I am building a 51 CJ3A flattie up on 38's, D60, 14 bolt, link suspension, and want to get an aftermarket frame for it. I have heard mixed reviews on what I should get between AFW and Matkins. Anybody have any experience with either of these?

If you're building it, and already have a body, why wouldn't you just build your own frame? you could buy a bender, make a tube frame and make a cage all for less than those prices. Then you'd still have a bender at the end of the game.

AFW has some nice frames but Matkins are just plain beef, masivly overbuilt. I know the guy that runs matkins so I'd probably go with him.

as much as I thought the AFW frame would "the" way to go,

hence the formed bends, etc, I bought that version of the
cj7 frame rails. I wanted to make my own crossmembers,
mounts, etc.

what I didn't plan on doing was straightening out their f-ed
up bends.

some of the bends were not in the same plane as the other
side frame rail, the in-out dims were not correct either.

needless to say, their customer service (if you can call it that)
was non-ignistant....... none. zero. nada..

everytime I called requesting some sort of drawing, measurements, etc, I was told that information was confidential..

CONFIDENTIAL TO WHO-? I ALREADY BOUGHT THE FRIGGEN FRAME, NOW I NEED SOME DIMS TO ASSEMBLE IT.....

I got no information over the phone about my requests either.

so, although I still like the formed bends over the miter-cut/weld
frames, I would be hesitant to order bare rails again without
making damn sure I was getting frame-dim drawings up front...


--Sherpa

Well, I would like to run the AFW frame b/c it's lighter and less $$, so I guess what I am basically asking is will the AFW frame hold up well for my application, or should I be hesitant of its strength? Anybody know anyone has bent one?

I have the Matkins level III frame under my CJ-7 their customer service stinks, it took some work to straighten out some of the little bugs , but it is one beefy frame. I don't have any of the binding problems in the clutch like I did with the stock frame. I pitty the poor fool that pulls out in front of me.:D :D :D :D

Yeah, no kidding, I was told to go with a Level II if I were to get one from Matkins. Anyone else using an AFW?

I went with a Matkins level 2, beautiful awsome quality and I had really had great service. The guy drove the frame out and dropped it off at my home door personaly. Oh yeah, I live in Michigan and it was a Saturday.

Matkins also sells a mandrel bent frame to competed with the AWF version and its less $. I would definatly call Matkins first.

Tony

A Jeep frame only takes about 3 hours to make and 2.5 lengths of steel to build. Build the frame yourself.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/frame2.jpg

Nice Dean. What tube is that? 4x2x? 1/8?

I have a Lev III Cj-8 from Matkins. Killer frame 500# shipped. If you plan on wheeling hard core don't get a bent frame. That is to say a mandrel bent frame. A mitered and welded frame will be stronger than a bent frame. Plus the lev III has a killer warrenty. Bend it and they will replace it. That includes off road abuse. That being said the customer service is so so at best. I'm still waiting for my sales invoice and I paid for the frame in August. It also took twice as long to ship as they said. They said 3, it took 6. Of course I expected this and I kept bugging them and reminding them that they said 3. So not a biggie. Just be preparred for it. And I bought mine on special in August, free shipping! That saved me $660:eek: So if your not in a hurry wait till August and see if they run that special again. I didn't even want to get my frame then but saving $660 moved up that purchase. Go with the beef.

Originally posted by gipper
Nice Dean. What tube is that? 4x2x? 1/8?

2x4x.120
With everything tied into the rollbar and such it is plenty strong. This Jeep doesn't flex anything like the boxed stock one I had before. Really a Jeep frame is an easy project since it is just 2 streight rails. This frame get abused plenty and I would build it again the same if needed. Here is the finished product.

http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/myjeep3.jpg

Do you have any close ups of those critical joints there?

No I don't
sorry

PM me if you have some questions. I'll be happy to answer them.

Hell with it, I think I'll just build one like 66CJdean did. That will save me a lot of $$.

I run the Matkins stage III on my CJ6. It is BEEFY. I had a good experience with them. No problems with customer service or the frame. I am very happy with the product they make. That said, I am about a year into a build ( I work a lot of hours at work so the Jeep sees me at most once a week ) When I started, my brother asked me why I didn't just build my own frame. At the time I thought he was crazy. I had no skills in welding and no equipment to build it with. Now, between us, we either own or have access to anything we would need to do just about anything we want. He is a certified welder now, and I have learned a lot from him and those of you who were patient with me here. I think I wore a hole in the SEARCH button. I know it is easy to look back and see the things you may have changed, but if I had to do it over I would just make my own. It really is not that hard, and I did pay $$$$ for the frame.

