OK here's the deal
This is for my 1990 Cherokee.

I bought a used lift kit from a junk yard here in NH and I thought I got the whole kit but I think there's some parts missing. It cam out of a 1985 Cherokee here's what I got, Trail master front and rear shocks, front springs, rear springs, lower control arms, that's it.

The lower control arms are gray and are tubular with a gusset welded to them. They have a slight bend to them.

I have looked all over the web and have found no PICS of this kit.

The jeep is all over the road. You can't take your eyes off the road for a second.

Is there an upper control arm that is needed or do I have to relocate the upper arm?

If I have to relocate the upper control arm what is the measurements for a proper geometry?

It's the little woman's ride and she's not to happy with it.

Please help.

Thanks

You do know that when you lift, your toe in gets way off and you need an alignment. The lca's are to fix your camber, but you want an alignment shop to check that too. Definitely need to get a real good alignment before you drive around and ruin your tires, and or drive off the road. Make sure you tell the shop that the jeep is lifted.

also, depending on how high the lift is, you may want an adjustable trac bar. and you want to extend the sway bar endlinks by getting disconnects which are key for good articulation offroad. you can go cheap and just extend the links. if it has a rear sway bar, remove it! I am assuming you have a 3 inch lift, even though I am not familiar with a trailmaster suspension lift. You are going to want to get longer brake hoses, and for 3 inches on an xj, you can get stock yj (87-95) hoses and they are the same only a few inches longer. Where in nh are u?

dont lift your xj it aint worth it
youll tear the POS unit body up and have junk like me only trouble is i got 3 years of payments left

Originally posted by Phikap
You do know that when you lift, your toe in gets way off and you need an alignment. The lca's are to fix your camber, but you want an alignment shop to check that too. Definitely need to get a real good alignment before you drive around and ruin your tires, and or drive off the road. Make sure you tell the shop that the jeep is lifted.


I want you to explain how LCA's fix camber....

Fawkin JU reject :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

This jeep was put in my lap when the boy failed to make his payments (co-singed). I am an ASE tech and I just want to know if the kit was supposed to have some sort of upper control arm relocation bracket. It seam's to me that when you raise the front end you must change the upper and lower arms. The kit has lifted the piece of shit about 4 to 6 inches I have 31 inch tires and have had it lined up by a shop that I think just set the toe in. I would have thought that when they did the run out on the front wheels they would have picked up on the fact that the front in is way off. I guess I'll have to get my tape measure out and build my own link set up. I think that the Camber? is +7degrees is this right. I also had to shorten the bar that goes across the axle the one that holds the front end centered in the jeep about 3/4 inch

I'm an ASE Master tech also and if your camber is +7 degrees your tires would look like this \ / when veiwed from the front... :rolleyes:

Caster is the angle that is adjusted by the control arms. :rasta:

Anywhere from about 4 to 7 degrees of caster will work. You also need to make sure your pinnion angle is ok with the way the caster is set. With about 3" of lift 5-6 degrees of caster should keep the pinnion angle correct. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Stock upper arms work good for about 3" of lift or so. Ideally with more than 4" of lift adjustable upper arms should be used.

Control arm drop brackets are nice to have with 5" of lift or more.

All runout will show you is bent wheels or hubs.:flipoff2:

As an ASE tech you should know this though... :flipoff2:

By the way the bar that goes across the front end is a track bar or panhard bar. :rolleyes:

Well, I was an ASE tech but it ran out in 1994 so it's been awhile. I always get the caster camber confused, not being a front end alignment expert and not doing a lot of alignments where I worked. (Harry did all the alignments), SORRY. I only told everyone that cause it seemed like you all thought I was running the jeep without first lining it up. Hello!!!!

I almost forgot that when you say your an ASE tech you are God and don't make mistakes. Only Doctors are aloud to make mistakes after all it does say Dr. Joe Blow in practice!!!

Sorry if my memory fails me guess I'm getting to old for this shit!!

Thank you for the input:mad3:

I'm not trying to be God, just a smart a$$. :D I don't know everything, but I do know the difference between caster and camber. :)

I only threw in the part about me being an ASE tech because you did... :rolleyes:

I was just correcting what "Phikap said" so you get the correct info about what angle is adjusted by the LCA's.

By the way you need a thick skin around here. :flipoff2:

Oh first, you need to read the Jeep Talk Mission Statement so you know what this site is all about.

Then go check in on the Newbie Post. :flipoff2:

If this site is to brutal for you go to JU... :nuke:

By the way this is how we welcome newbies. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Fawkin Newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Welcome to the Dark Side... have a couple of these :beer: :beer: and maybe one of these :smokin: and enjoy the site... :D

I agree with Tim, except I prefer castor in the range of 5° - 8°. With a lift, you usually have to settle for the low side.

Seems to me that the Trailmaster lift came with control arm relocation brackets. If you didn't get them, it would explain why your castor is off.
You'll get more help if you provide more detail. What is the actual lift height? Measure from the wheel center line to the bottom of the plastic wheel flare. Should be 17 1/2" in front and 17" in back for stock height. The difference between your measurements and these is the actual lift height. Measure your front pinion angle with a magnetic angle finder. If it's more that 4° - 5° your castor is too low. You can use shims behind the lower control arms(at the bracket) to add a little castor, but you'll need new arms if it's too far off.

Like any Jeep, if you build it correctly, calling it a POS won't be necessary.

Thanks Taloya

I went out and measured the lift I got 21 inches in the front and rear. So that should be a 4+-lift based on a 17.5 stock height.

All I can give for info is what I stated on the first post. I got front and rear springs, all 4 shocks (trail master) and lower control arms. They are gray with a gusset welded to them. At the time of install I didn't measure the old lower arms I just put it together and had it lined up. I guess the shop did a quickie. I don't think I had to tell them it was lifted anyone could see that. But I told them anyway.

So off to the shop.

Should I make some adjustable upper arms or should I relocate the upper mounts?
I have nothing to measure the castor with is there a back yard method?

Thanks.

Sorry about the POS thing but when your making payments and repairs at the same time in my book it's a POS.

I had to replace the front and rear axles (needed all new bearings)
Transfer case, both drive shafts needed joints, all the shocks where junk, Drivers seat falling apart, window cranks broke, rebuilt the lower end of the motor, Clutch master, Brake master, front calipers, the list goes on and on!!!!

Can't wait tell it paid off so i can take into the mud and beat the living Sh** out of it.:smokin:

Mine's a '90 with close to 200K on the clock. With that kind of mileage, you should expect to replace u-joints and brakes several times over. I've gone through the same list of repairs except the t-case and axles(just replaced the front bearings). This Jeep is the first vehicle I've owned that I expected to go over 200K miles. Most die at about 150K and some struggled to hit 100k.

With the 3 1/2" lift on the front, your lower arms should be about 1 1/8" longer than the uppers. If you have the means and the skill to build the arms, I'd do that before jacking with the upper mounts. All you need for the castor is a cheap magnetic angle finder. On a stock D-30 axle, the pinion angle + castor angle = about 9.5°. So if you measure your pinion angle at the u-joint, subtract that from 9.5° to get your castor.

My pinion is at 3°, so 9.5° - 3° = 6.5° castor.

Thanks I'll pic one up.

keep in mind that springs sag over time...

we put new springs on my buddy's yj and it was monstrous, they were 2.5" springs (spring over) but it was taller than my rig (3.5" soa). after we wheeled a little the springs came down alot.

Tim,
You must be a homo. Sorry I mixed up the words caster and camber, woooo, big deal. Atleast I was trying to explain something to someone. You look real cool bustin on people for being a newbie when you are one aswell. Your an amateur. Thankyou for giving me such a laugh.

I may be new around here but this isn't the only forum out there. I'm am OK with people trying to push there way around to make them self's look better than everyone else. The only reason I came here was because I heard good things about this site from my friends in another forum and I can't seem to find any info on the kit I got from the junk yard.

I'm a Ford man by blood and I would never buy a Jeep for myself. I worked at plenty of shops and every jeep that came in had a list a mile long. We would fight about who had to work on them cause once you worked on it you were stuck with it until the owner either bought something else or they stopped coming to the shop. Hope I'm not stepping on toes here. JMO

Anyway, thanks for the help we all need it sometimes

Phikap

I'm in the big town of Pittsfield,and you?

Seems everyone so far has been hung up on the locating links, with no consideration to the track bar. You said you shortened the trac bar by 3/4 of an inch, by lifting, the bar should have been lengthened or the lower mount lifted off the axle with an additional bracket in the kit. With out this bracket the lift is going to force your front axle to shift to the driver side. Shortening it is only going to add to the problem. Also, the trac bar and drag link should be parallel to avoid bump steer which sounds like what your experiencing. The shop should have picked this up during the alignment, if they had done a 4 wheel. Best guess, have it re aligned, make sure the front tires are following the same line as the back, then check steering and track bar angles so it doesnt try to turn every time you hit a bump. ASE? Americas Stupidest Exhibitionists???

At any rate, welcome :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I'm not a homo, but at least I'm not a :rainbow: JU reject like you.

I maybe a newbie but at least I know what I'm talking about. :flipoff2: Your post proves who the amateur is...

