Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week


Sometimes you just need to make your rig look nice.

Maybe you need it to pass a state inspection and the holes in the floors are too small to make welding in new panels worth the time and expense.

Maybe you need to fix your busted hardtop so you don't freeze your azz off.

Maybe you need a new hood for your competition rig. ;)

Maybe you just want some blingin' console for your quad 10" subs.... ok, maybe not.



So, do you bust out the sheets of glass and resin, or do you get out the choppergun and go to town? And what do you do?

dammit.


Sorry to those who posted in the previous thread. I managed to delete it. :mad:

Good TOTW as far as I am concerned.

My plan calls for a shortened CJ-7 HT so I can have a hard top for the COLD New England winters. My tub will be slightly longer than a CJ-10 tub.

I picked up a beat-up 7 top for testing purposes and plan on cutting out a section in the middle of the side windows and grafting it back together again.

I have never fawked with fiberglass too much other than to fix my old CJs floor.

The plan is to used balsa wood on the inside where it cannot be seen as well, covering with a decent amout of 'glass and seal the seam on the top with maybe one layer, 2 if I feel the need.

EDIT: I will also be sealing up the tailgate in a similar fasion.

Figured I'd try cutting with a dremel and an abrasive disc.

By the way epoxy gives important alergies so wear gloves and mask at all times.
Lets see what the guys want to do.... and we will find a way. Fiberglass is messy BUT very easy to work.
Points to start:
www.wicksaircraft.com
www.aircraftspruce.com
It´s all there..........

Ed

Fiberglass resin and cloth is easy and cheap for me to find here. Marinas always have plenty as well as the hardware store. Ive been slowly fixing the PO half assed attempt to glass the rearfloor. There are allot of places he didnt put in any support or he didnt get the cloth saturated or he didnt get it pressed down good.

I have found that the fiberglass matting will be stiffer where it is needed for support. While using the fiberglass cloth will keep a little flex to it.

Originally posted by preach

I picked up a beat-up 7 top for testing purposes and plan on cutting out a section in the middle of the side windows and grafting it back together again.


Hey, save me those chopped out sections... I'm thinking of grafting two 7 tops together to make a full HT for my 8

Originally posted by Mo


Hey, save me those chopped out sections... I'm thinking of grafting two 7 tops together to make a full HT for my 8

I will, should be mid window if you want to plan.

I plan on having it come out neat so it is better to graft the two bits I need together easier.

You may end up with all of it if it works out for me and I go for a better condition top. Not that this one is that bad.

I had a friend who worked at a Corvette shop in high school. Wore shorts during the summer sanding/grinding on 'em. He said it's stupid, but he would wear panty hose on his legs and arms when working, peeling them off helped pull the fibers out of his skin, and the hose helped prevent much of the fibers from getting to his skin.

Rather than wood, I would look into using foam board sadwiched inside layers of fiberglass. This is how they build airplanes

(I've yet to confirm this) I think you can use the dense (light blue) foam insulation which is styrene, with urethane or vinyl resin.

Urethane foam board (what is recomemned) is expensive, but the blue insulation foam at the home despot is dirt cheap.

Regular cheap resin will melt styrene.
Good luck, hope this helps.
Thom

I ran across this guys site while researching rc planes but this guy has some good info on fiber glass fabricating.
Im sure it would cross over.Fiberglass Fabricating (http://home.mchsi.com/~jahuntley/help/help.html#Tip%202)

Low Density Polyethelene and High Density PE make great form liners. The resin will not stick to this. Where can you find LDPE and HDPE you ask? plastic trash bags and grocery bags are polyethelene. They make excellent form liners when you tape them down well and don't need a perfect smooth surface. If wrinkles will kink your style then look for a different form liner but if you're looking to rough something out give it a try.

IT will make a hood as hard (structurally)as steel and lighter.
ed

To the best of my knowledge when making fiberglass parts the real strength comes from ridges in the fiberglass which are created by adding the filler. Therefore if you want to make a structural fiberglass part (or a non-flexible one at any rate) you add peices of filler to make ridges in the fiberglass.
My point is that it doesnt really matter what you use for filler just keep it to strips instead of sheets. On that note one good thing to use is Balsa wood because it is very light and won't melt while the resin is setting up.
Another thing is that you should always have something to distribute a load in fiberglass, for instance if you are going to bolt through fiberglass either put a peice of metal/wood into the fiberglass at that point and drill/bolt through it or use a piece of metal/wood on the back side as an extra extra large size washer.

Jon Estey

Ok, I have a question. when using fiber over foam, and building a large object with one or more "right" (give or take a few degrees) angles, is it better to build it as one peice, or several smallerpeices, then join them together?

NQS

Originally posted by Geah
I ran across this guys site while researching rc planes but this guy has some good info on fiber glass fabricating.
Im sure it would cross over.Fiberglass Fabricating (http://home.mchsi.com/~jahuntley/help/help.html#Tip%202)

Tin foil works good too, its easy to conform to rounded surfaces.

For some applications, I add bondo into the Fiberglass resin, and use both the resin and bondo activators, this soupy thicker resin will dry alot faster and the bondo makes it easier to sand and hide the fibers in the cloth or mat.


Another good Idea when build with fiberglass is to Stretch a cloth (cotten works good) over the area, then put some of the soupy bondo-resin mix on it. This will give you a stiff surface the correct shape to start laying your fiber layers on.

Ill try to get some pics up of my projects later on.

When working with wood, (like for a console, or a form, or brace)you can first paint it with the following and let it kick before you start matting...this helps to get a good bond with it (or to make it waterproof). Thin out the resin by diluting it in half with thinner, then add twice the hardener you would normally use. This ratio works for moderately warm temps(70-80*F). It thins the resin so that it will penetrate the wood, yet will still "kick" due to the extra hardener.
This is not an exact recipe and results will vary according to ambient temperature. Hotter climates may have to reduce the amount of hardener in order to increase working time before it kicks, colder climates may need to increase it some. (This "temp adjustments" principle applies normal matting procedures also)

Don't do this indoors, as there is a risk of fire if you add too much hardener. :eek:

Originally posted by donjr5
I had a friend who worked at a Corvette shop in high school. Wore shorts during the summer sanding/grinding on 'em. He said it's stupid, but he would wear panty hose on his legs and arms when working, peeling them off helped pull the fibers out of his skin, and the hose helped prevent much of the fibers from getting to his skin.

I have done this too, w/o the pantyhose. Your body gets used to it when you do it everyday. I was workin on sailboats, not vettes. The average dude is NOT GONNA LIKE THE RESULTS. My ritual to remove it was to blow off as much as I could with the airhose. Shower first with very cool wtaer to rinse off excess fibers nd close the pores, thne crank the hot water to open and flush your pores and finish with cool water again. And make damn sure you NEVER EVER EVER wash your fiberglassing clothes with your regular stuff. Especially underwear.:crybaby2:

How does fiberglass hold up to rocks? For my XJ several companies offer glass flare made for desert racing that I think would be neat to run but with rocks? dunno?

My .02:

Steel and fiberglass expand at different rates. If you bond glass to steel, eventually, it WILL crack off.

And a link:

http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.html

what do you guys use to build molds?...for the first time four months ago i tried working with resin as an experiment and i made a mold of the side of my head to my shoulders using metal screen/mesh...then i layed fiberglass and brushed the resin...it was messy!...any information out there on mold making?

Here is a good link to Mold making.

http://www.fibreglast.com/content.php?URLID=170&source=goog&keyword=mold+making

We did a mold for a nose cone at school. Started out with Strofoam pieces that where attached together with pieces of wood. Then we roughed out the nose cone shape in the styro foam with a electric knife. After that we covered the entire mold in Bondo and sanded it down to the right shape. This took alot of time to get the profile dead on without dips or bumps. After getting the final shape we coated the entire things with somekind of wax. Don't remember exactly what kind it was. Coated this this about 3-5 times letting each coat sort of soak in. The we laid the glass. The wax stuff kept the glass from sticking to the mold. Turned out pretty sweet when we got it done though.

:cool:

As soon as I can find either a Full Length CJ-8 HT or two YJ HTs I will start a project to make a HT for my Bobbed 8.

My plan is to cut to length (shorter or longer), taper both sides of the seam back approximately 6 to 8 inches. Put a 1/8" piece of hard fiberglass board on the bottom of the seam and start layering glass mat and cloth until I reach the top of the seam area.
Sand until smooth and fill in with a good grade of bondo.
I plan on leaving the 1/8" board on the bottom tapered on the edges; it will be covered with the headliner so hopefully won't show.

Any comments or suggestions ?

Anything to watch out for ?

Any suggestions on the manufacturer of the resin, cloth or bondo ?

Thanks,
Later,

that wax stuff is mold release and u prob. didnt use styrofoam it more than likely was that stuff they use in floral arrange ments because u cant shape styrofoam verry well. Gel coat works even better than mold release but u gotta spray it on but its worth the hastle

Also that floral foam is great to use for guage pods,custom dashes etc. because its easy to work with and after u mold the fiberglass all u gotta do is put some acetone on it and ill just melt away to noting and just wipe it off done....

also MDF rings are good for guage pods u can make some verry nice pods if youre good

i've tried using the green foam for floral arrangements...they work nicely if you need a piece that has compound curves...

Anyone ever used carbon fiber or aramid? A friend and I were tossing around the idea of making some stuff like consoles out of carbon fiber. Seems like it would be about the same as glass without the skin irritations.

I've never tried this myself but some guys I know who have done a fair bit of fiberglass work use packing tape when they want to copy something like a fender. They just cover it with tape and then lay the cloth over top. They swear that the fiberglass doesn't stick to the tape. And yeah, the resulting part will be different sized from the original but in their application, it wasn't a concern.

I'll be giving that technique a try when I build a cover for the large, irregularly shaped shifter hole in my transmission tunnel. I'll tape together the basic shape from cardboard, then cover it with packing tape, and then lay down the matting. When it's complete, I will hopefully have a flat, rectangular shape to which I can attach the twin stick boot.

...lars

Originally posted by jeepguy553
Anyone ever used carbon fiber or aramid? A friend and I were tossing around the idea of making some stuff like consoles out of carbon fiber. Seems like it would be about the same as glass without the skin irritations.

you could use carbon fiber but it's much more intesive then fiberglass. Same care goes into making the molds but when you cure the epoxy and carbon mat is has to be in a vacuum sealed enviroment, which may be tough to do.

That's good info that I will pass on to my friend that I was looking into this with. He came up with the idea to make a few consoles and such to try it out. I guess we'll be looking into something else as an option...possibly fiberglass along the lines of this thread.

summertime is coming and the hardtop is coming off this weekend. i wanted to make some fiberglass inserts that i could attach to the stock main hoop of my yj and then attach to the windshield and would seal up around a set of harddoors and a safari top. sort of like the piece that tj's have for softtops. any suggestions on setting up the mold and what not would be appreciated. i'm figuring just coating the hardtop with something, perhaps trash bags, and then laying glass on it. after that i can make my piece and trim it to fit as well as add mounting locations. never worked with fiberglass though so i'm a little weary.

summertime is coming and the hardtop is coming off this weekend. i wanted to make some fiberglass inserts that i could attach to the stock main hoop of my yj and then attach to the windshield and would seal up around a set of harddoors and a safari top. sort of like the piece that tj's have for softtops. any suggestions on setting up the mold and what not would be appreciated. i'm figuring just coating the hardtop with something, perhaps trash bags, and then laying glass on it. after that i can make my piece and trim it to fit as well as add mounting locations. never worked with fiberglass though so i'm a little weary. i'm readin gthe link to mold making that was posted earlier, but first hand experience would be nice too

hey !!!

can we back this up to the "ive never done this level"

The conversations are great but i dont have a clue what the hell you all are talking about. I read the mold making links but im lacking the fundamentals to even visualize a lot of it...

Some pictures of even simple stuff would be cool for the glass newbies like myself...

I'd love to start on a simple project somthing like a replacment for my tunnel cover, a simple 1'x2' curved piece, with a hole in it...

Thanks,
-mike

Nobody has mentioned adhesives. I have some fiberglass fenders that I'm going to put some tj flares on including moving the inner wheel well. I did some asking around and found that thier are some adhesives on the market (ex. 3m, sem) that will make a pretty strong bond and do the job. I guess its what the bodywork guys use.

Don't need a vacuum to do carbon fiber, but for optimum strength, it does need to be cured under pressure.. That's why vacuum devices are sometimes used, as well as multi piece molds that are clamped together, and internal air bladders for closed forms. Fiber/resin ratio is critical, too, which is why a lot of high tech CF construction is done w/ pre-preg mat (CF mats that are pre-impregnated w/ the correct amount of resin). The pre-preg is heat activated/pressure cured, and storage/handling are critical. If not kept at the right temperature, and laid up and cured properly, it will be prone to failure.
Bottom line, you can't just lay up CF w/ some resin 'n' let it cure, like you can w/ glass.

:cool:

I got one of the two YJ tops I will need to make a full length hard top for my bobbed CJ-8.

I got this for short cash, thanks to "Theking"; this guy is interested in Jeeping and helping where necessary, Thanks Jeff.

All I need now is one more YJ top that is either damaged in the front or rear half.

Anyone got anything for sale...

Hopefully going to start cutting the one I have on the weekend coming up.

Will post pics when and if the project gets started.

Any on have ideas on cutting the tops ?

Later,

Another pretty good site about composite bodies.
http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.html

Originally posted by Geah
Another pretty good site about composite bodies.
http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.html

Didn't you notice I posted this link on the first page of the thread????

:rolleyes:

There seems to be a huge void in the tech in this thread. I'm by now means an expert ,but I have been using fiberglass for ~25 years in repairing my family's 6 boats.

There is no mention of the different types of resin and the 100s of different kinds of mat.

The three types of resin

Polyester: Very Cheap(20.00/gallon)
Vinyl Ester: Moderate (50.00/gallon)
1:1 Epoxy: Moderate (50.00/gallon)
3:1 and 4:1 Epoxy Expensive (80.00 to 100.00 gallon)

Nice mentioning the different resins - I used to make surfboards, did it for 7 years. Polyester resin will eat epoxy foam - they cannot be mixed. Epoxy resin is much harder than polyester resin - but more brittle/less flex. To lay fiberglass, you cannot have 90* sharp bends, it will either break the glass, or it will pull air. To fill sharp edges, roving(what is used in chop guns) would be a great choice to ease the corner. We used roving to go around the base of the fins so we could lay the glass up the fin. Fully saturate the roving with resin, squeeze it out in between your hand while pulling it through, and lay it in position.

If I can be of help to anyone - resin mixtures, etc...let me know. Also, if you want thicker resin as one person posted, "micro ballons" are just the trick - a really fine powder that thickens resin, and add strength to the resin itself.

If you plan on sanding the resin, you either need to buy sanding resing (resin with pre-mixed surfacing agent) to put over your laminating resin, otherwise sand paper gets all gooped up quick. You can buy surfacing agent separately from laminating resin and mix yourself, but tough to use above 80*F.

Old scout, Budd
Finally someone with information :)
Since this topic has been up, I've been thinking about making a new top for the jeepster, something that doesn't weigh a ton (you know what I mean Budd) I've done some glass work on boats, but it was all over wood.


So, Urithane foam is friggin expensive (so I probably wont use it). There is than blue foam board insulation stuff @ home despot. I think it's still styrofoam (polystyrene) like the white stuff.

Is there a resin that wont melt styrofoam like the standard styrene resin?
Thom

By saying "styrene " resin - you mean polyester resin. Styrene is a chemical component and is what you smell. Most polyester resins also contain cobalt to help the resin set. Poly resin sets in two stages - first setting happens when the MEKP (catalyst) - Methyl Ethyl Keton Peroxide - makes the resin no longer workable. Depending on your mixture, temp, humidity it varies and takes practice to know how much work time you have. The second setting is the final hardness that can take days to occur.

By no means ever get MEKP in your eyes - it is an organic peroxide that will cause blindness if not flushed out immediatley under running water. Also the best way to get resin off your skin is unfortunately virgin acetone(bad for your blood cell count). I don't have experience with the epoxies - it is another world.

unbelievable!Thanks for the reading(my head hurts now!lol!)Now Ive got the basics of the materials-what about withstanding heat?Id like to do a removable section of my trans tunnel that gets pretty warm.any suggestions or warnings before I start.I dont want to spend all the time building and forming it and have it sag or warp from the heat.T

Any ideas on molding two YJ Hard Tops together to make a top that is 15" longer than a stock YJ.

Later,

By saying "styrene " resin - you mean polyester resin. Styrene is a chemical component and is what you smell. Most polyester resins also contain cobalt to help the resin set. Poly resin sets in two stages - first setting happens when the MEKP (catalyst) - Methyl Ethyl Keton Peroxide - makes the resin no longer workable. Depending on your mixture, temp, humidity it varies and takes practice to know how much work time you have. The second setting is the final hardness that can take days to occur.

By no means ever get MEKP in your eyes - it is an organic peroxide that will cause blindness if not flushed out immediatley under running water. Also the best way to get resin off your skin is unfortunately virgin acetone(bad for your blood cell count). I don't have experience with the epoxies - it is another world.


Just noticed this topic of the week.....SWEEEEEEETTTT.....

The last page of this thread is where all the tech is. BUDD...You are so right about the Poly resins. You have to work hard for a good mix of agents to achieve good results. Lots of scrap for a garage builder...Poly's are cheap, but when you are tossing test after test into the trash $$$...

Epoxies are my world...much more forgiving with regards to operator error.

Poly's will kill you if you breathe them.

Epoxies smell like stale cat piss.

Always wear a resperator even if you are in your garage...

this is how you start a mold...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=117863&stc=1

Another good link I have found:

http://www.fibreglast.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=9eb9a712a476ede47e072c46ea133c56

hey i have some pics of some speaker pods that i put in my car if some one could post them for me. It covers the whole process. If any one is interested in trying fiberglassing, do it, this was my first project and it was so damn easy. All of the stuff was bought at the local wall-mart. for under 30 bucks. :D

I just wanted to put my vote in for epoxy resins. I repair composite structures on Army helicopters and epoxy is all we use. There's no way I could go back to using polyester resins, although they're just fine for most non-structural uses.

On aramid (kevlar) fibers, these aren't very good for most uses. They save a little bit of weight and can be stronger, but they're not fun to work with. The aramid doesn't absorb the resin, so sanding causes everything to fuzz up. Aramid will also wear out your scissors in a hurry. Once a crack forms in an aramid part, it will wick in any moisture and cause the part to deteriorate over time.

The links to the fibreglast.com site have some good info and they also sell good products, we use quite a few of them.

If you want a good strong product, bonding under pressure is the way to go. I use vacuum for most of my repairs, but you can get some damn good results just using weights to apply pressure. The key is good preparation, I usually mock up whatever I'm going to do before I add resin to make sure everything looks right.

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents into the pile..

If a structure is built in epoxy, then all modifications and repairs need to be done in Epoxy.

If a part was built in polyester, then you tend to have a choice. You should try and use more polyester, but I have found that an epoxy will usually work also.

Telling what the part was originally made in is tough. Most commercial items are epoxy, but larger parts are often polyester. About the only way I know of to tell is by smell (usually catch it during sanding process). Like mentioned above epoxy smells like cat piss, and polyester smells very chemically (like bondo).

For reapirs, you will want to sand the area you will be patching. This will remove the gel coat, waxes etc so that you can get a good bond.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't bondo basically a fancy mix of polyester resin and micro bollons? i know a lot of people use it on epoxy layups though...

If you are doing a large lay up like a fender or hood, and you finally decide on a basic resin type, pay close attention to the planned use. their are often times several different mixes available from a given supplier. Some are laminating, some finish, etc. I have used mostly polyester resisn in the past and always avoided resins with waxes added. I had one can of a "laminating" resin that had a wax in it.. What a train wreck that stuff was to work with.

Epoxy resins are nice to work with, but the toxic alergy that can build up is a little scarry. The expense is another issue. Epoxy's other strong point is that it does not melt most foams. (Can't think of any it does melt) But polyester can be used on several types of foam also. (Just test first.)

My next project has me looking at vinyester resins. We shall see how I like them.

Yes, the pink and blue foams at Home Depot can be used with your projects. Just test to cornfirm your resin will not melt it. those foams are good and cheap and easy to work with. If you have them available, be glad, down in the warmer climates they are not easily available. (My Home Depots do not sell it! So I have to order up foam and have it shipped..)

Fiberglass- again you have a lot of choices.. For light duty stuff, the normal bi-directional weaves available at most places will be fine. When getting into larger projects you might find that you want several different weights, weaves and maybe even types. You will know when you get there..

Do a dry test fit your glass to make sure it will fit your repair and make any complex curves etc. You can cut and trim until you are happy. Once you mix up the resin, you are on the clock, and don't want to be doing a bunch of trimming, etc. Also cutting wet fiberglass sucks..!

there are many little tricks, and things to learn. For the most part, try out a little test and see how things go.

Tip 1 - To cut a nice straight line in the glass, lay the glass out on a clean flat work area and pull one strand out of the weave were you want to cut it. now simply use your scissors and cut along where you pulled the strand.

Tip 2 - Have a spot that has some crazy angles to it, and it refuses to lay nice. Some folks will use a little 3M Super 77 spray adhisive on the dry fiberglass. Just a light misting. Then stick it in place. It is now ready to wet out with resin. One nice thing is it keeps some of the loose hairs of the weave from pulling out.

As far as vacum modling goes.. I consider that advanced, and not really needed unless you are going for great strength, and cleaner finish. This topic is beyond this thread.. as well as oven curing, etc.

Heat - This is a great weakness of fiberglass. There are ways to reduce this, but in general it should be fine for the applications being used on our vehicles. (Non-structural)

Carbon fiber and Kevlars do not really have a use for our applications either. Hell, if you ask me a carbon fiber hood is a waste of material. They just look neat. Kevlar is a pain in the ass to work with, and repairs on it are a real pain! Carbon fiber has some wonderful health issues to deal with. Mmm carbon strands in the blood system.. good stuff. I think carbon is an amazing product, but has little real application for our recreational 4x4s.

I think it would be interesting to make a buggy out of composites, but would have a real hard time justifying it. Maybe a future vehicle like Tiny could be based in composites, but I doubt anyone will go to the expense and trouble... Let alone the comp rules... Sorry just babbling..

-Wayne

Two respnses to that long verbage -

1.) Hard angles to get around? Crumple the glass mat into a ball and squeeze a few times so it is not so stiff - yes it does lack a touch in strength that way - but not much.

2.) Polyester resin will melt epoxy foam, but epoxy resin will not melt blown polyester foam.

Bondo is a poly based formula - but never used it in the surfboard world - so can't comment if compatible for bonding.

If you bought laminating resin and it contained "wax" as you put it - go get your money back. The wax in Poly resins is parafin - and is not in laminating resin. Laminating resin should not require sanding to bond to from another poly based - but sanding/finishing requires sanding first to remove the parafin.

Why use sanding resin then? Simple - it will not clog your sand paper as quick and is easier to sand with less heat build up. Never use laminating resin for finsh work - try it and you'll understand.

Hey Budd, thanks for the responses.

Personally I hate mat glass, and have never used it in my layups. I have seen others use it or a chop gun and hate both. A hard corner is just that, and I usually fill it with a little flox before layup begins.

What is epoxy foam? Are you trying to say "epoxy safe" foam? Polyester resin will melt about 75% of the foams out there. Pretty much all of the easy to find cheap foams. If super glue, gas or acetone will melt the foam, then so will polyester resin.

Yeah, that parafin wax was the stuff. They messed up their damn labels.. What a mess! I do pretty much 100% mold work, thus the laminating resins.

Can't say I have ever used finishing resin.. Can you expand on it's uses? I have used lamintaing even on stuff I would need to sand (no molds) and I did not have any issues that I recall, but maybe I was making life harder then it needed to be?

-Wayne

Sanding resin and most finising resins contain parafin so it is workable. What happens is that as the resin sets the parafin rises to make it very sandable. Finishing resin can top the sanding resin once the sanding resin is sanded down a little and can be buffed to get the gloss coat. Normal sanding resin is not as "buffable" but can be made to look pretty good. I'll walk you through the glass job of a surfboard so you understand.

1. Laminating resin is used to saturate the fiberglass - for the short surfboards we start with on layer of 4oz weave to cover the bottom and wrap around the rails a little to the top. All extra resin is "pulled" out of the glass by means of special squeegies. You leave just enough in that as the styrene airs out the glass stays saturated but is not puddled - this yields optimum strength/weight ratio.

2. Once the bottom is dried we flip the board over, prep the overlap of the glass on the rails to make a smooth bonding surface. Once again laminating resin is used with this time 2 layers of 4oz cloth. Same saturation process/excess removal, etc.

3. "Hot Coat" - this is sanding resin - either premixed, or by adding "surfacing agent" to laminating resin, thus making sanding resin. This process should be in a still aired area - and not above 80*F is you mixed your own - otherwise the wax will not rise. The "hot coat" is brushed on gently to the top of the board evenly and let to sit and harden. Do not let it harden completely but enough to be handled. We then flip the board over, and sure form the dripping off the bottom of the rails. Now remember sanding resin will not bond to non sanded sanding resin because the was is at the surface. We tape off the rails of the board around the areas that still have sanding resin on. Then proceed to "Hot Coat" the bottom - pull the tape off before the resin is hard - otherwise you won't get all the tape off.

4. Let board dry over night - but not too long as it ill get tougher to sand. If we are going to add finishing resin we only sand it down with 120 grit - if we are going to leave a sanded finsh we take it down to 32o grit + in stages starting with 100 grit.

5. Finishing resin is added to the board much like the "Hot Coat". But then it is wet sanded to remove any tape lines - then polished/buffed to a glass like shine.

Hope this helps - same process is used in other applications - use your imagination. This is for polyester resin.

Just ran across this site I didnt see it mentioned in this thread yet.
http://web.njit.edu/~cas1383/proj/main/

and where I ran across it at
http://www.workshopforum.com/index.php?showforum=26

That first one site is pretty decent, gives some good ideas. A couple of things I found over the summer working on my project is the mat. I went to the parts store and got some heavier mat, that seemed to work better. In holes I had I used a fiberglass patch panel then used mat over that. I had some front fiberglass fenders that I guy gave me, I cut the inner fender to move it much like you do with steel fenders for tj flares. I used some sem adhesive and fiberglass and it came out pretty strong. Strong enough that I can sit on the fender when I'm wrenching on it.

Anyone have any good info on fixing Hard Tops? I'm looking for more repair info than fabbing from scratch. The previous owner backed into something and my corner is carcked around the vent plate.

These guys have some great epoxies and supplies
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&categoryId=4
I worked with the west system epoxies when I worked on boats, and that stuff is very user freindly, the directions are easy and it will help a beginner achieve some good results. For those who have worked with glass before and haven't used West System I would reccomend it.