So DeWalt tells eBay to pull one of my auctions...

[DRM]

Yup - that dang cheapo drill :p

Here is the offending drill:
http://www.4x4spot.com/images/fs/drill2.jpg


And here is why:

Thank you for your email of January 8, 2004.

Your auction listing showed a drill with a yellow and black color scheme. Such color scheme violates DeWalt's yellow/black color trademark. (See, e.g., Trademark Registration No. 2,348,050 at http://www.uspto.gov.) Accordingly, we requested termination of your auction.

Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or comments.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.


What kind of crap is that?

I understand they need to protect their product image, but this is pretty stupid :rolleyes:

[Joe_W]

Yes it is stupid


Now spray paint the handle red and re-list :D

[Del taco]

wow.

[Grandpa Jeep]

Is it a DeWalt drill? If not, I assume you didn't make the drill. WTF do they expect you to do with it? They ought to be going after the manufacturer, not some poor smuck that ended up with one.

[obex26]

That is pathetic of dewalt. Your what $25 dollar drill is cutting into their revenues. yea whatever. I would report her to her supervisors for surfing the net on company time or find out what her job description entails.

[DRM]

Originally posted by Joe_W
Yes it is stupid


Now spray paint the handle red and re-list :D


It is tempting.... :p


I sent an email back to DeWalt asking for clarification .... Such as the fact that they state a "yellow and black color scheme" when this one clearly has a yellow, ORANGE, and black color scheme"...

[mike]

hahah I woulda sent one back saying "look, Im just looking to get rid of this thing I have no use for. Perhaps you should contact the manufacturer rather than a consumer. "

[Roxywheels]

That thing looks orange to me! I would never look at it and think *ohhhhh...DeWalt* :rolleyes: :roxy:

[Screwzer]

Wierd. I assume you didn't manufacture the drill, so WTF gives? Are you importing them or just trying to sell off a POS Christmas gift?

Yeah, tool manufacturers get really touchy about product color. Milwalkee and Makita have been known to be just as aggressive.

Not sure if any suits have won in court yet.

[Dog House]

Just have Chem chop it a different color and then post a disclaimer. ;)

[Joe_W]

Originally posted by obex26
That is pathetic of dewalt. Your what $25 dollar drill is cutting into their revenues. yea whatever. I would report her to her supervisors for surfing the net on company time or find out what her job description entails.

I'm guessing that is her job.

A while ago I put up some copies of Windows NT that I had on Ebay. They were in original shrink-wrap, with CoA's and everything. It was yanked cause MS claimed it was pirated software :rolleyes:

I need the "surf Ebay" job :)

[DRM]

Originally posted by obex26
That is pathetic of dewalt. Your what $25 dollar drill is cutting into their revenues. yea whatever. I would report her to her supervisors for surfing the net on company time or find out what her job description entails.


It is actually an entire system set up within eBay to prevent fraud... "VeRO"


And it is a reasonable system, but in this case is pretty stupid.


I have noticed in searching eBay there are TONS of these same drills, but all in BLUE... guess I was not "in the know" that DeWalt would crack down like this... fawkers :mad3:


I may wait a month and re-list showing the blue ones, then in text "color may vary from pictured item" :p

[Roxywheels]

Ohh...and I want that person's job that browses the internet looking for copyright infringement on places like Ebay! :D :roxy:

[Joe_W]

Originally posted by Dog House
Just have Chem chop it a different color and then post a disclaimer. ;)

Thats actually a pretty fawking good idea :D

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

It really sucks when someone irrationally interferes with your life and tries to control how you do things doesn't it:flipoff2:


Good thing you'd never be prone to such tendencies.;)

[Chemical442]

Originally posted by Joe_W
Yes it is stupid


Now spray paint the handle red and re-list :D




Then you would have Caterpillar on your ass. :laughing:

[rckwrangler]

Repost it and and say in the add and title that it's NOT a Dewault drill

[Del taco]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your email of January 8, 2004.

Your auction listing showed a drill with a yellow and black color scheme. Such color scheme violates DeWalt's yellow/black color trademark. (See, e.g., Trademark Registration No. 2,348,050 at http://www.uspto.gov.) Accordingly, we requested termination of your auction.

Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or comments.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I wonder of GOD got a cease and desist on Bees and Hornets.

[Del taco]

"ten bucks or that drill and the cost of shipping to 44224" says that instruction sheet is writtin in ENGRISH (http://www.engrish.com)
:D

[broncorob]

Just put the pic up in black and white

[ChiXJeff]

HA! Ya rat fawkin' bastages!

David, you *REALLY* need to pull up the trademark registration as pointed to in Dewalt's original email. It clearly states:

The mark consists of a two color scheme using yellow and black wherein the color yellow is applied to the housing and handle and the color black is applied to the trigger. The dotted outline of the goods is intended to show the position of the mark and is not part of the mark. The drawing is lined for the color yellow and the color black is represented in solid coloring.

Seems to me that the trigger is orange in your picture.

ChiXJeff

[LandCroozer]

Originally posted by broncorob
Just put the pic up in black and white

Damn, beat me to it. Why not?

-t

[billjohn]

try this one...

[tdhanson]

I'd tell Dewalt to go jump off a cliff... Actually, I'd explain that it is not a Dewalt drill, but you and everyone you know is going to sell their Dewalt items on eBay so they can buy some quality Milwaukee (red handles) stuff.

I can see name, emblem, design features, and such as being trademark items, but simple color? I guess Ford should have trademarked black as a color so noone can buy a black Toyota or Chevy?

Tracy

[billjohn]

or this...
Pic down below... hit the button too fast.

[billjohn]

here it is...

[Jesse Angel]

Isn't that one above the old Black and Decker colors??

[HeyBeerMan]

Originally posted by Roxywheels
Ohh...and I want that person's job that browses the internet looking for copyright infringement on places like Ebay! :D :roxy:

You can have E-bay. I got the porn industry covered.


beerman

[CronusTRD]

Originally posted by Roxywheels
Ohh...and I want that person's job that browses the internet looking for copyright infringement on places like Ebay! :D :roxy:

thats part of my job.

it sucks...trust me...i always buy too much shit on ebay cuz of it.

[SilverZuk]

yep, i can see their point - looks just like a dewalt:rolleyes:

[ForestCam]

Friend of mine got popped for selling MLK pencils!!!! She actually sells about $50-$100 in assorted pencils a week on ebay and in her assortemnt of bulk pencils she had some MLK pencils so she loisted them. About 3 days into the auction she gets a letter from ebay telling her that they removed the listing for those pencils because someone from the MLK foundation/estate had contacted them about a copywrite infringement over a fawking $2 for 10 pencils listing!:rolleyes:

[jht3]

why'd you buy this chinese pos in the first place?

[whatever]

I had the same fun but from Milwaukee Tools:rolleyes: I had a cordless Dewalt sawzall and used the term "sawzall" they didn't pull my auction they had their lawyers send me a nasty letter saying re-word it or your goin to court!:flipoff:

[DRM]

Got several replies back from that hoser at DeWalt... they are sticking to their guns.

Not like I am gonna be able to do anything about it, guess this one gets sold at an actual garage sale int he spring :shaking:

I did fire back an email pointing out the trademark language - let's see what they say to that (re: black trigger vs. orange trigger)

[DRM]

Originally posted by jht3
why'd you buy this chinese pos in the first place?

Search ChitChat and you can find out for yourself :p

[Joe_W]

Originally posted by DRM
Got several replies back from that hoser at DeWalt... they are sticking to their guns.

Not like I am gonna be able to do anything about it, guess this one gets sold at an actual garage sale int he spring :shaking:

I did fire back an email pointing out the trademark language - let's see what they say to that (re: black trigger vs. orange trigger)

They know that they can (most likely) bully you in terms of time and legal threats. They know full well that it wouldn't stand up in court but they also know you will never go that far

[DRM]

Originally posted by Joe_W


They know that they can (most likely) bully you in terms of time and legal threats. They know full well that it wouldn't stand up in court but they also know you will never go that far


You know... this is one of those time I wish I were independantly LOADED... because I just cranky and arguementative enough I WOULD fight them in cour over something this stupid if I had the resources :D:D:D

[MattS]

Originally posted by DRM
Got several replies back from that hoser at DeWalt... they are sticking to their guns.

Not like I am gonna be able to do anything about it, guess this one gets sold at an actual garage sale int he spring :shaking:

I did fire back an email pointing out the trademark language - let's see what they say to that (re: black trigger vs. orange trigger)

E-mail them back and tell them to fawk off and read their own damn trademark. You are not in ANY violation. Can't they read.

Trademark:

Goods and Services IC 007. US 013 019 021 023 031 034 035. G & S: power tools, namely, drills. FIRST USE: 19910831. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910831
Mark Drawing Code (2) DESIGN ONLY
Design Search Code 140507 290608 290611
Serial Number 75446165
Filing Date March 6, 1998
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition November 10, 1998
Registration Number 2348050
Registration Date May 9, 2000
Owner (REGISTRANT) Black & Decker Corporation, The CORPORATION MARYLAND 701 E. Joppa Road Towson MARYLAND 21286
Attorney of Record KEITH A VOGT
Description of Mark The mark consists of a two color scheme using yellow and black wherein the color yellow is applied to the housing and handle and the color black is applied to the trigger. The dotted outline of the goods is intended to show the position of the mark and is not part of the mark. The drawing is lined for the color yellow and the color black is represented in solid coloring.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

[DRM]

I *did* email them Matt, waiting for a reply...


But what am I gonna do?

[The Joker]

Originally posted by DRM
because I just cranky and arguementative enough :D:D:D

What do you mean enough :confused: I thought you were the poster boy for "cranky and arguementative". :flipoff2:

[madmarx]

Originally posted by DRM
I *did* email them Matt, waiting for a reply...


But what am I gonna do?

Is there anyway you can sue them in small claims court for something. You can file for a few dollars, and it would at least cost them more than that. I mean if that guy can sue the cable company for making tv "adictive" and making his wife fat, you should be able to sue dewalt for something..

[R O]

Originally posted by DRM
I *did* email them Matt, waiting for a reply...


But what am I gonna do?


I'd be more than happy to fire off some e-mails to them if you'd like.

[Chaz Murray]

Originally posted by madmarx


Is there anyway you can sue them in small claims court for something. You can file for a few dollars, and it would at least cost them more than that. I mean if that guy can sue the cable company for making tv "adictive" and making his wife fat, you should be able to sue dewalt for something..

thats exactly why the country is as fawked up as it is...suein people over stupid shit :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by whatever
I had the same fun but from Milwaukee Tools:rolleyes: I had a cordless Dewalt sawzall and used the term "sawzall" they didn't pull my auction they had their lawyers send me a nasty letter saying re-word it or your goin to court!:flipoff:

That's a different story...... the term "Sawzall" is a trademarked term of Milwaukee for their line of reciprocating saws. It's like "Xerox", "Kleenex", etc. They *WILL* lose trademark protection if they fail to pursue infringements. Kimberly-Clarke, the owners of the "Kleenex" trademarks, spends a ton of time and money ensuring that the competitors aren't using the term.

I'd like to see this dragged into court, though. The Dewalt trademark description is deliberately vague and far too wide-ranging in my opinion.

ChiXJeff

[DRM]

I think I am just gonna sign it and raffle it off here on PBB :p

[Spaceman]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff


I'd like to see this dragged into court, though. The Dewalt trademark description is deliberately vague and far too wide-ranging in my opinion.

ChiXJeff

What do you mean. The color 'Yellow' is perfectly clear to me :rolleyes: No shades there to interpret...yeah, right :D

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by DRM
I think I am just gonna sign it and raffle it off here on PBB :p


Maybe I'll win then I could have two POS DeWalt colored drills.:laughing:

[Chemical442]

David, just make the drill photo greyscale...:confused:

[joefear7]

I say fight DeWalt on it! I would! see if some lawyer on here will give you alittle advice. and heres the other thing like you said your not the manufactuer and so im thinking buy selling the drill as used (not a distributer either) would mean that you were brakeing no laws. I say sew them in small claims if you have to they would have to spend way more time and money on that than you would.

[B4Wheeler]

Originally posted by CronusTRD


thats part of my job.

it sucks...trust me...i always buy too much shit on ebay cuz of it.
Hi-Jack
Where do you work. I am in Maryland and looking for work. I am a former Unix Admin.
Un-Hi-Jack

[ALF]

What is interesting is the trademark belongs to Black & Decker according to the TESS web site. I don't recall B&D owning DeWalt.


alf

[CronusTRD]

Originally posted by B4Wheeler

Hi-Jack
Where do you work. I am in Maryland and looking for work. I am a former Unix Admin.
Un-Hi-Jack

Right now I'm finishing school in May and working part time for some schmucky catalog company doing web/computer work. I'm stuck on the eastern shore so a decent job around here is next to none. Mostly I fix the copier by my desk. I'm basically killing time for my security clearance to come in for the Department of Defense.

check out www.directemployers.com

IBM, Boeing, Lockheed martin are all hiring as well as a bunch of lower scale companies.

[MattS]

I would show E-bay the lanuguage in the trademark and tell them to allow you to relist it.

[DRM]

Originally posted by MattS
I would show E-bay the lanuguage in the trademark and tell them to allow you to relist it.


You mean, by firing off an email to eBay like this?

To Whom it May Concern,

On 1/8/04 I received an email that one of my auctions (Item #2371674781 1/2 Inch Impact Hamer Drill - NEW!!!)was removed under the VeRO proceedings by an intellectual rights property owner.

I then contacted DeWalt (the organization that had my auction cancelled) and requested a reason why. The following reason is what I was given in an email from Adan Ayala, their representative:

"Your auction listing showed a drill with a yellow and black color scheme. Such color scheme violates DeWalt's yellow/black color trademark. (See, e.g., Trademark Registration No. 2,348,050 at http://www.uspto.gov.) Accordingly, we requested termination of your auction."

Searching the link DeWalt gave, I was able to find the trademark information I was allegedly in violation of:

"Description of Mark The mark consists of a two color scheme using yellow and black wherein the color yellow is applied to the housing and handle and the color black is applied to the trigger. The dotted outline of the goods is intended to show the position of the mark and is not part of the mark. The drawing is lined for the color yellow and the color black is represented in solid coloring."
(Found at: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=35qt32.2.3 )

Here is a link to the actual item (my own picture) I was attempting to sell:
http://www.4x4spot.com/images/fs/drill2.jpg

As you can see, the text of the trademark SPECIFICALLY mentions:
"The mark consists of a two color scheme using yellow and black wherein the color yellow is applied to the housing and handle and the color black is applied to the trigger."

The drill I am selling clearly has an orange trigger, and is therefore not an infringement of the trademark shown.

I understand the reason for the VeRO program, and applaud organizations for trying to protect consumers against fraudulent items. However, my auction (#2371674781 1/2 Inch Impact Hamer Drill - NEW!!!) was clearly worded and in no way could have been seen as an attempt to pass this item off as a DeWalt product. And I repeat - the trademark language shows that this item does NOT infringe on the mark at all.

Because of this, I expect eBay to re-instate my auction, and take the necessary measures towards DeWalt for filing a fraudulent claim against my auction under eBay VeRO proceedings.

Please let me know what action you intend to take.

Thank You,
David Moore



:D

[LAME]

Originally posted by ALF
What is interesting is the trademark belongs to Black & Decker according to the TESS web site. I don't recall B&D owning DeWalt.


alf

That happened about 2-3 years ago.

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by Chaz Murray


thats exactly why the country is as fawked up as it is...suein people over stupid shit :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And a company coming down on someone for selling a drill second hand, and getting their auction cancelled is ok? Specially when they had no legal right to?

David - I'de take it to your local small claims. Include attacks on your character, etc. to jack up any fees you can. It's not about money here, it's making them accountable for their illegal oppresive actions. IMO.

[R O]

this is a great thread,I wonder what e-bay will do?

[DRM]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


And a company coming down on someone for selling a drill second hand, and getting their auction cancelled is ok? Specially when they had no legal right to?

David - I'de take it to your local small claims. Include attacks on your character, etc. to jack up any fees you can. It's not about money here, it's making them accountable for their illegal oppresive actions. IMO.


That is exactly the way I see it too...

eBay says they will reply to mey email within 24 hours, and the guy from DeWalt has not gotten back to me yet after I told them I was not gonna just take this without exploring my options... we'll see where it goes from here :)


At the least - as a long time DeWalt tool owner and user, I am VERY disappointed and insulted at being the target of this "bullying" tactic.

Maybe I should start a web page with daily updates about the saga, and all of you can send the link to everybody you know and do like all those people with new car "lemon's" do :laughing:

[Spaceman]

Originally posted by DRM



Maybe I should start a web page with daily updates about the saga, and all of you can send the link to everybody you know and do like all those people with new car "lemon's" do :laughing:

:evil: I say do it. Let's see how wide a net you can cast!

[DRM]

Their latest reply:

The description and/or drawings on the trademark registration are examples only, and do not limit the scope of the mark. Otherwise, Coca-Cola could not prevent someone from selling Koka-Kola.

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.

Certainly, it is your prerogative to complain to eBay. But be forewarned that if you relist your item, we will continue to request termination, which could ultimately result in suspension of your ebay account.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

[Grandpa Jeep]

How long has DeWalt had that color scheme anyway? My Dad used to have a DeWalt Radial arm saw 25+ years ago. Not sure how old it was, but it was green. Not a spec of yellow on it.

[Damage, Inc.]

This is the biggest crock of shit I've read about in a LONG time. Fuck Dewalt!! :mad:

[rockota]

I still don't understand why they are going after a consumer and NOT the manufacturer of said drill.. :confused:

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by DRM

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.


Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

time to request case numbers.

[ChevyGal]

Some companies are gay. Our offroad club had to change the name of our club. Reason being, Big Dog Sportswear. The club was called Nor Cal Big Dawgs. They sent our president (gokartergo) some bs junk about how we copied their name blah blah blah. It was looked into by some lawyers, and decided it was easier to change the name, then to play some stupid game with Big Dogs Idiotwear (because financially we didn't want to spend that kind of money, or had it). So now we are just Nor Cal Offroad. Talk about them being lame. I hope they are happy though. I don't think anyone in our club will ever buy anything of theirs again. I tell everyone I can to not buy from them and why. Hope it was worth it for them losing cutomers... as it is now, their stuff is not in style anymore really, so I think they can't afford to lose anyone when it comes down to it... retards... :shaking:

[Grandpa Jeep]

Originally posted by rockota
I still don't understand why they are going after a consumer and NOT the manufacturer of said drill.. :confused:

Me neither, or at least a retailer. I would think they'd be after DRM to tear apart the drill and find out who made it (or perhaps buy it themselves) and go after them. Canceling David's auction does nothing to stop the production of knockoff drills. Nor does it even prevent him from selling it somewhere besides eBay. seems very frivilous to me.

[madmarx]

Originally posted by DRM
Their latest reply:

The description and/or drawings on the trademark registration are examples only, and do not limit the scope of the mark. Otherwise, Coca-Cola could not prevent someone from selling Koka-Kola.

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.

Certainly, it is your prerogative to complain to eBay. But be forewarned that if you relist your item, we will continue to request termination, which could ultimately result in suspension of your ebay account.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Sounds to me like you need to name this fawktard PERSONALLY in your small claims case. Bring'em to TN and go Deliverance on 'em....:idea: :grinpimp: :evil:

[braxton357]

Originally posted by Damage, Inc.
This is the biggest crock of shit I've read about in a LONG time. Fuck Dewalt!! :mad:

Wow..no joke. After that last email, fuck dewalt. That drill isn't even the same shade of yellow. Their tools are starting to become just as shitty as all the other cheapos anymore anyway. Maybe its the B&D influence

[Travis Waldher]

Is there anything illegal about shipping the drill to them in some VERY secure packaging COD so they can find out who is making the knock offs? :p

[ChiXJeff]

On the one hand, the owner of a trademark has to diligently protect it. They can't let the fringe cases go, that can actually lose them the trademark.

On the other hand, I think they've gone overboard.

On further reflection, I don't think you'll be able to file in Small Claims Court. That's for clear cases of small monetary issues. Unless you can *DIRECTLY* show that Dewalt owes you money, I suspect the Court will reject the claim.

I'd really like to see this challenged by someone with deep pockets. Dewalt will be chasing anyone with vaguely yellow drills and dark contrasting parts near the trigger.

ChiXJeff

[Oxjockey]

Unfortunately, they're right. Matt was confusing patent and trademark law.

What would I do? I don't know, they have the resources to fire off an email every day if they want, and eBay will only take so much of it. They are the owner of the trademark. Take it to court, if you want, but you'll need to prove that it's dissimilar enough not to confuse a reasonable person. (Remember that's based on an even cross section of society, not drill carrying, ratchet slinging people like us)

Just some thoughts. I would think about approaching the manufacturer or retailer and sueing THEM for selling you something that's not a DeWalt...hey, if it's similar enough to protect the trademark, it's reasonable to assume that you were deceived into buying this product.

Bryan

[NoJoke]

Go to photochop, remove the color and list it in B&W. But be SURE to list it as a DeWilt :flipoff2:

http://members.cox.net/ned946/drill2.jpg

[jasonmt]

Originally posted by DRM

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

How nice of Dewalt to be concerned that I might drink a bottle of 151 and confuse them. If I already didn't buy their crappy tools this thread might have convinced me.

http://www.4x4spot.com/images/fs/drill2.jpg

[LAME]

DRM, make the web page:D Then in a week send dewalt the number of hits the site has got;)

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by LAME
DRM, make the web page:D Then in a week send dewalt the number of hits the site has got;)

Better yet, sell your drill on that web page, and offer to help other sell theirs as well, by listing it there.

When dewalt sends you a nasty gram, tell them fuck you proove it.

They take you to court, you more than likely would win, counter sue for financial losses, etc.

again, i'de ask them for case history. Call their bluff.

[Haole]

I was just getting ready to ask about this. Sorry to hear that you guys had to choose this course. I know I won't buy any of their products.

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
Some companies are gay. Our offroad club had to change the name of our club. Reason being, Big Dog Sportswear. The club was called Nor Cal Big Dawgs. They sent our president (gokartergo) some bs junk about how we copied their name blah blah blah. It was looked into by some lawyers, and decided it was easier to change the name, then to play some stupid game with Big Dogs Idiotwear (because financially we didn't want to spend that kind of money, or had it). So now we are just Nor Cal Offroad. Talk about them being lame. I hope they are happy though. I don't think anyone in our club will ever buy anything of theirs again. I tell everyone I can to not buy from them and why. Hope it was worth it for them losing cutomers... as it is now, their stuff is not in style anymore really, so I think they can't afford to lose anyone when it comes down to it... retards... :shaking:

[Haole]

What a :rainbow: response. I'll put Dewalt on my do not buy list now.

Originally posted by DRM
Their latest reply:

The description and/or drawings on the trademark registration are examples only, and do not limit the scope of the mark. Otherwise, Coca-Cola could not prevent someone from selling Koka-Kola.

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.

Certainly, it is your prerogative to complain to eBay. But be forewarned that if you relist your item, we will continue to request termination, which could ultimately result in suspension of your ebay account.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

[barraza]

Originally posted by DRM
Their latest reply:

The description and/or drawings on the trademark registration are examples only, and do not limit the scope of the mark. Otherwise, Coca-Cola could not prevent someone from selling Koka-Kola.

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.

Certainly, it is your prerogative to complain to eBay. But be forewarned that if you relist your item, we will continue to request termination, which could ultimately result in suspension of your ebay account.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Sorry, but this guy is EXACTLY right. You'll lose. Happens all the time and don't think they aren't going after anyone they can find that might be associated. About the only thing to trademark on dewalt products is the color and they spend a lot of money promoting it. An undefended trademark will become undefendable. Manufacturers have no choice. Like it or not, adds on Ebay that interfere with a trademark are direct assults against the manufacturer and they have every right to defend themselves. Has nothing to do with your relative size to theirs or the evil "Big Companies" out to get regular little guys. :rolleyes:
Surprised you would even try to make an argument, as you usually are well researched on subjects you argue about.

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Originally posted by DRM
What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

So? It's a used drill, of unspecified make. WTF does DeWalt care if somebody buys a used drill or not? Is every yellow tool I own that isn't DeWalt, infringing on DeWalt's color scheme? If a child's toy gun is yellow, to prevent it from being confused for a real gun by police, is that illegal too? Will Milwaukee get pissy over a red toy gun? Ryobi over a blue one?

Originally posted by ChiXJeff
On further reflection, I don't think you'll be able to file in Small Claims Court. That's for clear cases of small monetary issues. Unless you can *DIRECTLY* show that Dewalt owes you money, I suspect the Court will reject the claim.

DeWalt had his auction terminated. Unless they had his Ebay fees refunded, they *do* owe him money; he paid the Ebay fees on the condition that he would sell his item under the terms specified--they prevented him from selling said item, and I seriously doubt they got his fees refunded. So they probably owe him about $8.

Problem with small-claims would be, I doubt you could get any kind of punitive damages awarded; I seem to recall small claims being specifically limited to actual damages (so he stands to get his eight bucks back) but would likely be unable to set a usable precedent or get more than those fees.

This sounds a lot like when AT&T sued PayPal a while back for infringing on their patent on a way to transfer money. Dunno what the outcome was, but it basically amounted to that they were trying to enforce a trademark that was written so vaguely as to encompass anything.

Didn't some Australian patent the wheel (successfully!) a couple years ago?

Metallica sued some Canadian band a while back for the use of a particular chord... another laughable implication--that because Metallica has been using that chord for so long, it's theirs, and nobody else can use it.

Hey, DeWalt... the last drill of yours I bought... was returned... in under two hours. Got it home, found out it wasn't what it was claimed to be (I wanted a variable speed drill, not a stepped dual-speed drill) and back it went. Concentrate on making a better product, not on chasing Chinese drills of Ebay.

[DRM]

And his latest reply is actually productive, and the first one I am somewhat satisfied with:

Manufacturing, selling or offering for sale an infringing products are acts of trademark infringement. Certainly, if you tell us who manufactured or sold you the product, we will investigate them.

For the unit not infringe, it would need a different color scheme that was not confusingly similar to our yellow/black scheme. You can paint it green, for example. A disclaimer does not help and would make the likelihood of confusion worse, as people searching for a DeWalt drill will find your listing.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.



That settles it... if I decide to re-list it, I will just make the necessary changes and meet the requirements set forth by their own company representative :p

[DRM]

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
DeWalt had his auction terminated. Unless they had his Ebay fees refunded, they *do* owe him money; he paid the Ebay fees on the condition that he would sell his item under the terms specified--they prevented him from selling said item, and I seriously doubt they got his fees refunded.


FYI - eBay refunded all listing fees.

[madmarx]

Originally posted by DRM
And his latest reply is actually productive, and the first one I am somewhat satisfied with:

Manufacturing, selling or offering for sale an infringing products are acts of trademark infringement. Certainly, if you tell us who manufactured or sold you the product, we will investigate them.

For the unit not infringe, it would need a different color scheme that was not confusingly similar to our yellow/black scheme. You can paint it green, for example. A disclaimer does not help and would make the likelihood of confusion worse, as people searching for a DeWalt drill will find your listing.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.



That settles it... if I decide to re-list it, I will just make the necessary changes and meet the requirements set forth by their own company representative :p


And for $200, Dewalt can have a prime piece of evidence to go after the manufacturer of the trademark infringing drill...

[Damage, Inc.]

Based on numbnuts' reply, anything resembling a drill, whether shit-can spray-painted yellow or what, could be a copyright infringement.


Personally, I think you should send them this link. Make sure you include the current number of 'view' on the thread, just so they know. :D

[NoJoke]

Originally posted by Damage, Inc.
Based on numbnuts' reply, anything resembling a drill, whether shit-can spray-painted yellow or what, could be a copyright infringement.


Personally, I think you should send them this link. Make sure you include the current number of 'view' on the thread, just so they know. :D

Funny! Nobody here uses drills, do they? :flipoff2:

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper

DeWalt had his auction terminated. Unless they had his Ebay fees refunded, they *do* owe him money; he paid the Ebay fees on the condition that he would sell his item under the terms specified--they prevented him from selling said item, and I seriously doubt they got his fees refunded. So they probably owe him about $8.


David already addressed this, but it's Ebay that he'd be dealing with on the fees, not Dewalt. If he didn't get the fees back, he'd have to file a claim against Ebay. There have been no financial dealings with Dewalt in any of this. All of the money has been been between DRM and Ebay.

ChiXJeff

Edit: And it was Ebay who terminated the auction, not Dewalt. It was done at Dewalt's request on the basis of a trademark infringement. Dewalt cannot terminate an auction. Dewalt can request a termination, and may have to get a court order, but it's still Ebay holding the auction.

[Scott@Rockstomper]

I stand corrected on the fees. In that case, small-claims wouldn't even be the right forum to try it in.

Does DeWalt even know that probably a third of the drills at Harbor Freight are yellow?

Does Ryobi know that another third of the HF drills are blue?

My vote is with somebody else who suggested something along the same lines... if DeWalt wants to investigate who made the drill, they can purchase it from you, along with all its packaging material, documentation, etc., in an open Ebay auction, or at your "buy it now" price if you had one for the auction. Since they won't allow you to sell it to someone else, that seems fair.

[mike]

Originally posted by ALF
What is interesting is the trademark belongs to Black & Decker according to the TESS web site. I don't recall B&D owning DeWalt.


alf

They have for a very long time now.

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by Damage, Inc.
Personally, I think you should send them this link. Make sure you include the current number of 'view' on the thread, just so they know. :D

No kidding. My "reciprocating saw" :rolleyes: is DeWalt. It works ok on wood. I was going to use it to chop my fenders, but I think it would kill it. I have a big air compressor, so I will just buy something to use with it instead.

My drill was a DeWalt. My friends husband came over and did a bunch of work for me (putting in new lighting). He used the drill for a few hours, and it killed it (it was only a month old, with maybe 14-15 hours on it). I took it back to Home Depot. They didn't have anymore in stock, and I needed another one like, now. So they let me get another one. I got a Skill brand. I'm shocked how long it's lasted and the abuse it's taken. For a brand considered much cheaper, it's much better quality.

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by DRM
And his latest reply is actually productive, and the first one I am somewhat satisfied with:

Manufacturing, selling or offering for sale an infringing products are acts of trademark infringement. Certainly, if you tell us who manufactured or sold you the product, we will investigate them.

For the unit not infringe, it would need a different color scheme that was not confusingly similar to our yellow/black scheme. You can paint it green, for example. A disclaimer does not help and would make the likelihood of confusion worse, as people searching for a DeWalt drill will find your listing.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.



That settles it... if I decide to re-list it, I will just make the necessary changes and meet the requirements set forth by their own company representative :p

I'de still be an ass about it.

Repaint it, then make sure that the words "dewalt" show up as many times as possible in the ad so they keep finding it.

"This fine piece of machinery has recently been repainted green to comply with Dewalts lawyers and their threat of lawsuit. If you too would like to have this not a dewalt but claimed dewalt knock off, you can. but this non dewalt look alike thats been painted green today." :laughing:

[DRM]

Originally posted by madmarx



And for $200, Dewalt can have a prime piece of evidence to go after the manufacturer of the trademark infringing drill...

LOL :laughing:


I wish!


I did send him the link of the place I bought the drill from, and offered to get specific information from the drill or packaging if he is interested.

We'll see :p

[mike]

I own a whopping one piece of yellow and black equipment, a biscuit cutter. It's been ok, but after seeing this I think I shall go buy a lamello and be done with it and that brand based in baltimore.

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
I stand corrected on the fees. In that case, small-claims wouldn't even be the right forum to try it in.

Does DeWalt even know that probably a third of the drills at Harbor Freight are yellow?

Does Ryobi know that another third of the HF drills are blue?


That, sir, is the way to win the war!

Might be instructional to point out that as long as HF or anyone else is selling hardware like that, the trademark isn't enforceable. Heck, HF 45338-3VGA looks like it infringes even more.

ChiXJeff

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


No kidding. My "reciprocating saw" :rolleyes: is DeWalt. It works ok on wood. I was going to use it to chop my fenders, but I think it would kill it. I have a big air compressor, so I will just buy something to use with it instead.

My drill was a DeWalt. My friends husband came over and did a bunch of work for me (putting in new lighting). He used the drill for a few hours, and it killed it (it was only a month old, with maybe 14-15 hours on it). I took it back to Home Depot. They didn't have anymore in stock, and I needed another one like, now. So they let me get another one. I got a Skill brand. I'm shocked how long it's lasted and the abuse it's taken. For a brand considered much cheaper, it's much better quality.

I have a 12V cordless dewalt drill that is going on 5 years old now. It's been working like a champ. one charge it essentially drilled a 5/16" hole through 6" of mild steel.

Maybe they have gotten shittier over the years?

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


I have a 12V cordless dewalt drill that is going on 5 years old now. It's been working like a champ. one charge it essentially drilled a 5/16" hole through 6" of mild steel.

Maybe they have gotten shittier over the years?

These were all newer (in the last year and a half), and they really weren't very good quality. I had some really old DeWalt stuff that was my Grandfathers, and it was working fine, and did the job, heavy, IMO good quality. But then someone thought it was cool, and they stole it.

I didn't know B&D owned DeWalt. But now I can see they do, it speaks volumes. Everything B&D I have ever owned it a piece of crap. They probably have been making DeWalt more and more to this level of quality for awhile now.

[rockota]

Originally posted by DRM


LOL :laughing:


I wish!


I did send him the link of the place I bought the drill from, and offered to get specific information from the drill or packaging if he is interested.

We'll see :p

I'd send them link after link after link after link after.... you get the idea.... of drills for sale NEW that a: look like a drill and b: are yellow. Going after someone selling a USED drill that he/she did NOT manufacture is f'n stupid...

[whatever]

Originally posted by NoJoke
Go to photochop, remove the color and list it in B&W. But be SURE to list it as a DeWilt :flipoff2:

http://members.cox.net/ned946/drill2.jpg


This is it

[tdhanson]

I think you should post Adam at Dewalt's email address so we can all tell him we won't be buying any B&D or Dewalt items due to their inappropriate infringement on your ebay activities. Maybe they can see this is counterproductive...

Tracy

[Gen. Nonsense]

Dont paint it green...Hitachi might shut down your auction too :rolleyes:

[Oxjockey]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff


That, sir, is the way to win the war!

Might be instructional to point out that as long as HF or anyone else is selling hardware like that, the trademark isn't enforceable. Heck, HF 45338-3VGA looks like it infringes even more.

ChiXJeff

You're not wrong, but to fend off an attack from DeWalt®, you'd have to prove they were aware of it and not taking action on it.

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by Oxjockey


You're not wrong, but to fend off an attack from DeWalt®, you'd have to prove they were aware of it and not taking action on it.

True, true, true........ but if it lands in front of a judge, copies of anything that may infringe on Dewalt's trademark should be hauled in. I'd be asking the judge why they're trolling Ebay for the 1 and 2 unit infractions, and missing the big retailers?

ChiXJeff

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by Oxjockey


You're not wrong, but to fend off an attack from DeWalt®, you'd have to prove they were aware of it and not taking action on it.

If they haven't sent HF a letter already notifying them of the infringment. Then they are not taking action on it, therefore, they may have given up their rights already in some ways.

Why is dewalt picking on the little guy? Because HF might tell them to fawk off and go to court. Something Dewalt probably doesn't want to do. Maybe cause they can't afford it? I dunno.

[Travis03TJ]

Originally posted by DRM

I did send him the link of the place I bought the drill from, and offered to get specific information from the drill or packaging if he is interested.


You should have just sent him a link your re-listed (and spray painted) auction, and told him if he wanted the manufacturer he could BUY THE FAWKER!!

re-listed at a much higher price, of course

:flipoff2:

[Schly]

Hell, the ones at HF just might be no brand versions of the dewalt's, etc. :confused:

You just never know.

[Oxjockey]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


If they haven't sent HF a letter already notifying them of the infringment. Then they are not taking action on it, therefore, they may have given up their rights already in some ways.

Why is dewalt picking on the little guy? Because HF might tell them to fawk off and go to court. Something Dewalt probably doesn't want to do. Maybe cause they can't afford it? I dunno.

If they don't know about it, they're not obligated to take action on it. Are you sure they're aware that HF is selling them?

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by Oxjockey


If they don't know about it, they're not obligated to take action on it. Are you sure they're aware that HF is selling them?

Nope, not sure, but if they are trolling ebay, how could they have possibly missed harborfreight?

[adrunner]

Stupid. Unbelievable. Trying to think of something to say about this but can't even come up with anything cause it's so retarded.

[Whiplash]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


These were all newer (in the last year and a half), and they really weren't very good quality. I had some really old DeWalt stuff that was my Grandfathers, and it was working fine, and did the job, heavy, IMO good quality. But then someone thought it was cool, and they stole it.

I didn't know B&D owned DeWalt. But now I can see they do, it speaks volumes. Everything B&D I have ever owned it a piece of crap. They probably have been making DeWalt more and more to this level of quality for awhile now.

Dewalt used to be good till about 1.5 years ago. They used all steel gears and quality clutches and motors. The new stuff is as cheap as B&D, nylon gears and inferior parts.

[DEnd]

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper

Metallica sued some Canadian band a while back for the use of a particular chord... another laughable implication--that because Metallica has been using that chord for so long, it's theirs, and nobody else can use it.


No they didn't. That was a web site Hoax, Like the fake CNN Web Page that claimed swallowing sperm was linked to a lower risk in breast cancer.

[GloNDark]

That's it, I am going home, and spray painting my Ryobi dril yellow and listing it on EBAY. Finch fawkers, so if you had that for sale at a garage sale, could them come and shut down your garage sale because you are selling it? NO!

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by Gen. Nonsense
Dont paint it green...Hitachi might shut down your auction too :rolleyes:

No, get some JD green and two tone it!:laughing:

[2001tacoma]

that must mean my Craftsman toolbox is infringing on their trademark, it is yellow and black plastic.

My Strait-Line laser tape is also a yellow and black combination.

:confused:

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


If they haven't sent HF a letter already notifying them of the infringment. Then they are not taking action on it, therefore, they may have given up their rights already in some ways.

Why is dewalt picking on the little guy? Because HF might tell them to fawk off and go to court. Something Dewalt probably doesn't want to do. Maybe cause they can't afford it? I dunno.

Ox is right.... for Dewalt to start to lose their trademark protection, they have to both know that an infringing use is there AND fail to address it. I find it hard to believe that they're not checking the cheap tool outlets for this kind of thing. But you'd have to show that Dewalt knew about it first.

Originally posted by Schly
Hell, the ones at HF just might be no brand versions of the dewalt's, etc.

They're branded as Chicago Pneumatic. There's a little red in the pigment, making them barely orange. Black triggers, though.

ChiXJeff

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by 2001tacoma
that must mean my Craftsman toolbox is infringing on their trademark, it is yellow and black plastic.

My Strait-Line laser tape is also a yellow and black combination.

:confused:

Go back and read the trademark document. It pretty clearly states that the trademark is for a drill that is colored yellow and has a black trigger. Just a yellow and black color combination won't do it. Besides, then they're run afoul of Caterpillar and just about every other industrial equipment manufacturer out there.

ChiXJeff

[beerisgood]

hmmmmmmm, wonder if they would be this up in arms over me selling a real dewalt?

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by beerisgood
hmmmmmmm, wonder if they would be this up in arms over me selling a real dewalt?

Not unless you described it as a real tool!

ChiXJeff

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff


Go back and read the trademark document. It pretty clearly states that the trademark is for a drill that is colored yellow and has a black trigger. Just a yellow and black color combination won't do it. Besides, then they're run afoul of Caterpillar and just about every other industrial equipment manufacturer out there.

ChiXJeff

No basicaly what they're saying is ANY yellow drill (I'd be willing to bet they'd expand that to anything from a saw to a flashlight too) is a trademark infringement.:shaking:

[BJ On Roids]

Originally posted by HeyBeerMan


You can have E-bay. I got the porn industry covered.


beerman

I am helping you out there!

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by ForestCam


No basicaly what they're saying is ANY yellow drill (I'd be willing to bet they'd expand that to anything from a saw to a flashlight too) is a trademark infringement.:shaking:

Really? Where? From the trademark registration description:
The mark consists of a two color scheme using yellow and black wherein the color yellow is applied to the housing and handle and the color black is applied to the trigger. The dotted outline of the goods is intended to show the position of the mark and is not part of the mark. The drawing is lined for the color yellow and the color black is represented in solid coloring.

Looks to me that a black trigger figures prominently.

You have a point on not limiting it to drills, though.

ChiXJeff

[Paul Gagnon]

Originally posted by Jesse Angel
Isn't that one above the old Black and Decker colors??

Yes it is, I have an old Black and Decker that is the same mustardy sorta colour.

[SOCALXJ]

photochop anyone?

"where a bunch of diks" award maybe?

http://www.dewalt.com/us/images/events/mdc_photos/smith_check_pres.jpg

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by ChiXJeff


Really? Where? From the trademark registration description:


Looks to me that a black trigger figures prominently.

You have a point on not limiting it to drills, though.

ChiXJeff

Yes. From here.
Originally posted by DRM
Their latest reply:

The description and/or drawings on the trademark registration are examples only, and do not limit the scope of the mark. Otherwise, Coca-Cola could not prevent someone from selling Koka-Kola.

What matters in trademark law is not whether the infringing use is identical, but whether it is likely to be confused. Due to the similarity in color schemes, your drill is likely to be confused with the DeWalt drills.

Furthermore, even if the trademark registration were limited to the actual language, we have broad common law rights that are not limited in such manner and that have been upheld in court.

Certainly, it is your prerogative to complain to eBay. But be forewarned that if you relist your item, we will continue to request termination, which could ultimately result in suspension of your ebay account.

Adan Ayala
DeWalt Industrial Tool Co.

Guess you missed this post!:flipoff2:

[RedBullJeep]

I would simply reply to DeWalt that you will gladly trade this drill they seem to be so interested in for a DeWalt drill of similar specifications. If they believe this is a close match, it should be an even trade...shouldn't it? Tell him it's worth the hassle you've already been through...otherwise you'll simply re-list the drill as you've been advised by a patent and trademark lawyer that you were at a low risk of being prosecuted.
Just rile him a bit more...it's pretty rediculous, why not play just a little longer :D

Then, change the color in photoshop enough to remove worry and sell the item noting that the color will be different than the color in the picture.

[RedBullJeep]

Additionally, send him this picture saying CocaCola has a Red can trademark but that this competitor is different enough to not infringe on their trademark. Your drill is the same.

[bigNATE®]

I am doing a test to see if they will pull the auction, you only get one warning per item with the VERO program then next time you get suspended for a month

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
Additionally, send him this picture saying CocaCola has a Red can trademark but that this competitor is different enough to not infringe on their trademark. Your drill is the same.

Tell 'em about Sam's Choice too!!!!:D
http://www.salutetosoda.com/vanillasams.jpg

[RedBullJeep]

Originally posted by blackICE ®
I am doing a test to see if they will pull the auction, you only get one warning per item with the VERO program then next time you get suspended for a month

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696
The sign those guys are holding will get you in trouble for sure...:D

[Gen. Nonsense]

Originally posted by blackICE ®
I am doing a test to see if they will pull the auction, you only get one warning per item with the VERO program then next time you get suspended for a month

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696 That is some funnay $hit!!

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by Gen. Nonsense
That is some funnay $hit!!

Come on fawkers! I DARE YOU TO OUTBID ME!!!!:flipoff2:

[Haole]

Originally posted by blackICE ®


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696

:laughing:

[bigNATE®]

Originally posted by RedBullJeep

The sign those guys are holding will get you in trouble for sure...:D

taking bets:D

[Haole]

Originally posted by ForestCam


Come on fawkers! I DARE YOU TO OUTBID ME!!!!:flipoff2:

Suck it!

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by ForestCam


Come on fawkers! I DARE YOU TO OUTBID ME!!!!:flipoff2:

[Mr.Bean]It's a race! I'm winning! I'm winning![/Mr.Bean]

[Haole]

Damn you Steph. Yer going to pay for that. :flipoff2: (Up to 0.98 now)

[Haole]

Now, I'm paying for it.

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by eurobob
Damn you Steph. Yer going to pay for that. :flipoff2: (Up to 0.98 now)

This better be the best drill ever! Oh yeah, $9.92...... :p

[Roxywheels]

This is better than Silly's sock~o~stuff!! :laughing: :roxy:

[Haole]

Bastid!!

[Haole]

Originally posted by Roxywheels
This is better than Silly's sock~o~stuff!! :laughing: :roxy:

Only we know we're getting some Dewalt knockoff. (Until those Dewalt peebrains nix the deal.)

[ChevyGal]

It's mine, all mine! Buwhahahaha!
































I really need a hobby... :( :p

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


This better be the best drill ever! Oh yeah, $9.92...... :p

I'm gonna be pissed if it goes for over $13!:flipoff2:




I need to list my own "drill-o-drama"!:laughing:

[Haole]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
It's mine, all mine! Buwhahahaha!


I really need a hobby... :( :p

Damn!

[Haole]

Originally posted by ForestCam


I'm gonna be pissed if it goes for over $13!:flipoff2:




I need to list my own "drill-o-drama"!:laughing:

Fawking pussy. It's still at $12.31.

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by eurobob


Fawking pussy. It's still at $12.31.

Bring it! :D

[StomperZUK]

Originally posted by Schly
Hell, the ones at HF just might be no brand versions of the dewalt's, etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ChiXJeff
They're branded as Chicago Pneumatic. There's a little red in the pigment, making them barely orange. Black triggers, though.
ChiXJeff
Sorry ChiXjeff, you are mistaken. I hate to see incorrect info bandied about on the PBB, even if it is just chit-chat.:flipoff2:

Harbor Freight's chi-com electric tools are branded "Chicago Electric".
Their air tools are branded "Central Pneumatic".

"Chicago Pneumatic" brand air tools are actually pretty good quality stuff that is sold at many places other than H-F.

I still can't believe black&walt is pulling this $h!t.

[larryboy]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


Bring it! :D

what did you set your limit for? $1000?

[LandCroozer]

I love inside jokes. Best ever would be if somebody who never even heard of this board won it.

-t

[B4Wheeler]

Its up to 15.00 now. :D :D :eek:

[NoJoke]

Originally posted by blackICE ®
I am doing a test to see if they will pull the auction, you only get one warning per item with the VERO program then next time you get suspended for a month

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696



Hammerdrill $2
Photoshop to make the DeWalt lawyers happy: $750
Description: Priceless

"Color may vary from picture :flipoff2:"

[Haole]

I'm going to have me a hammer drill!

[camo]

fawk those idiots ....i'll play :flipoff2:

[ChevyGal]

I think Camo is getting in on this ebay action.... :D


Edit.... ah yes, I was right.... I think I can't afford to bid against him... ;)

[bigredjph]

$19.14 You people realize this thing was junk right ? I hope your buying it for memorabilia . :p Couple more buck's he will be turning a profit .
:eek:

Edit: $26

[camo]

whatta mean junk? looks just like a dewalt so it must be good :D

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by bigredjph
$19.14 You people realize this thing was junk right ? I hope your buying it for memorabilia . :p Couple more buck's he will be turning a profit .
:eek:

Do you have to pay double shipping?
DRM ships to Nate then Nate ships to you?
Or will DRM drop ship to your door?:laughing:

[braxton357]

Originally posted by ForestCam


Do you have to pay double shipping?
DRM ships to Nate then Nate ships to you?
Or will DRM drop ship to your door?:laughing:

DRM should get Nates auction pulled for using his pic. and for using the term "DRM":D

[Haole]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
I think Camo is getting in on this ebay action.... :D


Edit.... ah yes, I was right.... I think I can't afford to bid against him... ;)

Can't give up quite yet.

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by braxton357


DRM should get Nates auction pulled for using his pic. and for using the term "DRM":D

Wouldn't that have to be DRM® then?:D

[camo]

keep tryin fawker :flipoff2:


that should piss them off. knock offs selling for more then thier real ones at home depot :D

[Roxywheels]

Originally posted by ForestCam


Wouldn't that have to be DRM® then?:D

But could he be sued by someone using MRD, because its similar and may confuse people? :confused: :roxy:

[ForestCam]

Originally posted by Roxywheels


But could he be sued by someone using MRD, because its similar and may confuse people? :confused: :roxy:

Huh?:confused:

[Haole]

Originally posted by camo
keep tryin fawker :flipoff2:


that should piss them off. knock offs selling for more then thier real ones at home depot :D

Well, if you insist.

[Toy 4Runner Man]

This has to be one of the funniest things I have seen lately! The damm drill is up to $41!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by blackICE ®
I am doing a test to see if they will pull the auction, you only get one warning per item with the VERO program then next time you get suspended for a month

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2372038696

[krawlr]

$149 at homedepot.com, keep going.

[camo]

dang i lost it :( :flipoff2:


lets get that thing up to about $900 with a few hundred bids. that will really spin them out

[Haole]

Neener, neener, neener. You aren't bidding high enough. :p

[Krash80]

51$.......LMAO!

I would've told dewalt that i own a large construction company and have almost exclusively used dewalt tools for the last 20 years and that due to their persistence in cancelling your auctions that you will never buy one of their tools again, and will see to it that not a single one of their tools be used on any of your jobsites. Then make lots of copies of a letter explaining the entire situation and send it to every address you can find for dewalt. Eventually one of the letters may get to someone high up in the company who cares and they can see how bad little piddly crap like cancelling some 2$ (sorry, 51$ :D ) drill auction will hurt their company.

Their arrogant response to your emails has just made them lose me as a customer! Well...that and now that i know that black and decker owns them!

-Ron-

[camo]

mine again :D

[ChevyGal]

I think we'd be safe in bidding it up to a million. That pic of the DeWalt folks with the check pretty much is gonna get the auction closed. :laughing:

[seajeeper]

If you put a black trigger on a urine sample, would DeWalt claim infringement? Maybe you should sell THAT on E-Bay.

You guys are sick, twisted, and funnier than hell, probably sick enough to do it....

LMAO

[Krash80]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
I think we'd be safe in bidding it up to a million.

Until BlackICE holds you legally to the 1 million$ when you win the auction. :D

[Haole]

Originally posted by camo
mine again :D

Give me that, it's not a toy. :D

[B4Wheeler]

$152.50

This is crazy. And I thought it was high a $9.92.

[Paul Gagnon]

You guys rock!

I've saved both the ad and the bid history (at $152.50) for posterity. :D

[RedBullJeep]

When this closes, what will ebay charge BlackIce?

[ChevyGal]

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
When this closes, what will ebay charge BlackIce?

Nothing. It'll get pulled before it closes.

[bigredjph]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal


Nothing. It'll get pulled before it closes.

Or at least I hope it does says the girl with the $152.50 bid .
:p :D

[carnuck]

I have JUST the thing and places to post this! <G> De Walt is going to get the same asskicking that Mitsubishi got a couple months ago. I'm going to drop this on EVERY list I'm on (last time we hit 1,000,000 views. Can this site handle it?)

[Haole]

Originally posted by carnuck
I have JUST the thing and places to post this! <G> De Walt is going to get the same asskicking that Mitsubishi got a couple months ago. I'm going to drop this on EVERY list I'm on (last time we hit 1,000,000 views. Can this site handle it?)

Don't fucking do it. :mad: WE get enough dumbasses around here, we don't need every Tom, Dick and Fuckstain popping in to say they're here from www.gayfuckingwebsite.com. :rolleyes:

[APRILRAZZ]

HHHMMM do I need a not a DeWalt drill??

[Haole]

Originally posted by APRILRAZZ
HHHMMM do I need a not a DeWalt drill??

Yes, you do.;)

[APRILRAZZ]

It's mine now fawkers:flipoff2:

[DRM]

Jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick! :eek: :laughing:


I love you guys :wiping tear:


and yes, I will DROP SHIP, and even auutograph the damn thing :D

[obex26]

What about a thread with a voting poll of has dewalt/ b&d lost me as a customer. There are at least 5-6k of us on this site a day including the ones who don't say anything at all make it last a couple of days and then email that to dewalt. but make sure everyone puts their username from here so they get a realization of how many of us there are.

[beerisgood]

hhahahahahah, it's still going at $155.

[mantis]

Originally posted by obex26
What about a thread with a voting poll of has dewalt/ b&d lost me as a customer. There are at least 5-6k of us on this site a day including the ones who don't say anything at all make it last a couple of days and then email that to dewalt. but make sure everyone puts their username from here so they get a realization of how many of us there are.

I'm gone from their customer base... but that happened a few years ago when I started working about a mile from the Delta/Porter Cable outlet :flipoff2:

[Oxjockey]

Originally posted by obex26
What about a thread with a voting poll of has dewalt/ b&d lost me as a customer. There are at least 5-6k of us on this site a day including the ones who don't say anything at all make it last a couple of days and then email that to dewalt. but make sure everyone puts their username from here so they get a realization of how many of us there are.

They can't not defend their trademark. It's as simple as that. It's not pleasing to DRM or this board, but they have to.

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by Oxjockey


They can't not defend their trademark. It's as simple as that. It's not pleasing to DRM or this board, but they have to.

What trademark?

Do you have any idea how many yellow tools with BLACK power cables there are out there?

oh.. dewalt also started selling other black and yellow shit as well, so.. if they all of a sudden make a Dewalt toolbox, does that mean that those black and yellow toolboxes that have been on the market LONGER than them have just infringed on their trademark?

I don't think so, my bet would be that they go after the little man, vs. the companies because their case wouldn't hold up in a court of law. and ONLY a company would sue them over it, or a bored rich guy. So instead of having their "trademark" thrown in to the trash can, they do their best to "protect" it without it going to court. Meaning beat up the individual.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by obex26
What about a thread with a voting poll of has dewalt/ b&d lost me as a customer. There are at least 5-6k of us on this site a day including the ones who don't say anything at all make it last a couple of days and then email that to dewalt. but make sure everyone puts their username from here so they get a realization of how many of us there are.

How about this, start another site... like www.fawkdewalt.com or something... ok.. make it classier named than that.

Then start one of those polls, asking given how this company treats their customers or their potential customers, would you buy from them?

They will threaten with lawyers, but I don't think that would go anywhere. 1st ammendment comes in to play. Just make sure the site speaks only the truth and the facts.

Then send that off to every site you know, asking them to vote. If I was still a bachelor (aka still had money) I'de be doing this right now. As it is now, I can't afford teh website. LOL

[Grandpa Jeep]

Originally posted by Oxjockey


They can't not defend their trademark. It's as simple as that. It's not pleasing to DRM or this board, but they have to.

I agree they can and should defend their trademark, but not from a guy selling one drill on eBay. they should be going after the manufacturer not the consumer.

[obex26]

Well I figure this is DRM's decision to start this as a poll. I would support it. It appears he has gotten a major source of support from us here. The webside should be www.dewalttrademarksvsconsumers.com this way anytime someone pulls the word dewalt it would be a major contender in a search.

[Pazuzu]

Originally posted by Krash80


Until BlackICE holds you legally to the 1 million$ when you win the auction. :D

Hell, we'll just sue Nate for selling an object that he neither owns nor has possesion of :p

[LAME]

My dewalt grinder sucked ass. Plus the yellow got all greasy after a short time.

Now my Red grinder...thats a nice one:D

[DRM]

Guys, hold up now.. I do not "hate" DeWalt, and most certainly am not gonna waste my valuable (hey, stop laughing!) time trying to drag them down with some juvenile www.screwyoudewalt.com web site, or any of that other nonsense.

I just think it is unfair and sad that they are trying to bring the little guy down for something as silly as this.

But this *is* fun :D

[Oxjockey]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


What trademark?

Do you have any idea how many yellow tools with BLACK power cables there are out there?

oh.. dewalt also started selling other black and yellow shit as well, so.. if they all of a sudden make a Dewalt toolbox, does that mean that those black and yellow toolboxes that have been on the market LONGER than them have just infringed on their trademark?

I don't think so, my bet would be that they go after the little man, vs. the companies because their case wouldn't hold up in a court of law. and ONLY a company would sue them over it, or a bored rich guy. So instead of having their "trademark" thrown in to the trash can, they do their best to "protect" it without it going to court. Meaning beat up the individual.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Calm down...it's oooookaaaaaaay.

What they're saying is that this knockoff drill can be confused with their drill, which is clearly trademarked. Should they be going after the seller? Poor little DRM, who's now screwed? Well, yes and no. I agree that one guy selling one used drill on eBay should be fine, but they can't just let it go. If they don't (try to) enforce their trademark with DRM, then they lose the ability to try it anywhere else.

Compare the two drill cases, they're almost the same color. Any reasonable person may get the two confused. Reasonable being say, 6 women and 6 men of average mechanical ability.

Bring it to court, go ahead. I'll send $5 into a general legal fund to watch this go to the federal courts. Speculating on what they're doing with other vendors or manufacturers is just that, speculation and hearsay is not permissable as proof.

Just some thoughts.

[NoJoke]

NOOOOOO!

"Invalid Item
The item you requested (2372038696) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available."

Damn, and I WANTED that drill! It's famous!

[DRM]

The reply I got from eBay's VeRO team this morning


(Summary if you are too lazy to read it all: we are taking DeWalt word on this because they signed a piece of paper *promising* not to lie to us about this)



Hello David,

Thank you for writing to eBay with your concerns. We understand that
this can be a frustrating situation.

Much like the newspaper classifieds, eBay has not inspected the item you
listed. Nor does eBay have enough information about your item to make
any judgment as to whether your item is authorized. Due to these
circumstances we are not in a position to determine whether the item you
listed is authorized or legal. We removed your listing based upon a
demand from a Verified Rights Owner (DeWalt Industrial Tool Co. and The
Black & Decker Corporation) that substantially complied with federal
law.

When a VeRO member contacts us to remove a listing, they are required to
sign a legal document stating under penalty of perjury that they own the
rights to the item or trademark used in the listing, and that the items
listed are infringing upon their rights. They are not required to inform
us of the specifics of exactly why, or what in the listing is
infringing.

I realize that you feel that your listing did not infringe upon the
rights of DeWalt Industrial Tool Co. and The Black & Decker Corporation.
We recommend that you attempt to resolve this matter with the rights
owner. As mentioned earlier, eBay does not know what rights DeWalt
Industrial Tool Co. and The Black & Decker Corporation has in the item
you listed. You may want to email the rights owner again and present
them with the information you sent in your email to eBay.

If you contact the rights owner again, and they agree that the listing
was ended in error, and the item can be reinstated, please have them
contact us by email and let us know. Once we receive the email we will
reinstate your listing and remove the violation from your account. We
cannot reinstate your listing without a written request from the rights
owner.

If you contact the rights owner and do not hear back from them, or if
you have made a good faith effort to resolve the issues with the rights
owner but are unable to do so, please contact us by replying to this
email and explain your situation. We will make an effort to contact the
rights owner to resolve any differences.

For more information about infringing items and eBay's VeRO Program,
please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on eBay.

Regards,

Trinity
eBay VeRO Team
______________________________

[APRILRAZZ]

Just got this


The following listing:

2372038696 - DRM's Drama Drill, electric. NOT a DeWalt

was removed by eBay because a member of our Verified Right Owner (VeRO) Program notified eBay that the listing potentially infringes its copyright, trademark or other rights. We strongly urge you not to complete this transaction.

You can get more information on the VeRO Program at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this issue.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

[DRM]

Originally posted by NoJoke
NOOOOOO!

"Invalid Item
The item you requested (2372038696) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available."

Damn, and I WANTED that drill! It's famous!


Nate - make sure you let us know what kind of smack-down they send your way :laughing:

[NoJoke]

Originally posted by APRILRAZZ
Just got this


The following listing:

2372038696 - DRM's Drama Drill, electric. NOT a DeWalt

was removed by eBay because a member of our Verified Right Owner (VeRO) Program notified eBay that the listing potentially infringes its copyright, trademark or other rights. We strongly urge you not to complete this transaction.

You can get more information on the VeRO Program at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this issue.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

Can you ask them to be more specific? What right was infringed upon? ....certainly not color!

[XterraGuy]

Originally posted by ChevyCaGal
Some companies are gay. Our offroad club had to change the name of our club. Reason being, Big Dog Sportswear. The club was called Nor Cal Big Dawgs.

Wonder why they haven't gone after http://www.bigdogsoffroad.com/ then? They're a pretty well-organized local group and have their own private 'wheeling park and then some.

?
Brent

[Mr.RatBastard]

E-mail the guy at Dewalt , tell your having trouble getting rid of your drill and ask if he could send you some decals for it.


:D

[barraza]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


What trademark?

Do you have any idea how many yellow tools with BLACK power cables there are out there?

oh.. dewalt also started selling other black and yellow shit as well, so.. if they all of a sudden make a Dewalt toolbox, does that mean that those black and yellow toolboxes that have been on the market LONGER than them have just infringed on their trademark?

I don't think so, my bet would be that they go after the little man, vs. the companies because their case wouldn't hold up in a court of law. and ONLY a company would sue them over it, or a bored rich guy. So instead of having their "trademark" thrown in to the trash can, they do their best to "protect" it without it going to court. Meaning beat up the individual.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Like 99% of the other posts here, spoken like someone who HAS NO trademarked products. Sorry, but when you have your own company and have a good product and trademarks to protect it, you WILL do the same thing. Companies are increasingly under attack from a flood of cheap crap made to intentionally look like their stuff. A company MUST protect itself or its trademark will be useless.
Look at it from the other side, say you worked for me and saw someone selling products that infringed on our trademarks, would you be so accomodating towards them? Not likely, knowing that the companies welfare and your job depended on our competitiveness. You would probably be pissed at me for not doing all we could to track down, stamp out, and harass anyone who infringed.
No, I dont have any relationship to dewalt but I will defend my companies trademarks vigorously, my wellbeing and my employees depend on it.

[Schly]

Originally posted by DRM
The reply I got from eBay's VeRO team this morning


(Summary if you are too lazy to read it all: we are taking DeWalt word on this because they signed a piece of paper *promising* not to lie to us about this)



Hello David,

(Blah, Blah, Blah)....




Regards,

Trinity
eBay VeRO Team
______________________________



Damn! Dave got an email from Trinity!

And it better be the real Trinity or, well, that would be trademark infringement. ;)


PS: Ask her if she'll send me her panties. :D

[obex26]

Barraza,

What do you or your company have trademarks on product wise I am curious to know if I have ever used or owned one of your products.

Thanks:)

[Travis Waldher]

Originally posted by barraza


Like 99% of the other posts here, spoken like someone who HAS NO trademarked products. Sorry, but when you have your own company and have a good product and trademarks to protect it, you WILL do the same thing. Companies are increasingly under attack from a flood of cheap crap made to intentionally look like their stuff. A company MUST protect itself or its trademark will be useless.
Look at it from the other side, say you worked for me and saw someone selling products that infringed on our trademarks, would you be so accomodating towards them? Not likely, knowing that the companies welfare and your job depended on our competitiveness. You would probably be pissed at me for not doing all we could to track down, stamp out, and harass anyone who infringed.
No, I dont have any relationship to dewalt but I will defend my companies trademarks vigorously, my wellbeing and my employees depend on it.

Well.. lets put it this way...

Your all full of shit. :flipoff2:

Dewalt has a choice, they can go after the big guys that are making "knock off" or what they consider "look alike" products, which is a high risk, since the look alike products have money invested in their production line. Some legal fight would be worth it to save that investment. Now, before you say, how do I know they didn't go after the big companies? If they did, DRM wouldn't even have that drill in the first place to sell. HF couldn't sell look alikes. I would bet, that if you asked them for cases that they brought forward that they say they won... In reality there are none. It's just a psychological game on their part.

so, dewalt goes after the little guy as an effort. NOW, instead of bidding on the drill, or having ebay cancel the add, and offer to buy said drill of the person selling it. They just cancel it and go for strong arm tactics, looking to put fear of legal retribution (that they don't want to do anyway) in to someone that can't afford it.

I'm not against companies protecting their trademarks... but Dewalt is full of shit on this one. Based on what they have replied to DRM and DRM posted, ANYTHING bearing yellow or yellow like and black colors, they consider to be infringement. I would bet that under the court of law, a judge/jury would find their trademark to be to generically written to be enforceable.

If I built a product that was unique enough to hold a trademark I would defend it. But, to declare anything yellow and black as a trademark, thats a lame attempt at protecting a "trademark" of a lame product.

Afterall, if you took a cross section of consumers and asked them to compare DRM's POS drill to the Dewalt POS. And explicitly stated that the fact that they are both drills and both function similarly are not to be considered factors... the only factors being appearance and labelling. An argument that would more than likely be allowable in court. I would bet that most consumers, could tell that one was a Dewalt, and one wasn't when holding them side by side. For that reason I think that while Dewalt said they have one multiple cases supporting their trademark, NONE of them had anything to do with color, or if they did, they spooked some poor soul like DRM in to signing a legal agreement. They more than likely never went after a corporation.


DRM - I wouldn't consider a www.ihatedewalt.com site or something similar juvenile. It's the consumer just retaliating at their response to their customers. They can be opressive, heavy handed, beat around the truth all they want. As a consumer we can trash talk their product dissolving their consumer base as much as possible in return. IMO, thats just the way the market works.

(I'm not upset/excited here, I just find the subject interesting.)

[Haole]

Originally posted by Schly



Damn! Dave got an email from Trinity!

And it better be the real Trinity or, well, that would be trademark infringement. ;)


PS: Ask her if she'll send me her panties. :D

:laughing:

[B4Wheeler]

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


What trademark?

Do you have any idea how many yellow tools with BLACK power cables there are out there?

oh.. dewalt also started selling other black and yellow shit as well, so.. if they all of a sudden make a Dewalt toolbox, does that mean that those black and yellow toolboxes that have been on the market LONGER than them have just infringed on their trademark?

I don't think so, my bet would be that they go after the little man, vs. the companies because their case wouldn't hold up in a court of law. and ONLY a company would sue them over it, or a bored rich guy. So instead of having their "trademark" thrown in to the trash can, they do their best to "protect" it without it going to court. Meaning beat up the individual.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Here is a perfect example. Sears sells this toolbox. It is clearly yellow and black. Does this mean it is a DeWalt toolbox...........No!!!!
I own two of these and have never thought it was a DeWalt toolbox. If DeWalt went after evryone that produced a black and yellow product, I am sure that Sears would not be selling these anymore.

[ChevyGal]

Stanley Tools also have the black and yellow thing going on. I have a Stanley toolbox my friends son bought me for Christmas last year.

I understand defending a trademark. But IMO some companies simply are clueless. More then likely it's people who work for them that have to do crap like this to keep their jobs. It's easier for them close out a DRM on ebay, and print out some paper on that and say, look boss, I'm defending our trademark, then it is for them to find the company who makes it, then get into with them, spend how many thousands of bucks, and maybe lose..... that doesn't look good for you, on your job. But this, is simple, and works for them, so they go with it. Sucks for us that they are willing to be so lame, but I see it more and more now.... :rasta:

[NoJoke]

Originally posted by barraza


Like 99% of the other posts here, spoken like someone who HAS NO trademarked products. Sorry, but when you have your own company and have a good product and trademarks to protect it, you WILL do the same thing. Companies are increasingly under attack from a flood of cheap crap made to intentionally look like their stuff. A company MUST protect itself or its trademark will be useless.
Look at it from the other side, say you worked for me and saw someone selling products that infringed on our trademarks, would you be so accomodating towards them? Not likely, knowing that the companies welfare and your job depended on our competitiveness. You would probably be pissed at me for not doing all we could to track down, stamp out, and harass anyone who infringed.
No, I dont have any relationship to dewalt but I will defend my companies trademarks vigorously, my wellbeing and my employees depend on it.


You sound like you know what you are talking about and, honestly, I don't. But that won't stop me from speculating. I'd say that the lawyers and "protect the color scheme" thing to protect sales is crap. Let the darwin effect work. If someone is DUMB enough to think THAT drill is a