Sad thing is you probably couldn't paint it any color. Yellow/black...well, that's been discussed
Green/black...taken
Orange/black....taken
Blue/black....taken (Delta)


Paint it rainbow!

So...

file a complaint with the FTC alleging that DeWalt is violating Unfair Trade laws on a federal level, or you may have to file it in your state. (Which may make it a petition not a complaint)

Here's some useful info:
Trademarks are generally distinctive symbols, pictures, or words that sellers affix to distinguish and identify the origin of their products. Trademark status may also be granted to distinctive and unique packaging, color combinations, building designs, product styles, and overall presentations. It is also possible to receive trademark status for identification that is not on its face distinct or unique but which has developed a secondary meaning over time that identifies it with the product or seller. The owner of a trademark has exclusive right to use it on the product it was intended to identify and often on related products. Service-marks receive the same legal protection as trademarks but are meant to distinguish services rather than products.

I'm SURE that DeWalt has a number of cases establishing this yellow as theirs, but I haven't seen any...nor have I looked.

Also, check this (http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/wboard2/messages/67.htm) posting out.

Just some more thoughts.

Edit: Read this (http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.html).

i used to think dewalts products were good. they are good, but they are now over priced pos tools. i know alot of people that used to hav all dewalt tools and have scince quit buying them for other manufactures. dewalt got a big head and now they think they are god and can charge what ever they want. the shame is they worked a deal with home deopt and lowes to sell their products and drop some others. go and look, 75% of hd and lowes power tools are dewalt.

go and buy Bosh or Porter Cable. better quality for less $

Originally posted by Bmf24
go and buy Bosh or Porter Cable. better quality for less $

No joke! I went thru 3 corded Dewalt drills finally just said fawk it, and got a porter cable. Great machine.

Originally posted by GloNDark


No joke! I went thru 3 corded Dewalt drills finally just said fawk it, and got a porter cable. Great machine.

Just to throw a little more gas on the fire, I bought Dad a Bosch 3/8" drill for Christmas a couple of years ago. Big POS.

ChiXJeff

Originally posted by Oxjockey
So...

file a complaint with the FTC alleging that DeWalt is violating Unfair Trade laws on a federal level, or you may have to file it in your state. (Which may make it a petition not a complaint)

Here's some useful info:


I'm SURE that DeWalt has a number of cases establishing this yellow as theirs, but I haven't seen any...nor have I looked.

Also, check this (http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/wboard2/messages/67.htm) posting out.

Just some more thoughts.

Edit: Read this (http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.html).

:eek: :eek: :eek: There's some fast rollovers in there...

ChiXJeff

Originally posted by LAME


That happened about 2-3 years ago.

actually b&d started dewalt in the mid 80's. they had b&d comerical line before dewalt. b&d is the parent company of dewalt and firestorm, along with a couple other shitty tools.

i say f dewalt and we all quite buying them:flipoff2:

Originally posted by ChiXJeff


Just to throw a little more gas on the fire, I bought Dad a Bosch 3/8" drill for Christmas a couple of years ago. Big POS.

ChiXJeff

bosh used to be a home owner grade tool. in the lsat 2-3 years they started making good shit. hitachi (sp?) also make SOME good stuff, but its hard to find, and not everything is worth a shit. i have used many diffrent tools (mostly wood working).

Now that the eBay auction is gone, someone email me a copy so I can enjoy it... I sent Dewault a 'you lost my business' email. I'm a Milwaukee man now!

it isint gone, it will live forever!:flipoff2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372191392

That's a nice looking drill....let me rephrase that....

Wow, I was looking around for a good drill, that looks just like a DeWalt I was eyeing awhile ago....but the auction disappeared before I could lay out my $200. What color is it? I like them yellow n black one's...isn't that the husky brand? Ya mind if I e-mail the pic to DeWalt to try to figure out which model it is? :flipoff2:

...and good luck with the auction! That DeWalt rep would need to be seriously screwed up if he called you on this one.

Originally posted by blackICE ®
it isint gone, it will live forever!:flipoff2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372191392

:D

I love you man! :laughing:

Gonna be placing a few phone calls to DeWalt headquarters tomorrow & Monday morning. From the links posted, it looks like these are just hired bark-dogs and I am not really dealing with someone from DeWalt.

We'll see what a concerned customer on the phone gets going.


I promise I WILL let you guys know what DeWalt says to me, and why :D:D:D

Originally posted by blackICE ®
it isint gone, it will live forever!:flipoff2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372191392

Wait, the flipoff2 got the auction pulled so you got rid of any mention of DeWalt, left the flipoff2 AND shrunk the pic to the size of a postage stamp???:confused:

WTF is "themanwithgreatseats"? From this board?

Originally posted by Schly
WTF is "themanwithgreatseats"? From this board?

I dunno but the son of a gun beat out my generous .20 bid for that :flipoff2: brand drill. I'd bid more, but it's not yellow & black and would clash with my tool box.

(Drama drill.... f'n hilarious :D )

I'm leading at $6.00
Thats all the entertainment value is worth so far.

Originally posted by ForestCam


Wait, the flipoff2 got the auction pulled so you got rid of any mention of DeWalt, left the flipoff2 AND shrunk the pic to the size of a postage stamp???:confused:

the flipoff guy got it pulled last time because it was the featured image in the main listing :p

Originally posted by DRM


the flipoff guy got it pulled last time because it was the featured image in the main listing :p

Are you ever going to work on your truck man? Seriously David, I have been collecting tools. I could beat you to the trail.

I think I have a Dewalt fax number at work if anyone wants it?

It's mine fawkers back off:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Schly
WTF is "themanwithgreatseats"? From this board? :D

Originally posted by beerisgood
It's mine fawkers back off:flipoff2:


so you think! :flipoff2:

touche.:D

whoever buys this thing has to pay atleast 10% of the bid price for the drill 10% of $100=$10 get the pic :flipoff2:
http://www.nclsllc.com/images/flipoff2.gif

The more I read about VeRO, the more I see this system is VERY MUCH being ABUSED :mad3:

Starting to get me pissed off...

Just sent a nice polite e-mail to the addy DRM posted. No profanity or anything, just telling them that I would NEVER buy or even use any of their <censored> tools...

Hell, I wouldn't even wipe my ass with any of their tools after the shee-yat they put DRM through....

:flipoff2:

Got this back from Dewalt:

Thank you for your email of January 9, 2004.



Please provide us the ebay listing number of your auction so that we can let you know why it was terminated.



The first case we litigated on the yellow/black color trademark was against Pro-Tech Power. This first decision upholding our rights in yellow and black can be found at Black & Decker (U.S.) Inc. v. Pro-Tech Power, Inc., 26 F.Supp.2d 834 (E.D. Va. 1998).

Since the, we have sued on the color trademark several companies, including Stanley, DeVilbiss, Grex, Atlas Copco/Kango, Harbor Freight, , Interstate Batteries, etc. None of the companies were able to limit the scope of our trademarks.



We will be posting an about me page in the near future.



Adan Ayala

DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Matt, you willing to look that up?

I'm amazed at Stanley, they have had a black/yellow color scheme for... well.. as long as I can remember. Say 18 years or more? (thinking back to their screwdrivers)

Originally posted by DRM
The more I read about VeRO, the more I see this system is VERY MUCH being ABUSED :mad3:

Starting to get me pissed off...

That was point I was trying to make..Microsoft made me pull legitimate copies of NT because "possibility of pirated software"

Originally posted by blackICE ®
whoever buys this thing has to pay atleast 10% of the bid price for the drill 10% of $100=$10 get the pic :flipoff2:


Lets not forget YOU don't have the drill :flipoff2:

SO are you hoping someone will really run this up or what?

The ad is hilarious, but you should have put a minimum price so it would HAVE to go to, say $300, or the auction would be void...

Can't find the actual court case, but found this:


The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia held that Black & Decker’s yellow and black color scheme for power tools is non-functional, has secondary meaning, and was infringed by competing power tools. In presenting its argument that its color scheme had acquired secondary meaning, Black & Decker presented: (1) survey evidence showing that eighty-five percent (85%) of professional tool users polled identified the yellow and black colors with Black & Decker products; (2) evidence of intentional copying; and (3) introduced instances of actual consumer confusion to confirm likelihood of confusion between the two companies’ products.

The district court noted that even without the poll evidence, proof that Defendant Protek intentionally and directly copied the Black & Decker power tool color scheme created a presumption of secondary meaning. In rejecting the defendant’s defense, the Court held out that laches may not be invoked to deny injunctive relief for the plaintiff there is strong proof where the defendant’s infringing use is likely to cause confusion. Black & Decker (U.S.) Inc. v. Pro-Tech Power, Inc., 26 F.Supp.2d 834 (E.D. Va. 1998).


Does not sound like an open/shut strong case to me to be used as a reference.

It would be one thing if the drill happened to be yellow, it would be another if it was modelled to look like a Dewalt.

Also, another poll could be generated.

While yellow and black are commonly known as a symbol of Dewalt. Would "you" as a professional be able to confuse this drill (DRM's cheapy) and this drill (Dewalts).

I'm still firmly believing Dewalt is in the wrong here, but I'm betting they just had more money than pro-tech. Those who have the most money in court cases, are generally the ones that get the verdict they wanted.

Mine. :flipoff2:

- Chris

Originally posted by Bmf24


actually b&d started dewalt in the mid 80's. they had b&d comerical line before dewalt. b&d is the parent company of dewalt and firestorm, along with a couple other shitty tools.

i say f dewalt and we all quite buying them:flipoff2:

Bullshit


DeWalt has been around for ages, long before they had anything to do with Black and Decker. They used to be the best on the market, and they damn sure werent yellow and black.

By the way, Firestorm isnt a brand name, doek, its a line of tools...

Originally posted by beerisgood
It's mine fawkers back off:flipoff2:

I had it up to $152.50.... but then eBay canned it.... they suck!

Originally posted by DRM
Oh, and this weekend I will be putting together a letter to DeWalt corporate HQ and see what they think about all of this - STAY TUNED :D:D:D

Should I email it, or actually type it up and mail it to them? ;)

Send it as a registered letter.

Invalid Item
The item you requested (2372038696) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available


Damm Ebay asswipes :flipoff:


Why not fauk-up the drill and send it to Dewalt for repair :D

you know
E-bay also has their own Message board where members post about listing issues

This would be a great topic there

Ebay Listing message board (http://forums.ebay.com/db1/forum.jsp?forum=102)

Realy will piss off Ebay to blast them on there own board

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
Got this back from Dewalt:



Matt, you willing to look that up?

I'm amazed at Stanley, they have had a black/yellow color scheme for... well.. as long as I can remember. Say 18 years or more? (thinking back to their screwdrivers)

Supposedly, Stanley lost that because they introduced tools using other color schemes, making the black & yellow ambiguous to their brand.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


Well.. lets put it this way...

Your all full of shit. :flipoff2:

Dewalt has a choice, they can go after the big guys that are making "knock off" or what they consider "look alike" products, which is a high risk, since the look alike products have money invested in their production line. Some legal fight would be worth it to save that investment. Now, before you say, how do I know they didn't go after the big companies? If they did, DRM wouldn't even have that drill in the first place to sell. HF couldn't sell look alikes. I would bet, that if you asked them for cases that they brought forward that they say they won... In reality there are none. It's just a psychological game on their part.

Blah Blah

They just cancel it and go for strong arm tactics, looking to put fear of legal retribution (that they don't want to do anyway) in to someone that can't afford it.

Blah Blah

I would bet that under the court of law, a judge/jury would find their trademark to be to generically written to be enforceable.

Blah Blah

For that reason I think that while Dewalt said they have one multiple cases supporting their trademark, NONE of them had anything to do with color, or if they did, they spooked some poor soul like DRM in to signing a legal agreement. They more than likely never went after a corporation.


(I'm not upset/excited here, I just find the subject interesting.)

Well, it looks like you just provided the proof to rebut all of the above. What was it you said about full of shit :flipoff2:

And yes I agree that Ebay is full of it, but haven't they always been when it comes to fraud. Their system sounds like it is only meant to protect THEM.

In case some of you missed it, it has been re-relisted:




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372191392

Bid to the stars!

Originally posted by NoJoke
In case some of you missed it, it has been re-relisted:




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372191392

Bid to the stars!

nate is sounding like he would actually stick us with the bill:confused: .

Originally posted by larryboy


nate is sounding like he would actually stick us with the bill:confused: .

I will personally sign the drill, and put together a commemorative package about the event and ship it to the winning bidder if the auction goes through :D:D:D

If Nate will let me sell my own damn drill :p

Originally posted by Oxjockey


Supposedly, Stanley lost that because they introduced tools using other color schemes, making the black & yellow ambiguous to their brand.

then wouldn't stand to reason, their trademark claims are nulligied once they start using multiple shades of Yellow? e.g. pushing the orange tint?

I've seen their regular Yellow, but on other Dewalt brand named items, I've also seen the color lean more towards orange.

:confused:

Originally posted by barraza


Well, it looks like you just provided the proof to rebut all of the above. What was it you said about full of shit :flipoff2:

And yes I agree that Ebay is full of it, but haven't they always been when it comes to fraud. Their system sounds like it is only meant to protect THEM.

Yes and no...

Legally speaking, yes, but that isn't the same as right or wrong.

He who has the most money is right in our legal system. It has NOTHING to do with justice anymore. Thank the lawyers for that. Also, consider the judges, the 9th district is a perfect example of judges that make asnine decisions... I think we could all agree to that.

If we had access to the case material, ideally that poll that was entered in as evidence, I bet you could shoot holes through it until it looked like swiss cheese. The thing is, the judge *may* (heck i don't know) not of allowed the defense to question the poll, or pick it apart. At which point, the defense could have decided that continuing to fight that battle was going to be more cost than changing the color of their tools. Again, meaning it wasn't a *just* decision, it would have been a financial one on the part of the defense. Granted, this is all conjecture.

If I was idependantly wealthy, from what little I have found so far, I could probably have fun with it with a GOOD lawyer.

Originally posted by DRM


I will personally sign the drill, and put together a commemorative package about the event and ship it to the winning bidder if the auction goes through :D:D:D

If Nate will let me sell my own damn drill :p

yeah,but i want to bid 5k and not get stuck buying that peice of junk.:p

I wonder if Jeep has been contacted by DeWalt yet
http://www.fototime.com/F671090EE354777/standard.jpg
Maybe they'll make me paint my Jeep:flipoff2: Oh and thats not me washing it before I get any wierd e-mails from you pervs

You wouldn't happen to know her e-mail though? :grinpimp:
or have more pics

nice thong!

Originally posted by DRM


I will personally sign the drill, and put together a commemorative package about the event and ship it to the winning bidder if the auction goes through :D:D:D

If Nate will let me sell my own damn drill :p

Now that I won the auction, I'm gonna hold you to that. :flipoff2:

Once I get it I'll snap a pic of it drilling straight through the center of a DeWalt drill and post it here. :D Anyone got a worn out (or new for all I care ;) ) DeWalt drill they want to donate? :D

- Chris

Originally posted by Csnyder

Once I get it I'll snap a pic of it drilling straight through the center of a DeWalt drill and post it here. :D
- Chris

I own one. I doubt it'll make it through the plastic let alone the field and armature!:laughing:

Originally posted by ForestCam


I own one. I doubt it'll make it through the plastic let alone the field and armature!:laughing:

Worth a shot at least. :D

- Chris

If DeWalt had an actual argument, and strong/stable legal backing; they wouldn't be going after the little guy ;)

Damn. 13 pages about a cheap no-name drill.....

i can only imagine whats in the pages prior.....:eek: :eek:

Originally posted by SR5Dave
If DeWalt had an actual argument, and strong/stable legal backing; they wouldn't be going after the little guy ;)

Please read a few pages ago where we said they...nevermind.

Originally posted by adrunner


Even the "Average" consumer - someone like my mother, who doesn't know a damn thing about tools, will know better than to take the buying tip "you'll know it's a Dewalt if it's a yellow drill". Come on are you kidding? AND, if someone who's knowledgeable about tools gives that tip, there's a problem. How about the tip, "If it says Dewalt on the thing, it's a Dewalt." Now that's a tip. You don't have to know a lot about something to buy it for someone else OR yourself. You just have to know what brand they want OR what brand YOU want. That's the whole point of labels. Labels promote brand familiarity and repeat customers. That's it. Cheers :D




guess way back when, the first model "T" rolled off the factory
floor, they were all painted black.... all of them...

so, skip to 2004, and you get: "Hey Grandpa, what kind of
car is a good car-? "well child, that would be a black car, and
we all know that all black cars are fords.......... so, buy a ford"..


--Sherpa

Does anyone know about how many registered users are on this site? I'm going include this in my "will not buy a dewalt product" letter. i am not going to mention the name of the site, just that i saw this on a bulletin board which has X amount of registered users. so a lot of people are getting a bad opinion of dewalt also i am manager of a construction Co. and will tell everyone i know about dewalts actions. It is a ridiculous thing to do to some guy selling a drill that happens to be yellow.

Originally posted by DRM
BTW - the guy never once admitted the product is illegal, just that I can't sell it on eBay because of their VeRO partnership with eBay.


I made no representation OR misrepresentation about who did or did not make the drill, I am just trying to sell A DRILL.


And, if DeWalt was actually on top of their game, then they would already know who made this drill, and wouold have already been incontact with them telling them to stop MAKING it.


And here is the sad part - I now have a "Warning" placed on my eBay account because of this, noting that I have tried to sell a "protected" item. If it ever happens again, eBay has the right to yank my account immediately. AND - eBay has already admitted they will NOT look into the specifics of the matter, they are just going to take the word of this large corporation WITHOUT PROOF.

THAT is the heavy handed BS some of you seem to not grasp here :rolleyes:

Just one more reason Ebay is evil.

Originally posted by lunghd


I dunno but the son of a gun beat out my generous .20 bid for that :flipoff2: brand drill. I'd bid more, but it's not yellow & black and would clash with my tool box.

(Drama drill.... f'n hilarious :D )

Generous? I had the last one up to $150. :flipoff2: (Steph did outbid me though.)

i work for the 9th largest commerical contracting company in the U.S. we used to buy alot of dewalt shit, but in the last 3 months we started buying other brands. their prices were just to high. ford did the same thing, so now we buy GM. its bad business to piss off a 3.6 billion dollar a year company. not only does the company not buy thier stuff, but all our employees will start buying other brands for them selves also cause we get a deal on it.

I cannot believe Dewalt has a trademark on a color scheme! According to their response posted in an earlier post, it can be varying shades of the color scheme. WTF?
There is no way that could stand up in court and if it does I will loose all faith in our judicial system (what little I have left).

I think DRM is right, it looks like what they have done is hired some watchdog company to seek out "questionables" such as this and bully the little guy into corner. What do they have to loose? It’s all about sales in my opinion.

Here’s my possibly twisted take on the Dewalt logic:
If Dewalt can prevent 1 knock-off drill from being sold on a huge forum such as EBay, or anywhere else for that matter, they may reason that these “potential customer(s)” may decide to buy a Dewalt drill instead since buying a cheaper knock-off drill may have been an impulse buy.
Since being denied the auction for a cheaper drill, these now potential customer(s) will have more time to possibly catch a Dewalt magazine or TV ad, which may be just enough to reel them in and buy their product.
It’s fucking nuts!!
I can just picture a bunch of advertising exec’s sitting around a table talking about strategies such as this.

In my opinion companies that propagate this kind of heavy handed BS just ooze sliminess.

PS: I will never buy Dewalt junk again for my company or myself…
That is all…

Ask Evilbay if they know for certain the person really works for DeWalt. Fraud is rampant there! (mention to them the guy who got over 1 million people stirred up over the Mark Mitsubishi EBay ripoff by getting the major news services involved is asking you questions and see what happens! <G>)
Someone told me not to post it over there, but a few guys know about it before I pulled it back down.

Is this the same person?

http://www.switchboard.com/bin/cgiqa.dll?SR=&MEM=1&LNK=3%3A154&QV=02F790D5D37D0A4079303203O01F791D5D37D0A407B3032 03O07F7EED5D37D0A4044303203O03F72F3DD37D0A40933032 03&F=Adan+&L=Ayala&T=&S=&Search.x=38&Search.y=5

OK, so I sent them a little e-mail saying that this was all a bunch of horse exaust.... here's their response and then what I sent them back....

It is my opinion and a host of others' opinions that the effort would be better spent going after the manufacturers of these products instead of harassing individuals trying to sell off extra stuff. The one instance I saw in person was NOT someone selling look-alikes commercially but someone trying to sell ONE item he didn't need. Your efforts would be much wiser spent going after the company that BUILT the knock-off. I view this as simple harassment. He never claimed that it was a DeWalt product, and after viewing the picture of the item, there was no way any reasonable person could mistake it for a DeWalt tool.

The way I see it, you know you have no chance in <censored> of shutting down the Chinese company making the knock-offs. By harassing people in this country you'll do nothing but loose market share, since word gets around amongst the types of people who used to use your tools. Word of mouth recommendations mean a lot to people who work for a living.

It seems to me that your stance is very firm, and this will end up hurting you in the end...

A former DeWalt tool user.....



At 05:56 AM 1/12/2004 -0800, you wrote:

Thank you for your email of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />January 9, 2004.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

We are sorry that you feel this way. We started enforcing our trademarks on ebay in part because we had received several complaints from ebay users that bought yellow/black power tools thinking they were DeWalt. By requesting termination of such auctions, our customers can be assured that the yellow/black tool they are purchasing is a DeWalt power tool.



While our policy may be inconvenient for sellers, we hope you see our efforts in enforcing our trademarks as advantageous when you are a buyer on ebay.

Adan Ayala

DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Originally posted by eurobob


Generous? I had the last one up to $150. :flipoff2: (Steph did outbid me though.)

APRILRAZZ had it up to $155

Originally posted by Rock_Wrench

We are sorry that you feel this way. We started enforcing our trademarks on ebay in part because we had received several complaints from ebay users that bought yellow/black power tools thinking they were DeWalt. By requesting termination of such auctions, our customers can be assured that the yellow/black tool they are purchasing is a DeWalt power tool.



While our policy may be inconvenient for sellers, we hope you see our efforts in enforcing our trademarks as advantageous when you are a buyer on ebay.

Adan Ayala

DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Adan is so full of crap, he'd splatter if smacked.

AHA! I recall there was NO black on that drill, correct? If so then he's fulla crap as to stopping you from selling it~!

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


Adan is so full of crap, he'd splatter if smacked.

Stealing something from my old sig?:p

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


APRILRAZZ had it up to $155

Didn't get to see that. It was gone before I woke the next day.

Originally posted by DRM


Why PM?


Oh, and DeWalt uses a yahoo address :laughing:


dewaltenforcement@yahoo.com



My guess is this guy is a "hired gun" that does this kind of research for different companies as their bark dog.

dewalt using a yahoo address? you know better.
How do you know its not just some jackass that felt like reporting your drill to VeRO with a email that looked like something that would come from dewalt.
After the email you got from Ebay I don't see why this isn't entirely possible. Its not like they are checking to see if the original email was legit to begin with :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Rock_Wrench
OK, so I sent them a little e-mail saying that this was all a bunch of horse exaust.... here's their response and then what I sent them back....

It is my opinion and a host of others' opinions that the effort would be better spent going after the manufacturers of these products instead of harassing individuals trying to sell off extra stuff. The one instance I saw in person was NOT someone selling look-alikes commercially but someone trying to sell ONE item he didn't need. Your efforts would be much wiser spent going after the company that BUILT the knock-off. I view this as simple harassment. He never claimed that it was a DeWalt product, and after viewing the picture of the item, there was no way any reasonable person could mistake it for a DeWalt tool.

The way I see it, you know you have no chance in <censored> of shutting down the Chinese company making the knock-offs. By harassing people in this country you'll do nothing but loose market share, since word gets around amongst the types of people who used to use your tools. Word of mouth recommendations mean a lot to people who work for a living.

It seems to me that your stance is very firm, and this will end up hurting you in the end...

A former DeWalt tool user.....



At 05:56 AM 1/12/2004 -0800, you wrote:

Thank you for your email of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />January 9, 2004.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

We are sorry that you feel this way. We started enforcing our trademarks on ebay in part because we had received several complaints from ebay users that bought yellow/black power tools thinking they were DeWalt. By requesting termination of such auctions, our customers can be assured that the yellow/black tool they are purchasing is a DeWalt power tool.



While our policy may be inconvenient for sellers, we hope you see our efforts in enforcing our trademarks as advantageous when you are a buyer on ebay.

Adan Ayala

DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Hell, if that's all they care about if I was DRM I would put the damn drill up with a disclaimer that it's NOT a Dewalt drill. That combined with the fact that the color combination does not fall under the trademark language I think they should let the auction slide.

If David hasn't resolved this in the next few months I'm temped to have him sent me the drill and I will put it up on E-bay. They want to bark about trademarks fine, I will give them off to one of my attorney's that does trademarks for some of the largest companies in the USA.

I think they would back down if barked at. Right now I'm starting a huge server upgrade and won't have time to properly deal with a mess potentially this big. But after I get the upgrade done I'm game. :evil:

BTW, I would create another E-bay account if I was you if you plan to re-list it. ;)

Originally posted by Impulse Taco
dewalt using a yahoo address? you know better.
How do you know its not just some jackass that felt like reporting your drill to VeRO with a email that looked like something that would come from dewalt.
After the email you got from Ebay I don't see why this isn't entirely possible. Its not like they are checking to see if the original email was legit to begin with :rolleyes:

Actually after doing some looking he is legit. Here's a patent that he is named on. We are dealing with the read deal. And IMHO he's no bark dog. He's pretty high up on the chain. So far up that I'm surprised DRM got an E-mail from him and not from one of his lackeys. You don't get named on a patent just for fun. ;)

Looks like he's in Joppa, Md.


http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week41/OG/html/1275-2/US06631661-20031014.html

From what I can find, Mr. Ayala is counsel for DeWalt.

Adan Ayala
Firm: Adan Ayala

Address: 510 Newberry Ct
Joppa, MD 21085-4321

Here's his legal credentials:

Adan Ayala
Grp. Patent Coun.
The Black & Decker Corporation
(Legal Department)
Towson, Maryland
(Baltimore Co.)



Born 1969; Admitted 1994, (Admitted in New York; Not admitted in Maryland); University of Detroit Mercy, B.S.E.E.; New York University, J.D.

Went to School here: http://www.law.udmercy.edu/

Tread lightly, he's the real deal. ;)

He likes to run, came in 200th in the Billy Korrow 5k Memorial Run.


http://www.charmcityrun.com/archives/5_6res.htm

Man this is fun. :D

take the pic edit it in a photo software then add to the listing that there are color variations. requests for colors not taken.
then you can sell them

Originally posted by MattS


Hell, if that's all they care about if I was DRM I would put the damn drill up with a disclaimer that it's NOT a Dewalt drill. That combined with the fact that the color combination does not fall under the trademark language I think they should let the auction slide.

If that's what their concern is, I would think a disclaimer would be all that was required. Hell it might even help DeWalt when the Chinese Cheapie breaks and the customer goes looking for a real DeWalt drill.


Originally posted by MattS
BTW, I would create another E-bay account if I was you if you plan to re-list it. ;)

Uh, I think Nate (BLACKICE) already sold it for him. Didn't you read the whole thread?:flipoff2:

Are you a retailer of this drill, if not how would trademark laws apply to you, aren't you just selling a used tool at this point?:confused:

We agree and disagree in part. We believe that going after the manufacturers of the infringing products is productive. In fact, we have sued several manufacturers, including Stanley, Grex, Atlas Copco/Kango, Nu-Way Machinery, etc. Our trademarks have been upheld in all these lawsuits.

But we also believe that the reason manufacturers are making these infringing goods is that there are companies and individuals that are willing to trade in those goods. By shutting those, there is less incentive for the manufacturers to make the infringing goods. After all, why would a manufacturer make something he can't sell? Pursuant to this, we have enforced our trademarks on ebay and other websites, as well as conducted criminal raids.

Ultimately, we believe that consumers are looking and buying non-DeWalt yellow/black power tools thinking they are made by DeWalt. Indeed, this all started when several ebayers contacted DeWalt about these knock-offs. It is our goal to ensure that other consumers are not fooled into buying a lower-quality product.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.


Two words...

Butt Nuggett.....

I wonder if you sold it as barely used but still "used" they could get away with it? I doubt it but maybe.

Originally posted by DRM
Yup - that dang cheapo drill :p

Here is the offending drill:
http://www.4x4spot.com/images/fs/drill2.jpg


And here is why:




What kind of crap is that?

I understand they need to protect their product image, but this is pretty stupid :rolleyes:

DRM,

My boss is blind (legally, not litterly) and even he says that doesn't look like a dewalt

NQS

Originally posted by Roxywheels


But could he be sued by someone using MRD, because its similar and may confuse people? :confused: :roxy:

I have a freind who's initials are DRN, I think he should sue DRM for copyright infrigment.

NQS

Originally posted by MattS
I wonder if you sold it as barely used but still "used" they could get away with it? I doubt it but maybe.

Just Some Asshole
Are you a retailer of this drill, if not how would trademark laws apply to you, aren't you just selling a used tool at this point?

You know - I was wondering the same thing. If it was just a used drill I no longer want, could they really go after me for this?


BTW - I did buy 2 of them, and if I get bored in a few months, I may "use" the other one, get it kinda dirty, and try to sell it on eBay and see what happens (under a different username of course).

Sent an email to our friend Adan today. Seems the "black mark" that eBay puts on my account for this VeRO infringement can only be removed by the person who put it there - DeWalt (Adan).

So I ask, based on our conversations, to have the black mark removed because it was an "honest mistake".

Adan seems to disagree, and refuses to even consider it.

What a beautiful process :rolleyes: :p

What exactly does having a black mark on your account mean? Does it make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things?

Wait, so based on this whole shitting thing they put a negative comment attached to your ebay login. Now, knowing that you didn't know and you're simply a consumer trying to sell a used item, he refuses to remove that comment? What an asshole. Yep, that settles it, I'll never ever do business with DeWalt or B&D again and I'll certainley recommend to everyone I know to do the same..

I say you should call the highest person on the food chain at dewalt and bitch to high heaven about the jack booted way you've been treated and threaten a lawsuit for harassment.

Originally posted by DRM


Adan seems to disagree, and refuses to even consider it.

:rolleyes: :p

He's an attorney. Why would he do something without being made or paid to do it? :confused:


On a side note, file all the complaints you can with DeWalt corporate.

Fuck THAT. Post his number so we can all call him. We can make him the most miserable phone user ever. What an asshole! :mad:

I'm having a real shitty week. I will call this guy relentlessly. :mad: :mad:

Originally posted by MattS
Fuck THAT. Post his number so we can all call him. We can make him the most miserable phone user ever. What an asshole! :mad:

I'm having a real shitty week. I will call this guy relentlessly. :mad: :mad:

DRM, I have never asked you for anything, but please do this, we all desperately need entertainment and a vent for all our frustrations....Do this for US!:D

The email I just sent back to him:

Although I understand your position, the statement below is FALSE - you have no "reason" to believe this, and in actuality, You have been provided with documented information to the contrary. I purchased 2 "cheap" (both in price and manufacture, as you are already aware) drills off the internet, gave one to my father as a gift, decided I did not need the other one so I turned to eBay to sell "unused stuff", as my eBay history shows.

I will be contacting others at DeWalt to let them know how *this* DeWalt customer has been mistreated in this process, and will continue to let others know how DeWalt treats their customers. You have every right and responsibility to defend your product's name, likeness, and reputation - but you seem to have lost sight of customer service and common sense in the process.

Thank You,

David More


Quote:
>>Second, even assuming for the sake of argument that the first time was an "honest misunderstanding," we have reason to believe that you may attempt to sell infringing drills on eBay in the future. Such offer for sale would be wilful and thus not an "honest mistake." <<




MattS - I don't think I have his #, but I will look back through his emails to be sure...

Originally posted by DRM
The email I just sent back to him:




MattS - I don't think I have his #, but I will look back through his emails to be sure...

If you don't have it ask for his number and say would like to talk to him. :evil:

Originally posted by mike
Wait, so based on this whole shitting thing they put a negative comment attached to your ebay login. Now, knowing that you didn't know and you're simply a consumer trying to sell a used item, he refuses to remove that comment? What an asshole. Yep, that settles it, I'll never ever do business with DeWalt or B&D again and I'll certainley recommend to everyone I know to do the same..

Is that what the black mark is? A negative feedback point?

Black & Decker
701 East Joppa Road
Towson, MARYLAND 21286 +1 410-716-3900
+1 410-716-2933

Same address that is listed in his martindale hubble directory listing. ;) I guess just ask for him.

Originally posted by MattS
Black & Decker
701 East Joppa Road
Towson, MARYLAND 21286 +1 410-716-3900
+1 410-716-2933

Same address that is listed in his martindale hubble directory listing. ;) I guess just ask for him.

Gotta 800 number for them? :evil:

Originally posted by Just Some Asshole


Gotta 800 number for them? :evil:

Actually, this is a good time to NOT use a WATS line........ you can block your number from being displayed on CallerID systems, but not on WATS ANID systems.

ChiXJeff

His reply, with my latest reply up top (read bottom to top)

So that is your proof? Can you blame my frustration at this entire process? I am the VICTIM here. I purchased what I *thought* was a legitimate product, only to be told by you that I am STUCK WITH IT. I have seen no indication you are targeting the SOURCE - the people making and selling these drills in quantity. Instead, all I see is me - the average guy - being unfairly treated in this issue. I was not even given the opportunity or warning to pull the item from eBay voluntarily (which I would have done had I been contacted first), instead - you use tactics where an HONEST mistake means I get punished, and have ZERO recourse. Again -can you blame me for my frustration?

Also, are you now telling me I cannot sell this item in a garage sale? I hope you are not serious.

Well, thankfully for all of my troubles, there are several thousand people now well aware how DeWalt is willing to take a reasonable process to extreme lengths.

And I guess that is about all we can discuss at this point - have a good day :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: Adan Ayala
To: David Moore
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: re vero notice ebay listing(s) removed - vero program


According to a posting on an Internet message board, you wrote: "I may wait a month and re-list [the yellow/black drill] showing the blue ones, then in text 'color may vary from pictured item'." You have some other posts talking about how you will sell this in future garage sales, etc. These messages show that you intend to offer for sale and ship the yellow/black drills, even after you have been made aware of our trademarks.

We do not believe we have mistreated you. We have firmly stated our position in a professional manner.

Furthermore, we do not agree with your statement that we "have lost sight of customer service and common sense in the process." Neither our commitment to customer service nor common sense entail assisting you in infringing our trademarks.

Nonetheless, feel free to contact DeWalt at www.dewalt.com or through the 800-4-DEWALT help line if you feel you should communicate with others in the DeWalt organization.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

BTW, based on that last reply he is well aware of this thread, and has been reading it. Which is all the MORE proof that I am not some kind of mass-reseller of these drills, and am NOT trying to intentionally infringe on their marks.

Whether you admit it or not Adan - you KNOW I am being mistreated here, and you KNOW you are acting WITHOUT common sense.

Have a nice day :)

I think we need a separate thread about this thread, just in a condensed version. :D

Ok, so is DeWalt selling Licensing agreements with each drill for the use of said drill, if not the the drill is the property of the purchaser. If said purchaser wants to sell this product other than retail they may. There is NO law against re-selling a product even at a higher price as long as you do not represent yourself as the manufacturer.

Originally posted by The Adam Blaster
I think we need a separate thread about this thread, just in a condensed version. :D


1. DRM buys cheap drill on internet.
2. DRM decides to sell cheap drill on eBay
3. DeWalt strikes out with the wrath of mightly Thor and smashes DRM.
4. DRM shares his story with his PBB support group
5. Everyone enjoys, except DRM :p

I recently bought myself a new Drill. I was at home depot, checking out that shinny new Dewalt drill. Was marveling at it's craftsmanship. When suddenly it hit me, why would I want a drill that obviously has such terrible customer relations? Would I want to deal with possibly trying to sell this drill in 10 years at a garage sale and having some asshat come up and ask for my "Dewalt dealer license"?

NO

I bought me a Makita instead. :laughing: All I gotta say is Dewalt is junk now. So they must make their "junk" stand out from "Brand X junk". Used to be their product would speak for itself, now they have to hire some asshat to defend them left and right. :D

oh my god I cant believe this


I hope everyone who has adamantly defended DeWalt is thinking twice now. Hell with the greanies now we have to worry about corporate lawyers reading what we say here

hey Adan :flipoff:

Several thousand is an understatement. Whats the daily traffic on this site? Wonder what the percentage of traffic are tool users? Tool buyers? Very short sighted. Talk about shitty public relations. Oy.. Yep I agree with Glo, in my opinion the products are no longer as good as they once were anyway. Especially since they went to off shore manufacturing.

Well hopefully he is reading this since if he looks around more he will see we are tradesmen, home remodelers, vehicle fanatics and hobbiest.

And now he will know that I for one and I am sure many more will purchase Milwaukie, Makita, craftsman or even Ryobi before I buy from a company that can be so petty as to raise a stink over this. Its one thing to have it removed from ebay, it another matter entirely to place a blemish on your seller rating over this without any consideration of possible removal.

And to think I dont even care for David but I will stand by his side on this.

Originally posted by DRM



5. Everyone enjoys, except DRM :p

So, how many communications have there been to take up 7 pages (8 now i think)????

Originally posted by GloNDark
I recently bought myself a new Drill. I was at home depot, checking out that shinny new Dewalt drill. Was marveling at it's craftsmanship. When suddenly it hit me, why would I want a drill that obviously has such terrible customer relations? Would I want to deal with possibly trying to sell this drill in 10 years at a garage sale and having some asshat come up and ask for my "Dewalt dealer license"?

NO

I bought me a Makita instead. :laughing: All I gotta say is Dewalt is junk now. So they must make their "junk" stand out from "Brand X junk". Used to be their product would speak for itself, now they have to hire some asshat to defend them left and right. :D

AMEN to that!

To any DeWalt representative that may be reading this. I was considering purchasing a DeWalt cordless tool set. I am happy to say I selected Skil instead and will continue to steer around any DeWalt products in the future and will spread the message about DeWalt's tactics.

BTW, if anyone is looking for good cordless tools, I highly recommend Skil. Mine has lots of cool features that I haven't seen on anything else. Time will tell if it holds up, but I realy like it so far. It's Red too, which is used by several manufacturers, so I would think this color trademark BS shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe we should link this to a few other people at Dewalt I bet they would be interested in reading this too.

I suppose they chose the yellow/black because that's normally what colors are associated with a construction site?

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
BTW, if anyone is looking for good cordless tools, I highly recommend Skil. Mine has lots of cool features that I haven't seen on anything else. Time will tell if it holds up, but I realy like it so far. It's Red too, which is used by several manufacturers, so I would think this color trademark BS shouldn't be an issue.

whooooooooooa easy fella, wouldn't want Milwaukee coming after ya for pimpin the brand x "red tools" now would ya?? :laughing:

hint hint, dewalt rep, see just how fawkin stupid you sound?? Do you ya see?? come awn. :D

At our shop...we have almost nothing but dewalt grinders..prob well over 50 total....after this...not no more...fuck dewalt...we will use them till they die (prob less than a week anyway:flipoff2: since they are shit and constanly needing to be fixed damn neer on a daily basis)

Harley Murray Inc/Murray Trailers
www.murraytrailer.com

see dewalt....a ligit business is on here...and no longer will use your product over this stupid shit...feel free to call me if you wish!

Chaz Murray
1-800-466-4434 i will be happy to tell you to fuck off:flipoff2:

With DeWalt giving the black mark on your ebay account could that be considered slander? Where are the PBB lawyers?

According to a posting on an Internet message board, you wrote: "I may wait a month and re-list [the yellow/black drill] showing the blue ones, then in text 'color may vary from pictured item'." You have some other posts talking about how you will sell this in future garage sales, etc. These messages show that you intend to offer for sale and ship the yellow/black drills, even after you have been made aware of our trademarks.

that wouldn't be infringing upon their trademark because you would not be advertising a yellow and black drill. you'd be offering a cheapy drill that may show up in whatever color you've got. i'd scrawl DeWaLT in big childish letters on the drill and post it up again. give them something to actually bitch about


i'm in the market for a balls to the wall cordless impact wrench right now, and until now, Dewalt was at the top of my list. I will possibly pay more for a Snap On unit now, and i'm sure i will be even happier with the product.

Call me paranoid but does anyone else see a cease & desist order comeing out of this thread???

I would not be surprised to hear a story of lance eating a taco bell 1 day when he gets a phone call from DeWalt lawyers and he says "wtf?"

That's really sad that DRM can't get the black mark removed,it's an obviously honest mistake.

Fuck Dewalt,The'll get no more buisness from me or anyone else I can explain this situation too.

I am a stupid newbie, but intellectual property rights and similar intrigue me.

I think that you can and should push the issue about not being a retailer, simply a regular old tool guy selling a tool that he never used. Selling something outside of a "retail establishment" without intent for personal gain, simply cost recovery should not be governed by the sort of legislation Adan has cited. Can I not sell my hot wheels to my brother because there is a blue circle painted on it? Not bloody likely.

You bought, and were trying to sell, a yellow drill with a black cord. You did not claim it to be Dewalt. Now you are getting the corporate butt ram.

I will not buy another DeWalt tool and will advise all who will listen to do the same.

For what it's worth, I just sent a couple of emails to DeWalt/Black & Decker. The same letter is going out by snail mail tomorrow.

Here's what I sent:

I have been following a topic on a prominent 4 wheel drive bulletin board wherein DeWalt/Black & Decker have gone after an individual for alleged trademark infringement. In this particular instance, one Adan Ayala alleges that a yellow and orange drill motor infringes on DeWalt/Black & Decker's trademarked yellow and black color scheme. It would seem to me that DeWalt/Black & Decker were truly concerned with trademark infringement, they would direct their efforts towards the manufacturers of yellow and black tools and not the casual hobbyist who has possesion of a yellow and orange device.

Because of DeWalt/Black & Decker's heavy handed treatment of this incident you can rest assured that I will never buy another product manufactured by your company. Further, I will will go out of my way to convince others not to buy products manufactured by your company. With luck, the DeWalt/Black & Decker customer base will be eroded to the point that you will rethink your draconian tactics.

Regards
Bob Starks

Burying those clowns under an avalanche of mail may not change their position but they'll know they've been bitch-slapped.

Originally posted by DRM
5. Everyone enjoys, except DRM :p

Should be "5. Hilarity ensues."

I think that should be as overused by people who just don't know as "come AWN" is :D

I think I will change my ebay login to "dewaltsucks"

I am so glad I bought Makita, btw

so mr dewalt lawyer dud (no that is not a typo),



the yellow "color" of the drm drill is not the same yellow "color" that dewalt uses. it has ORANGE "bells ,buttons, and whistles. and like alllllllllll the power tools that i have in my shop and tool boxes it has a black cord. further not only is the dewalt "color" specific but their drills all have a particular SHAPE , THIS DRILL IS OBVIOUSLY NOT A DEWALT AND IS NOT BEING SOLD AS A DEWALT

i for one would be willing to send drm some money to take you to court. you have no leg to stand on and were just plain lucky to get the folks at ebay to cave in to your stupid demands.


you are a petty little man, and drm's tool looks nothing like the crap that dewalt peddles as tools.


notice my avitar dud, im a contractor and will pass this to every costumer and business acquaintance that i have.

Since my tools were stolen last year I'm in the market for a whole bunch of new ones and guess what? None of them will be Dewalt or any other Black and Decker brand.

Click here to see which brands those are: http://www.bdk.com/main_bd.htm

Wow guys... what a response :eek:


As for DeWalt and some "cease & desist" order - I doubt it. All that has happened here was an honest exchange of events that have taken place. You guys may notice I have not told anyone to do anything in regards to DeWalt, nor will I. I have tried to just lay it out like it happened.

As I have made clear - I *fully* understand why they are defending their products, but this just plain ignores common sense.

What makes me most mad is all DeWalt had to do was contact me about the aution, and I would have GLADLY pulled it, and informed them of how I got eht drill, so nobody else would have to go through this nonsense.

Instead though - it seems they are just punishing the victim...

Originally posted by DRM

Instead though - it seems they are just punishing the victim...

And losing sales at the same time:rolleyes:

[

instead of taking it to court...why not try and take it to the public? if they wouldnt have gone as far as they have - this would seem kinda ludircis, but perhaps you should contact some sort of news organization about it? on a slow news day, perhaps a local channel would run it as a segment.

even if it airs just on the local nightly news, think about what kinda attention the people at dewalt will give this if they have a reporter calling up and asking for a statement as to why they are doing this to you instead of going after the manufacturer of the drill?

just a thought...

Originally posted by Mustard Dog


And losing sales at the same time:rolleyes:

Losing a lot of sales at that........ Look at my poll in the other thread. ;)

Originally posted by Joe_W
Call me paranoid but does anyone else see a cease & desist order comeing out of this thread???

I would not be surprised to hear a story of lance eating a taco bell 1 day when he gets a phone call from DeWalt lawyers and he says "wtf?"

This is a public forum and Lance has little control over what randomly pops up here. He simply has missed the post and it's still here :D

I too have been telling my friends and co workers of this Corperate bully picking on the individuals. I will never spend my hard earned cash on any of these products again. I run a installation shop and I fry battery powered tools froom time to time. I recently replaced a 90deg drill with a Makita. I needed a battery for a some B&D power screw driver that uses those Versa pack batteries. I have 2 such drills and burned through 8 batteries in 2 years. I could have ordered new batteries....I didn't. I ordered a compeditors tool and spare batteires at 3 times the price. It should arive from Tessco tomorrow afternoon. I'll throw it on the charger and Friday morning I will throw the B&D tool out and put the remaining batteris in the recyle bin.

FYI I work for a NATIONAL Wireless carrier with multiple shops in most cities. I am one of 27 shops in the Atlanta area employing about 140 people. Most shops also work close wit hthe engineers in our buisness that are not customer facing but do depend heavily on cordless tools. I will pass the details of what transpired to every person I personnaly know (and I been here for 11 years and trained a good many of these people).

Bad news travels fast.

Dewalt doesn't have a leg to stand on. THIS IS BS and the bad PR Dewalt has created will have repecussions.

DRM, jump in your rig and go drive over his car.:D Oh sorry, forgot, your rig doesn't work..:D

I have read this all the way through:eek:

damn I just bought a multicutter the other day to:(
I am gunna try to send it back.

WTF is with EBAY too?

I mean really ebay caves to this shit..ebay is losing it man.
I thought they were a upsccale auction place trying to represent honest deals and the like..

they are supporting this BS and slandering one of their customers...WTF

this is stupid
I hope this goes around the whole net. I am gunna go link it to everywhere I know
later

man this sucks DRM I feel for ya

acctually no I feel for all us..this is the kinda stuff that you look bakcc on in five years when this action has become the norm, and think "that is where it all started" fawk

thank god for the internet..comuunication is easier, and maybe all of our talk will make a difference




who wants to sell my new book on ebay..

"How dewalt and ebay screws people..."

Originally posted by DRM
His reply, with my latest reply up top (read bottom to top)



Sounds like it's time to fire upDewalt sucks! (http://www.dewaltsucks.com) since the Supreme Court has upheld that if it's not slanderous, you can say anything you want on such a website. THEN I will direct over 1 million people to the site (And believe me, I've done it before! <G> Got a couple days to read? )marks mitsubishi (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=45993)



PS: Note to him you have just ONE of these drills you want to get rid of and see what crap he has to say about that.

PPS: I just got a remodelling loan and spent $3,000 on new tools and guess what? They are almost ALL yellow/black and not made by De Walt! (I told the contractor to NOT bring any DeWalt tools with him when he comes to work on my house and explained why so he's now passing this on to the Boeing purchasers seeing how the company is acting UN-American! Maybe someone needs to report them to the Home office? <G>)

Originally posted by KrebsATM02
I suppose they chose the yellow/black because that's normally what colors are associated with a construction site?

Black heart and yellow stripe?

top

Geez, I've followed this whole thing from the begining and just can't beleive the actions of DeWalt.

I am in the market for a new drill and had my eye on a DeWalt - no way, not going to do it. That Hitachi I saw in Lowe's looks real nice now. Think I'll go and get it. Nice green color too.

Thanks for bringing DeWalt's true customer service policy to light - and saving me from having to deal with it.

Sorry about all this, DRM.

Eric

I agree about going to local news about this and seeing if you can get a story out of it.

If that doesn't work what abobut if we all post this story on various boards we frequent. Aside from JU, we could post it on local club boards, perhaps even the mopar board posted a while back (with the viper guy), ls1.com, maxima.org, etc....

If the story is laid out as simply as it is, I don't see how anyone could take DeWalt's side in this. Sure it is their right, and they SHOULD go after companies selling products that bear a resemblence to their trademark. But to go after one person who has never sold a like drill nor does he have any intentions of selling many more in the future.

Hal

When my DeWalt nailer died this week it was replaced with a Senco . As my other DeWalt tools die they will be replaced with Porter Cable products .

Wow.

Took me three days to read this thread from beginning to end.

And I can honestly say that it couldn't have come at a better time. I am currently shopping for an 18 volt cordless combination pack.

Many of the manufacturers offer a combination kit that includes a drill, a sawzall (excuse me, a reciprocating saw), A skillsaw (excuse me, I mean a circular saw), and a light.

All of these kits seem to retail around the $500 price point. I have been researching them, and the three kits that were in the top running were DeWalt, Makita, and Milwaukee.

I had actually decided to purchase the DeWalt kit, (model DW4KIT-2) and the only reason I haven't brought it home yet, is because I didn't want to purchase from Home Depot, as I had heard the nasty rumor that Home Depot receives product with their own sku's on it that may include slightly different internal components. (That, and the fact that I like to support independent retailers, rather than faceless giants.)

Had it just been for the initial problem that DeWalt had with DRM's auction, this would not have phased me, or altered my decision in any way. However, their subsequent dealings with David, and their treatment of him is not what I would expect of a company that I want to do business with.

The last email that David shared, where the DeWalt rep essentially shares that he has been following this thread, reeks of pettiness and vindictiveness, not of professionalism.

The fact that this is not an isolated incident, as someone else pointed out by sharing a number of websites where people had experienced similar interactions with DeWalt only causes me to believe that this is a problem with the company itself, and not a "one-time bad experience."

To DeWalt: I'm sorry, but my current and future business has gone elsewhere. I am a firm believer in making my opinions known with my wallet, and while I have had decent success with DeWalt tools that I have owned in the past, I will no longer consider them as a viable option.

Are people posting this up on other BBs they use? I think the more people who read this, and see it, might be for the better? It could potientially reach thousands upon thousands of people that way.

I bought a B&D cordless like 3 years ago. it has been used well. I have no Dewalt tools whatso ever.

I am shopping for a new cordless because my old one is getting worn out. I will never buy nor will I recommmend any Dewalt products to any of my friends period.


DRM contact your local news station and see what they say. They love to live off of this junk.

Come on guys - don't go posting a link to this all over the web... No sense Lance and Pirate4x4.com getting slammed with bandwidth overload issues...

any way to save this thread to another site so people can read it? I'm clueless to such things

Originally posted by Joe_W
any way to save this thread to another site so people can read it? I'm clueless to such things
my guess would be to click at the bottom there "show printable version". then copy/paste. ;)

Originally posted by Sully
Wow.

Took me three days to read this thread from beginning to end.

And I can honestly say that it couldn't have come at a better time. I am currently shopping for an 18 volt cordless combination pack.

Many of the manufacturers offer a combination kit that includes a drill, a sawzall (excuse me, a reciprocating saw), A skillsaw (excuse me, I mean a circular saw), and a light.

All of these kits seem to retail around the $500 price point. I have been researching them, and the three kits that were in the top running were DeWalt, Makita, and Milwaukee.



Sully, Have you seen the Skil combination kit? I really like mine. The Skilsaw is full size (and you can even call it a Skilsaw), and the rest of the tools (drill, light, recip saw) have some very nice features. It also cost signifigantly less than $500. Oh and best of all, it's not a DeWalt!

Originally posted by DRM
Come on guys - don't go posting a link to this all over the web... No sense Lance and Pirate4x4.com getting slammed with bandwidth overload issues...

People are tired of being dumped on by companies like Dewalt. Who wants to buy a product from someone who might come back to treat you in such an incredibly tacky and poor manor? I was simply stating maybe it would be worth sharing with other boards in hopes to show Dewalt, we the consumer, the so called little guys, who they think nothing of telling to shove it because they know they'll find another drone to buy their product are not taking it anymore. If enough people read this, and contact Dewalt to let them know they lost them as a customer, maybe they'll wake up. One or two people telling them they screwed up is not much to them, hundreds of people telling them, it starts to get really noticed.... thousands, it's a huge impact and hit.

Adan thinks this is all ok, and fine. Maybe this person won't think it's so ok when the emails and phone calls start to pour in specifically naming them and the handling of this situation as the reason why a consumer will no longer buy a Dewalt. What will his supervisors think of this, when they see their name is related in the loss of customers? I'm not suggesting starting board wars, or anything closely related to that. I was simply suggesting to let others know about their actions, and ask them, would you want to buy from a company who acts like this?

Originally posted by MattS


Actually after doing some looking he is legit. Here's a patent that he is named on. We are dealing with the read deal. And IMHO he's no bark dog. He's pretty high up on the chain. So far up that I'm surprised DRM got an E-mail from him and not from one of his lackeys. You don't get named on a patent just for fun. ;)




trust me its not that big of a hurdle, dont think this guy has any type of special MOJO.

Im named on five, and i still pick my nose and have stinky farts.

Originally posted by Sully
Wow.

IHad it just been for the initial problem that DeWalt had with DRM's auction, this would not have phased me, or altered my decision in any way. However, their subsequent dealings with David, and their treatment of him is not what I would expect of a company that I want to do business with.

The last email that David shared, where the DeWalt rep essentially shares that he has been following this thread, reeks of pettiness and vindictiveness, not of professionalism.



This was what pissed me off as well. Originally I didn't think it was such a big deal, but to put a black mark on DRM's eBay account, check up on what he's saying about it, and still treat him like shit really makes me mad. I can't believe they would treat their customer base like this. Reading Adan's snide remarks, and his holier-than-though atitude gives the entire DeWalt company a poor image whether it be what the ywant or not. Like I said props to them for cracking down on knock-offs, but to fuck with DRM's eBay account is just wrong.

DRM What if you painted the drill a different color, then posted in big letters:

NOT A DEWALT DRILL

and then put in the description your dealings with DeWalt, and their pettiness in the whole matter. Perhaps veen naming Adan and copying the correspondance with him, much like the beanie baby guy. Then add a counter at the bottom, and we all post links to the eBay auction on other boards as opposed to here. This way Adan can really see how much exposure he's getting over one little drill.

Hal

Originally posted by Joe_W
Call me paranoid but does anyone else see a cease & desist order comeing out of this thread???

I would not be surprised to hear a story of lance eating a taco bell 1 day when he gets a phone call from DeWalt lawyers and he says "wtf?"


I say "BRING IT"

that fawker(s) has no idea that we havent even cut this one loose on the net yet.

if we decide to broadband this thread on other BBs:

all thier base....

Originally posted by DRM
Come on guys - don't go posting a link to this all over the web... No sense Lance and Pirate4x4.com getting slammed with bandwidth overload issues...

Rather than waste Pirate's bandwidth, I'm going to take this to fucked company (http://www.fuckedcompany.com)

Originally posted by jeeppartz
When my DeWalt nailer died this week it was replaced with a Senco . As my other DeWalt tools die they will be replaced with Porter Cable products .

right on man. Porter Cable !

Damn I've been watching this thread for a while now too and the petiness of it all just amazes me. I will not buy another b$d or dewalt product. I had been considering their chop saw for my new shop and that's not a viable option for me now. The dewalt tools I have now were given to me as handmedowns. In the future, I will take my business to other companies such as Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Metabo.

On another note, did anyone go to the black and decker homepage? They also list Kwikset and Price Pfister. As a person who is buying a home currently and will be doing some remodeling, this is interesting information. I will not be employing any of b&d's products to either furnish or work on my new home.

Bryan Dunn

Well according to this place http://www.uspto.gov/go/attorney/region/att-MD.txt
he is an "agent" and not a lawyer.

Ayala, Adan
Black and Decker INC
701 E Joppa Rd
Towson MD US 21286
410-716-2368
38373
Agent

Towson eh?

That's not too far from where I live.

PM me if you want anything "personally" dropped off.

Send me the drill, I'll show it to him, alongside an actual Dewalt Drill.

Originally posted by Frankie_Bones
Well according to this place http://www.uspto.gov/go/attorney/region/att-MD.txt
he is an "agent" and not a lawyer.

Ayala, Adan
Black and Decker INC
701 E Joppa Rd
Towson MD US 21286
410-716-2368
38373
Agent



contact info.


whos going to be the first to call him? :D

Originally posted by jopes




contact info.


whos going to be the first to call him? :D

I don't think posting his contact information or trying to contact him is going to help David's case much...

Adan.Ayala@bdk.com is his email address.:D

I think I would tell egay to go phuque themselves too. They should have looked at your display and confirmed it against the copy right and they would have seen there are differences. egay is out of control anymore.....

John

Reading, Zydeco Music, Harmonicas, Haiku, Running, Beating up on the little people...


http://www.harpamps.com/servlet/Archives/199724751.html

http://www.miskatonic.org/rara-avis/archives/199807/0262.html

http://haiku.cc.ehime-u.ac.jp/~shiki/shiki.archive/html/0004/0651.html

http://rockabillyhall.blackmill.net/rhof/RABchatARCH3.html


:D

Originally posted by ROKN ZJ


I don't think posting his contact information or trying to contact him is going to help David's case much...

whats it goin to hurt...they already kinda dropped the hammer on him...they cant do anything else...he dident tell anyone to call...everyone has just done it on their own...so i dont see a problem here :D

Ayala, A
1402 Shadetree Rd
Essex, MD 21221-4611
(410) 574-8958

Nice neighborhood.

http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/download.ashx?T=1&S=10&x=1877:1879&y=21755:21754&z=18

Might be more fun to run over to Dewalt's offices and talk to someone high up on the food chain with a bunch of evidence of what happened. Maybe his superiors don't know all that much about this.

I'm 99% sure that area is Hartland Park apartments.

If you read this Adan, We're watching you.

Let's not be stupid here people.

First of all, personal threats against this idiot are bad news. Not only are they a good way to get into trouble, but they make us look as petty and immature as Adan has come across.

Second, harrassment of this idiot gets no one anywhere. If you really want to make an impression, spend your time being professional, and going through the legitimate DeWalt channels. Anything else only makes him look legit, and makes everyone on this board look bad. In other words, it vindicates his behavior in the eyes of an impartial reader.

OK, no threats, no name calling, just the honest truth. I just passed up buying a Dewalt saw, and bought another brand. I will not even consider buying a Dewalt product anymore.

Dewalts customer service leaves something to be desired.

what id like to know is what are the names and contact info of the folks above this clown? those are the ones id be interested in talking to.



ps.

as for those post with this guys info..... i think its great. this is a small man that thinks that he has some sort of power since he is " employed" by a large company. he sits behind his desk thinking that he is important and untouchable. he believes that he will never have to be responsible for his actions and he can mess with the lives of others at will with no consequence.


let him be humbled some.

Originally posted by supaphat
Ayala, A
1402 Shadetree Rd
Essex, MD 21221-4611
(410) 574-8958

Nice neighborhood.

http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/download.ashx?T=1&S=10&x=1877:1879&y=21755:21754&z=18

you guys are fawking good, Remind me to never fawk with the pbb.

Just thought I'd mention that if you wish to call (and be civil, but angry about how you feel) 1800-4dewalt

Originally posted by MattS
Black & Decker
701 East Joppa Road
Towson, MARYLAND 21286 +1 410-716-3900
+1 410-716-2933

Same address that is listed in his martindale hubble directory listing. ;) I guess just ask for him. Hmmm, I can be there in 20 minutes.

David,

I checked your E-Bay profile/feedback and can't see anything related to a "black mark" or disclaimer of any sort with respect to the pulled auction. Maybe it's only something you can see on your end as a "reminder" ?

Sounds like you are stuck with the drill :rolleyes:

If you paint it black, He'll come back and accuse you of trademark infringment WRT Crap and Decker (now there's a company to be proud of...).

If you paint it red, Milwaukee will be knocking on your door.

If you paint it light blue (with a hint of green), Mikita will have a field day with you.

If you paint it dark-blue, Ryobi will call you on it.

And if you advirtise it as a "cheap drill," Harbor Freight will certainly be sending lawyers your way.

It's a lose-lose situation.

The black mark thing is something that ebay gives to accounts that "Fawk up". My account has one because I didn't pay for an auction that I won. If you get 3 marks then ebay axes your account.

Originally posted by CronusTRD
I'm 99% sure that area is Hartland Park apartments.

If you read this Adan, We're watching you. I used to live in Hartland Run apartments in Essex years ago. If he's living there, he's got a freebasing problem, crack for all you younger folks.

I'd be in for a peaceful protest at the B&D HQ. Any Maryland people want to do this, and get the news there as well?

Originally posted by ScottFJ40
I used to live in Hartland Run apartments in Essex years ago. If he's living there, he's got a freebasing problem, crack for all you younger folks.

The property listing here (http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/rp_rewrite/) shows it is owned by hartland apartments

Originally posted by CronusTRD


The property listing here (http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/rp_rewrite/) shows it is owned by hartland apartments I've been using that site alot lately.

Well, here's my 2 cents worth. I spend ALOT of money on a monthly basis as one who works in the construction business and who is in the process of starting his own company. I can tell you what company WON'T be getting any of my $$. NOW, how to deal with this issue at hand. It appears that this "gentleman" checks e-bay for this type of thing. Take another picture of the item and list it for sale under another account name so you don't risk screwing up your good account. Set the reserve at around $500.00 so that no one can really win the auction. List it as a Dewalt drill. He see's the ad, notifies E-Bay that your selling an item that is clearly NOT a Dewalt but is labled as such. You can then use THIS as evidence that it's clearly NOT a Dewalt.:flipoff2:

i like this
great idea. even if this clown does not contact ebay i bet alot of others will and each will be sayin there is no way that thing is dewalt.



perfect. if drm wont i will

Originally posted by Frankie_Bones
The black mark thing is something that ebay gives to accounts that "Fawk up". My account has one because I didn't pay for an auction that I won. If you get 3 marks then ebay axes your account.



So how does one know if you even have black marks? I mean alot of sellers have shit loads of negitive feedback but they are still selling.

A couple of things


The "black mark" is completely unrelated to anything but VeRO issues, and has nothing to do with feedback, etc. What it means is that I have been "warned" for attempting to sell something I should not have been trying to sell, based on the VeRO program.

Now, this is technically not an issue, but what it DOES mean is all it takes one ONE other VeRO infraction and my eBay account will be immeduately suspended.

So, this honest mistake with this drill followed by any other honest mistake means 2 honest mistakes and no more eBay for my acount. THAT is one of the problems I have with this whole process - there is NO accountability, and NO checks and balances system.



And let me make a request: I did not post this here to "get back" at DeWalt, make it one of those internet "issues" you read about, etc. I posted this here for my PBB family to have a little enjoyment from some interesting ChitChat reading material. I have made it a point to try to stick to the facts, and just pass on this little adventure.

You guys are free to take this information however you want. Some of you have sworn off DeWalt based on this (and other things), and that is your choice to do so. However it was never my intention to "hurt" DeWalt in this process.

That said, guys - let's keep it civil. If you want to call/email/write Adan, or any other DeWalt representatives based on my experiences, PLEASE respect my request to conduct yourself in a RESPECTABLE and CIVIL manner AT ALL TIMES. I do not want anyone to get in trouble, bring problems on themselves, threaten someone, visit Adan's house and confront them, or anything else that puts me, this web site, or yourself looking bad in the process.

Oh, and I will be sure to reply back here with any new updates to this rather interesting saga ;)

id like to think that someone from dewalt would look at how rediculous this is and how that drill sooooo does not look like a product of thiers and that they will have the right stuff to make this right.
contact ebay and undo any harm to drm and let the poor guy get on . search our site here and youll find the fellow is a straight shooter.

Originally posted by ScottFJ40
I've been using that site alot lately.

It's great for house hunting and not getting royally fawked.

My parents bought their place (5 acre horsefarm) for dirt cheap in the 70s. This past year alone the value went up 150%. My dad's not too happy about that since he's getting nailed on the taxes.

Originally posted by CronusTRD


It's great for house hunting and not getting royally fawked.

My parents bought their place (5 acre horsefarm) for dirt cheap in the 70s. This past year alone the value went up 150%. My dad's not too happy about that since he's getting nailed on the taxes. The one property we just inherited is 3 acres, right in a prime location. It was dirt cheap when my wifes grandfather bought it in the 50's. According to that site, it's worth almost $400K.

The figures on that site are not actually accurate, as far as buying and selling is concerned. The property is usually worth substantially more.

Oh yeah TTT for DRM and his magical drill

I found the paperwork. I ran into AA dealing with a product safety issue (I ended up in the hospital). Somehow the equipment I sent in to be tested "never arrived". I decided to let it drop since my insurance company covered the medical bill.

Looks like vero/dewalt didn't think it was very funny of me to try and sell DRM's picture.

Aparently dewalt owns the the copyright to pictures of crappy drills.

My ad read something like: "You are bidding on this picture of a yellow drill with a black cord"

Atleast they gave me my $.40 back.


We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:


2376641937 Power Drill



because the intellectual property rights owner notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your listing or the item itself infringes
their copyright, trademark, or other rights.

We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that
they are not obligated to complete the transaction.

If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely will be suspended.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the
intellectual property rights owner directly at:

DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.
dewaltenforcement@yahoo.com

eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the rights owner that requested the removal of your listing(s), we encourage
you to contact them first.

For more information on eBay's cooperation with rights owners through the VeRO Program, and a list of rights owners that have
created About Me pages, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

ebay drill (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32718&item=2592631768)

There is a guy selling these drills like hotcakes. In this one he puts a drill and a die grinder in the same auctio.

Isn't this the same drill in a diffrent color?


http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/10057109/Images/12inchhammerdrill.jpg

and Isn't green and black MAKITA colors?

This is a quote from the above ebay add

(Makita Spare Parts will work with the grinder)

Originally posted by mattsmith
Looks like vero/dewalt didn't think it was very funny of me to try and sell DRM's picture.

Aparently dewalt owns the the copyright to pictures of crappy drills.

My ad read something like: "You are bidding on this picture of a yellow drill with a black cord"

Atleast they gave me my $.40 back.


:eek: OK , how about everyone sequentially poste this same exact ad on fucking ebay? I guess they would have to warn us before suspending our accounts?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read about in my life. With all the things going on in this world, fucking dewalt, and fucking ebay finds it easier to concentrate on harrassing the average AMERICAN, when maybe they should focus on something more productive, like I don't know, maybe build a better tool or learn a thing or two about customer service.

I wonder if I can sell my fucking dewalt POS grinder on fucking ebay, and advertise it as a "worthless dewalt junk grinder"?
It's not like it's a misrepresentation.

that is toooooo funny that they claim the picture of a none dewalt drill that was taken buy someone else is their property.



dewalt is cluelesssssssss




and they still continue to do the same stupid stuff

Originally posted by carnuck
I found the paperwork. I ran into AA dealing with a product safety issue (I ended up in the hospital). Somehow the equipment I sent in to be tested "never arrived". I decided to let it drop since my insurance company covered the medical bill.

I can only assume Adan was as clueless then, as he is now?



Hey Adan, I guess it's easy to be big and bad over the net and some emails huh? Too bad you don't have the stuff to post up here and handle the heat. Of course, that'd be asking too much I realize. That might mean you'd need to develop a personality and god forbid, a clue, and in reading the other dribble that slides from your fingertips to the keyboard, I can see you surely wouldn't be able to grasp any of that.

In reading your replies Adan, you come off as a robot with zero idea how much of a bad idea it was to mess with the lowly general buying public. You thought you could just dump on DRM. Surprise, people are sick of corporate America, especially when it's loaded with garbage like this. I hope you feel like a big man now knowing you helped lose lots of customers. I wonder if your supervisors would like to hear about you, and your charm. About how you have turned so many off a product you are supposed to be protecting. I wonder if each one of us emails and calls them, and specifically names you by name, what you did, and how you acted, you'll still find yourself so awesome and amazing.....? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ScottFJ40
:eek: OK , how about everyone sequentially poste this same exact ad on fucking ebay? I guess they would have to warn us before suspending our accounts?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read about in my life. With all the things going on in this world, fucking dewalt, and fucking ebay finds it easier to concentrate on harrassing the average AMERICAN, when maybe they should focus on something more productive, like I don't know, maybe build a better tool or learn a thing or two about customer service.

I wonder if I can sell my fucking dewalt POS grinder on fucking ebay, and advertise it as a "worthless dewalt junk grinder"?
It's not like it's a misrepresentation.

I'm going one better. I went to ebay about me (see link a couple posts above) and signed in to complain about an auction that was pulled and wrote:

I wish to enquire why listing #2376641937 was removed? As a potential purchaser of this item I feel I may have been cheated by it's removal by some anonymous source (by the way it's someone who CLAIMS to be a representative of De Walt and when I contacted them today, I was told that person was not really an employee but a pseudonym for their legal department to avoid anyone real being targted by some vengeful psycho.)

Originally posted by carnuck
(by the way it's someone who CLAIMS to be a representative of De Walt and when I contacted them today, I was told that person was not really an employee but a pseudonym for their legal department to avoid anyone real being targted by some vengeful psycho.)

So there is no Adan? :laughing:

You really want to srew with them?

Try selling this picture of a yellow Makita!:laughing:

Originally posted by DRM


So there is no Adan? :laughing:

Then someone needs to go after DeWalt for using that guys name! Given the info posted there is an actual person with that name! :laughing: :roxy:

Originally posted by Roxywheels


Then someone needs to go after DeWalt for using that guys name! Given the info posted there is an actual person with that name! :laughing: :roxy:

Dr. Allcome :laughing:

think for a sec. Adan Ayala

nada alaya (not a lawyer)

Originally posted by carnuck
think for a sec. Adan Ayala

nada alaya (not a lawyer)

You're observant! :laughing:

Originally posted by ShawnM


You're observant! :laughing:

Not bad for a fawkin canadian, eh?:D :idea:

this is the craziest thing I have ever heard of

somebody please try to sell a picture of that yellow makita:D

Wow, I just found this thread.......I guess I should visit Chit-Chat more often.

DeWalt is off my personal list of potential tools. That new multi-cutter is gonna be a Porter Cable.

i made a stand. i went to lowes and they only had dewalt brand 4 1/2" metal cut off discs - so i went to home depot to get the norton brand discs i always get.

ha dewalt - thats like 6 bucks you missed out on there :laughing:

Top this.

My POS DeWalt drill burned up. Replaced it with a Milwaukee.

I wrote EBay about VEro and got this back
Hello,
>
> Thank you for writing to eBay with your concerns. We understand that
> this can be a frustrating situation.
>
> When a VeRO member contacts us to remove a listing, they are required to
> sign a legal document stating under penalty of perjury that they own the
> rights to the item or trademark used in the listing, and that the items
> listed are infringing upon their rights. They are not required to inform
> us of the specifics of exactly why, or what in the listing is
> infringing. eBay is required by law to remove any listings the rights
> owner reports to us as infringing upon their rights.
>
> In regards to the item you bid on, we received such a legal document
> from DeWalt Industrial Tool Co. The contact information they have
> provided to us for ended auction inquiries is:
>
> dewaltenforcement@yahoo.com.
>
> We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
> wish you continued success on eBay.
>
> Regards,
>
> Trinity
> eBay VeRO Team
> ______________________________
>
> eBay
> Your Personal Trading Community (tm)

> Original Message Follows:
> -------------------------
>
> My question was how do you verify the person at
> dewaltenforcement@yahoo.com
> really is a De Walt employee with the authority to do these things? I
> called
> De Walt and they denied knowledge of this person's existence.

REPLY:
> Hello,
>
> Thank you for writing.
>
> We understand how frustrating this may have been when the listing you
> were bidding on was removed. Since the listing was removed by eBay at
> the request of the rights owner, you are not obligated to complete the
> purchase of this item.
>
> As you know, eBay neither handles the listed items nor possesses
> sufficient information to make judgments regarding their legality or
> authorized nature. Accordingly, we rely upon receiving from Verified
> Rights Owners requests to end listings which substantially comply with
> federal law. This listing was ended because we received such a notice
> from DeWalt Industrial Tool Co. For more information on why the listing
> was removed, you may contact the rights owner at
> dewaltenforcement@yahoo.com.
>
> Please be aware that your account on eBay is not affected by our removal
> of this listing.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us and thank you for using
> eBay.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Yuri
> eBay Community Watch
>
> Original Message Follows:
> -------------------------
>
> Form Message %42201% 031099
> Subject: VE%X00246 My listing was removed through VeRO [#US ?01]
>
> User Feedback: 22
> User State: ?01
>
> Browser Info: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x
> 4.90; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; MSN 6.1; MSNbMSFT; MSNmen-us; MSNc21; v5m)
>
> Topics > Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong& >
>
> Message: I wish to enquire why listing #2376641937 was removed? As a
> potential purchaser of this item I feel I may have been cheated by it's
> removal by some anonymous source (by the way it's someone who CLAIMS to
> be a representative of De Walt and when I contacted them today, I was
> told that person was not really an employee but a pseudonym for their
> legal department to avoid anyone real being targted by some vengeful
> psycho.)

How about I post the EBay address and EVERYONE write a complaint about this guy? Maybe they will investigate the goof beyond his fake Yahoo address?

Hey, carnuck, the replies from ebay look like they are from a robot. Like some generic mass reply crap they send out to everyone. What a joke...

I wonder if complaining to Yahoo about breaking their TOS would do anything?

Well that definitely settles it for me. Now that the shop is up and running at full steam I'm in the market to upgrade a good deal of my tools, mostly grinders, drills and chop saw. I actually have a B&D Cordless that i like alot and was gonna buy another one and quite possibly some dewalt or B&D grinders and and a saw based on my experience with the drill, but after seeing this I'll definitely be going with another brand, Skill most likely since i've been quite impressed with their jig saw I own. The StinkyFab shop will never again see a single B&D or DeWalt tool. This kinda customer disservice is absolutely unacceptable.

Being a small buisiness owner I realize the importance of good customer service. I simply cant afford to piss people off all the time. I guess its time for DeWalt to send their customer service reps and legal goons back to buisiness school. Its too bad these guys think they have become so big that they can treat people like this.

Dallas Nunn
Owner:
StinkyFab Custom Metal Creations
2588 Progress St. #15
Vista, CA 92081
760-525-6886

One more legitimate buisness owner who will not buy Dewalt or B&D tools and will encourage others to do the same.

Why not repost the drill as a buy it now.
by the time Ebay pulls it one of us will have bought it. ;)

another Idea

Can anyone makeup a BOYCOTT DEWALT
bumper sticker?

We can sell them on EBay :D

Looks like they will allow us to do this

boycott sticker (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3659303380&category=367)

Originally posted by carnuck
I wonder if complaining to Yahoo about breaking their TOS would do anything?

You mean by using it for commercial purposes? Interesting... :evil:

I meant the use of the address as it is a trademark infringement of De Walt's name.

Hello,

Thank you for writing to abuse@yahoogroups.com.

We appreciate your report of possible abuse in Yahoo! Groups. We will
investigate your report and take appropriate action as per our Terms of
Service (TOS). For further details about the Yahoo! TOS, you can visit:

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So a couple days ago, UPS drops off my new 1/2" drill. I was pretty jazzed; after all, it took me awhile to find it, since there are so many DeWalts that use the same color scheme. Fawkin' immitators! :flipoff2:

http://www.jeepthrills.org/Images/DRM_Drama_Drill-01.jpg

Upon closer inspection, sure enough it was the one I'd been looking for - an authentic DRM Drama Drill. It even had that distinctive "fresh off the boat" Harbor Freight smell. :D

http://www.jeepthrills.org/Images/DRM_Drama_Drill-02.jpg

They even included this official certificate of authenticity. It's a good thing too - I would hate to have accidentally spent my money on one of those crappy DeWalts. :barf:

http://www.jeepthrills.org/Images/DRM_Drama_Drill-03.jpg

Now that I'm done being a picture whore, onto a more serious note... When I was a little kid I used to spend hours upon hours looking through catalogs, dreaming of the cool stuff I wanted to buy one day when I grew up. What can I say, my parents were poor and I was an only child so I had nothing better to do. ;) One of the catalogs I looked through regularly was the DeWalt catalog.

Well, fast forward to now. Several weeks prior to when DRM started this thread, my Craftsman drill went tits up. I was going to replace it w/ a DeWalt, but hadn't gotten around to it. I was also planning to buy some additional DeWalt power tools this fall once I buy a house. Well, guess what company I *will not* be buying from.

Thanks DeWalt, for letting a little kid dream of one daying owning your cool looking power tools, only to find out later in life that your company treats the little guy like shit. :rolleyes:

- Chris

glad that you got the drill:D

What is the name of that font used in the certificate?
Thanks
Frankie

Originally posted by blackICE ®
glad that you got the drill:D

Thanks Nate (and thanks again to you too, David). :D

- Chris

Originally posted by Frankie_Bones
What is the name of that font used in the certificate?
Thanks
Frankie

Adler

I canot belive the actions that dewalt has taken from reading this thread. I will no longer purchase any dewalt tools. And advise everyone I know to boycott the company.

http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8469637%255E421,00.html


Ugg boots yanked
By Steve Gee
January 23, 2004

LIKE Arnotts, Vegemite and Hardy wines, the beloved ugg boot could soon be lost to the US in a move which threatens to destroy a 70-year-old industry.

The move comes after US footwear company Deckers Corporation bought an Australian ugg boot company and registered the name ugg boots.

Deckers, operating under the logo Ugg Holdings Inc, has forced one Australian manufacturer to be removed from E-Bay and has threatened to sue other local companies to stop them using the name ugg boots here and overseas.

Dozens of other manufacturers and traders have been issued with the demand. Even the Macquarie Dictionary has been forced to acknowledge US ownership after Deckers threatened to sue unless it made mention of its association.

Intellectual property and copyright lawyer Jane Owen said yesterday the issue first arose five years ago when Deckers sent Australian manufacturers a letter ordering them to stop selling their products in the US.

The companies ignored the demand and now - with the explosion in popularity of ugg boots, especially among the world's elite - Deckers has again threatened to sue.

But local manufacturers, determined to keep the icon Australian, have vowed to fight the move.

Blue Mountains manufacturer Brian Iversen, whose family has made ugg boots since 1933, said yesterday local companies had never bothered to register the name "ugg boot" because the term was "generic".

The thought of a US company now trying to claim the name was "a joke".

Mr Iversen, who runs Blue Mountains Ugg Boots at Faulconbridge, said at the heart of the dispute was Deckers' price for ugg boots.

"They want to sell their boots for $US350 a pair. I'm selling the equivalent in Australia for $120 and they're saying because of me it's ruining their business," he said.

"But that's only because they're charging 350 bucks for something they're paying 30 bucks for - and they wouldn't be paying any more than that if it's made in China.

"They would be making a 1000 per cent profit and they're trying to stop everyone else from selling them."

Mr Iversen, whose father began the business, said he was determined to retain ugg boots.

"We fought them off five years ago so what are we going to give up now for?" he said.

The latest chapter in the dispute began on December 23 when Deckers issued a letter explaining their copyright and ordering the Iversens to stop using the name ugg boots.

But the family's legal team is confident they will beat the US giant.

Ms Owen, who is representing the Iversens and another local manufacturer, said the copyright attempt was like trying to register the term "sandshoe".

"The fact is all the traders in Australia seem to use it."

The Daily Telegraph

Reminds me of when Harlot Davidson copyrighted the terms "Hog" and "Apehanger".

Hell, they even tried to copyright the "potato-potato-potato" sound a harley makes, but that one they didn't manage to pull off.

I thought the laminated certificate was a nice touch, don't you? :D:D:D

Bought a Ryobi (tm) 14.4 cordless drill today. Its blue with yellow features. Came with a free flashlight. Bought this make soley because of this thread. best of luck to their sales department.:flipoff:
Todd out:D

Try to sell this on ebay.

Originally posted by braxton357


Wow..no joke. After that last email, fuck dewalt. That drill isn't even the same shade of yellow. Their tools are starting to become just as shitty as all the other cheapos anymore anyway. Maybe its the B&D influence

Ok dewalt may have some fawked up policys but their drills are the $hit in all aspects. Ive abused all my dewalt stuff again and again daily and nothing bad yet. Others just dont compare not even close Ive owned em all. I must say people that talk trash on dewalts quality dont use tools everyday.

Originally posted by Toddler
Bought a Ryobi (tm) 14.4 cordless drill today. Its blue with yellow features. Came with a free flashlight. Bought this make soley because of this thread. best of luck to their sales department.:flipoff:
Todd out:D


Dude are you fawking kidding me:laughing: no further comment:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Bartcore


Ok dewalt may have some fawked up policys but their drills are the $hit in all aspects. Ive abused all my dewalt stuff again and again daily and nothing bad yet. Others just dont compare not even close Ive owned em all. I must say people that talk trash on dewalts quality dont use tools everyday. BULLSHIT! You obviously haven't bought and used a dewalt drill in the past couple years.

Originally posted by ScottFJ40
BULLSHIT! You obviously haven't bought and used a dewalt drill in the past couple years.


That's exaclty what I was thinking. Maybe the Dewalts HE has are great, but they're not great anymore. He needs to buy some new sh*t and use it every day for the entire month or two that it will last.

Originally posted by Bartcore


Ok dewalt may have some fawked up policys but their drills are the $hit in all aspects. Ive abused all my dewalt stuff again and again daily and nothing bad yet. Others just dont compare not even close Ive owned em all. I must say people that talk trash on dewalts quality dont use tools everyday.

Well, since Adan didn't find this forum on his own, Bartcore's probably the one that sent him the link.

I will have to say I have recently purchased both a B&D product and a DeWalt product. I'm not throwing them away, but I'll not be buying any more, which will be soon since I am building a new house this summer. Way to go, Adan.

Originally posted by 350 Samurai


Well, since Adan didn't find this forum on his own, Bartcore's probably the one that sent him the link.

I will have to say I have recently purchased both a B&D product and a DeWalt product. I'm not throwing them away, but I'll not be buying any more, which will be soon since I am building a new house this summer. Way to go, Adan.

Never sent a link to anybody, so dont call me out Bitch:rolleyes:

Here they are......... One on the top is a month old the other one is over 2 years old and very used, belive what you want:rolleyes:

Ya thats some wear & tear for sure:flipoff2: Bye now:flipoff2:

Hey Fartcore,
this threads purpose isn't for you to tell us how you like to blow Dewalt.

Even if their quality was still what it once was, the point isn't about that. It's aboutn their nazi ways and fucked up treatment of the little man.

I'm glad your drills are holding up, it sucks to fork out major dough only to find out you bought some junk.

Just a little FYI for anyone why was interested in the CORE issue at stake here, the eBay VeRO program.

In my searching, I discovered "Tabberone" and the fight theiy were spearheading at the time against the CRAP eBay policies surrounding their VeRO program.

Well, I go do a search, and look what I find:

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y04/m07/i12/s01

Although it is a settlement, it is a step in the direction of the fact that there IS a problem with the eBay VeRO program and the ability of IPO's to shut down auctions (like what happened to mine) without giving cause or consideration to to the little guy.

Tabberone is currently taking legal action against Dunkin Donuts, MGA Entertainment and E! Television over auction shutdowns through VeRO.

I want to see the auction that Dunkin Donuts had a problem with!:laughing:

One used 15" inner tube good condition item #89356743

Your auction listing showed a torus-shaped inner tube. Such torus-shaped objects violates Dunkin' Donuts torus-shaped trademark. (See, e.g., Trademark Registration No. 2,348,050 at http://www.uspto.gov.) Accordingly, we requested termination of your auction.

Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or comments.

Sincerely,
Jon "gotta make the donuts" Luther C.E.O.

Take a magic marker and write "DeWalt" on the side and put it back on there lol.

Take a magic marker and write "DeWalt" on the side and put it back on there lol.

If you had read the WHOLE THREAD (got a week? :p ) you would know the drill was re-listed and sold already :p

:grinpimp:

More info on Tabberone suits.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.html

More info on Tabberone suits.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.html

Great read. Wonder how long it will take Ebay to realise the Vero system is flawed. Actually, they probably know already. Question is will they do something about it?

lets boycot Dewalt

Great read. Wonder how long it will take Ebay to realise the Vero system is flawed. Actually, they probably know already. Question is will they do something about it?

Do some searching around the web - believe me, eBay is WELL aware of the nightmare that is VeRO. And I understand that part of the problem is they are stuck between a rock and a hard place... So they are taking the "easy" way out by letting the "big guy" call out the "little guys" because they know that I am not gonna sue over a $3 drill, and the ones like Tabberone are few and far between.

Do some searching around the web - believe me, eBay is WELL aware of the nightmare that is VeRO. And I understand that part of the problem is they are stuck between a rock and a hard place... So they are taking the "easy" way out by letting the "big guy" call out the "little guys" because they know that I am not gonna sue over a $3 drill, and the ones like Tabberone are few and far between.

The Taberrone husband or wife must be a lawyer, because there is no way in hell the $1000 and $500 settlements they get from each lawsuit would cover the costs of filing and fees etc.

Man what a saga. First the detective work finding the personal info, then a SATELLITE picture of his home :laughing: But that Dewalt assualt rifle, that got my sides aching. Best chit-chat thread evar! :cool2:

lets boycot Dewalt

Gee, what a novel idea!!!

BTT cause this should be in the classics section

Ok, there is no need for you people to be insulting.

Neither my husband or I are lawyers. Don't wanna be.

It costs $150 to file suit in federal court.

Dunkin' Donuts or Allied Domecq who owns them had a problem with me selling a 1 lb bag of unopened coffee. That had 6 more months until the expiration date.

MGA has heartburn over the use of their licensed appliques. Of course since the suit was filed they've released over 10 different fabrics.

The biggest problem on eBay right now is the fact that they stopped verifying that the person claiming infringement was actually the rights holder. VeRO is becoming a way for sellers to eliminate their competition.

Ok, there is no need for you people to be insulting.

Neither my husband or I are lawyers. Don't wanna be.

It costs $150 to file suit in federal court.

Dunkin' Donuts or Allied Domecq who owns them had a problem with me selling a 1 lb bag of unopened coffee. That had 6 more months until the expiration date.

MGA has heartburn over the use of their licensed appliques. Of course since the suit was filed they've released over 10 different fabrics.

The biggest problem on eBay right now is the fact that they stopped verifying that the person claiming infringement was actually the rights holder. VeRO is becoming a way for sellers to eliminate their competition.


wow, I never thought you would make it over here to see my little saga :eek:

Anyone who is bagging on tabberone can bite me. They are fighting the good fight here, and to start dogging on them is really low. Who else here has the gonads to step up and fight the "big guy"?

I am still pissed that I - just an average consumer - boought a product, then decided to re-sell it on eBay and some magical VeRO member gets to step in and shut me down without any checks or balances AT ALL.

The Drama Drill is still running strong. :D I did manage to smoke it (again) last night, though - apparently it doesn't like drilling 1/2" holes. :rolleyes: Works OK for light duty work though.

- Chris

The Drama Drill is still running strong. :D I did manage to smoke it (again) last night, though - apparently it doesn't like drilling 1/2" holes. :rolleyes: Works OK for light duty work though.

- Chris

Hmm.. Maybe its a DeWalt afterall. :laughing:

The Drama Drill is still running strong. :D I did manage to smoke it (again) last night, though - apparently it doesn't like drilling 1/2" holes. :rolleyes: Works OK for light duty work though.

- Chris

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA... so how does it *sound*?

Mine sprisingly still works too even though it's vented some of the magic smoke on several occasions, it must come pre-loaded with plenty of extra..:laughing:
My co-worker used it for almost 3 hours straight and wore out a wire wheel removing some grafitti from the sidewalk and it still works. :eek:

Ok, there is no need for you people to be insulting.

Neither my husband or I are lawyers. Don't wanna be.

It costs $150 to file suit in federal court.

Dunkin' Donuts or Allied Domecq who owns them had a problem with me selling a 1 lb bag of unopened coffee. That had 6 more months until the expiration date.

MGA has heartburn over the use of their licensed appliques. Of course since the suit was filed they've released over 10 different fabrics.

The biggest problem on Ebay right now is the fact that they stopped verifying that the person claiming infringement was actually the rights holder. VeRO is becoming a way for sellers to eliminate their competition.

I will be second in line behind DRM and applaud your efforts. Thanks for stopping by and more power to you.

Somebody has to slay the giant.

If I had more time I'd throw a few things on E-bay and let one of the 50 attorney's I work for fight it out. But they don't seem to be interested in fighting a corporate battle. :(

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA... so how does it *sound*?

Sounds fine when it's not stuck in the no man's land between the hammer drill and normal drill settings. Under heavier loads the switch likes to pop out, resulting in the nasty grinding that I'm sure you're familiar w/. ;) I've been meaning to epoxy the switch in place and see if that helps.

In addition, the trigger only works when it wants to. On the upside, at least the drill has character. :laughing:

- Chris

Ya know I have many cheap used yellow and black tools one nice lil grinder that just might have to make its way to ebay end of this week

so thats it? no closure??

Closure is that many times the big company pushes around the little guy even when the comp. is in the wrong. And they get away with it. That's life.

no more emails have been exchanged between drm/dewalt? :confused: