Searched but couldnt find what I was looking for. All I need is someone to give me a sanity check on my wiring. Already had a bunch of 10-2 Romex in the shed. Bought plug to match dryer and recpt to match welder. (Oh yea, its a MM175) Dryer plug is the kind with the "L" prong and 2 prongs in a V arrangment
.L
\ /
Welder side is the kind with 2 parallel verticals one larger than the other and a D prong
.D
l..|

The way it is wired is the D to the L, and a \ to a l, and / to a |.

Do I have that right? Oh and cord length is 20 foot. Since I blew the bank on the welder, Im going to have to wait a bit to pick up some good 6-8 ga stuff to make a longer cord.

Thanks

As long as your house wiring to the dryer receptacle is correct, the L should be ground/neutral (which is the D on the welder). The other 2 are hot and it really doesn't matter which one goes where. Code may say differently, but it'll still work and I doubt you'll burn your house down.

Disclaimer - I'm not a certified electrician, but I have wired a few things in my life and I know it'll work.

Thanks, Thats what I thought as well, just wanted a sanity check. Welp, Im off to go burn metal!

oh and this is for you :beer:

You have that new fire extinguisher right next to that new welder too? :D

As you put it, your "L" and "D" shaped prongs are both ground. The other two are each a leg of 110. Your wiring schematic will work fine. The 10 gauge wire on the otherhand is way too small for the task. It's rated at 30 amps, not 50 amps like most drier circuits. Get some 6 AWG for the cord before you melt the 10 AWG. All sorts of fun things can happen when you do that!;)

Speaking of cord, how long of one can you use safely?

Yeah, but what does the MM175 pull? Maybe 25A WFO? The cord that MM supplies definitely isn't bigger than 10ga... might be 12.

If he has 100' of this stuff spooled out to the garage, he might run into problems... but I'd bet his weld would suffer before he'd ever burn the place down.

It's not ideal, but it should work just fine.

You best check you handbook that came with the welder it should tell you what guage for how long of a run. It was in my Hobart 175 hand book anyway.

Why does everyone think all welders pull 50A? :confused:


The MM175 draws 19.5A at full rated output according to the manual. I ran one on a 20A breaker for over a year. It never tripped once. Your 10ga wire is more than fine.

Direct from the manual:

"Select extension cord of 14 AWG for up to 50 ft (15 m) or 12 AWG for 50 up to 200 ft (61 m)."

I'd suggest going up to the Depot and getting some 12ga flexible extension cord wire.

Well, after Kendo said my wiring was sane, I went out and ran a few beads. Everything seemed fine. And yes, I had my fire extinguisher handy, always do when playing with fire.

But now, in light of this mornings posts, im confused. I know I should step up to at least 8-3 (SO if I can find it). But why cant I use my dryer plug, as its the one I can get to, the oven is all nice and hidden away in a built in. I guess what has me confused is the fact the the MM175 has a rated input of 19.5A. With that in mind, why cant I just plug up to my 30A dryer circut?

Oh, and I know better than to cook, do the laundry and weld all at the same time, but thanks for that reminder. :)

I run a PowerMig 215 off my dryer recepticle (30 amp) with a 70 foot 6AWG SO extension cord. No problems.

My cord was about a buck a foot. And it is water/oil/abrasion resistant. I picked it up at an Electrical Supply place.

I thought about using romex but that stuf is a real PIA to use as a extension cord because it is so stiff. The stuff I got is way easier to work with. Rolls up nice. Drags around stuff nice and doesn't stand up and become a fuckin ankle grabber like the romex does.

I would say 10AWG would be fine but I did 6AWG just to be on the safe side.

You can. Those "50A" receptacles that 1972 is talking about? The last one I used was set up to run on a 30A, 40A, or 50A circuit. The little pamphlet inside had different instructions depending on what size wire was running to it.

Cool, thanks sclemons, Alaska ZJ. 1972CJ had me all twisted up in my head. But thanks for chiming in 1972CJ. Id rather have too much info than not enough. Guess Im off to find so SO cord, well at lunch anyway.

Originally posted by Shrock
Why does everyone think all welders pull 50A? :confused:


Because Miller puts a 50A style plug on them and there just to lazy to read the manual.

Originally posted by Hero
I know I should step up to at least 8-3

Did you read my post? I give up....

What you might do when you have the $$$ for the new cord is just pull the cord out of the welder and rewire it with the longer cord rather than make an extention cord. This will save you from buying an extra male and female plug and those things are expensive where the 8/3 SO cord isn't all that bad and can be bought by the ft. from Home Depot along with the plugs. On my miller 250 I pulled the 10ft cord out and rewired it with a 60ft 6/3 SO cord so I never need an extention anywhere in the shop for it and can get it outside quite along ways if needbe. The 6/3 SO cord was $1.68ft and the male connector was about $10 so your 8/3 should be even cheaper. The 50ft 2/3 SO cord for the tig welder was a little more!:D

Originally posted by Shrock


Did you read my post? I give up....

Actually, that is for the MM135(110V) not the MM175 (220). But you posting that kicked my memory and led me to the Input Amps.

Thanks for trying to help at any rate.

Originally posted by Hero


Actually, that is for the MM135(110V) not the MM175 (220). But you posting that kicked my memory and led me to the Input Amps.

Thanks for trying to help at any rate.

Uh, whatever. I have a MM175(220v) and it pulls 19.5A max according to the manual, just like he said.

Originally posted by xBabyJesus


Uh, whatever. I have a MM175(220v) and it pulls 19.5A max according to the manual, just like he said.

Right, mine says the same thing. I dont have the manual here at work, but I DL'd one from Miller. What Im looking at is in section 3.7 pp15, "Selecting a Location and Connecting Inpower for 115VAC Model" "...Select extension cord of 14 AWG for up to 50ft (15m) or 12 AWG for 50 up to 200ft(61m)"

Now, in section 3.8 pp16, "Selecting a location and Connecting input power for 230VAC Model" It says nothing about extension cord or any kind of wiring size.

For reference I am looking at PDF 01324c_mil.pdf which I just downloaded from millerwelds.com.

Just to clarify, Im not contesting the 19.5A input draw. But now that I think on it some more, if the draw is the same for both units at 19.5 then logic dictates that the same requirements would match for both. So I guess he (Shrock) was right. My bad.

I am doing same thing as you are.... using a 10-2 x 50' romex (direct burrial rated) with the dryer ends like you have and it works fine on my hobart 175, i dont run it on that all the time only 2-3 times a year when i need to weld at the end of the driveway... The manual says its fine. Just be carefull rolling it up and you will be fine...


btw: i used a small piece of 1/2 heater hose where the cable enters the ends so it fits the clamps better and doesnt get pinched or kinked, works great...

-mike

I run my mm175 off of about 50 feet of 12/3 exten I bought at home depot,works fine I thought the manuel said up to 66feet w/ 12/3.

It is 19.5A for the 220V and the 120V. You are getting more power from that 19A with a 220V welder bec ...

power = current x voltage

220V x 19.5 Amps = 4290 Watts

120V x 19.5 Amps = 2340 Watts


BTW, if you really want an 8ga extention cord, I bought one with molded ends off eBay for $100 with free shipping.

I priced the wire and plugs from Home Depot and the cost was about the same, no hassle of making it and the plugs are more durable.

25ft - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2592770007&category=34096

50 ft - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2591850098&category=34096

Jim

I don't think I would rewire the welder with a long cord unless you zig zag the cord instead of coiling it. I have heard that a long cord coiled will make a magnetic field in it that could hurt the mackine. I have a plug in the garage that work for the shop work then use the cord to get to the driveway.:D :D :D :D

I was not saying that the 175 pulled 50amp, but rather that the plug it came with was the 50 amp style. I have a MM175 myself, but at 5am when I was replying I did not want to run out and look at it. That said, I just went out and looked at mine. It is a 19.5 amp rated draw. This means the previous info would be correct and you could use your dryer outlet if you change the plug. In thinking back, one reason I left mine this way is because at the time I wired it in, I had a Lincoln arc at the house and I needed the ability to use it on the same outlet. It was a 50 amp rated unit. I just ran my own circuit off the box and wired in an external 50 amp outlet at my driveway. Now I just plug in my extension cord and weld wherever I want. This comes in handy as there are often more than one rig in the works in the driveway. Sorry if I led you astray.

One last note, the SO cord is labeled differently than the romex. You want a 12-3, as in 12 gauge- 3 wire as opposed to the 12-2 romex where the ground conductor is not insulated and is not counted.

Originally posted by 1972CJ5+1
O.K. now here's the deal. First off, your 10-2 is enough to run a 30 amp load without a problem if you run a 30 amp breaker. Your dryer is normally on a 30 amp breaker and 10-2 wire, hence the goofy plug. It is a 30 amp rated plug. This is done this way to keep you from plugging a 50 amp device in and causing problems. Even with the derated wiring and receptacle, the chance that your 175 ( i believe rated at 35 amps) would cause problems is minimal. It would only draw that at a complete short at the secondary of the weld transformer and is not a likely case. The welder comes with a 50 amp plug because it is intended to be plugged into a 50 amp receptacle. The oven in your house is a 50 amp service and has the correct 8-2 and 50 amp receptacle you are refering to. Take a quick look and you will quickly see that your welder requires no changes to plug into the oven/range receptacle. I'm sure you have no desire to weld in the kitchen, so here's the rest. Wire is rate at a given temp for a given distance. The temp depends on the type of wire you buy, but industry standard is 1000ft on the wire's current rating. So go down to your local hardware store, buy about 50 feet of 8-2 and the correct receptacles ( the original plug on your welder was correct) and happy welding. As long as you do not exceed 1000 ft on your extension cord, there is no rated current loss in the wire.


A couple things to note, see if you can get an S O type cord. It is similar to an extension cord and is more flexible and has a high strand count instead of the single stranded romex. If you find some you will understand what I mean. It is inteded as an exterior wire unlike the interior romex. The other thing is that a spool of romex running 50 amps creates a decent size magnetic field, so make sure you don't have anything near your spool like a tv, computer, etc, or just straighten it out when you use it. This magnetic field can cause some minor current loss, but I'm sure you will not ever be able to see it.

Oh, and make sure you use the correct circuit breaker and wire it to your box correctly. You likely only have a 100 to 150 amp service drop from the road to your house, so I would recommend that if your doing luandry and making dinner while working on your rig, stop one or the other before firing up the welder. Add up the amps and you will quickly see it is easy to outdo you drop from the road.

Hope this is of some help to ya

a classic example of the dont knows telling the dont knows what they dont know.

your an idiot. for starters there is no such thing as current loss, second, this 1000 foot thing you dreamed up or was told by some old timer is bs.

your cord will be fine dude. plus, welders are classified as intermittent duty, so the standard rules don't apply.

a complete short at the secondary? that is called boom. you short the secondary, it is essentially no different than shorting the primary. it will be a fault current, not 35 amps, but way more.

don't worry about the drop from the road, it will be fine. worst case you trip your main. no biggy.

You will want 8/3 not 8/2.

ya make sure you have that chassis ground, you holding the gun and possible touching the metel is bad enough... :flipoff2:

O.K. jackass. Current loss is a function of the resistance of the conductive path it takes, I.E the wire. Yes, there is no rated current loss across the wire if used in segments of less than 1000 feet. That is a national standard, not a figment of my immagination. It is written on the side of the wire if you purchase it as individual conductors. Put a VOM, or better yet a Megger on your wire, and juice it up to 1000V and then run out about 1 or 2 thousand feet and you will see.
A short across the secondary is not at all like a short across the primary. It is a proportional function of the difference in the number of windings. For example you have 230VAC in at the primary and, as I recall, 28VDC out at the transformer secondary. There is also a loss for efficience of the transformer itself, although who really cares because we are concerned with the rated output of the welder not the loss. This has nothing to do with the duty rating of the welder. And if it were on the correct CB as I stated, it could not exceed 30 amps at all. What is this "fault current" you came up with anyway?
As for the drop from the road, add it up. If you have your stove on high and are pulling anywhere near the rated 50 amps, plus the dryer at rated 30 amp, if you started welding at 20 amps you would be close to the line drop rating of your house. Yes, it should be fused or protected by a resetable CB, but have you ever tried to replace one? I had to because a similar jackass who lived in my house prior to me did just what had been suggested and ran the dryer, the welder and the range at the same time not knowing what he was doing. This time it was a 50 amp arc and he far exceeded the rating of the line drop. I had to replace the incoming CB and the secondary box CB along with the welder receptacle CB and wiring. Each CB was over $100 due to new code requirements for GFI, there was the cost of inspection, the pain in my ass to do it, and one last thing. You cannot turn your power off from the road. It has to be done at the leisurely schedule of the local utility. Then, before you can reconnect, it must be inspected, and a new grounding rod must be installed, and then you wait for the same jackass to come out and turn it back on again. Of course that is unless you are comfortable with wiring 230VAC live with the potential of 100 to 150 amps using you as a fuse and the possibility of the local authority slapping your cheap ass with a big fine.
If you consult with page 3 and 4 of your user manual you will discover the reasons previously stated concerning magnetic fields generated by the wiring as well as the welding, and a specific reference to computer controlled equipment.
The original question was concerning hooking up the welder to a dryer outlet, which although seems commonplace here, is neither safe nor correct to do. I was merely trying to show the guy asking the question that the plug on his mm175 was the same as an existing socket in his house and he need not change it. If he did desire to change it, the correct way of doing so was as stated.
The manual recommends a conductor of no less than number14 and a ground of no less than 12. If you look at your wire, you will notice that the SO cord that is recommended has symetrical load characteristics. They are all the same size. Thus you should use the 12-3 SO as previously stated, or as CJdean says, the 8-3 if you want to be able to use other equipment with a greater load capacity as I did.

Here's the link to the Owner's Manual
http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1324c_mil.pdf

Here's the link to the NFPA and their NEC resource page
http://www.nfpa.org/nec//

By the way, I am an industrial electrician by trade. One trip to your local book store and a few seconds of your "oh so valuable time" you can take a look at the most recent version of the National Electric Code. Here you will find reference to the afore mentioned information. You my want to consult with the source before you open you mouth.

Originally posted by 1972CJ5+1
The original question was concerning hooking up the welder to a dryer outlet, which although seems commonplace here, is neither safe nor correct to do.

Care to explain this statement?

aw for chriss sakes people....

I had this same delema. I only had 1 110v circuit, ran with 14-2 to my garage, that I turned into a shop. The resistance was hell, so do your self a favor, and pull a new circuit, or re-route existing circuit to the garage. I am assuming that this is an attached, not detached like mine.

Then you can put an outlet with the correct hard wiring wherever that fawk you want.

I ran 4-3 alumiflex to the shop, dropped in 70amp, and put the outlets where I wanted. no worries about fractional loss/drop. took 5 hours, with 200 in materials, and that was for overhead drop and subpanel. A decent 80' extension cord will cost 100-110 in parts at home depot. Simple math equation to me!

you guys can go back to calling each other names now...
j

Good Idea. But some of us are not home owners. I for one have to move every 3-4 years so I like being able to take my 100 dollar extension cord with me to my new home.

But your right about it is easy to wire up the shop and just as economical. Just not doable for some of us.



Originally posted by redrangie
aw for chriss sakes people....

I had this same delema. I only had 1 110v circuit, ran with 14-2 to my garage, that I turned into a shop. The resistance was hell, so do your self a favor, and pull a new circuit, or re-route existing circuit to the garage. I am assuming that this is an attached, not detached like mine.

Then you can put an outlet with the correct hard wiring wherever that fawk you want.

I ran 4-3 alumiflex to the shop, dropped in 70amp, and put the outlets where I wanted. no worries about fractional loss/drop. took 5 hours, with 200 in materials, and that was for overhead drop and subpanel. A decent 80' extension cord will cost 100-110 in parts at home depot. Simple math equation to me!

you guys can go back to calling each other names now...
j

Originally posted by AlumCJ


a classic example of the dont knows telling the dont knows what they dont know:


you short the secondary, it is essentially no different than shorting the primary. ...

i fixed it for you, mr. dont know:D

although i totally agree with that boner 1972 cj6,

ive been running the 50a rated 220v craftsman buzzbox off 200 feet of coiled up 14 gage for a couple years. if you coil up the wire real tight and run a good 140 or so amps on a big rod itll pull on the metal plate in my skull off the bone a couple of millimeters... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: