"By request"

In order of pricing (4wp) Least expensive first

Swamper TSL 38x12.5x15
SSR 37x12.5x15
TSL/SX 38.5x14.5x15
Thornbird 38.5x14.5x15
TSL Radial 38x15.5x15

Vehicle: Daily driver
Sierra offerings & Nevada desert, rocks & hard on sidewalls, slickrock twice a year and mud/snow only when I gotta.

From what I can tell:

TSL's nice gnarly tire, would hum like a $2 whore on the highway.
http://www.intercotire.com/assets/images/super_swamper_tsl-200.jpg

SSR's, I like these but I've heard of several people tossing lugs, alot. Premature wearing. Compound too soft???
http://www.intercotire.com/assets/images/ssr_sswamper_radial-200.jpg

TSL/SX Gnarliest of the Gnarlies. possibly wouldn't do best for contact patch aired down over a softer sidewall. Other side, it possibly has the strongest sidewall. Should be excellent for rocks but possibly too hard for wet traction?
http://www.intercotire.com/assets/images/sswamper_tsl_sx-200.jpg

Thornbird, relatively tame but aggressive enough to make it in consideration. Appears to may have the best highway tread design. The contact patch would be awesome for Moab. Downside, doesn't impress the 16 year old cheerleaders as much as the TSL's would. :D
http://www.intercotire.com/assets/images/interco_tsl_thornbird-200.jpg

The TSL radial, a compromise tire but has it's value on a DD however it is 100 bucks more than it's biased brother. OUCH.
http://www.intercotire.com/assets/images/super_swamper_radial_tsl-200.jpg

What I don't know is the softness or lack thereof in the compound. So I'm going to rely on what you've run or at least have first hand experiance with.

I'm tossed but leaning towards the Thornbird for the DD part. I just wonder how well the Thornbirds do in the rocks and in the case of Fordyce, wet rocks.

What's your two bits?

I changed my vote.... go SSR :cool2:

Thanks David.

So are the TSL/SX's too stiff for good wet traction compared to the SSR's????

So far the voting isn't determining a clear winner.

I voted for the radials..why worry about saving $$ at this point Michael ;)

2nd vote would be the SSR's

Thornbirds are nightmares on the wet from what fellow club members have experienced.

If the Traxxus came that big I would seriousley consider them

I was in the same delema over TSL's or SX's. Only mine were for trail only. I ordered 36x12.5" SX's Tuesday just for the side lugs and better "word of mounth". Get the TSL's or SX's and sip them! They will last a lot longer and grip better on/off road. My two sipped 33x12.5" TSL Bias are wearing like iron compared to front two that are not. They are balanced great too :eek: Good luck on balanceing a 38" tire though.

:usa:

If you were saying just for a trail rig, I'd definitely go with the SXs. They seem to have the toughest sidewall, most versatile tread, and the advantage of wearing pretty well on the rocks. However, by putting them on a DD, you are wasting an awesome off-road tire by leaving that nice rubber all over the road and you'll be suffering the poor ride and noise of the bias ply tire. I'd vote for the SSRs. Yes, they may not last quite as long as some of the others, but I think you will be happiest with these on the road and they seem to do quite well offroad as well.

That said, the only definite no of all of these tires is the Thornbirds. Yes, they look like they'd be great onroad and off, but they're extremely noisy onroad, tough to balance, and they don't have enough biting edges offroad. Some say they're good in mud and I think that's because they float up on some of the mud and use the edges as paddles rather than digging down. Sort of like the boggers in that they're a specialized tire and not likely to make you happy.

So.. All in all, SSRs seem to be the way to go. And yes, that's the conclusion I came to and i'm now running 37x12.50R15 SSRs on my truck. Of course, if the Goodyear MT/Rs weren't so darn expensive, I'd run those instead since they seem to have slightly better rock performance and a much stronger sidewall.

-John

i voted SX, but you could gain another 1.4" with the 39.5 TSL's that is the road i am going. what i REALLY wish for is a 38.5x14.5 Bogger...now that would be the sheit

The sx's ride nicer than the tsl's couldn't believe the difference when i swapped up to the sx's.

TSL's all the way!! :D

I voted b-fore reading again.....I voyed sx's but I think I would go ssr's if it was a road mostly machine. They still have stronger sidewalls then bfg's.

I'm still interested in seeing how this comes out.

However, I went down to the Lester Schwabby and bought the TSL/SX's. I'm glad to see that a lot of what I'm thinking is panning out with the majority on these.

I didn't go with the SSR's, which I really like, but have heard too many complaints about lugs falling off and basically not lasting very long, especially on a dual purpose vehicle.

