ok i think i got it this time

Wow wish I would of thought of that before I sold my 1/2 ton chevy and bought a 02 turbo diesel dodge 4x4. Its flat there isnt it hows your trailer breaks?:eek:

aw it stops pretty well and no its not really flat but the gas milage is great

That's cool! ...but why not just flat tow it, or just plain drive it to the trails? The Blue Rig doesn't look like it would break any DOT Laws...Doesn't look like the trailer can hold much, so it's not like you need it for storage, per say...

Just curious. :confused:

Zuk's are NOT tow rigs!!! :flipoff2:

That is cool, a bit guttless I would think. I think he is towing the blue sami just incase he blows the white one this way he can tow the white one home. Or maybe if the blue sami dont last all day of wheeling he has white one to back him up. Just a little humor here looks cool.

Originally posted by Starslope
Zuk's are NOT tow rigs!!! :flipoff2:

Yes they are, I use my XL-7 all the time ;)

Very VERY SCAREY......

Originally posted by Chemical442
That's cool! ...but why not just flat tow it, or just plain drive it to the trails? The Blue Rig doesn't look like it would break any DOT Laws...Doesn't look like the trailer can hold much, so it's not like you need it for storage, per say...

Just curious. :confused:

Good question. Why are you towing beyond that rig's capability for a load that doesn't need to be towed?

He just put that toghether so he could post a picture and start a rucus.
The state Hwy patrol would put his ass in jail if they saw that.

i ran that setup to zukfreeze from Oklahoma City to Disney 380 miles round trip dot had no problem with it.We haul sammies like this all the time.

Zukzilla, where'd you get that Trailer from? I'm gettin a Tracker soon, and I'll be using my Taco to tow it :D Need a light ass trailer like that one!!

Originally posted by Oil burnin'
He just put that toghether so he could post a picture and start a rucus.
The state Hwy patrol would put his ass in jail if they saw that.

Nope, it's a fact. I watched him pull into Disney with that rig!

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/zukifreeze_2004/pict8586_thm.jpg

I think it's pretty scary myself, but it's no fake...

Originally posted by Oil burnin'

The state Hwy patrol would put his ass in jail if they saw that.

probably not, we are talking about OK here....

I think you can sit on a bucket and drive as long as your seatbelt will connect around you....

show me the CA code that says you can't tow a sammy with a sammy :flipoff2:

yep,thats scary.but it is ok.the last time i was coming home from nebraska down i-35 every car on the road was passing my ass.so i set my cruise at 90mph and got passed by a state trooper:eek:

Originally posted by Chemical442
That's cool! ...but why not just flat tow it, or just plain drive it to the trails? The Blue Rig doesn't look like it would break any DOT Laws...Doesn't look like the trailer can hold much, so it's not like you need it for storage, per say...
Brian, when you have a completed sammy to wheel, you will soon discover that any obstacle that requires you to drive your 4x4 right at it's limit to climb is going to suck. You have this voice in your head saying "I gotta drive this home, must back down, must back down".

And there's a lot of things that you can break that'll keep you from flat towing something home - it's impossible to carry spares for them all... not to mention you really can't back up while flat towing.

You can always have a buddy winch your crumpled ball of tinfoil back onto your trailer for the ride home. :D

Good points, T! :)

Hey guys, don't knock it til you've tried it:cool: I towed a built zuk with my built zuk(built by "1990 standards") using only a home-made 5 foot tow bar....towed it to Moab and did just fine...55 mph all the way.

Originally posted by Oil burnin'
He just put that toghether so he could post a picture and start a rucus.
The state Hwy patrol would put his ass in jail if they saw that.


It is a fact that he drove it that way all the way to Disney. I saw it too.....Admittedly scary, but it was done and seemed to work just fine.:eek:

we haul zuks like this all the time.when i get to the shop tomarrow ill post some more pics.

as an unregulated veh.(non com.) the same rules do not apply.I could use it to haul a dump truck if i wanted and there is nothing that ANY STATE would do or say.and if it were regulated all you have to do is tag it at the weight you plan on hauling.

CHOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flipoff2:

"as an unregulated veh.(non com.) the same rules do not apply.I could use it to haul a dump truck if i wanted and there is nothing that ANY STATE would do or say.and if it were regulated all you have to do is tag it at the weight you plan on hauling"


Completely ....false!!!!!!

Anytime you tow over the vehicles stated capacity, you can be ticketed. If you are involved in an accident you can be cited, no matter who's fault it is. Also your insurance company can deny your claim.

I have a GMC with a 383 stroker, airbags in the rear, 14 bolt 3/4 ton lsd rear end, ceramic brakes pads and vented rotors in the front to tow my boat, just for safety.


The capacity of the tow rig to get the load going is the least important factor in towing capacity. The ability to transfer the load to the rear axle and keep it controlled is more important than horsepower. The most important factor is the braking capacity. Sammies have some of the smallest brakes out there with very little surface area to cool after they heat up. The rear drum is 8.66 x 1.34 in. The pads are less than 1.5 inches wide!!

You have taken a stock looking sammie and added the weight of a trailer and a built Sammie to it. By the looks of it you have at least 500 pounds added to the trail rig. Your trailer must be at least 350 pounds. A stock Sammie weighs 2094 lbs. If my figures are close, you are towing at least 3000 lbs, or 1.5 times the weight of your tow rig. The Gross Vehicle Wt. Rating is 2923 lb. That leaves you 829 lbs of weight to carry. Most trailers have 15% of the weight on the hitch or 450 lbs for your scenario. GVWs are dry weights, you have to add the weight of the gas, passengers and tools etc. You have 379 lbs left for that.

Do you know what the tongue weight limit is for any Sammie? 100 lbs. Your tow limit is 1000 lbs. You are towing more than 3 times the rated towing capacity!! Your tongue weight is 4.5 times over the limit. To put it into perspective, my tow rating is 10,000 lbs. If I was overtowing as much as you, in my GMC, I would have 10 of your trail Sammies behind me!!

You have every right to tow what you want, but let us know where you are towing, so we can get off the road and out of your way!!

this one on the trailer out weighs the other twice over

another

oh and then how do you explane my 1/2 ton ford thats rated for 25,000 and pulls a 36ft 5th wheel hauling heavy equpt..how ill tell you i rated it that way and you can rate any veh.different than what the manfacture rates themand its all perfectly legal

I could use it to haul a dump truck

I actually saw a guy pulling a HUGE dump truck by a chain down the freeway using his shiny new Chevy Duramax. They were going about 65MPH. DPS pulled him over about 1 mi down the road after I noticed it.

pulling with chain is illegal.as far as rating a vehicle all you have to do is get it rated when you tag it.

That is f@#*'n hilarious, zuks are slow enough w/ 2 peple in the back seat, that thing must really drag ass.

Originally posted by Oil burnin'

The state Hwy patrol would put his ass in jail if they saw that.

You dont drive on I5 much do you? I have seen an FJ-40 towing a half ton chevy 4x4 on a trailer, an aerostar flat towing a sammi, nissan pickup flat towing a 2wd chevy half ton, quite a few more, but one of he worst ones was a few days ago, I saw a 3/4 ton chevy flat towing a 1 ton crew cab dulley ford with a pueny little tow bar. I would amagine it was rated for 5k max, and that ford was probabally pushing 9k lbs.

lots of scarry setups out there.

Way too risky for me. I'd worry about killing someone when i slid into them with a vechicle that was designed to tow 1000lbs max, and then the huge lawsuit that would follow.

well i just called DOT to see if im legal they said im over weight by one samurai

on the other note i really do know what im talking about

lol...nuff said:D

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
well i just called DOT to see if im legal they said im over weight by one samurai :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I don’t doubt you did it.
Was it safe?

No.

You are danger close to the maximum capacity of the trailer, if not exceeding. I say you are exceeding. You are exceeding the recommended maximum towing capacity of your tow rig.
The vehicle you are towing with has marginal brakes for itself, let alone towing 3500 # loaded trailer. The trailer likely doesn’t have brakes, and it’s even less likely that the Suzuki has a brake controller.

When towing wheelbase, brakes, and power are all your friends, you have none.
If your tow Suzuki had 300 hp, it still wouldn’t be safe. I would like to see you tow through WV and live, that would be worth following you around with a camera to document the carnage.

If I only had a Suzuki to tow with, I wouldn’t tow.
I hope this is a joke.

You would have to drop it into low range to tow some places around here on the road. Not even going to mention that your driveline is getting cooked.

:eek: wow fawkin glad you live on the other coast. That's some scary shit there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
oh and then how do you explane my 1/2 ton ford thats rated for 25,000 and pulls a 36ft 5th wheel hauling heavy equpt..how ill tell you i rated it that way and you can rate any veh.different than what the manfacture rates themand its all perfectly legal [/WTF I guess a should of not sold my 1/2 ton and bought a 3/4 4x4 diesel It only rated at 14900 with a trailer package please post pics of your half ton love to see it. :confused:

Originally posted by fognozzle
"as an unregulated veh.(non com.) the same rules do not apply.I could use it to haul a dump truck if i wanted and there is nothing that ANY STATE would do or say.and if it were regulated all you have to do is tag it at the weight you plan on hauling"


Completely ....false!!!!!!

Anytime you tow over the vehicles stated capacity, you can be ticketed. If you are involved in an accident you can be cited, no matter who's fault it is. Also your insurance company can deny your claim.

I have a GMC with a 383 stroker, airbags in the rear, 14 bolt 3/4 ton lsd rear end, ceramic brakes pads and vented rotors in the front to tow my boat, just for safety.


The capacity of the tow rig to get the load going is the least important factor in towing capacity. The ability to transfer the load to the rear axle and keep it controlled is more important than horsepower. The most important factor is the braking capacity. Sammies have some of the smallest brakes out there with very little surface area to cool after they heat up. The rear drum is 8.66 x 1.34 in. The pads are less than 1.5 inches wide!!

You have taken a stock looking sammie and added the weight of a trailer and a built Sammie to it. By the looks of it you have at least 500 pounds added to the trail rig. Your trailer must be at least 350 pounds. A stock Sammie weighs 2094 lbs. If my figures are close, you are towing at least 3000 lbs, or 1.5 times the weight of your tow rig. The Gross Vehicle Wt. Rating is 2923 lb. That leaves you 829 lbs of weight to carry. Most trailers have 15% of the weight on the hitch or 450 lbs for your scenario. GVWs are dry weights, you have to add the weight of the gas, passengers and tools etc. You have 379 lbs left for that.

Do you know what the tongue weight limit is for any Sammie? 100 lbs. Your tow limit is 1000 lbs. You are towing more than 3 times the rated towing capacity!! Your tongue weight is 4.5 times over the limit. To put it into perspective, my tow rating is 10,000 lbs. If I was overtowing as much as you, in my GMC, I would have 10 of your trail Sammies behind me!!

You have every right to tow what you want, but let us know where you are towing, so we can get off the road and out of your way!!

DUDE YOU HAVE WAAAAYY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS.

well i got news for you my trailer is rated at 4500 lbs and just to piss people off i think ill go tag the zuk at 5000 just for sh*ts and giggles

it is very simple.when a person tags a vehicle it is taged at what the manufacter sets the GVW at.anyonecan change the it cost more than a regular tag but you can tag it at what ever weight you want.

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
it is very simple.when a person tags a vehicle it is taged at what the manufacter sets the GVW at.anyonecan change the it cost more than a regular tag but you can tag it at what ever weight you want.

Hrm, that's not how it works here... And if that is so, then why don't you just tag all of yours for 100k so that you don't ever have to worry about it?

Also, what the hell would be the point of a gvwr then? The ENTIRE point of them is to that the owner, and everyone else, knows the safe-limits of the vehicles...

That's like saying it's okay to take Grade 5 bolts, write "Grade 8" on them, and sell them in a hardware store...

well now your talking in a language some people might under stand depending on the application of the bolt a grade 5 would be stronger than a grade 8.and i imagine you going to fight me on that too

No, I was using an example of how misrepresenting something to be of different characteristics or capabilities than it truly is, is not only dumb, but also in many cases illegal - and again, also dangerous to others...

A 1/2 ton rated at 25,000lb!

HA HA HA HA






























HA







HA



ha! WTF are you smoking? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by whitefish

As said, since you're apparently the master of getting a 1/2-ton tagged for a 1-tons capacity, do englighten us on the process....


Well how my dad did it was he went down to the DMV and said I'd like to get a weighted tag for my truck. They asked him for how much weight he wanted to carry and he told them. he then turned in his old tag and paid the money for the weighted tag. After that he walked outside and put the new weighted tag on the 1/2 ton pick-up. And yes the DMV knew it was a 1/2 ton truck.

you will only see this kind of crazy shit in Oklahoma
Your Crazy
Way to go:flipoff2:

mistake, double post.

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
well i got news for you my trailer is rated at 4500 lbs and just to piss people off i think ill go tag the zuk at 5000 just for sh*ts and giggles

And to think I was going to call BS on the blue sammy weighing twice the white one (or around 4k) being as I thought the GVWR on that trailer would be about 2, maybe 3k...but then you probably rated it like you did you white sammy and your 1/2-ton 25k towing pick up? Yeah...I buy all this. You want to buy a bridge?

I use a 3/4 ton 4x4 crew cab with trailer brakes (weighs about 6500 lbs) to tow my properly rated 7k GWVR two axel flat bed trailer and then I'm damn careful and feel a little bad about putting 6k in hay on the 2k trailer for an 8k load. I need to be schooled in OK then I could tow the whole damn 100k hay stack home in one shot with my ATV using a garden cart.

If (maybe when) you kill someone with this get up, somehow I doubt you'll really be able to convince yourself this is a safe thing to do. If you can you need serious help. I'm serious with my concern. This is not safe, you've been plain lucky, if you don't care about your own safety, just think about killing someone elses kid becuase of your mistake.

well igot news for you your trailer has 2 1k axles mine has a 5k axle.

DEnd knows how its done.and anyone with a class a CDL will know too you pay more for a weighted tag but it can be taged at any weight you set

I have a 1 ton GMC that I tow my trailer and Jeep with. There have been 2 instances (beyond my control) where other drivers caused me to brake extremely hard and swerve. The second one I was sure there was going to be a horrible accident but I managed to miss the guy by inches. Had I been towing with a smaller vehicle both would have resulted in serious injuries for all involved.
I'm sure your setup is "getting the job done", but you have no safety margin and the day will come when circumstances beyond your control will require you to take evasive action. When that day comes I hope you don't kill anyone.

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
DEnd knows how its done.and anyone with a class a CDL will know too you pay more for a weighted tag but it can be taged at any weight you set
I would still like to know why, then, do you just not tag them all for 100k so you never have to worry about it again?

Sorry I can't get this to post......

http://johnandloripowers.com/LittleCar/LittleCar.html

If what you say is correct, all this guy had to do was to get his tag changed to say he has a 3,000 lb capacity and it's legal, right?

Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!

I work for a fire department and I'm the guy that has to cut people out of cars because of stupid people like you!! Forget the damn ego!! Tow it with something that is MADE to tow it, not something "rated" to tow it!!!

:eek:

My Suzuki weighs 2600# with me (170#) in it, spare tire, hi-lift, and that’s about it.
I figure I add another 300-500# before wheeling trips. 200# depends on if I have a passenger or not. I run 31 radials, stock axles, and built everything with an emphasis on being light, but strong.
So I figure on the trailer it weighs around 2800-2900#.
Your trailer doesn’t appear to be any heavier than the 5’x13’ single axle utility trailer I have with a wood deck. It weighs around #1500 and is rated for a gross of 3500#.
That GVW allows it to haul 2000# (assuming my numbers are correct, I never weighed the trailer).
You must run the super heavy duty axle, that is lighter weight trailer instead of some old normal trailer like I have. :rolleyes:

BTW, since you are spewing all this – I would like for you to take some pictures of the trailer tires and show the load rating (of course you could take a pic of any tire and post it), and also provide some specs on the trailer. The trailer weight, GVW of trailer, and tell me where you got this 4500# GVW single axle trailer.

Also, go back and read my thread about tow rigs.
You don’t have trailer brakes or controller (if so prove it)
You don’t have adequate brakes on the tow rig period, they are marginal with 31’s and the rig by itself.
You don’t have wheelbase, nor power – which both are your friend when towing.