I'm not trying to make myself look better, your post did that for me.

At least I'm not a :crybaby:

By the way why don't you read the Jeep talk mission statement,
then you'll see that this post doesn't even belong at this site.

Your right thou, I have been laughing ever since this post started.

Maybe you shouldn't reply if you can't even remember some thing as basic as the difference between something as simple as caster and camber.

I seem to remember another post where I smacked you before, I see your still upset about it. Here it is if you forgot...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11900

It's just another reason why you're the amateur. :flipoff:

Get over it or go back to JU :mad3: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

When I bought this kit it was in a junk 85 in a junk yard. My jeep needed everything from bumper to bumper so I bought both front and rear axles complete with all the stuff that attaches to the frame. I made sure to tell them I needed everything for the lift kit and when I got it there was no pitman (SP) arm. I asked around and all the seed shops told me they use the stock pitman (SP) arm. I thought that was strange. After I put it together I used stings to locate the front end cause it was to far to the pass side. So I shortened it.
One good thing did happen the 85 was a 4 cyl. 5 speed and had I think 3.73 gears. Even with the 31's the steedo is still about 10 MPH to fast. Again I said I think!!!!


I forgot that I did use the track bar from the junk yard jeep it was on the axle when I picked it up.

TOOOOOOOOOO MUCH:smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

Tim

When was the last time you got laid???????:flipoff:

Not like it's and of your business you fawkin reject. :mad3:

This site is for hardcore wheelers, you would know this if you read the jeep talk mission statement. :mad: :mad:

get over it you fawkin loser :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

By the way Merry Christmas :flipoff2:

Now go check in on the newbie check in post

:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

Har, har, har... this threads shows real Christmas spirit.... Geez guys, give it a break on Christmas at least...

Wow hope I dont get based or called :rainbow: :crybaby: but no one helped this guy. 351 why don't you measure the length of the junkard lift UCA & LCA , compare them to stock( ruffly 15" UCA & 16" LCA c to c) and work backwards. You said the pitman arm was missing, if you need a lower PA go for a ZJ it's an 1" lower(Grand Cherokee) if your lift is over 3" you will most likley need the adjustable track bar. The castor angles that were posted are right in there. Good luck, RE makes lower control arm drop brackets, mount to the body and drop the rear on the LCA .

Since I have checked in and I am a "newbie":flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by SOXJ
Wow hope I dont get based or called :rainbow: :crybaby: but no one helped this guy. 351 why don't you measure the length of the junkard lift UCA & LCA , compare them to stock( ruffly 15" UCA & 16" LCA c to c) and work backwards. You said the pitman arm was missing, if you need a lower PA go for a ZJ it's an 1" lower(Grand Cherokee) if your lift is over 3" you will most likley need the adjustable track bar. The castor angles that were posted are right in there. Good luck, RE makes lower control arm drop brackets, mount to the body and drop the rear on the LCA .

Since I have checked in and I am a "newbie":flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Thanks for the vote of confidence SOXJ :flipoff2:

I'm thinkin' clueing him in on control arm length, the missing Trailmaster brackets and discussing castor in my previous posts might have helped a little.

The track bar being too long indicates that the doner Jeep originally had a track bar drop bracket. Since it didn't come with the parts he got, the drop pitman shouldn't be necessary. Also, the RE drop brackets are great, but not for a 3 1/2" lift.

Sounds like some of these other D keds didn't get any for Christmas.

I had a great Christmas, got some Christmas Eve and again Christmas morning (I have a great wife). :D :D

Better yet was the Klune V, Atlas II and the Denny's driveshafts my wife got me for Christmas. :smokin:

MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL. :D

I sounds like he might have gotten an adjustable trackbar. At 3.5" of lift a stock trackbar would be too short unless it is used with a drop bracket ( they suck :barf: ). They are hard on the unibody and like to come loose after awhile. With the drop bracket it causes the stock track bar to be slightly too long.

I wouldn't recommend the Trail Master control arm drop brackets to anyone, they'll bend the unibody offroad. :barf: Trail Master says their kit isn't for offroad use for this reason.:eek:

R.E. drop brackets are the only good ones on the market... but long arms are better.

Hows that for Christmas spirit???

Later... :flipoff2:

351,
pittsfield mass, or is there a pittsfield in nh? if so, where is it near? During school, I live in lowell (UMASS-LOWELL), but right now I am in shittay hopkinton. I dont think this phelan hmo could handle the trails around here.

His wife gets laid every night, but he hasn't seen any action for months.

Phikap

Hopkinton is not far 1/2 hour maybe. I'm just outside of Concord.