Put an offer in on a house last night. Crossing my fingers on this one...

Anyway, it has 150amp service. What does it take to upgrade this to 200amp?

Little concerned about running a compressor, welder and entire house at the same time...

Thanks!

Here in Cleveland I have to:

Call the company. They have to make sure the drop to your house is up to snuff, and install a 200 amp meter.

You have to at least replace your main breakers, so they can carry the extra 50 amps you may need without tripping.

This may be a good time to replace your fuses or breaker box with a 30 position or better box.

Here, I have to have the power company come out if I replace my main fuses and/or box. They don't want me or an electrician touching anything connected to their meter.

Once it's past my main fuses, it's all mine, and basically subject to a regular inspection.

CHECK in your area with an electrician, different companies have diff policies.

Around here phoning the power company and telling them you get brown outs once in a while,more noticeably when a neighbour runs any electric motors and they will upgrade the wiring from your house to the pole for free.I've got enough wire coming from the pole to carry 400amps if I wanted for free.
It normally costs ~300$.

Originally posted by R O
Around here phoning the power company and telling them you get brown outs once in a while,more noticeably when a neighbour runs any electric motors and they will upgrade the wiring from your house to the pole for free.I've got enough wire coming from the pole to carry 400amps if I wanted for free.
It normally costs ~300$.

Finally, RO contributes to the board instead of spamming a bunch of bullshit! :flipoff2:

ooo... timeline info, as we are in the process of buying a house here.. please don't kill for the minor thread hijack.

we would have a main switch/fuse box, then it goes to the panel. Anyone know roughly how much it costs to upgrade that sucker to a 400A service so I can run a 200A panel to the future shop? House itself already has 200A service.

I'll admit it, I'm afraid to touch anything with THAT much juice running through it. I'de just assume pay someone LOL

Originally posted by rockota
Put an offer in on a house last night. Crossing my fingers on this one...

Anyway, it has 150amp service. What does it take to upgrade this to 200amp?

Little concerned about running a compressor, welder and entire house at the same time...

Thanks!

one thing to keep in mind, most compressors only consume aroudn 15A, the welder probably at most 50A, and neither are usually running at the same time. Only concern I might have is when one day you wanted to start running plasma when you are going to be pulling both at once.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
ooo... timeline info, as we are in the process of buying a house here.. please don't kill for the minor thread hijack.

we would have a main switch/fuse box, then it goes to the panel. Anyone know roughly how much it costs to upgrade that sucker to a 400A service so I can run a 200A panel to the future shop? House itself already has 200A service.

I'll admit it, I'm afraid to touch anything with THAT much juice running through it. I'de just assume pay someone LOL

I think it's valid - no hijack in my opinion... If I can go from 150 to 300, hell, I'll do it. I too want a sub-panel in the garage/shop.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


one thing to keep in mind, most compressors only consume aroudn 15A, the welder probably at most 50A, and neither are usually running at the same time. Only concern I might have is when one day you wanted to start running plasma when you are going to be pulling both at once.

Yup... didn't mention the Plasma...

I have had running all at the same time:
Plasma
compressor
chop saw
grinder
TV
Tunes
lights
heat...

That's what happens when you get a bunch of guys together to wrench. I don't think 150amp for the house and shop will cut it.. :(

Originally posted by rusted


Finally, RO contributes to the board instead of spamming a bunch of bullshit! :flipoff2:


:crybaby:
:flipoff2:

Originally posted by rockota


I think it's valid - no hijack in my opinion... If I can go from 150 to 300, hell, I'll do it. I too want a sub-panel in the garage/shop.

What I was going to shoot for was hook up another leg to the main fuse/breaker panel in the basement, before it got to the house panel. So the garage Panel may/may not be called a main panel. Thing I'm not 100% on is how the grounding works out.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


What I was going to shoot for was hook up another leg to the main fuse/breaker panel in the basement, before it got to the house panel. So the garage Panel may/may not be called a main panel. Thing I'm not 100% on is how the grounding works out.

Never seen it done that way.. but I'm not a guru either. I'm just planning on running a 100 amp circuit from the main panel to a sub in the garage.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


What I was going to shoot for was hook up another leg to the main fuse/breaker panel in the basement, before it got to the house panel. So the garage Panel may/may not be called a main panel. Thing I'm not 100% on is how the grounding works out.

must have a suitable ground electrode at service(main) and must bond sub panel. sizing bonding jumpers can really depend on how far away the sub panel is from your main. i dont know about out there but in the bay area all pipes(water, gas) must also be bonded with 5 feet of entering a building(your shop).

the size of electrical service totally depends on the size of your service conductors coming from the pole.

Originally posted by rockota


Never seen it done that way.. but I'm not a guru either. I'm just planning on running a 100 amp circuit from the main panel to a sub in the garage.

ok, lets review your list of equipment:

Plasma 35A
compressor 15A
chop saw 15A
grinder 10A
TV 1-2A
Tunes 1-5A
lights 5A?
heat... (is it electric?)

I figure when you have your buddies over, you'll be consuming a fairly easy 80A of electricity, not counting startup current. Is 100A service to the garage enough? personally, I like a little headroom. Specially if I did have friends over and while one is plasma'ing, someone else starts welding.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
we would have a main switch/fuse box, then it goes to the panel. Anyone know roughly how much it costs to upgrade that sucker to a 400A service so I can run a 200A panel to the future shop? House itself already has 200A service.


WATCH OUT!!!

Around here the minute you say "400A" service.... that is a commercial account. $$$ higher billing rates. :eek:

Turns out there is a "residential 320A" Service that can supply up to 400 Amp PEAK, but still billed as residential service. ??? Yep the 320Amp meter can do 400 Amp, but is used in residential use (some homes are fully electric heated!)

Talked with the folks at the Power Company (very sweet little old lady) who warned me that if I asked for 400A service, it flags all sorts of warnings. However if I have a SEPERATE service installed for another 200 Amps for the "garage" no problem. :) In my case a second pole & wiring to the pole. $700.

Tom :usa:

Originally posted by Travis Waldher

compressor 15A
chop saw 15A
grinder 10A


how did you figure that these tools use so much current? i think this is an over-estimation. but, if you have an ammeter and have actually shown that these tools use so much while running, i'd be glad to know.

Originally posted by mellocj


how did you figure that these tools use so much current? i think this is an over-estimation. but, if you have an ammeter and have actually shown that these tools use so much while running, i'd be glad to know.

I haven't... I just pulled some numbers outta my ass, and partially from memory as to what they say they consumed on the device itself. Between startup current and loading down the machine it wouldn't suprise me, I certainly woudlnt' want to setup shop with service that I think could be inadequate. That can be an expensive mistake to make.

These are about right, but you don't need to have them all on the same 120V leg. Split your 120V loads between legs and you'd only need 40A on a 120/240V service. I would think 100A would be plenty for a small shop, depending on the welder/cutter/heat being used.

My entire house/garage is 100A service (gas heat/stove/HW), but I don't have 3 guys over working at the same time, so the welder/plasma/chop saw, etc are only used 1 at a time.


Originally posted by Travis Waldher


ok, lets review your list of equipment:

Plasma 35A
compressor 15A
chop saw 15A
grinder 10A
TV 1-2A
Tunes 1-5A
lights 5A?
heat... (is it electric?)

I figure when you have your buddies over, you'll be consuming a fairly easy 80A of electricity, not counting startup current. Is 100A service to the garage enough? personally, I like a little headroom. Specially if I did have friends over and while one is plasma'ing, someone else starts welding.

ok.. so some electrical newbie tech.


When they say 200A service, thats for each leg or combined?

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


ok, lets review your list of equipment:

Plasma 35A
compressor 15A
chop saw 15A
grinder 10A
TV 1-2A
Tunes 1-5A
lights 5A?
heat... (is it electric?)

I figure when you have your buddies over, you'll be consuming a fairly easy 80A of electricity, not counting startup current. Is 100A service to the garage enough? personally, I like a little headroom. Specially if I did have friends over and while one is plasma'ing, someone else starts welding.

That's about right, I'd say. Heat is (was) a radiant tube. Electrical draw was minor if anything - just the starter and thermostat. I did forget the ceiling fan, though. :D

My last two shops were 100amp and were just fine, and since this one will be smaller (just the garage for now), I anticipate less group-fabrication and therefore less amperage draw.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
ok.. so some electrical newbie tech.


When they say 200A service, thats for each leg or combined?

It's combined.

Originally posted by rusted


It's combined.

?

A 200A 120/240V service is 200A at 240V. If you have (2) 20A loads, 1 on each 120V leg, you will be drawing 20A on each leg from the utility (not 40A) and 0A on the neutral. If you put both loads on one leg, you will be drawing 40A on one leg, 40A on the neutral, and 0A on the other leg.

The power drawn from the utility is the same (20A*240V) = (40A*120V), but if you run all your loads on one leg, you'll only be able to use 1/2 the capacity of the panel. The main breaker will trip when either leg goes above the rating of the breaker (100A). Balance your loads between the legs :) for the highest capacity.

When we built the 30x30 shop at my mom's, we had an electrician come and change out the main panel and meter housing from the 100amp to a 200amp. I don't think the power company had to do anything to accomodate it.

I then put a 100amp panel in the shop, and ran 100' of 2/2/2/4 wire to the house panel, put a 100amp breaker in the house panel, and called it good.

In the shop I had two 220V compressors (on seperate 20amp circuits), a 50amp receptacle for the stick welder, 40amp for the powder-coating oven, plus a lot of outlets and a bunch of lights, a computer, stereo, etc.

Never had a problem with the 100amps not being enough. Both compressors could run just fine, even when using the arc welder for arc-air cutting.

I don't typically powder-coat, and even with a few friends over we never used enough juice to pop the 100amp (or any of the smaller breakers).

At my new place, I had a main panel on the side of the house, 200amp, with a panel in the basement for the "house".

I put a 100amp breaker in the outside box, ran 30' of 2/2/2/4 to a sub in the garage, and started wiring.

I don't anticipate any problems with the 100amp service to the shop here, either, even with a somewhat larger shop with more fabbing room, with the same power-hungry tools and then some new ones.

:D

Reality is, I doubt I'll have the stick welder, a 220 MIG, *and* a plasma cutter going all at once.

I only have two hands, and if we have a "fab day" at my shop, we'll just make sure those three items don't get used at the same time - and/or powdercoating, too. :D

Originally posted by R O
Around here phoning the power company and telling them you get brown outs once in a while,more noticeably when a neighbour runs any electric motors and they will upgrade the wiring from your house to the pole for free.I've got enough wire coming from the pole to carry 400amps if I wanted for free.
It normally costs ~300$.

Damn I'll have to try that one. neigbors A/C dims our lights when it starts. My fuse box is junk so I have thought about replacing it any way. I can pop the meter here as long as I warn them.