One side note, if you do decide to order one anyway, order it with everything on it as you want it. I ordered mine bare bones. I have struggled with two different full width mounting setups, multiple body mounting setups, and many other things that slowed me down because I thought I would do it myself. They have all the numbers there, so let them do it if you are willing to have them do any of it. I found that I did not save myself any time or headaches the way I did it.
By the way, I still think my brother (BOOGERWELDZ) is crazy.

Originally posted by 51Willys
Hell with it, I think I'll just build one like 66CJdean did. That will save me a lot of $$.

You will build this type of frame for about the shipping cost of the others.
If you have questions PM me and I'll see if I can answer them.

After seeing so many nice rigs with AFW frames under them and knowing the people that built them (Chris Durham, Jason Paulie, etc.) I decided to call those guys and ask their opinions. They said they had no problems with the frames and that they had received such good customer service that they had returned to AFW to buy more frames for other rigs at a later date...knowing this was coming from the most-respected names in this business, I had an immediate trust in AFW products. I bought my first frame from AFW last week and it'll be here soon.

Originally posted by RedBullJeep
After seeing so many nice rigs with AFW frames under them and knowing the people that built them (Chris Durham, Jason Paulie, etc.) I decided to call those guys and ask their opinions. They said they had no problems with the frames and that they had received such good customer service that they had returned to AFW to buy more frames for other rigs at a later date...knowing this was coming from the most-respected names in this business, I had an immediate trust in AFW products. I bought my first frame from AFW last week and it'll be here soon.

Not to discount your recommendation, but I dont feel that a couple of the largest names in rock crawl comps getting good service means a whole lot. Anyone with a 4x4 buisness who gets a call from one of the bigshots is probably going to bend over backwards to make sure they are happy. This should not in itself be construed to mean that they treat everyone this way. Especially in light of the other replys to this thread. Maybe I'm just too damn cynical.

I own an AFW frame, beat the snot out of it and had no problems what so ever, including a 30' endo off of full throttle at EROCC that thrashed the cage a "bit", sprung the body a tad, frame is fine.

FWIW, AFW is plenty strong.

Originally posted by kwrangln


Not to discount your recommendation, but I dont feel that a couple of the largest names in rock crawl comps getting good service means a whole lot.
The only problem with this argument is that they were AFW customers BEFORE they got their big names...

I CALLED AND E-MAILED BOTH COMPANIES BEFORE I SPENT THE MONEY AFW DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO ME AND THERE E-MAIL WAS ONE SENTENCE. MATKINS SPENT ALOT OF TIME ON THE PHONE WITH ME AND I GOT A 7 PAGE E-MAIL FROM THEM.....SO MATKINS GOT MY 3K BUT THIS WAS ALL BEFORE TUBE CHASSIS BOOM... I STILL HAVE IT UNTOUCHED FROM WHEN IT WAS DELIVERED IF YOU WANT TO BUY IT FROM ME.. I HAD THE STAGE 3 WITH WRANGLER SPRINGS AND HITCHES FRONT AND REAR...E-MAIL ME SHELDON@TDMACH.COM

Man, those ALL CAPS MESSAGES make me dizzy :rasta:

Isn't that the way it goes though...buy something, then the trends change and it sits in the shop!

sorry work computer only uses caps.... no big deal the frame can go to the wife for a stock style crawler

I purchased a set of AFW frame rails last spring to put under my seven. I had them stretch the rails a few inches at the front and the back. I was able to get it back togther straight and true. But it takes a big jig or steel table to bolt it down. After all the welding of crossmembers I then took it to a frame shop and had it pulled completly perfect.

I then spent the rest of the year beating the piss out of it. I can't say enough good things about it. Its really nice when the suspension does the flexing not the frame.

Had nothing but good contact with Jarrod at AFW. I my opinion he's a great guy.

If you wanted all the dimensions they are available on the web for the stock frame. All you have to do is search. If you wanted Jarrod to tell you exactly how he builds them you should have bought one ready to bolt in. But hey thats just me I don't expect a company to give me their secrets. I do know it involves a big jig that probable takes more to build than the frame. My buddy has one he uses for stock car frames he builds. I cheated and used a huge steel working table with a 3/4" thick top.

The rails are cheap becuase they are along way from a finished product. But if you want to do something custom they work out really slick.

Postin pics for Grandpa Knorr:flipoff2:

http://www.rock-heads.com/willys/rails-1.jpg

:rolleyes:

:(

stuff

junk

and more junk

I gotta go with the build it yourself camp... I built my own frame and body as shown here just because someone told me I couldnt do it! The cost for materials to build what you see here was less than $750. go to www.rockmodified.com (http://) and click on their March 2003 issue and you can see a complete story on the build of this body and frame, including suspention and enginge mounting......

does anyone know the websites for AFW or Matkins?

does anyone know the websites for AFW or Matkins?

AFW is now http://www.throttledownkustoms.com/

I'm not sure what the deal is with Matkins. Last time I was in that part of the country I tried calling them up, but the number went to a full voice mail box. I tried driving by their location (found in the local phone book) and basically ended up on a residential street, but could not find the specific address.

http://www.throttledownkustoms.com/ :smokin:

Last I heard about 2 yrs ago Matkins went belly up....

concerning afw vs matkin frames, mechanically inclined just wont cut if you want to build your own frame. if you use it every day then there are many areas where you might run into problems. for example, body mounts, steering and suspension components missaligned. don't forget oem and aftermarket manufacturers build these frames on jigs that are flat and true so that everything fits and when you go down the road you track straight, don't wear those $1000.00 tires, your frame won't fall apart from poor or weak welds, etc. for every thing to fit and work properly you will need dimensions and angles which are not readilly available so you will be depending on this information from your old frame which is definitly twisted, bent and rusted out. because of all the factors against you during the rebuild most of you that will atempt it will probablly will never complete this endever so in the long run it will be more cost effactive to buy something new and proven. really think this project out before you attempt this long project.
Edit

concerning afw vs matkin frames, mechanically inclined just wont cut if you want to build your own frame. if you use it every day then there are many areas where you might run into problems. for example, body mounts, steering and suspension components missaligned. don't forget oem and aftermarket manufacturers build these frames on jigs that are flat and true so that everything fits and when you go down the road you track straight, don't wear those $1000.00 tires, your frame won't fall apart from poor or weak welds, etc. for every thing to fit and work properly you will need dimensions and angles which are not readilly available so you will be depending on this information from your old frame which is definitly twisted, bent and rusted out. because of all the factors against you during the rebuild most of you that will atempt it will probablly will never complete this endever so in the long run it will be more cost effactive to buy something new and proven. really think this project out before you attempt this long project.
Edit

You brought up a thread that was started in 2004 and last posted to over a year ago to say that? You make it sound as if building a frame is difficult? It's not that difficult to make sure something is built square. since your shop floor is most likely out [of square] all you have to do is put some nails in studs where you are building at (above the height of the frame by a foot or so) making sure to put them in a level plane, and so they intersect the area you are building your frame at. Run string across them, make sure it's level (if not reset a nail so it is level). Then you have a level and flat plane to build off of. As was said on the first page it will really only take about 3 hours to build the base frame and then a few more hours of work to build the body, and suspension mounts and stick them on. If you don't think your welding is up to snuff you can always pay a professional to come out and weld it up. And you'll still probably come out cheaper than a pro built one. The only reasons I can think off of the top of my head to go with a TDK frame is for the smooth look of the bent framerails, or you are too lazy to do the work.

concerning afw vs matkin frames, mechanically inclined just wont cut if you want to build your own frame. if you use it every day then there are many areas where you might run into problems. for example, body mounts, steering and suspension components missaligned. don't forget oem and aftermarket manufacturers build these frames on jigs that are flat and true so that everything fits and when you go down the road you track straight, don't wear those $1000.00 tires, your frame won't fall apart from poor or weak welds, etc. for every thing to fit and work properly you will need dimensions and angles which are not readilly available so you will be depending on this information from your old frame which is definitly twisted, bent and rusted out. because of all the factors against you during the rebuild most of you that will atempt it will probablly will never complete this endever so in the long run it will be more cost effactive to buy something new and proven. really think this project out before you attempt this long project.
Edit

You brought up a thread that was started in 2004 and last posted to over a year ago to say that? You make it sound as if building a frame is difficult? It's not that difficult to make sure something is built square. since your shop floor is most likely out [of square] all you have to do is put some nails in studs where you are building at (above the height of the frame by a foot or so) making sure to put them in a level plane, and so they intersect the area you are building your frame at. Run string across them, make sure it's level (if not reset a nail so it is level). Then you have a level and flat plane to build off of. As was said on the first page it will really only take about 3 hours to build the base frame and then a few more hours of work to build the body, and suspension mounts and stick them on. If you don't think your welding is up to snuff you can always pay a professional to come out and weld it up. And you'll still probably come out cheaper than a pro built one. The only reasons I can think off of the top of my head to go with a TDK frame is for the smooth look of the bent framerails, or you are too lazy to do the work.

Looks like BORE_US55 registered onto PBB specifically for the pupose of telling everyone that no one should build anything. :laughing:

Hopefully he has climbed back into his clown car and driven away...:lmao: