To narrow a rear Dana44 or a Dana60 housing could I press the tubes out from the center section, chop the tubes, and press them back in again? It seems to me that If I didn't mess with the outters on the axle then I wouldn't mess up the alignment of the axle, true?

I have the means to do the above work but I don't have the means to make an alignment jig for narrowing the axle the traditional way.




thanks,

if you have the means to do the tube removel and install without Fawking it up then you better be able to make a jig for makeing sure everything is straight :flipoff2:

Maybe you should take a look at BC 4X4...Mike Knorr's way uses a sleeve on the inside of the axle tube for alignment and leaves the tubes in the center section.

and tell me how does this SLEEVE keep it straight. I saw that right up and got a good laugh out of it. If i remember right that sleeve was so he didnt have to pull the tubes.That goes good with last issue of 4 wheelers back yard shorten job. Dont get me wrong im sure you can do it and it will be shorter but i ? how straight it would be if you have no way of showing me it was straight.It just goes back to ya get what you pay for or dont pay for.

If I remember right didnt he have a jig running through the bearing caps and the tube ends when he welded them on?

Originally posted by mike
If I remember right didnt he have a jig running through the bearing caps and the tube ends when he welded them on? most likely. i cant find were i saved that report

Originally posted by GearMan
most likely. i cant find were i saved that report

this should keep it straight and true correct?

Well what do you say guys, is this a kosher method or not?

I have a drill press, cutting machinery, a 20 ton press, a torch, and time. I don't have the metal lathe to make a jig though.

By the way, here's the link to that page you guys have been talking about: Building a Reverse Rotation Dana 60 (http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2000/highpiniond60rear/highpiniond60rear.cfm)

The sleeve doesn't do anything except allow you to add more tubing to make it the right length. You need a jig!!!! Just built another one on the 31st and the factory side was more off than the side we added the tube too. The housing ends need to be centered on the carrier the only way you can do this accurattly is with a jig. Do one and you'll see what I mean. They defiantly don't center on the tube at all.

So gearman why did that write up give you a laugh? The sleeving wasn't done to shorten the axle it was done to add length to the short side of a front axle. That way it could be used with ford housing ends to make a rear axle. I used a jig to weld the housing ends on so I know it was straight as an arrow when it was done. It has now been in use for two years with no problems. Maybe you can explain to me what was wrong with the method I used??

Why does the sleeve not keep it straight? If it is a press fit, and both of the outer tubes are straight, and the inner sleeve is straight - how can it not be straight?

Originally posted by DRM
Why does the sleeve not keep it straight? If it is a press fit, and both of the outer tubes are straight, and the inner sleeve is straight - how can it not be straight?

Read the entire post :rolleyes: the sleeve may keep the tube straight but who cares the tubes don't have bearings in them and the ends and carier need to be in line so you MUST have a jig or you will have a 1 in 1,000 of a good housing.

I think what DRM is saying is that the ends are kept intact (no new housing ends to weld on) therefore no alignment to worry about... I considered this method for a long time too, before I just decided to go full width and forget about it. I'm sure it would work w/o a jig, but then again I've never done it so I'll just shut-up now...;)

--D

Originally posted by EBSTEVE


Read the entire post :rolleyes: the sleeve may keep the tube straight but who cares the tubes don't have bearings in them and the ends and carier need to be in line so you MUST have a jig or you will have a 1 in 1,000 of a good housing.

So what do these jigs look like?

A long piece of especially straight steel run from yoke to yoke through the bearing caps? With large donuts inside the bearing caps to keep the alignment "dowel" centere where the axle shafts would enter the carrier?

Wouldn't this alignment also be a concern when rotating knuckles, too, then? You're cutting them off (or nearly), rotating, and rewelding.. but I haven't heard of anyone building a jig to keep things aligned "just so"..

You need the jig no matter what. Whenever you weld tubes to the center or outer or even in a sleeved manner, the tubes move around and aren't in alignment. A 1.5" piece of round stock and 4 pucks works great. A machine shop won't charge you much to make the pucks as it only takes about 5-10 mins to make each one. Of course, you could hope and pray and maybe not keep wasting your carrier and the bearings.

Easy

I narrow axles just like Mike does and in answer to the question, the only reason you would need a jig is if you want the axles to be straight. If you get the tubes out, cut them down, and press them back in it will be narrower, but you have no way of knowing if they're straight. What you need to end up with is the wheel bearings and the carrier bearings to be aligned with each other. If the tubes are slightly bent (which most are, see mike's note above) that doesn't even matter if the ends are welded on straight. Otherwise, your axles may fit in but the splines will not engage uniformly around the axle and they will wear unevenly.

If the tubes are slightly bent (which most are)

Ahhh...That makes sense...I suppose if it's a trial-only rig then perfect alignment wouldn't be too critical, but better right than wrong, especially considering that making/having made the jig shouldn't be too much $.

--D

Originally posted by BlueJeep
I narrow axles just like Mike does and in answer to the question, the only reason you would need a jig is if you want the axles to be straight. Otherwise, your axles may fit in but the splines will not engage uniformly around the axle and they will wear unevenly.

Even for the front? You can adjust the camber with shims under the spindle if necessary..

I want to retube a Ford HP44 to passenger-side diff for my Scout.

How would you affix the knuckle end of the alignment rod?

1.31" rod, some pucks for the carrier bearings.. simple enough..

But what about the yokes on the end?

Run the 1.31" rod all the way through the spindle?

Lots of good info and idea's. I have a local race shop that will do it for $75. I like to do everything myself also but there is a point where it's easier/safer/smarter to take it somewhere and have it done. Have you checked around?

Fronts are completely different. When I narrow a front I separate (by grinding off the welds) the knuckles from the tubes, cut off the tubes, and press the knuckles back on. I don't use my jig for the front. Mike had an article on making a passenger side drop HP 44 too.

Originally posted by MattS
I have a local race shop that will do it for $75. I like to do everything myself also but there is a point where it's easier/safer/smarter to take it somewhere and have it done. Have you checked around?


I have, and the price that I was quoted was way more than $75. I'm just trying to save money if at all possible.

What's an alignment jig going to help when you are pressing the tubes into the pig? I can't imagine that the pig is going to allow any angularity when pressing the tubes in.

The alignment jig is for welding the outers back onto the tube, right? Well If I don't take the outers off the end of the tubes then I won't need a jig for alignment becasue the pig will do the aligning. Is this correct?


Sorry for beating this topic to death.



thanks,

When the housing was built the ends were welded on aligned with the carrier. So lets say the axle had 1/4" of run out on the tube. You lope 5" off the inside of the tube and press it back in. Now maybe you only have 1/8" of run out. Not that big of deal but the housing ends are no longer centered on the carrier. Might work but with that kind of money tied up in an axle, shafts, and gears why would you want to take a chance. The jig is easy to build if you have a lathe. If not they can be bought. Doing it right is the best way.

Not to mention the axle tubes are machined down were they press into the housing. So at the ends it may measure 3.125 but were it presses into the housing center section it may be machined down to 3.000. Look near your housing at your tubes if they aren't to rusty you should be able to see the slight step in the material.

I still don't see a real reason why either.

Let me set up an example.

I have a 68" wide rear Jeep J20 Dana 60 axle with the shunk offset roughly 7" to the pass. side.

What I would do is cut the long side tube in two places, taking out a 5" section of tube. What would then do is use a piece of tube that is a press fit into the two stock long side sections of the axle tube.

Now, assuming the stock tubes were straight, and the inner sleeve is straight and is a press fit, how can it NOT be lined up the same it was from the factory?

Not saying a jig would not be better to double check, just wondering how - using the method I described above - the axle could end up out of alignment, and if it was out of alignment, how the heck could you adjust it anyway? :confused:

the ends, the bearing race surfaces must be parallel.

the tube doesnt matter at all, that swhy the sleeving doesnt adress the bearings alighment.



the tube a certain runout, a tolerance, and you can multiply that by the length of tube and see how far out it might be.

must have a jig, or must like replaceing bearings.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DRM
[B]I still don't see a real reason why either.

]BECAUSE ITS NOT A PERFECT WORLD

Originally posted by GearMan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DRM
[B]I still don't see a real reason why either.

]BECAUSE ITS NOT A PERFECT WORLD



amen