometry on your truggy:flipoff2: :D

Ha Ha - I'll hook you up!!! :D
austin / it's got the 2"bb with 31's. trying to get the wife to step up a bit (little does she know ;) ). thought i'd go 33x10.50's with a mild long arm setup. allready has adverse handleing with the bb so i figured long arms would help that.

The best info i can give is the difference b/w my RE 5 link and a 3 link. The 5 link has definitly better road manners than the tri. Since yours is 98% road, there should be little talk of articulation.

You could try it, the radius arms with a pan-hard bar setup would be interesting... i'd say try something new, you can always change it later.

Originally posted by gearhead313

You could try it, the radius arms with a pan-hard bar setup would be interesting... i'd say try something new, you can always change it later.

How is this "new" and "interesting" when I said like 10 posts up that I have this setup and run it and it works well?

Chad-
What do you have against a panhard bar that you feel a longarm setup that includes one is a waste? What can your jeep do without a panhard bar that mine can't do with it still in place? It certainly doesn't limit flex on my jeep, and actually binds less than a lot of typical 4-links that people build. (besides triangulating the shocks easily)
Not trying to argue, just looking for answers...I find it interesting that people say that certain setups don't work well when they have no experience using such designs.

-Ron-

Ron: I realize you did something out of the ordinary. I myself went with a four link setup because of the tried and true nature of it and really didn't want to have to redo one setup in favor of another. Do you notice the panhard bar pulling the axle to one side as the suspension cycles? I'd just like to see some numbers on your antisquat. I have seen a setup similar to yours and the rig had a hard time controling the squat and torque steer.

Chad

Chad-

I'm sure the trackbar does pull the axle to the side when the left side droops, but it's nothing that's noticeable or that creates any strange rear steer. When it droops on the passenger side, the trackbar really can't pull the axle since the axle is free on that side.

I don't have numbers for the anti-squat characteristics, because to be honest, when i built my suspension for this ZJ, i didn't even know what anti-squat was. What i do know though is that it doesn't squat at all during acceleration, and if i stand on the brakes and hit the gas, the rear lifts about 1.5" - 2" or so (kinda looks like i've got hydraulics. :D ). I'm not sure if the anti-squat that i do have is caused by there being rubber bushings in the little upper-arm and allowing the axle to twist, or if it's just simply the axle trying to drive under the jeep and pushing it up. When i get around to it I'll experiment with hard-mounting the UCA so the axle twisting is pretty much eliminated from the equation, and we'll see what if i still have anti-squat. I know it won't squat, but it may have less anti-squat.

I have major torque steer right now, but that's cause the bushings in that upper arm are long overdue for a change. When i have fresh bushings in there the torque steer is minimal. I'm thinking adding another upper arm to the passenger side and running 2 radius arms back there will get rid of the torqe steer on the street...we'll see.

-Ron-

right on guys , thanks for hacking this out for me.:) i just finished fixing the backup driver around here so i'm about to pull in the zj & go to work. anyone have any suggestions on the 231 shifter mods if any? will be removing 249 in favor of the 231. thanks again :D

MORE projects??????:) :)

Its funny mike from bent and twisted was already mentioned, I was gonna mention him because he has built a couple sweet ass rigs with radius arms in the rear. I think it will work great, it will give you somewhat of a sway bar effect in the rear so should be great on road. I would go for it.