ive been reading some posts about the propane injection, and it seemed like a pretty cheap way for EFI performance, and the perfect fuel swap for my truck. but i have been told that i can do an EFI swap for pretty cheap now, and that i should do that instead of the propane. what do yall think is the best to do, and why?
Ive already read all the stuff on it on patooyee.com, thats what gave me the idea:D

Here in North Carolina, I never see propane at gas stations.

I really want to convert to bbq gas, but I'm worried about getting it filled as I drive mine to and from the trails.

Also there have been countless threads on which setup is better so read one of those.:flipoff2:

Look into "Technocarb" It's the shit for top of the line LPG setups, and you can get enough CFM without needing 2 carbs.

Originally posted by briejer
Look into "Technocarb" It's the shit for top of the line LPG setups, and you can get enough CFM without needing 2 carbs. how much cfm are you trying to get for a rock crawler?

i run LPG and have plenty of power in my small block.

take in consideration of your trucks usage? trail only (trailerd. or driven) any uhaul will have it and or motohome place. do some research on where it is convient to fill up first too.

it is true that efi set up are getting cheaper. so it comes down to a personel preference. i chose it because my rig is smog exempt, i trailer it everywhere and i didnt want any more electricle on my rig then a i needed.

jiMMy

Originally posted by The Jerk


i didnt want any more electrical on my rig than a i needed.

jiMMy


thats whats attractive about LPG to me. less wiring..........:D

If it was conveint and cheap to fill id go LPG since it burns clean.



But for the most part im going EFI since it will be cheap for me to do and i wont lose bed space


Oh yea id definatly have LPG if i hadda diesel truck :D

if you already have a good motor that runs a carb then i would go propane. if you are starting all over anyway i'g look at finding a good used efi motor.

Originally posted by High5
if you already have a good motor that runs a carb then i would go propane. if you are starting all over anyway i'g look at finding a good used efi motor.
You don't have to buy another engine just to get EFI.... you can put the system on your existing engine. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TORC

You don't have to buy another engine just to get EFI.... you can put the system on your existing engine. :rolleyes:

yes but it is more $$$ and if your motor is anything but stock you'll be looking at custom programs for the vcm.

i have done two efi motors in my rigs. the first was to a carb'd 351w and i swapped on a efi set up from a 89 f150. i never got it running right. the second was my current vortec 350. i decided to start with a motor that started with efi. i bought a wrecked 99 dually with 15k miles on it and i could not be happier.

yes i could have probably spent more time and $$$ on getting the efi setup to work on my old 351w but why spend the extra $$$ and time. by the time i was done i would have spend about as much $$ as i did for the new motor. and aftermarket efi setups cost as much as what i paid for my vortec.

I put a GM TBI system on my International 345. It cost me about $350 for the throttle body, ECM, all sensors, new electric fuel pump and the hardware necessary to burn my own chips. Scanner/datalogger software was freeware off the net, EPROM editing software was freeware off the net.

Most U-haul places here in NC can't SPELL propane, let alone have it.

This whole state seems to have 2 kinds of propane.. exchange bottle service for BBQ tanks, or the large trucks that come to you.

I'd imagine Kali is better, since they are all tree-huggin and are more supportive of cleaner air.

Oh, and it's over $2 a gallon here...

what kinda mileage you guys getting with the propane? does it equate similarly to gasoline mileage? like 15mpg with a 20 gallon gas tank will get you 300 miles (obviously), but does the propane filling work out to be the same is what im wondering. most tanks are what 5 gallons for propane? so say 15mpg again, you would only get 75 miles out of a tank?

I looked into both for my project rig but decided retro-fitting a Chevy TBI unit was going to be the easiest and best for me.

One of the big deciding factors is the tank size propane needs. I like to haul a lot of crap and wasn't willing to turn my rig into a hold two people with no camping gear type rig :p

The other big deciding factor is I don't like fawking around with a carb... and since there isn't a local propane expert, I REALLY didn't want to screw with it.

The Chevy TBI is real easy to use. The wiring isn't THAT intimidating especially once you have pulled a wiring harness apart a few times :p Seriously, there is a LOT of serperate groups of wires.

The other nice thing about a TBI setup is you can run into any autoparts store to find parts for it.

My TBI setup is going to cost me close to $500ish.... but I've got about 3 factors going against me:
1) Big block cady... I had to track down an EFI distributor($50).
2) I needed Big block TBI(aka 2" TBI) ($200)
3) I'm replacing most of the sensors with new stuff (distrib related stuff is VERY expensive)

Originally posted by HaWiiLuVeR
what kinda mileage you guys getting with the propane? does it equate similarly to gasoline mileage? like 15mpg with a 20 gallon gas tank will get you 300 miles (obviously), but does the propane filling work out to be the same is what im wondering. most tanks are what 5 gallons for propane? so say 15mpg again, you would only get 75 miles out of a tank?

I talked with someone almost a year ago about this.. IIRC, Forklift bottles are about 8 gallons each, and you get about 7-7.5 in them when filled, and unless you've specifically tuned / built the engine to take advantage of propane, he mentioned he gets about 80-90% of what he used to get, run time wise.

He got about 1 day per forklift bottle of normal trail riding. (makes sense, I use almost a 1/2 tank on an average day with my gas engine)

I am trying to find out how long people are finding there propane tanks last.
I am trying to figure out if a fairly healthly 350 or 383 will run all weekend on 150lbs of propane.

So please post if you run propane what size tank you have and motor and how long the tank usually lasts.

The choice was easy for me PROPANE...



It is very common here in Canada and much cheaper then the high octane I would have to run with a 12:1 motor. Plus having to deal with water here I will never have water in my tank. If I am upside down I will not spill fuel all over the place. And propane parts are VERY EASY to get here. I paid NOTHING for my mixer/lock off/evap or tanks. Plus no fuel pump to fail or injectors to get pluged.

Makes alot of sense to me.

that's 33 gallons. that will run a 350 engine all weekend for sure. I run a 18 gallon and a ten gallon tank. I never use over 20 gallons in two days on the trail. I run an inline 6, but a freind runs a hot rod 327 with just a little more fuel consumption.

hay Jay, remember that tank i had in the back of my yota(the black one, not green), i think it was 100L. That thing only lasted me from the cockring shell out to waip and a full day wheelin, then i fuckin ran out and had to walk my ass back to camp, propane is kick ass, but running out sucks. What about saddle tanks, how many Litres are those?

I went with propane because of the cost and I live in the country.I can put a tank at my home and fill up there for a dollar a gallon...

Originally posted by MOFUGRA
. What about saddle tanks, how many Litres are those?

I have 2 of the old saddle tanks and they are 13"X53" and I calculated them to be 125 LB each but they are too big for me. I may end up having to use them.

Here is a picture of the 20 gallon, 100lb tank I was running in my Jeep. I could run for a solid 2 days on a healthy 351W. I am not running this tank in my buggy so, it is just sitting on my floor now. It is a double piggy back set-up from a motorhome.

my truck has a stock carbed 302 in it right now, but im building, or buying a built 351w later. even though propane is $2 a gallon here my truck isnt my DD so i wouldnt need to buy gas all the time. and like in the patooyee website i could get a big tank and put it on my tow rig and just use that to fill up the tanks on my truck. or i could just have like 3 tanks on my truck and once one runs out switch to another, so im not too worried about running out on a trail. the only thing that im really worried about is cost of doing each one. it seems like there are more pros to propane than cons, because no one has listed a con for propane that has turned me off of it yet. and the patooyee site said that propane is like 110 octane or something, so if and when i get that built 351 i wont have to worry about hearing any pinging. once again propane still seems like number one, i think so many of my friends are telling me to just do EFI because they dont really know about propane conversions.

that's right; i just didn't know anything about it. So I went to my local propane dealer like it says in Lances write up. It is so simple. then you can look around and find a setup for next to free at some forklift junk yard or maybe he will set you up like mine did. I'm about $300.00 in mine. that is with a new mixer and an $80.00 pepare kit for the evap.:eek:

i run 2 forklift bottles in teh bed of my cruiser. that way i dont have to take the rig to get them filled up. just pop out the tanks and go get em filled. each tank is 8 gal(filled to 7.2-3 ish) i run all weekend on 1.5 tanks usually with a very healthy 350.

jiMMy

thanks for that hint on Lances write up! i didnt even think to look there.

Originally posted by orange150
thanks for that hint on Lances write up! i didnt even think to look there.

What check here??? (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/propane/index.html) :flipoff2:

Does anyone know who makes custom size tanks or make tanks period for propane besides Manchester??

I am looking for some custom to work better with the buggy I intend to build the used ones I find are too large.

Here is a website of a company that makes propane bottles. I have been dealing with them off and on trying to get some carbon fiber bottles to save weight.

http://worthingtoncylinder.com/forklift.html

They have dealers in the US like Amerigas.

I will say for the guys looking at going to propane that timing can become a real issue on a healthy motor. I have done some write ups about timing on the engines in some of the propane thread on here before.

Here in the Netherlands we run LPG al lot, It's about 1/3 the price of regular petrol (wich is expensive over here). I run a 80 litre tank (you can fill it to app. 72 litres). Power is about 90 to 95% and mileage is slightly worse than fuel. Running out is not a problem though, because you can still switch it to petrol.

Here are some pic's of my friends car who runs the same:

tank:
http://www.fatboyz.nl/fotos/div/2002/2/binnen%20lpg.JPG

Vapouriser with LPG/fuel switch on the right:
http://www.fatboyz.nl/fotos/div/2002/2/motor%20Vergasser.JPG

Black hoses with yellow letters are for the LPG, fuel system is still intact:
http://www.fatboyz.nl/fotos/div/2002/2/Motor2.JPG

That is for a dual fuel setup and those are notorious for be gutless and not working as well as they should be. Your setup to run gas and then switching to propane. Propane needs the higher compression that would kill that motor on pump gas.

Originally posted by Camp
Here is a website of a company that makes propane bottles. I have been dealing with them off and on trying to get some carbon fiber bottles to save weight.

http://worthingtoncylinder.com/forklift.html

They have dealers in the US like Amerigas.

I will say for the guys looking at going to propane that timing can become a real issue on a healthy motor. I have done some write ups about timing on the engines in some of the propane thread on here before.

Are there any other companies that make DOT cyclinders?

I have done a lot of calc's to figure out exactly what volume I need and I figure it too be 150lbs or 2 75lb tanks and thier size filled to 80% should be about 10"X60".

I have learned that the diametre of the tank drastically changes the volume of the tank. Lenght of the tank has a minor effect on the tanks volume.

Originally posted by Camp
Here is a picture of the 20 gallon, 100lb tank I was running in my Jeep. I could run for a solid 2 days on a healthy 351W. I am not running this tank in my buggy so, it is just sitting on my floor now. It is a double piggy back set-up from a motorhome.

Dangit! didn't capture pic.

Anyways, that pic is of a DOT legal tank. Dot tanks have to be steel. Forklift tanks are NOT DOT legal. An open cockpit (like a jeep) can have the fill fitting inside. My Scout II has a similar tank w/ filler mounted remotely on rollbar. That way I can run hardtop and open the sliding window for refills. DOT doesnt want vapors collecting in cab.


Looking for a down side? How about loss of power w/out compression bump. My local dealer only has a Certified Motor Fuel attendant from 8-5 mon-fri. Sat maybe. Sun, no way. Most propane dealers are closed on sun.

Propane can be done cheap if you DIY. Same w/EFI. Have a pro install 'pane and it can cost as much as a Holley Commando EFI.
TORCs $300 EFI is a killer set-up. But not everyone is up his level of expertise.

If your rig has a compression of 9:1 or less go EFI.

Originally posted by TATER

If your rig has a compression of 9:1 or less go EFI.

This is the truth. I am currently only running about 8.5:1. That has caused me enough of a head ache getting the tune right that I will bump that up either this year or next to about 11:1 or 12:1. It is my understanding that guys are running as much as 13.5:1 and running well but, I don't plan on making that much compression as I see it as nothing but heat, which another problem I have with the low compression. Propane is much like alcohol that it can run cooler but, if you don't have it set right, it will run hotter than gasoline.

:eek: some of you are paying upwards of $2 a gallon for LP? :eek:

do you not have motor fuel exemptions out there?

Here in NM if your LP tank is permanently mounted in the vehicle, you can get a tax exempt slip. All you pay is the fed tax, not the state. Down side is, that the filling station has to be licenced to pump motor fuel as the tank is not removeable from the vehicle.

Last time i filled up our LP rig (couple months ago) we paid $0.96/ gal.

When I was living in Ft. Morgan, I could get my propane from the big dealer there at $1/gal. Now that I live closer to Denver, they rape me at near or above $2/gal. Then they have the nerve to slip and tell me they only pay about $0.86/gal to get it. Holy mark up batman:eek:

Originally posted by Sapper
That is for a dual fuel setup and those are notorious for be gutless and not working as well as they should be. Your setup to run gas and then switching to propane. Propane needs the higher compression that would kill that motor on pump gas.

My Impco multi-fuel setup runs fine,far from being gutless!!!!! hardly notice a difference from switching from fuel to propane, I use a stock q-jet with an old wore out 350 at the moment, going to a 383 stroker this summer.. It does seem to run better on propane than on gas though.. I wouldn't trade the multi-fuel set up for anything, I still have the stock Scout II gas tank and run a forklift tank for the propane, run it on gas until I need the propane...

Originally posted by harkinoff


My Impco multi-fuel setup runs fine,far from being gutless!!!!! hardly notice a difference from switching from fuel to propane, I use a stock q-jet with an old wore out 350 at the moment, going to a 383 stroker this summer.. It does seem to run better on propane than on gas though.. I wouldn't trade the multi-fuel set up for anything, I still have the stock Scout II gas tank and run a forklift tank for the propane, run it on gas until I need the propane...

ditto that.

We run a dual fuel Impco thru a holly 4-barrel on top of a built 429BB. It runs just puuuurrrrrrfect.

I dunno WTF you guys are talking about dual fuel being gutless. Me thinks you need to find a GOOD tuner.

I have no problems with power either, you just need to make sure that the vapouriser has enough capacity when you've got a big engine.

i just put propane on a 383 stroker. i haven't drove it yet.
simple set up and cheap.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/p5ff40ed4233b6f850b038ce2f90af8dc/fa286d6e.jpg