I'm thinking I might go with strange axles for my 35 spline 9"
Any ideas, suggestions?

Comparisons between these Moser and Dutchman

Heres a link

http://www.qkiss.com/axle35spline.htm

I didn't see a comparison, I saw a bashing. I run dutchman. No problems.

I was asking you guys to give me opinions and comparisons.

Of course all the manufacturers are gonna say that they have a superior product.

Nice pitch...And they've been in the drag scene for about a million years...Might be worth checking it out. Any idea on price?

--D

No idea on the price from strange

I did call dutchman this morning. they said $370 with bearing seals studs.
all presssed and ready to go.

Well this remain as one of the great unanswered questions.

Well, a few actually.

Namely,

1) What are the different strengths and weaknesses of the different alloys and processes used

2) Is a 4 wheeler better off with better fatigue life or better one time overload or does it depend on the type of wheeling. Is there even a distinct line ?

3) How applicable to 4 wheeling is the experience and engineering of race and drag cars? Are the loads experienced, similar, somewhat similar, or totally different...or does it depend again?

We've been sort of kicking this around a bit lately with our discussions of alloy shafts. Don;t know what the answers all are. Do know that the "sport" as such is still in its infancy, therefore no one has yet done a lot of scientific or engineeering destruction testing. A lot of anecdotal evidence - bu that doesn't necesarily clearly point to the truth.

What the hell am i rambling about.

I know Strange make 2 types, a street/strip series of 1541 that is induction hardened, and a pro race series that is made of Hy Tuf and is induction hardened.

Either one you will get a quality engineered product, from one of the very best axle makers (for race cars anyway)...but will it be the right tool for the job? I don't know.

Personally, I'd like to see you get the Hy Tuf pro race series axles and abuse the hell out of them and let us know, and if they fail, have the failure analysed and report results.....but I'm great at spending other peoples money.

Long story short, and only my estimation of the situation.

If you want an axle most resistant to fatiguing, go with a Moser or Strange S/S. If you want a harder axle more resistant ot one time overload break, but that will likely fatigue more quickly...go with a Warn/Dutchman or Strange Pro race.

Todd- Give Sean (aka Gearman) a call and get his 2 cents worth. He'll give you a straight answer and you know he knows his sh!t.

That was my original plan Mark. I'm gonna deliver my third member and my 44 to him to have him do the gears.

What u-joints or you going to use in the D44?

Originally posted by BillaVista

If you want an axle most resistant to fatiguing, go with a Moser or Strange S/S. If you want a harder axle more resistant ot one time overload break, but that will likely fatigue more quickly...go with a Warn/Dutchman or Strange Pro race.

If we are talking about rear shafts, according to their website, Dutchman uses 1541h, same as Moser and Strange S/T. Dutchman's front shafts are 4340 thru-hardened.

Originally posted by Ben W


If we are talking about rear shafts, according to their website, Dutchman uses 1541h, same as Moser and Strange S/T. Dutchman's front shafts are 4340 thru-hardened.


very true. The only company that I know of that makes their rear shafts with 4340 is warn. Dutchman's front shafts are made of 4340 because they buy warn axles and cut them down.:beer:

Mark I'm just gonna use whatever u joints are in stock:D

The axles I'm getting are the 35 splined dealies for my 9"
I'm gonna run Pick N pull front shafts.
So far they have had the best replacement policy for the price :D

So far I have two extra sets of axles for the front.

Moser, Currie, Dutchman, and Strange axles are all pretty much exactly the same, they all buy pre-machined, induction hardened 1541H axle blanks (some from the same place), they just cut-off, cut the splines hard, turn the brake register, and drill the bolt pattern. These are all quality axles but they do have limitations, If you need some thing stronger, Strange, Mark Williams, and Summers Bros. makes truely custom axles that have the proper neck-down and are through-hardened. Strange claims Hy-Tuff, Summers are 4340 and Mark Williams are some sort of Cr-Ni-Mo alloy, probably 4340 also, they all run about $500. Which alloy is best ? it is just a matter of opinion as they are all pretty comperable. IMHO, you might be better off with Summers Bros. they do alot of off-road stuff and the others are mainly drag. They usually lighten up the axles by making the flange thinner, the Summers are a little beefier to handle the off-road punishment.

In the FWIW department, I'm running the STRANGE Hy-Tuff shafts in my D60 rear. Been in there for 5 years behind an injected and massaged 1967 375HP 440, turning 38.5 SX's. I've always dealt strictly with STRANGE over the years. Can't beat there service. My.02

I like the Hy-Tuff type shafts, you can substitute the Summers Bros or Mark Williams alloys, for the through hardened treatment. I know that the STRANGE shafts are hardened to the center and they are hardened after the machine work. Where as the S/T shafts are only "surface" hardened, the S/T type shafts come as blanks, as previously mentioned, and then are machined. For My $$ I'd go with the Hy-Tuff shafts (or similar).

5 years ago, mine were $365 with studs, bearing retainers and bearings pressed, in the box out the door.

Believe it or not STRANGE used to make front shafts out of the Hy-Tuff material. We ran a set in a mud racer for years. Never could keep a joint in them though, but the shafts kept on taking the abuse. Big block, D44 and 44" Ground Hawgs (gee am I showing my age there?) don't mix well. They never sold many of them and cut them from their inventory. Wish they would bring them back now and give WARN some competition. That and U-Joints made from the Hy-Tuff would be awesome.

Keep asking questions, but for my $$ I'd go STRANGE without any hesitation. What are you doing for a differential? They make an awesome spool as well.

Hey GOAT you mention neck down.
How much can you neck down a 35 spline axle?

Doesn't look like you can do too much necking down at this point.

As for neck down. The Hy-Tuff shafts run involuted splines. Meaning the o.d. of the shaft itself is the same as the i.d. of the splines. The splines are "raised" if you will.

Involute splines refer to the profile of the spline looking from the end, which means they were cut on a gear hob. it is the same way gears are cut. Most of the good custom axles that are splined before HT are cut this way. The induction hardened axle blanks are cut on a mill single point which can't generate an involute spline. Strange and Mark Williams claim involute is better, but I dont think it really matters on an axle spline that doesnt slip. As far an neck down, the minor diameter of a fillet root 35 spline is 1.361, I like to make them a little smaller to lessen the effect of stress risers to about 1.300. This lets the entire length of the axle to twist rather that the splined area.

Goat1,

Is this right (profile view - end on)

_
/ \ - Involute spline

_
| | - non-involute spline

So, to clarify, ANYof the aftermarket 1541 axles are gonna be stronger than OEM type shafts, but no quite as strong as the Hy-tuff or 4340 axles.

I imagine hobbed splines are also gonna be stronger than single point cut splines, and will, in fact, fit your carrier better. (Depending on the shape of the broached splines of your particular carrier). Which raises the question: are all domestic OEM splines the same shape?

Now we're getting to the meat of the matter, which is why POR is the best site on the planet!

This is very germane to my current situation, as I'm about to lay down $$$$ for new rear Ford 8.8 shafts, and new 44 front shafts.

ANDY

Originally posted by afecko
So, to clarify, ANYof the aftermarket 1541 axles are gonna be stronger than OEM type shafts, but no quite as strong as the Hy-tuff or 4340 axles.

I imagine hobbed splines are also gonna be stronger than single point cut splines, and will, in fact, fit your carrier better. (Depending on the shape of the broached splines of your particular carrier). Which raises the question: are all domestic OEM splines the same shape?

Now we're getting to the meat of the matter, which is why POR is the best site on the planet!

This is very germane to my current situation, as I'm about to lay down $$$$ for new rear Ford 8.8 shafts, and new 44 front shafts.

ANDY


You are correct sir.
As far as hobbed vs. single point spline, it's not really an issue, either way will work just the same.

I can give a little spline/gear 101 if anyone's interested.

Originally posted by GOAT1



You are correct sir.
As far as hobbed vs. single point spline, it's not really an issue, either way will work just the same.

I can give a little spline/gear 101 if anyone's interested.

Definately give the 101, that would awesome.

Splines are classified by the number of teeth, the diametrical pitch and the pressure angle.
-The number of teeth is self explanitory

-The diametrical pitch is the number of teeth per inch of pitch diameter, similar to # of threads per inch for threads. The pitch controls the pitch diameter, the major diameter, minor diameter, and so on. An example is 24/48, the first number is the diametrical pitch, the second number is the stub pitch and controls the tooth depth, it is always double the diametrical pitch for the stuff we are dealing with, dont worry about it, it just tags along. Common diametrical pitches for automotive axles are 16/32, 24/48 and 32/64. All of our 28, 30, 31, 35, 40 spline axles are 24/48 pitch. A 35 spline, 24/48 axle would have a pitch diameter of 35 divided by 24 = 1.458, a 30 spline would be 30/24=1.25 this is why more spline = bigger when they have the same pitch. The old Jeep 19 spline axles are 16/32 pitch so they have a 19/16=1.188 pitch diameter.

-The pressure angle is pretty complicated but basically it is the angle of the spine tooth. There are two common pressure angles used for splines, 30 deg and 45 deg, and sometimes 37.5 deg. Looking down the end of a spined shaft, the spine looks something like this ^, this angle will be 90 deg for a 45 deg spline, and 60 deg for a 30 deg spline. Dana and GM axles are 30 deg, ford is 45 deg, toyota and most other foreign stuff is also 45 deg, some rockwell and older stuff is 37.5 deg.

Splines also have a fillet root or flat root, a fillet root has a smaller minor diameter than the flat root but is better for stress concentrations, flat roots let you have a larger minor diameter for greater torque capacity. Most of our axles are fillet root.

Often times splines are called by the major diameter, what you can measure with calipers, this is driven by the pitch, it is calculated by this equation Do=(N+1)/P so a the major diameter of a 35 spline, 24/48 would be (35+1)/24=1.50, and a 30 spline is 1.291.

This is the basics, If you have any other questions, let me know.

Thanks, GOAT1, for the info. It's helpful to know what the hel;l I'm talking about when I call a vendor!

Andy