I've decided to swap in some wider axles under my CJ and figure to do a SOA conversion at the same time.

After reading in a recent magazine about off-set springs (so that the axle isn't mounted in the center of the spring) I'm really thinking about getting custom spring packs made locally. I'm wanting to have the springs made 9" longer than stock Wrangler springs with approx the same spring rate. The distance from the frame mount to the axle will be 9" longer, the distance from the axle to the shackle will be the same.

I can have the main leaf made from a variety of thicknesses. I'm thinking that a thicker spring will resist spring wrap and sagging better. The question is, how thick to make it. Any suggestions? Anyone done this?

ever look at waggy springs. The fronts are a little longer then the wrangler springs and are offset. You could just run waggy fronts all around. :beer:

I thought about waggy springs... I'll take some measurements when I get the front axle from the boneyard. I think they are 3-4" offset, is that about right?

Getting an offset spring is the first reason I was thinking of a custom spring pack. The second reason I was thinking custom was to use a thicker main leaf and hopefully prolong spring life, as well as counteract spring wrap.

- Mike

Won't there be more spring wrap with a longer spring?

Originally posted by WideJ
Won't there be more spring wrap with a longer spring?

Yea, a longer spring, same thickness will wrap more. Which is why I'm leaning more toward a custom spring and away from the Waggy springs. A thicker main leaf should help aleviate some of the spring wrap, and because the spring is longer, the wrap is "spread out" more so hopefully they won't sag as quickly. At least thats my theory -- hoping someone here could help disprove or prove my theory.

- Mike

if all you are worried about is spring wrap, why don't you just buy or make a anti-wrap bar. Then if your springs ever wear out, they are cheap and easy to replace

oh yeah, i think the offset is 2 inches. 22.5/24.5

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
if all you are worried about is spring wrap, why don't you just buy or make a anti-wrap bar.

Actually the original idea was to go with longer springs for better (usable) flex... kind of the same idea as the longer control arms for the 3 and 4 link setups. Being longer, the springs likely will inhibit more wrap, so to counter act this I was thinking thicker main leaf.

I'm not overly concerned with spring wrap however, as this will mostly be a trailer queen and mainly used for rock crawling. I doubt it will ever see serious mud or sand. Some spring wrap is expected, but too much is unacceptable.

I have thought about making an anti-wrap bar, I was hoping to see how the custom springs worked first, then add one if needed.

- Mike

Mike: Couple points. First, one factor of a spring's "flexibility" is the thickness of the leaves. Generally, a thinner leaf will flex better than a thicker one. If I were having custom springs built for rockcrawling, I'd go for a bunch of think leaves vs. a fewer number of thicker ones.

Second, you WILL have spring wrap. Guaranteed. Better to address the situation on the front side. I broke three (yes, three) rear drivelines in the first eight months of being SOA before I built a traction bar. All three were broken from excess spring wrap while rockcrawling.
Dion

Originally posted by AzXTV


Actually the original idea was to go with longer springs for better (usable) flex... kind of the same idea as the longer control arms for the 3 and 4 link setups. Being longer, the springs likely will inhibit more wrap, so to counter act this I was thinking thicker main leaf.

I'm not overly concerned with spring wrap however, as this will mostly be a trailer queen and mainly used for rock crawling. I doubt it will ever see serious mud or sand. Some spring wrap is expected, but too much is unacceptable.

I have thought about making an anti-wrap bar, I was hoping to see how the custom springs worked first, then add one if needed.

- Mike

spring wrap will happen when rockcrawling!!! what gave you the idea that it wouldn't?

ever look at ford rears? 53" overall-24"/29" split. there 3" wide but your building custom hangers anyway, plus there from a vehicle that came with a v-8 and weighed more than your jeep(good flex, less axle wrap):beer:

I had custom springs built for my soa cj-7 with the m.o.r.e. srs kit. I used stock length, off set the center bolt 2.5 inches, and had the rear eye reverse wrapped. A local shop (Rocky Mt. Spring) build them after driving the Jeep there on Wrangler springs so he could see what I wanted. They charged me $170. great deal.

My ride is also a daily driver, so I wasn't too concerned about giving up a little flex. On the old springs, when braking, the axle would wrap the pinion over 7 inches. I judged this by looking in a store window's reflection while braking. This is when most of the wrap comes from in the front. What a difference reverse wrapping the eye made. Similar to a factory Rancharger setup. The Jeep still flexes real good, and I am very happy with it. The 35's fit nicely inside the fender without any clearance issues. Again this is also my dd, and not a tq.

There was an article in JP magazine about a year ago about how to combine two full sets of YJ springs into one set for SOA (I think the end result was 7 leaves) that was more resistant to spring wrap.
If I remember correctly, all fronts were used as the basis for the packs (5 leaves). The main leaves from the rears were cut just longer than half and put on the front side of the packs so they would only be used to counteract spring wrap. Then one other leaf was taken out and two more from the rear pack were put in.
If anyone is interested I can see if I can find the article.

-Chaz
'93 yj diywip
collecting parts to be ready for EJS 2002
(still need d30 4.88 & locker)
:D :goofball:

Jeep-Jam: I built my springs like that article said. Guess what (read my previous post)? It don't prevent spring wrap. Traction bar, baby.
Dion

Originally posted by high5
spring wrap will happen when rockcrawling!!! what gave you the idea that it wouldn't?

I didn't mean to imply that it wouldn't, just that (especially with an automatic) it wouldn't do it as much as if I were running mainly in sand or mud. Maybe I'm thinking more of Wheel Hop (rapid wrapping and unwrapping of the spring) than just spring wrap.

Maybe I should just hang the rear with shackles at each end of the spring and go with a 4 link...

- Mike

Thanks to all that responded.

I guess I'll go with leaves about the same thickness as a YJ and just make a traction bar when I do the conversion.


Dion,

How well do you like the traction bar you've added? We may have to hit a trail again so I can check out the mods you've made. I think the last time I saw your Jeep was at the ASA4WDC Jamboree in 2000 (I lead Jack Handle).

- Mike

Mike: Wow my rig's changed a bunch since then. There's another post called "painted my junk" with some newer pics. I also posted a thread a while back about the bar my friend Blake and I built. You could search for that to see pics. Otherwise, yeah, I usually wheel just about every weekend.
Dion

When I made my springs I went with all YJ rear 5 leafs, and added 2 extra leafs to each pack.

I took two sets of YJs 4 5 leafs, 4 4 leafs. I took the 4 leafs apart took the main leafs, Cut the eyes off. Then I took the leaf directly under that(secondary leaf). On the 5 leaf packs I took the main leaf with the eyes cut off from the 4 packs and added it under the main leaf on the 5 pack, I then added the secondary leaf on top of the main leaf on the 5 pack..

It came out like this

http://wheelingpiazzas.com/pictures/brakes/DCP00476.JPG

Will it wrap? Yes.. I can just about get it todo it on the jack stands.. I will be adding a traction bar very soon..

I'm going with XJ springs. they were designed to be used in a spring over configuration.
I redrilled the rear packs so I could move the rear axle back.
the XJ springs with the big eye forward has the center pin offset about 6 inches forward or so. I moved the centerpin back abpout 2.5 inches back from the center of the spring.
Doing this I knew that I would end up doing away with the naturat anti wrap characteristics of the spring so I Tore apart another set I had laying around and I sorta made a military style wrap leaf out of the main leafs. For the front the XJ springs lined up perfectly with the big eye forward and mounted up with a shackle reversal.

the shackle reversal and the offset of the centerpin relocated my front axle forward about 4 inches.

I think I have some pics of it all some place.

Dion I ended up at the Table Mesa air down at the same time as you did last Sat. I did not know or pay enough attention that you had added a traction bar I would like to check it out next time as it is in my future also now that I have gone SOA. Catch you next time for some good info. Jim F.

Originally posted by AzXTV



I'm not overly concerned with spring wrap however, as this will mostly be a trailer queen and mainly used for rock crawling. I doubt it will ever see serious mud or sand. Some spring wrap is expected, but too much is unacceptable.



:eek: HAHAHAHAHAH :eek: thank you, you made may day alot better, I seriously got a laugh out of this.

Rockcrawling will induce MORE axle wrap then just about any other activity (low range torque + narly tire gripping narly rock = major wrap) like you said less wheel hop then sand maybe but more wrap. Also more thinner leafs will flex better then thicker ones. get a good anti wrap bar and be happy :D