My thoughts are that after I'm all built out, I'll drive the p/u mostly then get me a little commuter for my 15 mile trip to and from work.

Course with what everyone is saying about CA laws, I might be buying a trailer. :( And not one for hauling shit behind on the trail.

Keep the voting coming, this is definately interesting.

TSL's...a nice medium between the SSR's and SX's, so you can still get some sidewall flex. you'll eat the SSR's alive.

I voted TSL/SX just for side wall strength. I know guys that don't even run a spare anymore because there so tough.

where is the bogger option

You are all overlooking the obvious. :rolleyes:

The choice is clear. :eek:

THORNBIRDS are the only ones with a raised white letter sidewall!! :flipoff2:


Pete

Oh yeah, the thornbirds come with the custom "hydroplane on any type of wet surface" feature too.

SXs. tires are expensive and i dont see any advantage to a tire that lasts longer on the highway if you have a big hole in the sidewall.;)

My only first hand experience and thus actual advice is to NOT GET THORNBIRDS!!!
My first set were 21x12.50s on my DD for looks (I thought they were cool:confused:
They sucked. They rode like boggers and sounded almost as bad. I couldnt balence them with that powder crap or numerouns on and off the truck balencing. Sold them for 100 bucks with 5,000K on them.

Now I have thornbirds on my trail rig, 35x14.50s (came with the truck). While I am glad that they were nice size tires on the truck, that still does not change the fact that they suck balls.

I hate thronbirds. The only good they are is in the mud. They make nice paddles. I never had any problem with them hydroplaning, but I can see how they could be prone to do that.

So anyway, just dont get them, you will be disapointed, gauranteed.

My brother had 35 ssrs. They rode and sounded like an allterrain on road and performed well off. He only took them offroad about 4 times though before he traded them for a D60 front and is saving for some 44s.

Good luck!

Originally posted by TyTy
My only first hand experience and thus actual advice is to NOT GET THORNBIRDS!!!
My first set were 21x12.50s on my DD for looks (I thought they were cool:confused:
They sucked. They rode like boggers and sounded almost as bad. I couldnt balence them with that powder crap or numerouns on and off the truck balencing. Sold them for 100 bucks with 5,000K on them.

Now I have thornbirds on my trail rig, 35x14.50s (came with the truck). While I am glad that they were nice size tires on the truck, that still does not change the fact that they suck balls.

I hate thronbirds. The only good they are is in the mud. They make nice paddles. I never had any problem with them hydroplaning, but I can see how they could be prone to do that.

So anyway, just dont get them, you will be disapointed, gauranteed.

My brother had 35 ssrs. They rode and sounded like an allterrain on road and performed well off. He only took them offroad about 4 times though before he traded them for a D60 front and is saving for some 44s.

Good luck!

hehe you said suck balls!:D

if you don't like the thornbirds on your trail rig then get a tire grover and have at them. i bet you could actually make them a decent tire. it is worth a shot.

I am running SSRs on my daily driver Dodge Ram 1500 ext. cab. Heavy truck one C-rated tires. Have about 12k on them right now and the first step of the center lugs is almost gone, about 1/16" left til I start running on the lower portion. If you've seen them, you know what part I am talking about.

The front and rears seem to wear nearly the same, even with the Detroit in the back. Front is open. Also run the same pressure all around, 32psi and have noticably slowed the overall wear.

Awesome in mud and much better than I expected on wet and dry pavement. Good stopping ability still. I still worry more about flipping my tall and heavy truck on an onramp than I do breaking loose.

The sidewall lugs/chevrons are awesome, they have lifted the front end of my truck up the side of both rocks and ruts several times. The sidewall does not flex like a bias ply, but they do pretty good and I rarely go below 20 psi (heavy truck).

They stick well to the dirt, rocks, mud and pavement. I have not had them in the snow or ice yet, but the siping in those conditions would be a big plus. Do notice a bit of chunking, but nothing like the horror stories I heard of the original versions.

I'd buy them again if they didn't wear so fast. Next one will be MT/Rs most likley unless I can afford 2 set of tires and wheels.

I goofed and picked TSL Radial when I meant to pick SSR. SSR because they have sipes and I live in a wet climate. I like Thornbirds for off road but for a daily they are too loud and follow every rut.

I voted for SXs.

But any tire you chose, will be better after it is grooved and siped.

Siping is great for road use. it makes the tire wear more even and give you more traction in wet/icy condition. Definately worth the money.

I have 38.5x14.50 SXs. Well, 2 of them right now....