As I stated before, I don’t doubt that you did it.
After reading some more of your “diarrhea of the mouth”, I don’t doubt that you are an idiot.
Sorry folks, call ‘em as I see ‘em and I’m throwing the BS flag on the 4500# single axle trailer in the picture.

I kept reading your "teachings", since you know a lot more than the rest of us.

I want to see a 5k rated single wheel axle.
I'm calling you out on this one.

You said your GVW of the trailer is 4500#, but you have a 5k rated axle. What gives?

I know it is quite possible to overload a trailer and get from point A to point B.

1. You don't have enough trailer for the load to be safe.
2. Your tow rig will not safely and reliably tow that load.
3. Your prove your stupidity and ignorance on the internet.
4. You zealously defend your stupidity and ignorance.

Edit: I don't know the laws, I really don't care much about them. Who cares what a vehicle is licensed to haul?

I am worried about wrecking my tow rig, trailer, and trailer rig because of personal safety, financial risks, and inconvenience of getting all three back to the house and repaired after the fact. It never even crosses my mind about what license I have on the vehicle and trailer.

Going back and looking at your trailer.
Your trailer has 5 lug wheels, appears to have passenger car tires. The frame is pathetically small, definitely not rated for 5k.

After me calling you out, I fully expect you to post something to the effect of “Aww shucks guys. I really didn’t tow with that. I just took those pics to post on the board to get a reaction from you guys. Do you think I would really be that stoopid?”

Let us know the next road trip you take, and what routes and times you plan to travel. We’ll be sure to avoid those. Don’t want to get caught in the traffic back up from the accident. Well, I guess it wouldn’t be an accident, it would be a “stupident”.

I agree with the last 3posts.

Stupid. Good luck telling the courts it was okay to tow after you kill a car full of people because your a dumb ass

Originally posted by whitefish

I would still like to know why, then, do you just not tag them all for 100k so you never have to worry about it again?

because its a waste of money. maximum weight here for a standard non-commercial vehicle is 4,000 lbs anything over that and you pay extra for your tag. My truck is a 3/4 ton CTD by itself it weighs over 4,000 lbs we pay extra to register it. Big Rigs trailers weight way more than the tractor so the wieght difference is not a major concern. As long as his trailer has brakes, and is properly loaded he's ok.

SilverZuk here is one rated at 5200 lbs:
http://shop.easternmarine.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=12&CATID=25&ObjectGroup_ID=257

If you truly do have a 5K trailer axle, you don't have tires to carry that much weight. The biggest load a trailer tire can handle is 2500 lbs. That would include the trailer weight as well. But guess what? You can't have those tires, because they require a six lug 16" wheel. You have a 15" 5 lug wheel.

ST205/75R15 1480@35psi is the biggest capacity tire made for a 15", 5 lug trailer wheel. As stated earlier, it looks like you have car tires, which can not handle the heat and sidewall stress of a trailer nearly as well as trailer tire.

So I'm calling B.S. again!

Originally posted by DEnd
SilverZuk here is one rated at 5200 lbs:
http://shop.easternmarine.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=12&CATID=25&ObjectGroup_ID=257

I seriously doubt that he has that big of an axle under the scrawny trailer. I suspected that there were single axle trailers rated for that amount, I want to see one to compare to dimensions.

Originally posted by DEnd

As long as his trailer has brakes, and is properly loaded he's ok.


Assuming his trailer had brakes, and it was not overloaded.
He is not OK.
The "tow rig" is not capable of towing that weight safely for all the reasons I listed before. I also seriously doubt that he has brakes, or a brake controller in the "tow rig".

Yes there are axles rated for 5,000 lbs. My boat trailer has two of them, but they are 6 lug wheels with the proper tires. My trailer is over rated for my boat. The boat is under 7k, the trailer weighs maybe 1200 lbs, with 10k of rated rubber.

Oh, yeah, I also have BRAKES on each axle!!

I don't think we will get him to admit that the set up he has is unsafe and that's too bad. If it helps a few others look at their setups and make them safer, then that is good enough. It pisses me off when someone is hurt or killed because someone else was stupid!!

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
well now your talking in a language some people might under stand depending on the application of the bolt a grade 5 would be stronger than a grade 8.and i imagine you going to fight me on that too

Stronger is a generic word, did you learn it in your engineering classes or your metallurgy classes.
I think you are scary in bolt terminology and in towing. I can tow 5000# with my F150 but I want to know that if I must stop that it will and that the bearings won't burn up because it's over rated.
Wait till someone dies then rethink it :rolleyes:

Some of you may be unaware that a large number of rigs are out there towing/ hauling over weight. Find me a pickup that is rated to haul a 6k slide in camper or tow a 16k fifth wheel. The newest Dodge is rated to just over 16k towing capacity. I see pickups towing 30ft goosenecks with three full size trucks on them that are way over capacity. We had a 36 ft fifth wheel with 4 slideouts. That thing was a tank. There is not a pickup on the road that was rated to tow it.

Originally posted by fognozzle
If you truly do have a 5K trailer axle, you don't have tires to carry that much weight. The biggest load a trailer tire can handle is 2500 lbs. That would include the trailer weight as well. But guess what? You can't have those tires, because they require a six lug 16" wheel. You have a 15" 5 lug wheel.

ST205/75R15 1480@35psi is the biggest capacity tire made for a 15", 5 lug trailer wheel. As stated earlier, it looks like you have car tires, which can not handle the heat and sidewall stress of a trailer nearly as well as trailer tire.

So I'm calling B.S. again!

Commonly available 225/75R15 load range D trailer tires are rated at 2500 lbs. Also last I checked you could still buy 16" 5 lug wheels, as well as special order trailer hubs in different bolt patterns.

Pete

Yes, those are the tires on my trailer. However, they are only rated 2500 lb if used on the 6 bolt rim. I believe that the 6 bolt has a larger wheel opening for a bigger bearing.

Originally posted by SilverZuk
1. You don't have enough trailer for the load to be safe.
2. Your tow rig will not safely and reliably tow that load.
3. Your prove your stupidity and ignorance on the internet.
4. You zealously defend your stupidity and ignorance.


1. why do you say that. Judging from how little the rear suspension is sagged it looks like he has the correct tounge weight. I don't know that for sure but it looks like it to me. he already stated the trailer was rated for the load.

2. what point of saftey are you refering to? wheelbase is about the only point you might have, and if the trailer is loaded correctly is not that much of a concern, especially when you consider how short his trailer is.

3. maybe he's proved it on another thread but not on this one.

4. what does that have to do with anything?

Like I said as long as he has brakes on the trailer he is ok.

And if his tires are rated a 2,500 lbs then two of them would give the trailer (properly loaded) a maximum weight of 5,000 lbs.

Originally posted by fognozzle
The biggest load a trailer tire can handle is 2500 lbs. That would include the trailer weight as well. But guess what? You can't have those tires, because they require a six lug 16" wheel. You have a 15" 5 lug wheel.

ST205/75R15 1480@35psi is the biggest capacity tire made for a 15", 5 lug trailer wheel.

Originally posted by pcorssmit

225/75R15 load range D trailer tires are rated at 2500 lbs.

Originally posted by fognozzle
Yes, those are the tires on my trailer. However, they are only rated 2500 lb if used on the 6 bolt rim. I believe that the 6 bolt has a larger wheel opening for a bigger bearing.

????????



Judging from his pic, the bolt pattern on the trailer looks to be the same as on the Sami, 5 on 5 1/2". 6 lug is 6 on 5 1/2". So the max center hole diameter in the rim is the same.

Pete

Allright guys You all know if you had a 1/2 ton ford rated at 25000 pounds you would pull your trail rig with a samuria.:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

1. The tonque weight rating is 100lbs!! Lifted/aftermarket springs will help keep it from sagging, we all know that.

2. The Sammie is rated for towing 1000 lbs, max. He is at least three times over that!!

3. I'm willing to bet he does not have brakes. If he does, he is still way over the weight limit.

4. If he has 6 bolt rims, he might have 2500lb tires. He does not. The max rating for his tires is 1500 lbs if he is using proper trailer tires.

5. I will try to spell it out....

He has an overloaded tow rig.
He has an overloaded tongue weight.
He has undersized and overloaded trailer tires.
He has an overloaded and undersized trailer.
He has inadequate brakes, even if he has trailer brakes.

It is unsafe.
It is scary.
It is stupid.

As for his zealous defense of his ignorance and stupidity....

he is no longer ignorant, he has been informed in no uncertain terms that he is way way over the listed and legal limits of his tow rig. He chooses to defend his setup, even though it can easily kill himself and others and is totally illegal.

If he can show me some written documentation that says Suzuki rates a 68 h.p. Sammie witth weak brakes to tow over 4,000 lbs, I will personally kiss his a$$.

I remember a post on another site a few months ago. A guy was towing his Sammie on a flatbed with a Subburban or full size truck. He got cut off doing 60 mph and had to swerve. The Sammie rolled like 3 times. What would happen if that was hooked to another Sammie?

better gas milage.and you know DEnd is the only other person here that is making sense. and if its pics of the trailer you want ill give you close ups come this weekend when i haul my axles with it .oh that will be behind the zuk too :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:oh and no the zuk isnt lifted,other than the 10" 4 wheel disk brakes its stock

Pete.

His rim is a 5 hole. Even if he put on the 225 tires, they will not be rated for 2500 because of the rim and hub. I just went and looked at my trailers. The 5 bolt has a smaller center hole and the bearing seems much bigger in the 6 bolt. So the tire rating is for the tire, wheel and bearing assembly.

Is this better? (The trailer does have brakes on two axles)

Originally posted by fognozzle
1. The tonque weight rating is 100lbs!! Lifted/aftermarket springs will help keep it from sagging, we all know that.

2. The Sammie is rated for towing 1000 lbs, max. He is at least three times over that!!

3. I'm willing to bet he does not have brakes. If he does, he is still way over the weight limit.

4. If he has 6 bolt rims, he might have 2500lb tires. He does not. The max rating for his tires is 1500 lbs if he is using proper trailer tires.

5. I will try to spell it out....


1. that is with the stock hitch, I don't know if he has an after market hitch or not.

2. agian with the stock hitch

3. you are just guessing

4. agian you are just guessing you do not know the DOT load rating of his tires unless you went and looked at them personally.

5. Now I will try to spell it out... (notice 3 dots in my elispe :flipoff2: )

You are basing all of your judgements on a picture posted on the internet, and its not even a good picture you do not know what weight his trailer is capable of hauling, you do not know what hitch he has, nor do you know the laws and regulations reguarding GVWR, or towing. Like I have said the only argument one might be able to make is wheelbase. Do you even know why you want a long wheelbase when towing with a tounge pull set-up?

it has a class 3-5 reciever mounted to the frame

Does the trailer have brakes?

yep

Originally posted by zukzilla4x4
well igot news for you your trailer has 2 1k axles mine has a 5k axle.

Try reading this part of my post again "....7k GWVR two axel...", for comprehension this time (the trailer EMPTY weighs 2k).

"I use a 3/4 ton 4x4 crew cab with trailer brakes (weighs about 6500 lbs) to tow my properly rated 7k GWVR two axel flat bed trailer and then I'm damn careful and feel a little bad about putting 6k in hay on the 2k trailer for an 8k load. I need to be schooled in OK then I could tow the whole damn 100k hay stack home in one shot with my ATV using a garden cart."

Obviously you know ziltch about trailers or you wouldn't have thought I was talking about axels rated at 1000 lbs (don't think you can buy those except for the 4x8 sheet of plywood fold up trailer...but you could haul what a good 10k on that right?

BTW you need to realize that what you have been doing is UNSAFE. Stop before you hurt someone (think about it, that someone could even be yourself).

Originally posted by Flipper
Is this better? (The trailer does have brakes on two axles)

Only a little. That Toy is rated for towing maybe 3.5 or 4k. That 3 axel trailer must weigh about 2.5k leaving about 1.5k for your load. Pretty short wheel base for that long/large of a trailer. That trailer has what a 12k plus GVWR? Would be fine on a low speed dirt road as pictured.

Originally posted by ToyFord


Only a little. That Toy is rated for towing maybe 3.5 or 4k. That 3 axel trailer must weigh about 2.5k leaving about 1.5k for your load. Pretty short wheel base for that long/large of a trailer. That trailer has what a 12k plus GVWR? Would be fine on a low speed dirt road as pictured.

The firetruck was picked up in the north east corner of Colorado and towed back to Tennessee....something like 1150 miles one way!:rolleyes:

I don't know what it weighs, but it is a big mofo

http://home.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/47/47154/pages/331667/barney2.jpg

actually we made the trip pulling it with my truck. Once we got home, my dad wanted to see if his toy would move it. So, he hooked to the trailer and drove it around his property.


Yes that is a crew cab SuperDuty

DEnd.....

A hitches rating is just that, a hitch rating. If the hitch is strong enough to be rated a classIII, or tow 5k, it doesn't matter what it is attached to, it is rated for 5k. If attached to a semi it should only be towing 5k max. Can a semi tow more, obviously it can, but the hitch can't handle it. On a Sammie it is reversed, the hitch can handle 5k, but not the truck. The size of the hitch can not increase the tow capacity.

fognozzle and toyford... Ok guys as entertaining as this is, it looks,and this may or may not be true, but like I said earlier you guys have way too much time on your hands. I have to agree with DEnd. Most of what you guys are disagreeing with is guesswork. And I also don't think he has proved to be stupid on this thread.

Originally posted by fognozzle
Pete.

His rim is a 5 hole. Even if he put on the 225 tires, they will not be rated for 2500 because of the rim and hub. I just went and looked at my trailers. The 5 bolt has a smaller center hole and the bearing seems much bigger in the 6 bolt. So the tire rating is for the tire, wheel and bearing assembly.

As long as they are the proper diameter and within the tire manufacturer's width specifications, the bolt pattern of his wheels has nothing to do with the tire rating. The axle and or bearing may be undersized, but the tire rating still remains. My trailer has (4) 245/75R16LT 10 plys on it, rated at 3000 each, and (2) 5200 lb axles. The trailer is rated at 10,000. Does that mean my tires are only rated at 2500 lbs each? No. Does it mean that my axles are only rated at 5000 lbs each? No.

How do you know his 5 lugs have the same bolt circle as yours? You do know that their are multiple 5 lug bolt patterns available, right? Just because his wheel has 5 lugs doesn't mean the center hole is smaller than yours. Ever try to put a stock spare wheel from a newer Chevy 1/2 ton on your 6 lug trailer? Guess what, the bolt pattern is the same, but it won't go on because the center hole is too small.

Pete

Unlike truck/car wheels, trailer wheels are fixed, standard sizes. A six hole , 15' rim will only fit on a larger axle. A five hole will only fit on the smaller axle. You also have an LT or truck tire. LT or truck tires are not rated for trailers. Look on a trailer tire, one marked ST, it says "for trailer use only". The reason is the stiffer, stronger sidewalls on a trailer tire. Once again trailer tires are standardized. He has a 5 hole wheel. Therefore he can not have a 5k axle.

The trailer tire sizes are moot. A sammie is rated to safely tow 1000 lbs from Suzuki. No matter what you do to a Sammie the Federal DOT tow rating is 1000lb. The tongue weight is 100 lb.

If anyone can show me documentation from Suzuki that it is otherwise, I will gladly admit that I am wrong.

He is overloaded. Period.

Dend,
I find it amusing that you are defending something that is as unsafe as what is pictured. Do you own a samurai?
I do, and know that the brakes (all new and functioning properly) are marginal with my samurai and 31’s empty. If you add another 5000#, it is way over the duty point of the stock brakes. As I stated earlier, I seriously doubt the trailer has brakes, and I would put money that the samurai doesn’t have a brake controller.
Also, the samurai gears, bearing, and general driveline is not suited to hauling a 5000# trailer.

Let’s say the trailer is not overloaded, and has brakes, the hitch is rated for the load (which I doubt). The tow rig is not even close to marginal to tow 4000-5000#.
80-inch wheelbase
68 horsepower
Brakes that are marginal on a stock rig with 31’s, will only lock up sometimes on asphalt when empty when all in good working order.
7.5-inch ring gear
Wheel bearing that are matched to the ring gear and d-line, and puke out quite frequently running 31’s.

Read my earlier posts, I’m calling him out to prove me wrong on the assumptions I and others have made by a single picture. All it would take is a quick trip outside to take pics of the tires, brakes, brake controller. The picture is amusing in a stupid way, like many others posted elsewhere.

I’m anxiously waiting to be proven wrong with proof. All I’ve heard on your side of the argument is “you don’t actually know”. No, we do not, that is why I have asked him for more proof.

I hope this thread will put some insight into towing, particularly with a Samurai. Prove me wrong and I just my sell my old Dodge and buy another samurai for a tow rig :rolleyes:

Please read this thread.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127181

I'm going back to read it again, with this thread in mind.

I've been searching the net, and cannot find anyone who sells a single axle trailer with a 5000# rating.

Help me out, I'm trying to prove myself wrong on your behalf.

I'd be interested in knowing what the tires are rated at too?

This is just plain WRONG!!!! :mad:

Originally posted by fognozzle
DEnd.....

A hitches rating is just that, a hitch rating. If the hitch is strong enough to be rated a classIII, or tow 5k, it doesn't matter what it is attached to, it is rated for 5k. If attached to a semi it should only be towing 5k max. Can a semi tow more, obviously it can, but the hitch can't handle it. On a Sammie it is reversed, the hitch can handle 5k, but not the truck. The size of the hitch can not increase the tow capacity.

See but here is the kicker... If it is indeed a class V hitch or even a class III hitch that means it was manufactured, and with the hitch on the vehicle the vehicle is capable of pulling the amount of weight allowed by the hitch class design. When a hitch manufacturer rates a hitch the rating is for the vehicle hitch combo not just the hitch, otherwise they are open to lawsuits which would quickly put that company out of business.

Whitefish, you are in FL I'm in NC, thats part of the difference, I could have the weight low as well.

*edit* I was correct, here are the vehicle licensing fees for NC:
Private passenger vehicles $20.00
U-Drive-It $41.00
Trucks 4,000 lbs.* $21.50
Trucks 5,000 lbs.* $34.50
Trucks 6,000 lbs.* $40.75

*Not classified for commercial licensing
*Issued the First in Flight plate
*May not legally park in loading zones

Originally posted by SilverZuk
I've been searching the net, and cannot find anyone who sells a single axle trailer with a 5000# rating.

Help me out, I'm trying to prove myself wrong on your behalf.

you can purchase a plan here:

http://www.etrailerpart.com/MyWebs/myweb/catalog/1112_1322985.htm

Originally posted by SilverZuk
I've been searching the net, and cannot find anyone who sells a single axle trailer with a 5000# rating.

Help me out, I'm trying to prove myself wrong on your behalf.

Not 5 lug, but 6000 lb, 6 1/2' x 12' single axle trailer. Found this in ~3 min.

http://www.bigtextrailers.com/spec/60tp.html

Pete

Originally posted by pcorssmit


Not 5 lug, but 6000 lb, 6 1/2' x 12' single axle trailer. Found this in ~3 min.

http://www.bigtextrailers.com/spec/60tp.html

Pete

I saw those, but it doesn't look anything like the one attached to the zuk. You can see an obvious difference between the two.

Just by how well the zuk seems to sit on that trailer I'd bet it was custom made. even if he built it himself it still probably had to be inspected first before it was issued a VIN.

It is mainly used to haul my big zuk on.Thats why the blue one is centered on the trailer zukzilla has a 95" wheel base,and out weighs a stocker by 1k.As far as the 5 lug wheels those are 5 on 5.5 which has the same center hole as a 6 on 5.5 you guys with zuks should know that.As far as trailer vin and tags we dont have them here unless it is comm. use.Your trying to base things on laws that you are familiar with that do not apply here.

:confused: when I was in OK I looked at trailers at a lot there that had VIN's on them. I think they were manufactured out of state though.

Some have them but not required.

Originally posted by zuklover
fognozzle and toyford... Ok guys as entertaining as this is, it looks,and this may or may not be true, but like I said earlier you guys have way too much time on your hands. I have to agree with DEnd. Most of what you guys are disagreeing with is guesswork. And I also don't think he has proved to be stupid on this thread.
Just wondering, do you have any basis to make an informed judgment/opinion on this topic? I do. I have 2, 3/4 ton tow rigs, 1, 1/2 ton rig I tow light loads with and 2 Toy trucks that I tow a tent trailer with, and three trailers varying from 12k to 2k GVWR and have for nearly a decade. If you have different experience to back your opinion, fine, I can respect that. If not, keep it to yourself. BTW don't think I said anyone is stupid, although some less than intelligent behavior may have been engaged in towing with the set up pictured.

Originally posted by DEnd


See but here is the kicker... If it is indeed a class V hitch or even a class III hitch that means it was manufactured, and with the hitch on the vehicle the vehicle is capable of pulling the amount of weight allowed by the hitch class design. When a hitch manufacturer rates a hitch the rating is for the vehicle hitch combo not just the hitch, otherwise they are open to lawsuits which would quickly put that company out of business.



I disagree. We sell class 5 hitches that are rated up to 15k for a 1980 F250. I don't know what those were rated to tow, but I bet it wasn't 15k. I can bolt a 30k pintle hook on to the hitch plate of my Montero. What about gooseneck hitches? Almost all of them are rated at 30k and there isn't a pickup on this planet that has a manufacturers rating that high.

TOW RIG!

Originally posted by Motornoggin


I disagree. We sell class 5 hitches that are rated up to 15k for a 1980 F250. I don't know what those were rated to tow, but I bet it wasn't 15k. I can bolt a 30k pintle hook on to the hitch plate of my Montero. What about gooseneck hitches? Almost all of them are rated at 30k and there isn't a pickup on this planet that has a manufacturers rating that high.

ummm... that's the entire reason aftermarket hitches are made for trucks. Our CTD, as we bought it, is only rated at 5,000 lbs. the truck itself weights more than that. When a hitch company design's a hitch for a perticular truck and then puts a rating on the hitch it is for what the hitch and truck is rated for. When they put that rating on a hitch that is what the hitch manufacturer is taking liability for, meaning you install a 15k hitch designed for a 1980 F250 on a 1980 F250, and your trailer GVRW is 15K or below and that amount of weight, provided you vehicle is properly functioning, destroys or damages your vehicle then the hitch manufacturer is liable for that damage. That is how litigation works in this country. A hitch manufacturer is not going to offer a hitch for a vehicle if it cannot tow the load the hitch was designed for.

And to all of the Sami owners on here who say a sami can't tow over 1,000 lbs ever: I hope you have never given a strap to someone because that involves towing someone whom is over you weight limit, and the forces your sami encounters doing that is greater than almost any force that it will see towing on the street.

I'll remember this next time I see you broken down on the trail Originally posted by DEnd
And to all of the Sami owners on here who say a sami can't tow over 1,000 lbs ever: I hope you have never given a strap to someone because that involves towing someone whom is over you weight limit, and the forces your sami encounters doing that is greater than almost any force that it will see towing on the street. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by ImWhatTheyCallStupid
I'll remember this next time I see you broken down on the trail

You'll never see me broken down on the trail. Mainly cause I break on the street going to the trail. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by DEnd



And to all of the Sami owners on here who say a sami can't tow over 1,000 lbs ever: I hope you have never given a strap to someone because that involves towing someone whom is over you weight limit, and the forces your sami encounters doing that is greater than almost any force that it will see towing on the street.


The thing that most people forget when talking about towing is that towing is less about pulling as it is about STOPPING. Just because a Yugo in 1st gear can pull a 5000 lb truck on a trailer doesn't mean it can stop it.

My XJ pulled my Zuk on a flat bed trailer just fine with the OD off at 55 mph the whole way home from Concord to Lexington (about 50 miles), but I wouldn't have wanted to try to stop it in an emergency. I drove VERY cautiously in the right hand lane the whole way. I have also flat towed a Scrambler on 36's behind my Wrangler when I was running 33';s and it was the scariest 30 mile trip I've ever done. It nearly pushed me through an intersection where there was a red light at the bottom of a long hill.

Originally posted by ManglerYJ



The thing that most people forget when talking about towing is that towing is less about pulling as it is about STOPPING. Just because a Yugo in 1st gear can pull a 5000 lb truck on a trailer doesn't mean it can stop it.


Much over 1000lbs and your vehicle should not have to stop the trailer, the trailer should be capable of stopping itself. That number of course can change based on the tow vehicle's weight, and I do believe there is a weight where the trailer has to be equipped with brakes, and a means to activate them. but I don't know that for sure and don't really feel like researching that.

As a matter of fact I do have some experience. I don't actually tow them myself. I wouldn't want to. But yes I do have enough experience to make a somewhat informed opinion. And that's all it is. An opinion. All I was saying is that you guys seem to be being pretty hard on zukzilla4x4.The operative words in this post being...opinion..and seem to be.:rolleyes:

This thread reminds me of a Chris Rock standup line...

"You can drive a car with your feet if you want to! But that don't make it a good fuckin idea!!!"

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by SilverZuk
Read my earlier posts, I’m calling him out to prove me wrong on the assumptions I and others have made by a single picture. All it would take is a quick trip outside to take pics of the tires, brakes, brake controller. The picture is amusing in a stupid way, like many others posted elsewhere.

I’m anxiously waiting to be proven wrong with proof. All I’ve heard on your side of the argument is “you don’t actually know”. No, we do not, that is why I have asked him for more proof.

I hope this thread will put some insight into towing, particularly with a Samurai. Prove me wrong and I just my sell my old Dodge and buy another samurai for a tow rig :rolleyes:

Pics or proof that I requested?
I can’t believe this thread is still alive. Valid points have been made on the “It’s stoopid” side and I have not seen anything for the “it’s fine and dandy side”
You’ve heard my points, and Dend addressed a few but none were resolved.
Assume the trailer and hitch are adequate (which I doubt), the Suzuki is not.
I agree with Damo.

Originally posted by DEnd


You'll never see me broken down on the trail. Mainly cause I break on the street going to the trail. :flipoff2:

ROTFLMBO!!

I wouldnt want to tow that, when we had a tracker for a work beater I had u-haul put a hitch on it so I could drive up to a friends shop in wisconsin to pickup a custom log splitter, I cant count the number of times it got hairy on the way home on 2 hands!! and it was a puney 1500# splitter WITH BRAKES

I think you guys have all missed that there is no legal requirement not to overload your vehicle as per the manufacturer's specifications.

If you overload your license plates, you can be cited for that, but non commercial vehicles don't have to weigh in, so it really can never be verified.

Some states have laws reguarding trailer brakes. In Wisconsin you cannot tow a trailer reguardless of size unless it has brakes. Here in IL, I believe that it's 2,000 lb trailers and larger.

I still think this is a bad idea, but it's NOT illegal to tow too big of a trailer for your tow rig according to any law I've seen.

DOT does not set tow ratings for any given vehicle, nor do they enforce laws reguarding the vehicle code.

Manufacturers set tow ratings....the most accurate way to check if you're within limits is to subtract the actual weight of your vehicle from the GCWR. That is your tow rating.

For tongue weight, as long as you can add the tounge weight to your vehicle's weight and not exceed the GVWR of your vehicle, you're usually ok, as long as neither axle's GAWR is exceeded.