Hey Weldpro, and everyone else, remember that topic a long time ago about DOM vs Pipe for cages and it had all sorts of info in it and it was pretty long? i need to get back to it and couldnt find it in the archives, any chance i could find it? anyone print it out or something? thanks, Matt <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">