For Moab the tire would be SSR's & for daily driver. For all else BOGGERS but since your :rainbow: you didn't add those to the list!:flipoff2:

I have run 35*12.50 SSR's on my FJ40 under similar conditions you are disscribing (DD and off road/rocks/mud). THey held up relatively well and I only tore a sidewall at the Hammers (but so did my buddys with MT/R's and Claws).

That said - for a ligher truck, like a P/U or FJ40/Jeep I'd still consider the SSR's for DD and trail use. For a heavier truck like a full size P/U or a FJ60 or FJ80, I'd go with the TSL/SX - a bit more $$ but better for the extra weight.

Originally posted by TJ Chick
For Moab the tire would be SSR's & for daily driver. For all else BOGGERS but since your :rainbow: you didn't add those to the list!:flipoff2: BWAHHAHAHA! So far two votes for Boggers, let see that's one less than Thornybirds. :flipoff2:

Actually I never considered the boggies as a worthwhile investment on a dual purpose vehicle.

get boggers and then get a tow rig! :D

38.50x11x15 all the way

but if you're not getting boggers, i'd say get TSLs or SXs. i dunno bout rocks, but TSLs are better than SXs in mud (so i hear ;))

Belly Dragger, my TSL/SX's are siped. If I can make it to your club meeting Thursday, you can see them.

Shaffer siped them before I bought them from him. These will run me to and from the Reno airport and then the trail.

Ok, so why the slamming of the thornbirds? First off, let me say that I do not think they are any better than the other interco tires mentioned here, but the complaints about them in this thread would hold true for nearly all interco tires with maybe the exception of the radials. The complaints were, hard to balance, loud as hell, etc etc. My buddy has a set on his bronco, and I have ridden with him when it was wet, and noticed no death skid or hydroplaning of his rig at highway speeds even. Down here in Tennessee lots of people run them, probably for the reason mentioned above, they are good in the mud. I have witnessed them in the mud, and they are awesome for that purpose in my opinion. They do get flat spots in the them easily like any bias ply. I just don't see what makes them that much worse than other bias ply tires. With all of that being said, I did not care for a tire that was hard to balance/out of round etc, since I drive my truck to work a good bit, so I got BFG tires. It took very little weight to balance them compared to a interco tire, and they are not that loud. Also weigh half what a bias ply does.

uh, dont let this guy ruin your image of TN.. were not all crazy


- jake

Originally posted by 81hilux
Ok, so why the slamming of the thornbirds? First off, let me say that I do not think they are any better than the other interco tires mentioned here, but the complaints about them in this thread would hold true for nearly all interco tires with maybe the exception of the radials. The complaints were, hard to balance, loud as hell, etc etc. My buddy has a set on his bronco, and I have ridden with him when it was wet, and noticed no death skid or hydroplaning of his rig at highway speeds even. Down here in Tennessee lots of people run them, probably for the reason mentioned above, they are good in the mud. I have witnessed them in the mud, and they are awesome for that purpose in my opinion. They do get flat spots in the them easily like any bias ply. I just don't see what makes them that much worse than other bias ply tires. With all of that being said, I did not care for a tire that was hard to balance/out of round etc, since I drive my truck to work a good bit, so I got BFG tires. It took very little weight to balance them compared to a interco tire, and they are not that loud. Also weigh half what a bias ply does.

81Hilux, Ilive in Tennessee also, and I have seen from personal experience the EXACT opposite of what you have seen with Thornchickens, I mean Thornbirds. They hydroplane easily, and they don't have anymore traction off road and in mud then a BFG. The only way I would own any thornbirda was if somebody gave them to me. And I would only keep them long enough to find some sucker to sell them too. I ran BFG 35's and they are a great street tire. They have ok traction off road, but the sidewalls are like paper. I tore out 2 sidewalls in about 15 feet brushing a tree that was down on the ground. The end of the tree was rounded like the end of a baseball bat and the same size. 2 4 inch long rips right through the sidewall. On tires with less than 500 miles on them.:mad3: For my vote it would be Boggers, SX's and TSL's.

I honestly can't believe someone would go to bat for a Thornbird.

I have lived in Louisiana and I wheel out west and I can tell you there is NO application for a Thornbird except on a 4 cyl YJ with a 3" body lift and lots of chrome.

As for the best Interco, I have owned TSLs, TSL Radials, SSRs, Boggers and SX's.

SX's by far work the best in a variety or terrain AND they ride better on the road than TSL's.

I run mine at 15lbs on the road and they are great. On the trail they are unmatched.

I just wish they would make a 40" SX.

how much better are the SX's on the road than TSL's- assuming they are both siped.



- jake

Originally posted by dncswrk
Belly Dragger, my TSL/SX's are siped. If I can make it to your club meeting Thursday, you can see them.

Shaffer siped them before I bought them from him. These will run me to and from the Reno airport and then the trail. Sweet looking forward to it!

Originally posted by wngrog
There is NO application for a Thornbird except on a 4 cyl YJ with a 3" body lift and lots of chrome.

:beer: For sure

"uh, dont let this guy ruin your image of TN.. were not all crazy"

thanks for the open-minded compliment jake :mad3:

"I honestly can't believe someone would go to bat for a Thornbird. "

I am NOT going to bat for the thornbird, If that was the case, then I would have a set on my Toyota, instead of BFG's. As I stated earlier, I did not want some of the headaches associated with ALL bias ply tires, weight, balancing probs, roundess issues, etc. This is why I chose the BFG. I know the sidewalls are thin, and one of these days, when I don't have to drive my truck as much as I do now, then I can get 37 or 38 inch bias plys which are obviously superior on the trail. However, I've seen several Thornbirds in action, and I would not say they totally suck. I've driven a friends full size blazer equipped with them, and I can assure you that it had no problems tearing up the mud, or pulling stuck 4x4 full size dodges and various other trucks out often times in 2 wheel drive for the hell of it. Now this truck had a built 350 w/ a cam and other mods, so it had no problems at all cleaning out the tires. One problem w/ the birds and any bias ply tire is people are afraid to air them down nearly all the way where they will grip. I'm sure it would depend on what type of mud you were in etc. And I'd like to add that I've only seen these tires on large trucks, broncos, blazers etc, and I've had no dealings with them on a smaller truck or jeep, so I'm sure that would add to the hydroplane/weird road manners. I agree these aren't the best to spend big money on and buy new, but if one ran across a used set for cheap, or bought a rig with them already on it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Originally posted by Mitsuzu
I voted for the radials..why worry about saving $$ at this point Michael ;)

2nd vote would be the SSR's

Thornbirds are nightmares on the wet from what fellow club members have experienced.

If the Traxxus came that big I would seriousley consider them

Those things (thornbirds) came on my jeep when I bought it. 33x12.50's.

OMG, you have NO idea how bad they are when the rock has even a hint of moisture on it. LOL I've gotten my a$$ whooped by radial passenger car tires on wet rock.

Bonus to the thornbird... they teach you how to drive and pick your lines.

On the 33x12.50's on my Jeep right now.. Once I get them aired down to 2-4psi they work pretty good. Just gotta watch blowing the beads.

Originally posted by 81hilux
"uh, dont let this guy ruin your image of TN.. were not all crazy"

thanks for the open-minded compliment jake :mad3:

"I honestly can't believe someone would go to bat for a Thornbird. "

I am NOT going to bat for the thornbird, If that was the case, then I would have a set on my Toyota, instead of BFG's. As I stated earlier, I did not want some of the headaches associated with ALL bias ply tires, weight, balancing probs, roundess issues, etc. This is why I chose the BFG. I know the sidewalls are thin, and one of these days, when I don't have to drive my truck as much as I do now, then I can get 37 or 38 inch bias plys which are obviously superior on the trail. However, I've seen several Thornbirds in action, and I would not say they totally suck. I've driven a friends full size blazer equipped with them, and I can assure you that it had no problems tearing up the mud, or pulling stuck 4x4 full size dodges and various other trucks out often times in 2 wheel drive for the hell of it. Now this truck had a built 350 w/ a cam and other mods, so it had no problems at all cleaning out the tires. One problem w/ the birds and any bias ply tire is people are afraid to air them down nearly all the way where they will grip. I'm sure it would depend on what type of mud you were in etc. And I'd like to add that I've only seen these tires on large trucks, broncos, blazers etc, and I've had no dealings with them on a smaller truck or jeep, so I'm sure that would add to the hydroplane/weird road manners. I agree these aren't the best to spend big money on and buy new, but if one ran across a used set for cheap, or bought a rig with them already on it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Originally posted by wngrog

I just wish they would make a 40" SX.



you and me both!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad:

I wish they would get to work!!!!!

Adam,

I vote for ssr's

Originally posted by toymaniac
I voted b-fore reading again.....I voyed sx's but I think I would go ssr's if it was a road mostly machine. They still have stronger sidewalls then bfg's.

Rotten Bananas have stronger side walls than BFG's

Five in one season and counting...

TSL's mounted, and on the Bronco

BFG's in garage in the corner....and they may still achive a side wall cut in that enviornment.

BFG=Banana like sidewalls, failure prone, Garbage

:flipoff2: BFG

Originally posted by wngrog
I honestly can't believe someone would go to bat for a Thornbird.

I have lived in Louisiana and I wheel out west and I can tell you there is NO application for a Thornbird except on a 4 cyl YJ with a 3" body lift and lots of chrome.

:rolleyes: Then let me ask you this Mr. tire expert. Have you ever run Thornbirds? I ran Thornbirds for over 4 years and they took me everywhere I wanted to go.

Originally posted by bronco78


Rotten Bananas have stronger side walls than BFG's
:flipoff2: BFG


lmfao!!!

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


:rolleyes: Then let me ask you this Mr. tire expert. Have you ever run Thornbirds? I ran Thornbirds for over 4 years and they took me everywhere I wanted to go.

yeah but the grocery store doesn't count!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


:rolleyes: Then let me ask you this Mr. tire expert. Have you ever run Thornbirds? I ran Thornbirds for over 4 years and they took me everywhere I wanted to go.

Uh no, but I have wheeled extensively with people that had them and I am speaking from experience. They suck. Sorry.

;)

Thornbirds are LAME!!!!!!!!!!Lame in the mud(compared to all the other interco tires,BFG's,Mud Kings,aquatreds...whatever),lame in the snow and ice(seen it myself,could hardly believe my eyes)even on a locked rig,really,really,really lame on loose and silty soil.I would like to suggest that you have picked the best swamper for your needs.We all wish that we could rush out and pick up a set too!

I drive approx 60 mi a day in my YJ, on my 35x12.5 SSR's, I'm about 50% and they are pretty damn streetable, even when wet.
They are noisy but hey what isnt?

They wheel good, I would say almost as good as the other Porn Stars SX's. However they dont flex quite as much.

I run 26-28lbs on the street and down to 6.5lbs off.

as long as my rig is a DD I will use em, but after I get a DD, then it will be SX's :D

I voted for the SX's. I currently have SX's and have owned TSL's, and TSL radials, I siped the radials and the SX's and found that the SX"s work better than the radials did on wet pavement and snow, hands down. Offroad the SX's are the best tire I've owned, sure they're 10 ply but Ive given them alot of sidewall abuse and there isnt one cut, I sliced the sidwall out of the radial on a dirt logging road(how embarrassing). I only wish they made SX's larger than 38" I want to get a them again next time I change tires But I want to step up to 40 or 42's next time, what a delema.

I like my SSR's and my friends other varities of Swampers, but Boggers RULE.

Originally posted by high5


yeah but the grocery store doesn't count!:flipoff2:

Maybe the grocery store doesn't count but you should see the parking lot for the soccer field. :flipoff2::flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Boggers all the way! The only time they see the pavement is when Im driving to the trails. Otherwise I use my mazda p/u around town. Nothing bad to say about them at all. Besides I like the noise! I can tell how fast Im going by the noise coming from my tires. 150db=70mph!:flipoff2:

I ve drove all the swamper, except Boggers and the TSl radials


I liked the SX's far as ride, SSR's were quiter and rode better the my BFG muds I had but they were new also - And thornbirds OMG they were louder then the set of TSL's and wandered BAD!!! I think overall id use the TSL's didn't hum too to bad really and did good all around.

Im prolly gonna put some Q78's on my toy or set of Claws or a ... . . .. . . . . .

I ran the 38" Radials on my 95 Bronco for some time. I really disliked their performance. They wore quickly and did not ever perform well in the mud for me at all. I switched to the 38.5" SXs and everything got better (including the fact that the SX is a much larger tire than the 38" radial). I also use 36" SXs on my Willys for the rocks and they seem to work well there as well. My vote goes to the SXs.

-Matt

My first set were 21x12.50s on my DD for looks (I thought they were cool

How low was your vehicle to fit 21" tall tires on it:D

I'd guess you meant 31";)


Anywho, I had 36" TSLs and liked them for everything except the damm shaking on the road:mad:

I'd say go TSL SX 38.5x14.5 but I haven't been able to even wheel mine yet:(

If you have to drive the thing to work your just gonna hate how fast your big $$$ tires wear so keep that in mind.

I know you already bought the SXs but maybe buy a set of street 35s for daily driving.

You said you wheel in the nevada desert, I am not to familiar with that area, but moab doesn't need a thick sidewall and Fordyce and rubicon aren't that bad on sidewalls either in my opinion. So I say of those choices go SSR or try out the BFG 37" mud terrain. It also depends how long your daily commute is and how often you wheel it. If you do get a radial try to get Americas tire company to match 4wpw prices and get road hazard.

21" tires??????



Damn those are some big meats:D
I want a set of those for my car:eek: :eek: to bad there 23's how bout a swamper in 205/50/15? :smokin: :smokin: