Engine swap Questions...351W to 460...

[freebird01]

The 460 wasn't availabe in a 4X4 till '83. The 460's before '79 are internally balanced, you will need a flywheel from a 390. (ford didnt have commonly available any stick shft 429/460's in the '70's) If its after '79, any 460 flywheel will work. Do yourself a favor and get a flywheel that will accept a 12" clutch. You might have to clearnace the belhousing to clear it. To tell which flywheel you will need, look behind the harmonic balancer, if there is a counterweight, any 460 flywheel should work, if there isnt, you need to find a FE flywheel (352. 360, 390). You want manifolds from a truck, or a van, passenger car ones wont clear the frame. Get 2wd 390 truck motor mounts and make them work. It will save you at least $100 on mounts alone

this was taken from a previous post....

now i got a question. I have an 83 F250 ext cab 4x4with a 351W/c6. i also have an 86 F250 reg cab 4x4 with a 460/c6.

I am contemplating putting in a manual transmission behind the 460 when i swap the 460 into the 83 Ext cab.

I already have a 351M bellhousing from a 77 truck. what flywheel and clutch would i need to make this combo work?????

[infoford]

being that the 460 is a 86 it will be a externally balanced engine
which requires a flywheel from a 79 and newer 460
your 351m/400 bellhousing though it will fit the 460 doesn't have the room for the larger flywheel you will need to find a 84 and up bellhousing for a 4spd if you are determined to use your bellhousing then you will need to grind out the bumps inside where your bolts go through to mount to the engine but you still have a depth problem the throwout bearing can't get off the clutch for a full engagement also you have the frame mounts for the engine from your donor truck that is not to bad except that ford rivited one frame mount and bolted the other to the frame
the 351 oil filter goes through the crossmember the 460s use a adapter to change teh angle frome the engine and it lays on the top towards the front when you swap you will need to buy a remote oil filter adapter or butcher the frame crossmember everything else is pretty straight forward I think I would stay with the C6 mainly because both are autos and you prolly don't have all the clutch linkages I am guessing

[freebird01]

ok cool...thanks for the info.....i keep hearing rumors about what will fit and what wont. ill prolly just reuse the C6....just swap t-case and all over.....

i wasnt aware of the oil filter interference im glad you mentioned it. remote filter would be cool though....would make oil changes much easier in the future.

im not worried about the rivited motor stand.....rivits can be cut out/ground out. just means i bolt it on the 83 with grade 8 bolts or something to that nature

thanks again for the info!

[BUZZISCRAZY2]

Keep the c-6........much stronger

[freebird01]

stronger? stronger then what? an NP435? i highly doubt it.

the NP435 was used in everything from half ton pickups to F600-700 Dump trucks and utility flatbed trucks...

If you can put this tranny in a 5-7 ton truck i would think it would be stronger then a C6 auto...which as far as i know only found its way into the F-series pickups (F150-F350) and nothing bigger....i could be wrong on that though...

even so i doubt a C6 is stronger then an NP435....which is what i was going to swap in.

[82F100SWB]

Since you already have the oil filter adaptor, you shouldn't need to touch the crossmember, unless, like I'm suspicious of, the F250 LD one is different than a F250 HD/350(92-96 F250 HD's with 351W's use a half size oil filter, because the crossmember isn't cut out to clear like a half ton, my 86 w/460 is also like this)

As for a C6, it made it into the big F-Series also, don't doubt it's stregnth.

[freebird01]

Originally posted by 82F100SWB
Since you already have the oil filter adaptor, you shouldn't need to touch the crossmember, unless, like I'm suspicious of, the F250 LD one is different than a F250 HD/350(92-96 F250 HD's with 351W's use a half size oil filter, because the crossmember isn't cut out to clear like a half ton, my 86 w/460 is also like this)

As for a C6, it made it into the big F-Series also, don't doubt it's stregnth.


i dont totally doubt it but i doubt it would be stronger then a granny 4 speed....im pretty sure this is an F250 HD cause of the heavy suspension components and the FF rear axle...

[4runner]

My nephew swapped a 460 in to replace a 351C...first run out he cracked the Tcase(NP208) housing...next time he destroyed the tranny(C6)...got it rebuilt with some race parts(no idea what that means), and now it seems to run pretty good...I think all that nitrous and propane injection stuff is for the birds myself...

[infoford]

on the crossmember it doesn't matter if it is a 1/2 or 1 ton
the small block uses one with a big hole in it for the oil filter
the diesel and 460 does not have this hole and the front part is shaped different for the factory oil filter adapter but that adapter will not clear the small block crossmember with out the crossmember being notched

[82F100SWB]

The late model 351W F250HD's that I used to maintain here(Railroad trucks, mostly 95-97) all had the HD crossmember without the hole and a half size oil filter...

[infoford]

That is because the railroad doesn't want its employees to have any horse power :laughing: so they had ford yank all the 460s and power strokes and put in small blocks :laughing:

there is no such thing as a heavy duty crossmember the small block one is the same strength as the bigblock/diesel one
they are only shaped different to accomodate different engine configurations

[82F100SWB]

I only refer to it as a HD crossmember as it's all I've ever seen in an Over 8500# GVWR 4x4 truck, the only small block installations I've seen were the aforementioned 351W's with the oddball oilfilter.

[wetnsloppy4x]

Originally posted by infoford
being that the 460 is a 86 it will be a externally balanced engine which requires a flywheel from a 79 and newer 460
your 351m/400 bellhousing though it will fit the 460 doesn't have the room for the larger flywheel you will need to find a 84 and up bellhousing for a 4spd if you are determined to use your bellhousing then you will need to grind out the bumps inside where your bolts go through to mount to the engine but you still have a depth problem the throwout bearing can't get off the clutch for a full engagement also you have the frame mounts for the engine from your donor truck that is not to bad except that ford rivited one frame mount and bolted the other to the frame
the 351 oil filter goes through the crossmember the 460s use a adapter to change teh angle frome the engine and it lays on the top towards the front when you swap you will need to buy a remote oil filter adapter or butcher the frame crossmember everything else is pretty straight forward I think I would stay with the C6 mainly because both are autos and you prolly don't have all the clutch linkages I am guessing
I didn't have any clearance problems when I used the original 351M/400 bellhousing in my 77' F-150. However my setup uses an internally balanced 460. The stock setup used an 11" clutch. It has a 12" in it now. I bought the flywheel new and it is in fact a 460 flywheel. Not a redrilled FE flywheel.

I was a little surprised it all fit. Before swapping in the 460 I had heard the same things infoford mentions above.

Does the externally balanced flywheel have a larger OD?

[Grendel]

Originally posted by wetnsloppy4x

I didn't have any clearance problems when I used the original 351M/400 bellhousing in my 77' F-150. However my setup uses an internally balanced 460. The stock setup used an 11" clutch. It has a 12" in it now. I bought the flywheel new and it is in fact a 460 flywheel. Not a redrilled FE flywheel.

I was a little surprised it all fit. Before swapping in the 460 I had heard the same things infoford mentions above.

Does the externally balanced flywheel have a larger OD?

Where did you buy the flywheel? Got a part number?

I am getting ready to swap a 429 into my 79 F350, already have the NP435 and NP205.

[wetnsloppy4x]

I got it at Six States Distriutors. www.sixstates.com
One of their shops is here in Boise so bought it in person. I don't know what you'll find on the website other that a phone #. The part # on the reciept is LC LFW114.

[infoford]

the externally balanced 460 is the same OD but it is almost twice as thick as the internal balanced thus going into the bellhousing

[Grendel]

This is an internally balanced 429.

[wetnsloppy4x]

Originally posted by infoford
the externally balanced 460 is the same OD but it is almost twice as thick as the internal balanced thus going into the bellhousing
I see. That answered my question. Thanks.

That would explain the conflicting stories I heard before doing my swap. The internal vs. external flywheel dimensions were a variable I hadn't thought of. Now it makes sense why some people have trouble with PP to bellhousing interference. :idea: