I was told once that there was a guy goes with the name of "Butch" in Napa Valley who does SOA and do practically any fabrications on FJ40s.

So is anybody out there that knows where I can find him?

-nc

That would be Butch Lewis (owner of ButchBuilt) in Napa, CA. He truly builds quality Cruiser parts. His phone number is (707) 257-3454, and his email address is butchblt@pacbell.net.

You are speaking of Butch Lewis, ButchBuilt, Napa, CA

There must be a echo in here !!!!!!!

That must be Butchbuilt yeh I think that is him

Rhino

Fawkin' Awesome!

Thanks for the information and I owe you guys a pack of <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

-nc

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: nightcrawler ]

Arrrggggghhhhhhh! I called Butch and almost had a heart attack. I personally think hes somewhat related to Brian at BTB cuz both of these guys charge too much for the task. $2,500 bucks to do the SOA....I don't think so bubba

Reddog's soa posse, I need you fellas!

-nc

I personaly would not pay that much
but.

If the job is done corectly.
his price is not to far out of line.
you must remember that he is running a business and has bills of his own to pay.

Did he tell you what was involved ????

ps for that much money and doing the
complete job myself I could install
dana 60 front and rear.

Land Crusher Exactly, if its too expensive to do the soa conversion, the d44 &d60 combo will be the best investment especially getting rid of birfields for good. However if I can have someone to do the soa conversion for cheap, I'll do that as well.

-nc

In defense of Butch; he is a fine fabricator/welder, and I would have no problem recommending him. There's a line credited to Burt Reynolds asking his date about choosing wine for diner - it goes "do you want something good, or just expensive!"

That's the difference between Butch and BTB IMHO!

BTW did you price a SO from BTB, Wardens, Mudraks' or anybody else??

KK I juggled some words with Brian at BTB and he personally said that he doesn't recommend the SOA conversion. However if I still want it done, it's gonna cost me about 2.5 - 3 grand. Bear one thing in mind if any one of you talk to him, hes one helluva cocky SOB! I'll talk to Warden today and see what he has to say about this. *groans*

-nc

Dont talk to danny if you think Brian is cocky danny will surely piss you off talk to Scott our mike at Extreme gear off road there realy good guys #(916)990-0419 and do alot of extreme work.built my 60&44. o TPI350,th400,D60ARB,D44ARB,sprgover,rvs,35s,pwstr. <IMG SRC="smilies/scary.gif" border="0"> creep,crawl and conquer <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by nightcrawler:
<STRONG>KK I juggled some words with Brian at BTB and he personally said that he doesn't recommend the SOA conversion. However if I still want it done, it's gonna cost me about 2.5 - 3 grand. Bear one thing in mind if any one of you talk to him, hes one helluva cocky SOB! I'll talk to Warden today and see what he has to say about this. *groans*

-nc</STRONG>
NC - one thing I can tell you is Butch is not a cocky SOB - just straight talking, down to earth guy. BTB has put down SOA conversions for years prefering the "rock catcher" shackle reversal w/2" lift front/4" lift rear approach. Ask Dog House about this "ultimate" BTB lift - none better, eh Dog House! Like I said - Butch is not cheap, but well worth the money. KK

hear hear FJ Junkie

i do a lot of work on my rig with friends, alone, whatever. it saves me some dough. but i've got butchbuilt fabs on my rig, some mudrak work and some o' luke porter's too. these guys do quality work. at the PMC swap meet, i won a certificate to get some of alans work too, and i can't wait to see what he can come up with. the reason i've got the stuff on my rig is that they do better work than alot of other yahoo's out there. i've seen tons of redneck engineering out there, that i wouldn't trust my life to. its' your safety so do what you want.

if you can't afford their work, fine. but trying to compare any of these guys, and particularly butch, to brian at BTB is just plain wrong. brian's got a bad rep because he's usually charges more than anyone for the same product, and he's generally mean and rude while he's doing it. butch charges more, because his shit is the bomb. and he's the nicest guy around. if you're gonna talk smack about somebody, you should sure know the guy first.

Originally posted by Land Crusher:
<STRONG>


ps for that much money and doing the
complete job myself I could install
dana 60 front and rear.</STRONG>

could give us a price breakdown on how you could do d60's front and rear for 2500 with a spring over..i am curious

here is mine
front d60 $1000-1500 stock needing to be rebuilt
front d60 rebuild with locker and gears $800-1000

rear d60 300-500 from junk yard needing to be rebuilt
locker , gears ,custom axles $1500

driveshafts 400-600 dollars
brakelines 25-
ubolts 40-50
new wheels for the d60 400 and up

all this ads up to around 5000 give or take a little here and there , i hope you dont need new brakes on those d60's cause your going to spend another couple of hundy and if the rear axle need's to be cut to offset the pinnion for the toyota t/case that's going to cost ...
i am sure i missed a few things in my breakdown so add another 100-200 bucks for things like spray paint ,hardware ,sanding disks, brake fluid ect. ect...
i am curious if you have a recipe to do this for 2500 i am all ears ...

A guy who used to post here a lot helped me do a significant mod to my cruiser. I traded him some cool stuff, but no money changed hands. The mod was cool, but it was half-baked, and the fact that it was half-baked made the truck a bit unsafe and I ended up having to pretty much re-do the mod later. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing and learned a lesson.

I paid Butch to fix a problematic part of the mod. Butch knows his shit. He has probably been doing excellent fab since before many of you were born. He is worth his price, at least to me. His solution was elegant, and now the mod is much more useful, the truck is more safe and the work is just sano.

He's also built a cool bumper and some excellent rocker protection for me. There is some stuff I'll do myself, and some stuff I'd rather a pro did. Butch is a real pro.

Props to Butch,

morgan

Originally posted by morgan:
<STRONG>A guy who used to post here a lot helped me do a significant mod to my cruiser. I traded him some cool stuff, but no money changed hands. The mod was cool, but it was half-baked, and the fact that it was half-baked made the truck a bit unsafe and I ended up having to pretty much re-do the mod later. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing and learned a lesson.

I paid Butch to fix a problematic part of the mod. Butch knows his shit. He has probably been doing excellent fab since before many of you were born. He is worth his price, at least to me. His solution was elegant, and now the mod is much more useful, the truck is more safe and the work is just sano.

He's also built a cool bumper and some excellent rocker protection for me. There is some stuff I'll do myself, and some stuff I'd rather a pro did. Butch is a real pro.

Props to Butch,

morgan</STRONG>

morgan you must have got a lil' help ehhh !
nothing is worse than someone that thinks they know what they are talking about only to fawk up a new guy in the process...
we are glad he posts no more !

KK I never once mentioned that Butch is one cocky SOB and I personally never met him in person let alone call him names. However I can say the opposite for Brian at BTB cuz I personally met him and I can say it out loud......he's a prick! Its simply a fact that I met him personally and he charges too much for something that lacks in craftmanship nor quality.

Speaking of quality service and craftsmanship, if you think Butch excel in this field then I'll look him up and see what he has to offer for my needs. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

-nc

FJ You are mistaken for one thing, you should NEVER trust anybody with your life to begin with. Also even if you said you build awesome roll cage, I will never take up on your offer cuz I don't trust you with my life on your hands but mine.

Quality and excellent craftmanship are two of many important things that crosses my mind before buying anything for my 40. I'm building my 40 from the stratch and only "best of the best" components will be seen on the vehicle. I have huge pride in my project and only "few" people will get their chance to work on it. So I'm looking for "few good men" to help me out with my needs to complete my 40 the way I want it. I have met several cocky SOB who stated that their service is the "best" when its for the fact its not. Speaking about facts, I called Butch and inquire him with the cost to do the soa job on my 40, he just said "$2,500" without mentioning what process or fabrication it requires to make the task a successful one. Lack source of information leads to assumptions. I might as well admit that I probably made an ass out of myself, accusing Butch of something bad when he excels in this kind of task. Sales pitch is probably not his strong suit. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Again, like I said, only top-of-the-line will be seen on my vehicle so "cheap" doesn't apply. So I have every right to seek for service at the best rate and it has nothing to do with being "cheap" ass redneck. The way I look at it, the more $$ I save, the more parts I can buy for my 40. You catch my drift?

-nc

[ 08-18-2001: Message edited by: nightcrawler ]

Morgan Many thanks for the input.

-nc

i can second nightcrawler when he says brian is a real prick. when ever you go there he always has a smartass remark to anything you say. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0"> he basicly thinks his shit dont stink and that he knows everything there is to know about cruisers. <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0"> their customer service is really <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0">

seriously, i just had to deal w/ that <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> brian the other day, then had to deal w/ older fat ass today...he says those "legends" leaf springs can outramp a sprung over 40 <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> speaking of spring over stuff, i just finished today..total time: aprox. 7.5 hours..not bad, considering my dad said it was gonna take way longer, and i did it all myself...hey nightcrawler, if you want someone to do it for you for cheap, swing on by my house and i could do it for you...1 thing though, i cant cut and rotate (ive never tried and dont want to on your housing), so you'd have to have dogwalker cut it, then i'll do the rest of the job for you...
<IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> BTB <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0">

Wardens used to do spring overs for a grand, but I don't think so anymore. The way he does it it's pretty labor intensive. He sleeves the frame, extends the front of the frame 2", does the shackle reverse, and rotates the front knuckles. There are alot of other little things that he does also. Wardens does good work, he did the SOA conversion of a friend Cruzah a many years ago, and it was sweet. I mirrored Wardens SOA when I did mine, and personally I think his way of doing it it the best and strongest design. Well proven, cause he uses it also on his Sweet Cruzah. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
Needless to say I have seen some really scary fab work folks have done, and I sure as hell don't want to be in or around their junk on the trail!

The best way to see a guy's work is to see it in person. I suggest you visit Butch to see the SOA conversions he's done. He's only a 90-minute drive from where you are. Compare his workmanship vs. the home jobs you've seen on the trail, etc. You'll also see there are a lot more details than the how-to webpages show.

Butch is not a salesman, that's true, but he's no BTB Brian. He's done a lot of these conversions. C'mon, if you were to have a vasectomy done, do you want an experienced doctor to do it for $2500 or some guy in Tijuana do it for $500? My cruiser is almost as important as my balls.

Dave

Originally posted by Beanz2:
<STRONG>My cruiser is almost as important as my balls.

Dave</STRONG>

your killn me dave that was good <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

Comparing Butch Lewis to BTB is insulting...to Butch, that is. Butch is one of those "artisan" type of fabricators, who take their time and to things right, to the point of perfectionism. This may not result in any bargains, but once you see the stuff he puts out and the trucks he builds, you understand why. I've met Butch Lewis in person and he's a straightforward guy, an excellent fabricator, and a Cruiserhead to boot. It's not often that you get this package in the Cruiser world, sadly.

I have a lot of respect for people who build their own Cruisers from scratch and do everything themselves; but you must also understand that there are a lot of us who for various reasons (lack of expertise, time, workspace/tools) do not have that luxury, and thus depend on fabricators and businesses. In the last 7 years, I've met and worked with a LOT of different Cruiser businesses and fabricators, some good, some shitty. If you were to ask me who I would recommend of those that I've worked with, I'd DEFINITELY say Gary Kardum of Mudrak Custom Cruisers (Sonoma, CA), Dave Gore of Renegade Fabrication (Phoenix, AZ), Lance Williams of LobsterFab (Farmville, VA), and Butch Lewis of ButchBilt (Napa, CA). None of the above are what you'd describe as "cheap", but if you want fantastic fabrication at reasonable prices, you can't beat any of these guys.

Good fabricators that understand wheeling AND Cruisers are REALLY hard to find. You may know a great welder, but he may never have worked on a vehicle's suspension; you may know a great fabricator, but he may not be a wheeler. Finding all of the above in one person in rare indeed.

Just my biased $0.02, I happen to like Butch Lewis and consider him a friend, and while I agree his prices are definitely high-end, so is his level of workmanship and the end result.

Later!

I dont know what all the whining is about. But i did my own soa,and it came out with no problems. I got all the info needed and tools to do it with and it was a piece of cake. It's been 3yrs and no problems. The thing that cost most was having the knuckles rotated, but Danny at wardens told me if i did it right i wouldnt have to do this. So he told me and showed me how.

Im not that experianced in this, but it does'nt hurt trying. I've been told it looks like a pro did it so dont underestamate youre self.

Lets see here; I paid $100 at pick-n-pull for a ford van offset dana60 rear end. Had it cut for $200,with d44 ends put on it. Paid $50 for backing plates,drums,brake parts and E cables, at P-N-P. Then baught duthman axles for $375,ring&pinion 4.88 $185,and an ARB locker for $665. Driveline $80 made to fit. A solidly built D60 for far less then $2000..

D44 built asswell; paid $125 for complete front housing again at P-N-P. Had housing cut for $200. Axles cut and resplined $75 a piece at dutchman. New steering control arms $150, knuckle drilled and tapped $50,jeep tie rod and draglink at p-n-p $35,ring&pinion $150,bearing kit $100,hubs $80,ARB locker $645,driveline $80.

Dont forget brakelines $100 front & rear.

Depends on what you want and were you get it from. I sure like dynatrac but there expinsive. Besides my front end i doubt im going to brake anything,untill I put my D60 front in; then ill be cool.

I think everything has gone sky rocket. In this sport they all saw a gold mine and went running for it. Wardens told me $1200 3yrs ago, what happened since?
I'm sure they all do good work but its not worth $2500 I know I did it my self.
I'm sorry but doing fab work is not that hard. You could buy all the tools you need to do it with. For the price of labor now days.

Then figure it out. <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">

I've seen Butch Lewis' work on Morgan's FJ55 at Cruise Moab. Very IMPRESSIVE. Butch's workmanship is top notch.

I always figured it was way cheaper (less expensive) to have someone who knows what they're doing it build it right the first time. Having to undo someone's mistake and redo it just expensive and time consuming.

I would rather pay someone more for a job knowing that it will be done correctly.

My 2 pesos..

Charles

Well then , I would say that you have more money then confidence or self knowledge.
I've lived by do it right the fist time or dont do it at all. Since I was a youngster my father taught me that and I still use it today.
I think 50% of the fun of 4x4ing is doing the work my self. I have learned by trial and error, Just like butch and everyone else. But I learn from my mistakes and will not make them again.
I could afford to have somebody else work on my FJ but for all the changes I make to better improve Its ability to offroad. It would cost a fortune.
That is true there are some jokers out there that do some real shity work, Ive seen it but maybe there just learning. At least there trying and I dont always criticize that. I my self do awsome work on my rig, I dont like to work on others because of reliabilty reasons.
I also belive that going out and buying a rockbuggy built by Avalanche dosnt make you a true wheeler it makes you a wannabe.
unless you built it your self.
Theres been alot of great rigs built in peples garages that do just aswell.
I remember a time when I was at the Rubi and this guy was up there in his FJ getting his rig put in a mag. I got to talking to him and to my amazement he told me he realy didnt want to wheel to spider. Do to somthing happing to his cruiser and how much it would cost. So I asked him why even have it?
You know it feels good when people come up and tell me how good my FJ looks. then tell'em I did it my self.


OH yea better explain red neck please?
Beacause my neck is red when ever I wheel with my top off.
If it means self Ingenuity all right Im a red neck all the way DUDE.


I also think theres alot of people on our trails that dont belong there. Due to the fact that they disrespect the trails.
The only reason why there on the trail. Is because they were able to buy a rig capable of getting them on the trail....

T.P.I350 TH400 D60dutchman,ARB D44ARB 35s GM column,Saginaw str,pro comp dash,dual optimas,custom rvs shkl,soa,custom rear tank,etc etc etc.

you're right alot of people don't belong on the trails. often because they home engineered some POS that causes risk both to others and the trail itself (what they do to themselves is their own business). i'm not saying your rig is necessarily in that camp, but your argument can be used both ways.

i do think that you're missing the point here and mainly because i don't think you know the people who are posting. i personally know every one of them. no one has 'bought' their rig. each has made extensive modifications themselves. these aren't store bought. have each of them paid someone to do some work for them? sure. thats a far cry from someone who purchases a store bought rig and doesn't wheel it. that kind of insuation is exactly what got this thread going. one guy, not knowing who he's talking about, insuating negative characteristics to that person. you're doing the same thing. everywhere who's posted here wrenches and wheels extensively. and we all know butch and appreciate his skills. his fabrication skills are above reproach.

i won't comment on whether or not your spring over is a good one or a bad one, haven't seen it. you might have done a great job. i do know i've seen alot of them that shouldnt' be on the road. not because they're just a danger to the driver, but because they're a danger to everyone else on the road. a poorly designed and executed SOA is often difficult to control, can't execute emergency avoidance moves and as a result can kill others. if someone isn't careful and skilled in their design and execution, then they should pay someone else to do the work who is skilled. also, you're comment about not want ing liability by working on others rigs? well thats one of the reasons SOA's by professionals cost as much as they do. guaranteed if someone gets killed on the highway because someone's SOA has poor steering and stability, then the fabricator is gonna get sued. likely for wrongul death, which equals very big dollars.

in the end your argument is somewhat fatally flawed. it's basically 'build it all yourself or you're a poser'. come awn, did you balance your drive shafts, manufacture the block of your engine, grow the rubber for your tires and vulcanize them? of course not. you can't do IT all yourself. you have to pick and choose what you do yourself and what you dont'. its not a binary equation.

Originally posted by J Arnett:
<STRONG>

I also think theres alot of people on our trails that dont belong there. Due to the fact that they disrespect the trails.
The only reason why there on the trail. Is because they were able to buy a rig capable of getting them on the trail....

T.P.I350 TH400 D60dutchman,ARB D44ARB 35s GM column,Saginaw str,pro comp dash,dual optimas,custom rvs shkl,soa,custom rear tank,etc etc etc.</STRONG>

Hmmm........... I dont think there is any correlation between people who "build" their rigs and people who "buy" their rigs being disespectful of the trails. Not to start a war of words, but how do you know that someone who is disrespectful to the trail did not build their rig? - sort of type-casting isnt it? There are many people who have no engineering skills, mechanical skills or fabrication skills who love wheeling and are extremely respectful of the trails, in my experience. The whole point of this thread was someone looking for a particular fabricator - they later commented that the fabricators prices sounded high. That seems to have turned into a slamming exercise on fabricators, and those that need their services. I am very glad you are able to do your own fabrication - you are a credit to the sport/hobby, or whatever it might be. Please do not criticize those who cannot do the work themselves, nor the fabrictors for the prices they charge, insinuating that they are unfairly ripping people off because you can do it cheaper yourself. Taking it to another level - did you manufacture your own engine, tranny, axles, etc.? - no way, you bought them already made! By your logic, you should build a rig from scratch! Ridiculous, you say, absurd! Not really, there are things you chose to buy already made because it was cost effective for you. That is the point - for many people it is simply cost effective to have a pro do the work.

Now I will shut up, and just look forward to wheeling with ya one day - I'm really an OK person in person. See ya at the POR Clean-up run? - it's the first weekend in October

Originally posted by rubytoy:
<STRONG>

come awn, did you balance your drive shafts, manufacture the block of your engine, grow the rubber for your tires and vulcanize them? of course not. you can't do IT all yourself. you have to pick and choose what you do yourself and what you dont'. its not a binary equation.</STRONG>
Damn, Jay - ya beat me to it - great minds think alike, huh!

musta been those fosters we were drinking last night. made us beer buddies. at butch's. admiring all those great mods he's fabricating right now.

I will beat this dead horse some more, then go make glue from the hooves.

Another reason why some people - myself included - pay other people to work on their cruisers is time. I'm a dad, I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old. My wife also works. I love four-wheeling, but I got into the sport only a couple years ago. I didn't have the skills to do some of the more significant mods - like the SOA myself. I thought about doing it, but I just didn't have lots of free time to wrench, learn, etc. and I didn't want to screw up on my own cruiser either. I didn't have metal fabrication or automotive engineering experience before getting involved in the four-wheeling scene.

I work hard at my job. My work is unrelated to any sort of metal fabrication or mechanical engineering - I'm a software engineer. Some of my time turns into income I choose to spend on hobbies, and four-wheeling is a hobby of mine. For some mods, I saved up dough, then called Butch. Same for Gary Kardum and Luke Porter. Some mods I did myself. Yes, it's very satisfying to do your own work. Pulling and reinstalling my 2F when it got rebuilt - by a pro - was a great education in how a motor works.

Butch, Gary and Luke spent lots of their own time gaining experience, knowledge and skills and building excellent shops. I was happy to benefit from their experience. It's all about time.

I keep track (http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/fj55.html) of the work I do on my FJ55. If you look there, you'll see I did most of it myself. I also got help from friends and professionals, sometimes in the same person. There's no loss of pride or self-respect in paying someone who knows how to do a job right. It's one of the foundations of modern civilization.

J Arnett, since you have so much self-respect, you'll recognize it in my post too. Let's extend it to mutual respect and move on.

morgan

J, R, KK....

To be honest, I personally rather to build my rig the way I want it by myself without dealing with scams or overpriced assholes like BTB. However I do know without a doubt that there are honest fabricators out there who builds rigs for living and their craftmanship/quality is unbelievably impressive. When these certain fabricators devoted to their quality work on our rigs also associate with "safety" issues at all times because they are at a risk if something goes wrong. So its more likely that these fabricators are "perfectionist" and building the rig the "right" way to prevent any accident from occuring. It sure will put my mind at ease when wheeling at any trails. This is the main reason why I am asking around for a certain fabricator who specializes in soa conversions in the first place, not giving them a bad name. Not only that, I don't have any experience doing the soa conversion myself to begin with, so I'm gonna let the "pro" do it. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Besides the soa conversion, I have precisely 15 years experience in custom fabrications so I'm pretty sure that I prefer to do anything myself because I'm great at it. Also I do consider myself "perfectionist" so my rig will be built the "right" way even if I have to get some help from professinals. -nc

Originally posted by morgan:
<STRONG>I

Butch, Gary and Luke spent lots of their own time gaining experience, knowledge and skills and building excellent shops. I was happy to benefit from their experience. It's all about time.

</STRONG>

Are you missing anyone when talking fabrication skills aka Fab Five Freddy? - do ya think it would piss them off not to be mentioned? Are you gonna stand near him when the Q sauce is a flyin'? You are a brave son of a gun!

in that case nightcrawler, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who does a better job than butch. i'd also check mudrak (mudrak.com) and crawltec.com. they're all in the bay area so you won't have to drive very fair to get the work done. and since you've got a lot of fabrication experience, i'm sure at a minimum that you'd enjoy meeting and discussing fab options with any of these shops. even if you do alot of the work yourself.
i do alot of the work myself, but frequently talk with the pro's basically to bounce ideas off them. they're all pretty friendly.

Originally posted by nightcrawler:
<STRONG>J, R, KK....

Also I do consider myself "perfectionist" so my rig will be built the "right" way even if I have to get some help from professinals. -nc</STRONG>
NC - no worries, man. I dont think you need to offer an explanation. My posts were simply to underscore that Butch is one of those unsung heros, who's name should not be mention in the same breath as that character from the South Bay. I do not believe anyone should have to justify their choices - this is a free counrty, after all. Hope to see ya on the trail. KK

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser:
<STRONG>Are you missing anyone when talking fabrication skills aka Fab Five Freddy? - do ya think it would piss them off not to be mentioned? Are you gonna stand near him when the Q sauce is a flyin'? You are a brave son of a gun!</STRONG>

Er, ah, you mean Melle Mel McGarty or Big Stinky? Big Stinky does nice work, but he hasn't done any work on my cruiser - those other guys have. He's done some not-so-nice work on his tightie-whities, judging from the toxic cloud he generates at the manshack. :-)

Alan, you rock harder than the Nuge. You know I'm just giving you shit. We do need a rollcage for the little 40...

morgan

morgan,
i thought you had to get rid of the 40 to get the 80? are you keeping it now?

and i think alan bends with his butt cheeks

Originally posted by rubytoy:
<STRONG>i thought you had to get rid of the 40 to get the 80? are you keeping it now?</STRONG>

Ah, er, um. I'm keeping it, but don't tell her.

<STRONG>and i think alan bends with his butt cheeks</STRONG>

Don't you go sharing secrets.

morgan

thnx krusty ! morgan , jay you guys crack me up , if this is your way of sucking up for a discount you guys are on track but you need to lay it on a little thicker <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

alan
crawltec

Originally posted by rubytoy:
and i think alan bends with his butt cheeks[/QB]

I don't think Stinky actually uses his butt cheeks, he just blasts a foul one and softens the metal. Who needs a hydraulic bender.

I heard about the Butch/BTB comparison a few posts and 2 pages back, and wish to share my .02.
To be fair, I know Butch very well, and have only spoken with BTB on the phone once.

Once was all it took with BTB. I requested a price for the TPI Chevy V8 350 with the NV4500/3 sp transfer case modification. I almost choked on my top ramen when the guy told me it would run around $25,000.00!

Butch affords me the pleasure of answering all of my uninformed questions, and is very patient with explaining in detail why some crazy idea I have will or will not work. He lets me hang around his shop, and look at all of the pretties, and swings pretty good deals on parts for me as well.
He is just about the nicest, most genuine guy you could have the pleasure of knowing.

His work costs a bit, but you DO get what you pay for. . .
I am not a wealthy man by any stretch of the imagination, and that is why I don't have any ButchBuilt products on my rig, but if and when I want it done right, I'll have to line up behind all of the other folks waiting for his time, and pony up the big cash.

Not once has Butch had to stand up for himself with Nightcrawlers' posts. Why should he, when at last count there were 25+ posts defending his honor.

A little in-depth knowledge would shed light on the fact that Butch can shut his gate for probably a year, and still not run out of work.

Oh, and $25,000.00 would buy a lot of Butch. . .

Just my .02 . . .


<IMG width=400 height=400 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/jonrwarpaint01red.jpg">
Jon's Page (http://www.jps.net/fjowner)

I do have to admit there is something to what JArnett says... When I got my first Cruiser about 9 years ago, the guys in my club were somewhat rivals with the Toys on the Rocks. We did springovers our way, and Danny & the P'ville boys did it their way. Back then a few guys in our club had Danny do the SOA. I think the Summer sale price was around $700 plus shocks.....

But then again a crewcab diesel will set you back $40K so everything is more expensive than it used to be except for silicon based products (ALL kinds!) <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I have done 3 SOAs myself, and every time I do anything, I figure out a way to make it better. AN like Morgan I have restricted time so - some things I buy, some I make and sometimes (rarely) I pay someone else to do it for me.

Just my $20.00 (see even my opinion is worth more than it used to be <IMG SRC="smilies/glasses.gif" border="0"> )

inflation is amazing <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I'm happy with my spring over, seems to me it's pretty much a basic kind of thing, no rocket science here. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

i have noticed that we people who do our own work have a much higher tolerance for crap than the ones who hire someone else to do it. not that i am saying anyones work is crap exactly but i have seen people who were proud as could be of thier work but a moderately intelligent person would get white knuckles and hair driving it around the block. while a springover isnt rocket science a good one takes a lot of time to do one that works as well on the trail as it does on the road.

Gotta say though that the internet probably has brought the quality of the do-it-yourselfers work up. The amount of info and does and donts out there from people who have done the project before is what makes it much easier for us to do it. I probably wouldnt have done the things Ive done to mine without this resource, and a couple of buddys that can weld <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">. But Im pleased with the outcome.

I would have gladly paid someone to do it for me if I could, but sadly enough, that doesnt factor in with 3 kids and a wife. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">