Which companys coil over kits are better? Would you guys recomend one company over the other and if so what are your reasons? Who makes a more complete kit and which one works better in the trail? Thanks in advance!

You gotta search..... type in schaffers. It's been covered a lot in the past couple months.

Look here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190665)
Look here too (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220685&highlight=schaffers)

Damn noob..:flipoff2: Wait I'm one too. :D

Koko

Guess who made and designed the first and second kit ? Schaffers did . Mike is a stand up guy and is who I would order from . just my .02

Real deal versus blatent copy...the choice is yours!

Well by the replys and my searches it seems as if the Shaffers kit is a lot better.....especially the new kit. When it comes that time I guess he will get my call. I have heard some really bad stories about RRO and them screwing people over and what not. I was hoping me posting this could bring some attention to that. Are these some over exagerated stories or is there truth behind it? I have heard stuff from people not getting the stuff they orderd for almost a year all the way to not getting it at all. I know I will probably be ordering some things from RRO I jsut want to make sure I am not going to regret that decision.

I would have to think that Schaffers has better customer service, not to mention a newer version of that coil kit.

I like RRO i think there web sight is killer, I tryed to order a set of Old Man Emu springs from them about 2yrs ago and after 6months they still didnt have them to send. So after pestering them for about 2 weeks straight they turned me on to thier supplier. ARB they sent me direct, I got better deal, met some real cool people at ARB and bought 2 airlocker while I was there, Thanks RRO. I will order soon. LOL

Looks like this is going to be a rough week, in Heber City, Utah...

Shaffer

Originally posted by mypayperview
I like RRO i think there web sight is killer,
OH, PLEASE! http://www.ls6.com/forums/images/smilie/rolleyes.gif I'm assuming you never heard the words 'Never judge a book by its cover'

I tryed to order a set of Old Man Emu springs from them about 2yrs ago and after 6months they still didnt have them to send..... Status quo!

So after pestering them for about 2 weeks straight they turned me on to thier supplier. ARB they sent me direct, I got better deal, met some real cool people..... Well DUH! You're lucky only two weeks...try waiting months after they took your money! :mad:

Thanks RRO. I will order soon. LOL [/B] http://www.ls6.com/forums/images/smilie/nono.gif You have already told us that you've been there and done that!:rolleyes: But the choice is yours, good luck.

Originally posted by mypayperview
I like RRO i think there web sight is killer

Who gives a fawk about thier website ? :flipoff2:

As for the coil kit the Shaffer's is dominate! I am doing my install right now. This is some very heavy duty stuff, well thought out, and the customer service by Shaffer's is excellent!!

I have ordered some things from RRO (rear bumper, poly body bushings, and some other minor things) and have mostly had good experiences, and Glenn has been pretty helpful with advice. He seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. Just watch out for anything that's on backorder because I've heard some stories too.. just haven't had any bad experiences yet myself. They did slightly mess up my rear bumper order but they took care of it quickly and painlessly.

I would say for common parts you can't go wrong with RRO.. but if you want a superior coil kit go pick up Shaffer's, you won't be dissapointed.

Originally posted by mypayperview
I like RRO i think there web sight is killer........Thanks RRO. I will order soon. LOL

Apparently by some of the posts in response to this one, I'm the only person that took these sentences as sarcasm:confused:
________
Free Starbucks Gift Card (http://bestfreegiftcard.com/starbucks-gift-card/)

Originally posted by Indyguy


Apparently by some of the posts in response to this one, I'm the only person that took these sentences as sarcasm:confused:

Nah, I saw the sarcasm too. I'm sure he's gonna put in that order REAL soon...

:shaking:

over the years i've ordered several things from glenn & always had great service. i placed two orders in the last 3 weeks--one for driveshaft spacers & one for an over-the -top steering set up that they make for each application after the order is placed. i have already received both --super fast shipping & great products imho.
frank

My turn :D


Yes, the Kit that Rocky road is generation 1.5 while the shaffer is 2.0. Yes Shaffer designed, produced, and sold the first coil kit for sammis. Yes there were business problems between them and RRO. Fortunately I was never involved but..........

The more complete kit still comes from RRO. No lie there. You can get steering, driveshafts, and shocks in a kit at a better price. But to say that the "new" kit is better than the old. That is yet to be seen. Who here has taken it out on the trail yet. NONE of us have. That being said I would probably buy the newer kit being produced by Shaffer. The design is better but the performance gains are yet to be seen. To be honest, I don't think it will offer any more flex, stability or any other performance measure than the "old" setup. I do believe that it is more "modern" and is less likely to have a problem. I do have the version 1.5 and I have NEVER had a problem with it nor do I anticipate having one. You make your own choice, it's your cash!!

I can't help but chime in here...:D I bought a pile of parts from RRO in the early days too...Just tried to spread the Samurai build-up dollars around the best I could. So...I bought front shock towers - Cracked BOTH of them at the welds. Bought U-bolts - they sent the wrong size. Bought the grease-able shackle bolt kit - They shorted me two. Bought OME leaf springs and after destroying the fronts in two runs(flattened out), ARB told me directly that I should not have been sold their regular springs for the front...Should have been their heavy duty versions. Bought the gusseted spring over perches because "They install super easy. No more guessing to make sure your angles are correct. Our spring pads self-align. You cannot mess up the castor angles." - had to grind the rears to fit and align...the front's were so far off that I ended up making my own. After two e-mails (no response) and two phone calls to the shop (they were more baffled than I was)...I posted the "Has anyone else solved this problem?" question on the Topica list. Glenn HIMSELF responded to me and to the list ripping me a new one (I didn't NEED a second one) for taking this issue "Public." To that I say :flipoff:

Now, through all this, I called the shop...spoke with a couple of different people and even sent my share of e-mail. Satisfactory response on a single issue? Nope. Well, they did offer to take back the u-bolts and front perches for store credit. I ordered IPF headlights to use up the credit...I mean how far wrong can this one go? 6 weeks. Calling there...I'd get, "I'm sorry, WHO is this?" "I don't see that credit anywhere." "They were supposed to be shipped already." "I'll ship them myself." "I'm Sorry. WHO is this again?" Good lord. I'm done. At this point, were I to order another part from RRO, there would be no one to blame but myself and the $600 or so I've spent there...and subsequently scrapped...is chalked up to my education.

As far as Mike Shaffer is concerned, he's a stand up guy...except when he's rock crawling...then he's a sit-down guy. :D He developed the original kit. He developed the prototype for his new kit on my Sammy (It's the one on the ramp on his website)...I got a chance to meet Rob, Peter Mike and the rest of the crew and they're a good group. So far, I love the coil kit. I just had a buddy over to the house yesterday and he was admiring the way the kit was put together. I'd be hard pressed to see how one could go wrong with Mike's kit.

Thanks for listening. I feel better now.:D

Thanks for the input guys. Do you have any new "Flex" pics of the new kit cap'n ron? Have you braught it out anywhere at all (besides that hill you test stuff at) and did you end up getting the Tcase gears?

How is the ride on the street with the coil overs? Does RRO exagerate the ride quality? If I could have a sammi ridding like a caddy I would be more than pleased.

RRO OTT steering... Do any of you have that kit? Is there a story behind that like there is with the coils? Should I worry about ordering this from them? SHould I order it now if I am planning on installing it next winter?

Originally posted by XJOSHX
Thanks for the input guys. Do you have any new "Flex" pics of the new kit cap'n ron? Have you braught it out anywhere at all (besides that hill you test stuff at) and did you end up getting the Tcase gears?

How is the ride on the street with the coil overs? Does RRO exagerate the ride quality? If I could have a sammi ridding like a caddy I would be more than pleased.

RRO OTT steering... Do any of you have that kit? Is there a story behind that like there is with the coils? Should I worry about ordering this from them? SHould I order it now if I am planning on installing it next winter?

Dude...that's a LOT of questions for one post. Slow down there, Turbo! :D I'll address a couple of them... I don't have any new flex pics as I haven't taken the rig out much lately (It's been a looong hard winter down here in Southern California :flipoff2: ). I have done a lot of flex testing at my test site and I continue to be impressed. I'll be taking it to Moab for EJS and will be doing a full write-up on the over all impressions, performance, ride, flex...and include a few pics. Bottom line is that the kit that NC Zuk is running will likely flex nearly as much...or as much as Mike's new kit. But like he said, "I do believe that it is more "modern" and is less likely to have a problem." I'll second that.

The ride? Cadillac? Hardly. If you read a lot on Glenn's web site, it starts to sound like a late night infomercial with a lot of superlatives. " a total bomb-proof setup!" "They chose our system for one simple reason, it is the best!" "The ride was dreamy and felt as good as any modern SUV we've been in!" Good grief. Now, it does ride a lot nicer than a stock leaf spring setup, but my spring-over OME leaf spring setup was nearly as comfy as the coils. You're still dealing with a short wheelbase vehicle and you'll never get the ride of a stretched 6,000lb Caddy...no matter how many exclaimation points I put on the end of a sentence saying that you will!!!!

T-case gears? Yep...Got a case...Got a 12T press...Got the 6.38:1 Trail Tough gears...and Got it all put together last weekend. Haven't bolted it in yet, but that's next.

Anything else? :D

Guys, I really need to make something clear. I have nothing but good things to say about Mike Shaffer. It probably seems like i'm the anti Shaffer but that is so far from the truth. Mike has always been so cool when I have called with questions. And the guys at the shop have always helped me. GREAT GUYS!! I just happened to be buying a coil kit when there was so much turbulance in the zuki communityover the coil controversy. That being said the only option I really had was RRO and they have done very well by me. So that is why I say so much about the RRO/Shaffer older version kit. I wish I had the cash to buy Mikes new kit to put on my wifes Sammi. Then I could compare them and see what the real deal is.

XJOSHX, where in Mass. are you? I am about 15 minutes from Springfield. I have Shaffers kit. He custom made it for Land Cruiser axles and I am happy with how it turned out. Since you will probally be wheeling the same trails that I do (we dont have a bunch of choices like some other parts of the country), you should think about some better axles. Adding them later will be a PITA.

I live in New Bedford. Thats a good hour from springfield or maybe ever more. I would like to make a trip and meet up with you somewhere sometime if you want. I'm in the market for a new samurai.....see any around really really cheap? I found an SJ410 for 200 bucks in the want ad. If you know anyone that wants to, I will throw up 2 jettas as a trade for a stock softop. Axles are going to be toyota axles for sure. I know a guy with a roller 84 4runner in his backyard....been there for maybe 8 years now, and I bet I can get the axles from him relitivly cheap if not the whole truck for free. Are there any legal spots near you? In the whole south eastern part of the state where I am there is like maybe 2 places that are legal. BTW, my Heep buddys are doing a run in maine next month, you are welcome to join if you want. They have been doing the same run for like 5 years now. Last year they had about 20 trucks. Fun times. PM me and we will talk more.

Originally posted by Cap'n Ron
I can't help but chime in here...:D I bought a pile of parts from RRO in the early days too...Just tried to spread the Samurai build-up dollars around the best I could. So...I bought front shock towers - Cracked BOTH of them at the welds. Bought U-bolts - they sent the wrong size. Bought the grease-able shackle bolt kit - They shorted me two. Bought OME leaf springs and after destroying the fronts in two runs(flattened out), ARB told me directly that I should not have been sold their regular springs for the front...Should have been their heavy duty versions. Bought the gusseted spring over perches because "They install super easy. No more guessing to make sure your angles are correct. Our spring pads self-align. You cannot mess up the castor angles." - had to grind the rears to fit and align...the front's were so far off that I ended up making my own. After two e-mails (no response) and two phone calls to the shop (they were more baffled than I was)...I posted the "Has anyone else solved this problem?" question on the Topica list. Glenn HIMSELF responded to me and to the list ripping me a new one (I didn't NEED a second one) for taking this issue "Public." To that I say :flipoff:

Now, through all this, I called the shop...spoke with a couple of different people and even sent my share of e-mail. Satisfactory response on a single issue? Nope. Well, they did offer to take back the u-bolts and front perches for store credit. I ordered IPF headlights to use up the credit...I mean how far wrong can this one go? 6 weeks. Calling there...I'd get, "I'm sorry, WHO is this?" "I don't see that credit anywhere." "They were supposed to be shipped already." "I'll ship them myself." "I'm Sorry. WHO is this again?" Good lord. I'm done. At this point, were I to order another part from RRO, there would be no one to blame but myself and the $600 or so I've spent there...and subsequently scrapped...is chalked up to my education.

Thanks for listening. I feel better now.:D

Tell us what you really think, I mean, spare the sugar-coated version. :laughing:



j/k:jester:

xjoshx---as i stated above, i ordered the over the top steering a couple of weeks ago. when i called, they told me what measurements they need to make it for my set-up, so i called them back with the correct measurements the next day, which was a thursday. was told that the shop would have to make up the parts, which would probably be on the following monday. i had the parts in hand in tampa, fl the following tuesday. so in less than 2 weeks i received my order & it looks great--really beefy construction & i like the way it mounts to the caliper bracket as well as the kingpin mount.
frank

Originally posted by fwilliamsiii
i ordered the over the top steering I found that the bolts they suppied were not strong enough (two broke) so I retapped them for grade 10-allens. The main problem is the (old) style arms had no lateral support other than the 4-bolts. Does yours have any side support ? If not you'll need to add a gusset.http://pics.montypics.com/Crab_Bait/2004-02-20/1077303933_Pass_side.jpg

thanks for the heads up!! i haven't installed them yet, but the one i got has a very stout side support that bolts to the side of the caliper mount--didn't open the hardware package, but it looks like they supply 2 grade 8 studs to mount to the caliper. i'll post after i install this week.
frank

Originally posted by NC Zuk
My turn :D




But to say that the "new" kit is better than the old. That is yet to be seen. Who here has taken it out on the trail yet. NONE of us have. . The design is better but the performance gains are yet to be seen. To be honest, I don't think it will offer any more flex, stability or any other performance measure than the "old" setup. I do believe that it is more "modern" and is less likely to have a problem. I do have the version 1.5 and I have NEVER had a problem with it nor do I anticipate having one. You make your own choice, it's your cash!!


I'm GLAD the old kit has work'd for you... But there are ALOT of changes..

One of the biggest are the front links..
You are running .120 wall HREW.. (when you bend um, and you will, I have a couple old ones that i'll make you a smoke'n deal on)
The new kit is .250 wall DOM

There are also changes in the trac bar angles and brakets..
If you look at your kit the Heim on the trac bar is get'm beat up by the braket itself..... It also has ALOT more bumpsteer.

The Ford busing on your rear diff is another problem that has been cure'd ..
You said that your have'n NO problems, so I'm sure you've done away with it and are using something else, because if your running it, you have had problems with wear and axle wrap... You might not notice in mud so much, but on a nice rock vert you'll hop...

The spring rate is softer on your kit and has WAYYY more body roll than the new kit... Not just changes in the RATE, but in spring placement as well...

The "new" kit was design'd to make up for problems with steering, breakage, ride, and PERFORMANCE....

I for one can tell you that there is no comparison... It's like apples and oranges..

Originally posted by Tin Bender



I'm GLAD the old kit has work'd for you... But there are ALOT of changes..

One of the biggest are the front links..
You are running .120 wall HREW.. (when you bend um, and you will, I have a couple old ones that i'll make you a smoke'n deal on)
The new kit is .250 wall DOM

There are also changes in the trac bar angles and brakets..
If you look at your kit the Heim on the trac bar is get'm beat up by the braket itself..... It also has ALOT more bumpsteer.

The Ford busing on your rear diff is another problem that has been cure'd ..
You said that your have'n NO problems, so I'm sure you've done away with it and are using something else, because if your running it, you have had problems with wear and axle wrap... You might not notice in mud so much, but on a nice rock vert you'll hop...

The spring rate is softer on your kit and has WAYYY more body roll than the new kit... Not just changes in the RATE, but in spring placement as well...

The "new" kit was design'd to make up for problems with steering, breakage, ride, and PERFORMANCE....

I for one can tell you that there is no comparison... It's like apples and oranges..

Hey, i'm glad to see that I didn't draw machine gun fire :D You are right in a few areas and I need to agree that the trac bar does hit itself. I have done some work to fix that. As for the links the ones I have are .250 wall. I had to cut one in half and send it back so I was able to see the wall thickness. As for the Ford Bushing, still no problems to speak of either. I guess i'm the lucky one. But I agree by what you just wrote, the kit is better engineered and should perform very well.

Tell you what, send me one and I'll install it on my other Zuk so I can offer a side by side comparison. If it is that much better I will never say RRO again!! :D

If you go'n to Moab for EJS we'll be give'n one away....

Tell ya what, We here at Shaffers Challenge RRO to do the same...

Next time I talk to Fred Willaims, I'll se if he is interest'd in doing a Head to Head...

Originally posted by Tin Bender
If you go'n to Moab for EJS we'll be give'n one away....

Tell ya what, We here at Shaffers Challenge RRO to do the same...

Next time I talk to Fred Willaims, I'll se if he is interest'd in doing a Head to Head...

They gave one away last year at the melt ;)

Originally posted by NC Zuk


They gave one away last year at the melt ;)


Did they bring it to the melt?:flipoff2:

Ok my turn
I have Shaffers kit in my hot little hands and frankly im not impressed.If i sent something out the door looking like this i would go out of businessShaffers kit was brought in to save time,but as bad as every thing looks now its going to take me that much longer to make it right.Shame on you Mike for letting it leave like this.I under standthat they were behind by a few months but at least they should have been presentable.Anything that leaves our shop is right the first time or tis redone till it is.I have found several faults in the kit that will have to be changed befor it is put on that should have been done by Mike.So in conclusion i would not buy either one.

whoa!!! Please elaborate on what was wrong. Inquiring minds want to know

As much as I hate to say it too.. there are some problems with the kit. Not to mention the shipping.. it was quite possibly the worst shape a package has ever arrived to me in. Shaffer's is taking care of me though as has promised to send all the parts that were lost/broken. We've already made several modifications to it as well. Rob and I have been banging heads for the past few days cleaning these things up. :) I think overall it IS a good kit.. but it could use quite a few minor fixes and modifications for future builds. It is a pretty beefy design, utilizes the reliable rubicon express joints, very straightforward (literally) track-bar setup, nice beefy wishbone... I'll leave the rest of the commenting for Rob.

Originally posted by Tin Bender

There are also changes in the trac bar angles and brakets..
If you look at your kit the Heim on the trac bar is get'm beat up by the braket itself..... It also has ALOT more bumpsteer.
..

Sorry, but I did not follow you, would you please explain me again the reason of the bumpsteer of thr old kit?

Next time I talk to Fred Willaims, I'll se if he is interest'd in doing a Head to Head...



I'll go head to head after i fix your kit into the new and improved 3.0 version....

OUch....
Okay, heres the "inside" scoop....

I am the one in charge of production and I will take ANY and ALL problems with the kit to the chin, because it is my responsiblity..

I will however tell you that the guy who put the kits togetheR NO LONGER works here and that ever kit that go's out will be put together by ME, from now on....

Our office guy who shipped the kits will also soon be "on the road"......


PLEASE PM me for ANY problems, Questions that come up AND I WILL DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO MAKE YOU HAPPY...

Originally posted by Gonzalo Bravo


Sorry, but I did not follow you, would you please explain me again the reason of the bumpsteer of thr old kit?

If you had an old kit, the trac bar mount was hitting the Trac bar itself while under compression and while under twist....
The new mount has been changed to cure this, and the mount on the Axle side is completely differ'nt to help with the old bumpsteer issues....

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
Anything that leaves our shop is right the first time or tis redone till it is.


Well............I do believe I told you when you called that we would send you the parts you need or you could send the kit back to us and we will fix it!.........If you think the kit is junk then send it back and we will refund you card :D

As far as it not fitting, all the kits were built for Sami axles and they fit just fine but if you are running toy axles you can use the kit with some work. We use the mounts in this kit on most of the dana 60 installs we do and yes we do trim the mounts to fit.

Any back yard fab guy can install this kit but it should be installed by a shop! This is not a bolt on lift kit! The toy kits need more work to install, and if your fab shop can't install it find a new fab shop!

We do install our kits and some times will pick your rig up as we did for Ron

As for you zukzilla4x4 you told me you would not talk shit on the board after you called and I told you that I wound fix the prob but now you have gone back on your word....... You're a real stand up guy! But thats cool :rolleyes:

Tell your customer If he needs to get the kit installed to give me a call I will come pick it up! And if your realy thinking about going toe to toe with me, the shop, or the kit. Soulds like good times:D

No NO NO I said i would not say anything till I talked to you I did not say I would not post.
As far as going back on words heres yours
....We are building a kit for toy axles and its the same price!

You never told anybody that it was the SAME kit just cut it up.Kinda lame dont you think.

As for toe to toe no prob. Ill have kits for sammy,toy.,and dana axles wheather I get a demand for them or not ......

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
No NO NO I said i would not say anything till I talked to you I did not say I would not post.
As far as going back on words heres yours


You never told anybody that it was the SAME kit just cut it up.Kinda lame dont you think.

As for toe to toe no prob. Ill have kits for sammy,toy.,and dana axles wheather I get a demand for them or not ......


So did you order the kit from me? How isit that you know that no one was told that the kit was for sami axles? yes i did say we would have a kit for toy axles out in mid summer

As far as your kit gos send it back for a refund if you not happy!And then you cound build you own kit.......

I would do any thing I could to help out a customer and that is the most I can do:D



Lets see I've offerd to refund your $$, I've offerd to pick the rig up 2000 miles away and install it for you,and I have agreed to send you whatever parts it would take to replace the ones you say don't fit properly.
Now you say that your comeing out with kit?? I have MORE than shown that I will do WHATEVER it takes to make my customers happy, so is the point of your post to say that my customer service sucks, OR is this a way for you to TRY and slam Shaffers Offroad while TRYING to pimp your so called kit??

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4

Anything that leaves our shop is right the first time or tis redone till it is.


So let me see, did someone else make that rear bumper?? Are you going to sell that thing too?...lol
How about the blue smoke, is that "RIGHT"....LOL

If you get a Chance, gimmie a price on that TRICK ass rear bumper of yours...:eek: :rolleyes:

Not trying to pimp anything.but you told everyone that you were making these kits to fit either zuk or toy axles In this batch not by mid summer.Not trying to slam you either but what you told everyone here is not what you did.I was already in the process of a kit anyway.IM also not knocking your kit,for sammy axles its great,but you told everyone that if they wanted one to fit toy axles that it could be done the only thing that was changed was the panhard bar...thats a real custom kit let me tell you.you know as well as I do that the axle brackets should have been cut for the toys.Thats what you said and thats what should have been done.I can understand unforseen problems thats why the ship date was missed.I have those too.It happens!But what i still dont understand is the reasoning behind not cutting the kit for toy parts.A few simple programing changes at the laser cutters and poof a toy kit.Im shure you have toy axles to get dim. from dont you?Like I said befor not knocking you or the kit,but in my opinion and thats all it is is my opinion it needs some work.There are only a few changes I would do to it and as comptiant as you are you already know what these changes are.

howabout that trick cage and front bumper too....LOL

Working on a cage that will take place of the hoop for the soft top.IT all takes time

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
Working on a cage that will take place of the hoop for the soft top.IT all takes time


It all takes time..........you are so right! We have all you part going out to you monday. Is this stell cool? Are we done with the shit talking .....Give me a call monday and Peter will give you the tracking #




Thanks
Mike Shaffer